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Syrian Air Defence Force
Tsavo Lion- Posts : 5762
Points : 5730
Join date : 2016-08-15
Location : AZ, USA
lancelot- Posts : 2055
Points : 2053
Join date : 2020-10-18
crod wrote:I’m very interested in seeing the performance of it. Essentially going up against one the most potent and modern AFs in the world. If it has the beans, israel will be forced to abandon its go it alone rhetoric...and its strategy. Others too for that matter.
Was this system built with Russian input and assistance?
Someone had to help them. Either the Russians or the Chinese.
Here is a photo of Bavar-373.
crod- Posts : 663
Points : 702
Join date : 2009-08-04
A far cry from what looked like welded together oil drums from a few years back.
If the Russians were involved - israel might be in real trouble here.
Wonder how many of the systems they have managed to get into Syria vs how many have been destroyed by israel before operational.
Assuming the Syrian operators will have been training in Iran so there will be a degree of operational competency - the Iranians will enjoy some live experience too, essential for them.
Hope they can get a shed load of them in there.
If the Russians were involved - israel might be in real trouble here.
Wonder how many of the systems they have managed to get into Syria vs how many have been destroyed by israel before operational.
Assuming the Syrian operators will have been training in Iran so there will be a degree of operational competency - the Iranians will enjoy some live experience too, essential for them.
Hope they can get a shed load of them in there.
lancelot- Posts : 2055
Points : 2053
Join date : 2020-10-18
I would not say it is a clone of S-300 because it seems to be hot-launched like Patriot instead of cold launched like S-300.
At the same time it seems they launch the missiles vertically. So it does not seem to have the issue Patriot has where it has limited coverage arc because you need to point the missile launcher in a certain direction.
At the same time it seems they launch the missiles vertically. So it does not seem to have the issue Patriot has where it has limited coverage arc because you need to point the missile launcher in a certain direction.
crod likes this post
Isos
Isos- Posts : 11001
Points : 10981
Join date : 2015-11-06
- Post n°105
Assume this is their S-300 knock off. Wonder if it interfaces with the Russian/Syrian IADS?
Isos Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:01 am
JohninMK wrote:Assume this is their S-300 knock off. Wonder if it interfaces with the Russian/Syrian IADS?
spriters
@spriters11
3h
Israeli media: Syria will replace the Russian S-200 system with the Iranian Bavar-373 air defense system.
Over the past 16 months, Israel has made every effort to prevent the transfer of this Iranian system to Syria. It didn't work out.
[im.twimg.com/media/Ez1FU1eXEAESTnb?format=jpg&name=medium[/img]
This guy is a pathologic liar. 99% of its tweets are bullshit.
Iran doesn't have this system for its own need let alone giving it to Syria.
You should double-check its "news" and see if other more serious people share them before posting them here.
mavaff likes this post
GarryB- Posts : 37261
Points : 37775
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
In which case Iran could be the one who has more to lose. But either way there is no substitute for combat experience.
Using these missiles in Syria will be interesting because Russia wont have control so when Israel goes to attack Iranian forces in Syria again the Syrians can shoot back.
This is a win win for Iran because the worst thing that could happen would be their missile batteries are attacked and destroyed, but what ever method they use to do that will likely be seen by Russia at the very least and more likely also by Iran so they can use that to improve the system and their tactics so the next attack wont work... it is going to make Iranian systems better, and the chance of shooting down some Israeli planes trying to help ISIS terrorists fighting Syria and Iran is just a bonus.
Was this system built with Russian input and assistance?
At the very least it will be based on Russian systems they have bought in the past.
For all we know it might be a licence production, or it could be something the Iranians came up with after looking at Russian and Chinese systems.
A far cry from what looked like welded together oil drums from a few years back.
To be fair the S-300 and S-400 launch tubes look a bit like oil drums welded together...
If the Russians were involved - israel might be in real trouble here.
Whether they are or are not I think Israel might have overstepped in its self defence...
I would not say it is a clone of S-300 because it seems to be hot-launched like Patriot instead of cold launched like S-300.
The missile itself looks like an S-300. A hot launch is pretty normal... cold launches are not so easy to develop... the Soviets and Russians were good at that, but it is not widely done by others...
At the same time it seems they launch the missiles vertically. So it does not seem to have the issue Patriot has where it has limited coverage arc because you need to point the missile launcher in a certain direction.
When developing a new system it is important to fix the bugs that made existing systems not so good... especially when it is so simple to fix...
nomadski- Posts : 2393
Points : 2401
Join date : 2017-01-02
It makes sense to deliver these SAM Bavar AD to Syria. It makes even more sense to use them wisely, against massed aircraft formations. I doubt that there are bugs in the system. I have seen test footage against planes and they worked well.
If it is true that Iran now sending extra armaments such as offensive drones and Rockets. Then it makes sense to demarcate Iranian forces from Russian forces. So that attacks against one, do not involve the other. Iranians area of operations, could be in the south, along Golan. With some ground troops also, in defensive role.
I hope that Iranian army now, gives accurate reports regarding the war effort against Usrael. With accurate report on casualties. We can establish from all the news reports, that a vessel carrying Iranian oil was on fire. If vessel was attacked, it should be reported accurately. If personnel were killed, it should be told. Who they were and what nationality. These attacks will not stop quickly. It is necessary for army to be seen to give the appropriate response to every attack. This is more important than the retaliation itself.
What do posters think on demarcation of forces in Syria? Area of operations for Iran. Including stationing of AD or BM. In published manner.
If it is true that Iran now sending extra armaments such as offensive drones and Rockets. Then it makes sense to demarcate Iranian forces from Russian forces. So that attacks against one, do not involve the other. Iranians area of operations, could be in the south, along Golan. With some ground troops also, in defensive role.
I hope that Iranian army now, gives accurate reports regarding the war effort against Usrael. With accurate report on casualties. We can establish from all the news reports, that a vessel carrying Iranian oil was on fire. If vessel was attacked, it should be reported accurately. If personnel were killed, it should be told. Who they were and what nationality. These attacks will not stop quickly. It is necessary for army to be seen to give the appropriate response to every attack. This is more important than the retaliation itself.
What do posters think on demarcation of forces in Syria? Area of operations for Iran. Including stationing of AD or BM. In published manner.
crod- Posts : 663
Points : 702
Join date : 2009-08-04
Have they produced many units does anyone have any clear idea?
magnumcromagnon- Posts : 8142
Points : 8281
Join date : 2013-12-05
Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan
Isos wrote:JohninMK wrote:Assume this is their S-300 knock off. Wonder if it interfaces with the Russian/Syrian IADS?
spriters
@spriters11
3h
Israeli media: Syria will replace the Russian S-200 system with the Iranian Bavar-373 air defense system.
Over the past 16 months, Israel has made every effort to prevent the transfer of this Iranian system to Syria. It didn't work out.
[im.twimg.com/media/Ez1FU1eXEAESTnb?format=jpg&name=medium[/img]
This guy is a pathologic liar. 99% of its tweets are bullshit.
Iran doesn't have this system for its own need let alone giving it to Syria.
You should double-check its "news" and see if other more serious people share them before posting them here.
He's no worse than the jackass Rob Lee, who you cite all the time.
Isos- Posts : 11001
Points : 10981
Join date : 2015-11-06
Not really.
Rob Lee verifies its news and quotes russian media most of the time. When he is wrong he deletes and says it was a wrong news. You can't disagree with him since most of its tweets are only translation of russian articles without expressing its own opinion. When he expresses its opinion it's clear compared to the other tweets that I quote him for.
This guy spreeds bullshit faster than he breaths. Just look at its account and you will see he post every hours total fake news.
Rob Lee verifies its news and quotes russian media most of the time. When he is wrong he deletes and says it was a wrong news. You can't disagree with him since most of its tweets are only translation of russian articles without expressing its own opinion. When he expresses its opinion it's clear compared to the other tweets that I quote him for.
This guy spreeds bullshit faster than he breaths. Just look at its account and you will see he post every hours total fake news.
nero- Posts : 217
Points : 217
Join date : 2019-03-26
magnumcromagnon wrote:He's no worse than the jackass Rob Lee, who you cite all the time.
He is. I do not think he even realizes that he's lying as he's a flat out lunatic.
I've followed his previous 2 or 3 twitter accounts, even when there was information to be shared he was wrong 90% of the time.
JohninMK- Posts : 13355
Points : 13488
Join date : 2015-06-16
Location : England
Isos wrote:
This guy is a pathologic liar. 99% of its tweets are bullshit.
@spriters11
Account suspended
Twitter suspends accounts which violate the Twitter Rules
nero- Posts : 217
Points : 217
Join date : 2019-03-26
JohninMK wrote:@spriters11
Account suspended
Twitter suspends accounts which violate the Twitter Rules
It's his 4 or 5th account now.
He'll keep getting banned because he actually does violate the Twitter Terms of Service.
George1- Posts : 18071
Points : 18574
Join date : 2011-12-22
Location : Greece
"This technique is very reliable": In Syria, announced the effectiveness of the Soviet air defense system S-75 "Dvina"
31 May 2021
64
"This technique is very reliable": In Syria, announced the effectiveness of the Soviet air defense system S-75 "Dvina"
The Soviet S-75 Dvina anti-aircraft missile system is still an effective means of fighting aircraft. This was announced by the Syrian Defense Ministry following the training of the country's air defense forces.
According to senior lieutenant Mohammed Shakhshir, who is part of the S-75 air defense missile system, during the exercises, the Soviet complex successfully hit a drone. It took 10 minutes from the moment the target was detected to the missile launch, the launch itself and the defeat took "no more than 30 seconds." The defeat of the UAV by the S-75 "Dvina" air defense missile system was confirmed by third-party surveillance and control equipment.
The effectiveness of the Soviet complex, developed in the 50s of the last century, was confirmed by a high-ranking officer of the Syrian Armed Forces. According to him, if the technical condition of the complex is well monitored, then it will work "well". The general stressed that the complex is very reliable and has been used more than once to defeat aircraft, including drones launched by militants.
(...) Maintenance of the complex is not difficult. The Syrian army has extensive experience and skills in working with these systems. This technique is very reliable and it all depends on how the soldier works with it.
- added the general.
As noted in the Syrian military department, along with the S-75 Dvina air defense system, the Buk-M2E air defense missile system and the ZU-23 artillery anti-aircraft guns participated in the air defense training.
https://en.topwar.ru/183541-jeta-tehnika-ochen-nadezhna-v-sirii-zajavili-ob-jeffektivnosti-sovetskogo-zrk-s-75-dvina.html
31 May 2021
64
"This technique is very reliable": In Syria, announced the effectiveness of the Soviet air defense system S-75 "Dvina"
The Soviet S-75 Dvina anti-aircraft missile system is still an effective means of fighting aircraft. This was announced by the Syrian Defense Ministry following the training of the country's air defense forces.
According to senior lieutenant Mohammed Shakhshir, who is part of the S-75 air defense missile system, during the exercises, the Soviet complex successfully hit a drone. It took 10 minutes from the moment the target was detected to the missile launch, the launch itself and the defeat took "no more than 30 seconds." The defeat of the UAV by the S-75 "Dvina" air defense missile system was confirmed by third-party surveillance and control equipment.
The effectiveness of the Soviet complex, developed in the 50s of the last century, was confirmed by a high-ranking officer of the Syrian Armed Forces. According to him, if the technical condition of the complex is well monitored, then it will work "well". The general stressed that the complex is very reliable and has been used more than once to defeat aircraft, including drones launched by militants.
(...) Maintenance of the complex is not difficult. The Syrian army has extensive experience and skills in working with these systems. This technique is very reliable and it all depends on how the soldier works with it.
- added the general.
As noted in the Syrian military department, along with the S-75 Dvina air defense system, the Buk-M2E air defense missile system and the ZU-23 artillery anti-aircraft guns participated in the air defense training.
https://en.topwar.ru/183541-jeta-tehnika-ochen-nadezhna-v-sirii-zajavili-ob-jeffektivnosti-sovetskogo-zrk-s-75-dvina.html
medo- Posts : 4337
Points : 4417
Join date : 2010-10-24
Location : Slovenia
GarryB- Posts : 37261
Points : 37775
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
I doubt that there are bugs in the system. I have seen test footage against planes and they worked well.
It is not a question of bugs as such... they need to work in such a way that they are effective against Israeli weapons and aircraft... working in tests is easy.
The Patriot system worked in tests, but in combat it was found the time keeping systems were not accurate enough so when a target presented itself it could not engage.
You know in those crap movies where some guy says lets synchronise watches... the purpose of that is so that if they have to coordinate things to do something that needs to be done at specific times or in a specific order if their time is not coordinated then things will be done in the wrong order and it wont work.
That is what happened to Patriot batteries in Desert Storm too to further make them less effective... would never have come up in a test because the tests were not week long or longer tests.
If it is true that Iran now sending extra armaments such as offensive drones and Rockets. Then it makes sense to demarcate Iranian forces from Russian forces. So that attacks against one, do not involve the other. Iranians area of operations, could be in the south, along Golan.
I suspect that has already been the case... but I would also expect that Iranian and Syrian troops might have taken advantage of that and pretended to be Russian to avoid being attacked... the same way Israeli F-16s hid behind Il-20 recon planes to avoid Syrian missiles.
What do posters think on demarcation of forces in Syria? Area of operations for Iran. Including stationing of AD or BM. In published manner.
Most likely already happening.
In Syria, announced the effectiveness of the Soviet air defense system S-75 "Dvina"
If the target is a medium to large sized drone then the SA-2 is a perfect counter to such a threat... plenty of range... nice big payload to obliterate the target, available in numbers (they made hundreds of thousands of these things). And it saves newer more capable missiles like BUK and Pantsir for use against more difficult targets.
SA-2 was a medium to high altitude weapon for shooting down bombers. The SA-3 was for low to medium targets... together they were made in enormous numbers are are still used as targets and for use against simple threats like UAVs.
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