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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #21

    Khepesh
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #21 - Page 26 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #21

    Post  Khepesh Wed Sep 16, 2015 4:29 pm

    An excellent article on the state of Ukraine, psychologicaly and economically, by Dmitry Dzygovbrodsky, AKA Da Dzi. http://riss.ru/analitycs/20346/
    This is a brief paraphrased synopsis and I have used some concepts he has not, such as "group think" and a similar situation in western Europe as regards propaganda by politicians and media against populations, but I have only done this for what I think is greater clarity without translating his entire article.
    He deals with some basic psychology of what I would call the "mass mind", the natural inherent desire to be part of a crowd and not to be seen as an "outsider", and how this basic element of human nature makes us very susceptible to the modern mass media. We are told what to think in various ways, some very subtle, others rather obvious, but the outcome is that the message pushed out by the media and politicians is what we are meant to see as "normal", the "truth" and "what everybody else thinks". Those who see thro the lies are then made to feel as if their views are a minority, that they should be silent as the majority will be offended by their "incorrect" views. Well, I know this is a technique that is old and well known, but very effective as is seen in western European countries were a specific message about non European imigration is constantly chanted as a mantra and the mood music from media and politicians is that any view not in line with the "message", is wrong, or even illegal. This has happened in Ukraine, and normal people are scared to say anything about what has happened. Despite all that has happend since maidan, it is impossible to think that the majority of Ukranians outside Donbass are mindless fascists, that suddenly a small group of loonies from Galicia became all of Ukraine. Da Dzi says that the majority have fallen under the spell of the "group think", the "mass mind", and have become isolated in their own minds, scared to speak out. He says that the antidote to this is for them to see and realise the reality of what has happened and is happening. He gives examples of the casualty figures suffered by National Guard and Army since the beginning of the war, 50,000 he says, and that those who do not believe only have to see the graves at various cemeteries around the country. He points out that medicines have become very rare for normal people as the hospitals need all they can get for the vast numbers of wounded. he lists the increase of prices of various comodities, and as an example, wheat increased by 200%, sunflower oil 98%, poultry 67%, diesel 99%. He talks about the huge increase in crime, and where gun crime for all of last year was 425, this year from only January to March it is so far 567. Of course nothing of this can be seen in Ukranian media or heard from their politicians, only the constant mantra of "Russia bad" "Putin bad". Da Dzi does not use this specific phrase to sum up, but I will as it is fitting, "You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.". In Ukraine the reality will eventually break thro the mist and the people will loose their fear of speaking out.

    What Da Dzi says is right, but it needs courage to speak out, and while people know that any attempt to do so will lead to the SBU basement to join the thousands already there, I suspect the silence of normal people will continue.
    Neutrality
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #21 - Page 26 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #21

    Post  Neutrality Wed Sep 16, 2015 6:36 pm

    Khepesh wrote:An excellent article on the state of Ukraine, psychologicaly and economically, by Dmitry Dzygovbrodsky, AKA Da Dzi. http://riss.ru/analitycs/20346/
    This is a brief paraphrased synopsis and I have used some concepts he has not, such as "group think" and a similar situation in western Europe as regards propaganda by politicians and media against populations, but I have only done this for what I think is greater clarity without translating his entire article.
    He deals with some basic psychology of what I would call the "mass mind", the natural inherent desire to be part of a crowd and not to be seen as an "outsider", and how this basic element of human nature makes us very susceptible to the modern mass media. We are told what to think in various ways, some very subtle, others rather obvious, but the outcome is that the message pushed out by the media and politicians is what we are meant to see as "normal", the "truth" and "what everybody else thinks". Those who see thro the lies are then made to feel as if their views are a minority, that they should be silent as the majority will be offended by their "incorrect" views. Well, I know this is a technique that is old and well known, but very effective as is seen in western European countries were a specific message about non European imigration is constantly chanted as a mantra and the mood music from media and politicians is that any view not in line with the "message", is wrong, or even illegal. This has happened in Ukraine, and normal people are scared to say anything about what has happened. Despite all that has happend since maidan, it is impossible to think that the majority of Ukranians outside Donbass are mindless fascists, that suddenly a small group of loonies from Galicia became all of Ukraine. Da Dzi says that the majority have fallen under the spell of the "group think", the "mass mind", and have become isolated in their own minds, scared to speak out. He says that the antidote to this is for them to see and realise the reality of what has happened and is happening. He gives examples of the casualty figures suffered by National Guard and Army since the beginning of the war, 50,000 he says, and that those who do not believe only have to see the graves at various cemeteries around the country. He points out that medicines have become very rare for normal people as the hospitals need all they can get for the vast numbers of wounded. he lists the increase of prices of various comodities, and as an example, wheat increased by 200%, sunflower oil 98%, poultry 67%, diesel 99%. He talks about the huge increase in crime, and where gun crime for all of last year was 425, this year from only January to March it is so far 567. Of course nothing of this can be seen in Ukranian media or heard from their politicians, only the constant mantra of "Russia bad" "Putin bad". Da Dzi does not use this specific phrase to sum up, but I will as it is fitting, "You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.". In Ukraine the reality will eventually break thro the mist and the people will loose their fear of speaking out.

    What Da Dzi says is right, but it needs courage to speak out, and while people know that any attempt to do so will lead to the SBU basement to join the thousands already there, I suspect the silence of normal people will continue.

    Very interesting article. Thank you for linking this.
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #21 - Page 26 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #21

    Post  Rodinazombie Wed Sep 16, 2015 6:40 pm

    Latest brainfart out of ukie media is that motorola has been taken prisoner.... By isis in syria lol

    These guys are mentally challenged seriously, what next? Putin arrested by lizards on the moon?

    I had a conversation with a ukrainian today, something ive generally avoided over the past year, safe to say it didnt last very long when i pointed out a few home truths to her. She chided me because i dont like bandera and dont have the right to judge, so i pointed to the actions of people who support bandera in modern ukraine, at the thousands of people they have burnt and shelled over the past year.

    The response to which was 'war is war', followed by the usual putin xuylo meltdown and foaming at the mouth.

    They really have no logical argument to back up their actions when questioned about it. At the moment they are living in a parralel reality where they can do as they please and due to western support they have nobody to answer to. That will change one day and eventually they will have to face up to what they have done.
    Neutrality
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    Post  Neutrality Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:06 pm

    Rodinazombie wrote:Latest brainfart out of ukie media is that motorola has been taken prisoner.... By isis in syria lol

    These guys are mentally challenged seriously, what next? Putin arrested by lizards on the moon?

    I had a conversation with a ukrainian today, something ive generally avoided over the past year, safe to say it didnt last very long when i pointed out a few home truths to her. She chided me because i dont like bandera and dont have the right to judge, so i pointed to the actions of people who support bandera in modern ukraine, at the thousands of people they have burnt and shelled over the past year.

    The response to which was 'war is war', followed by the usual putin xuylo meltdown and foaming at the mouth.

    They really have no logical argument to back up their actions when questioned about it. At the moment they are living in a parralel reality where they can do as they please and due to western support they have nobody to answer to. That will change one day and eventually they will have to face up to what they have done.

    Well that only confirms what the above article (which Khepesh linked) tells. Entire nation kept under a mass psyche by what their media tells them.
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #21 - Page 26 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #21

    Post  PapaDragon Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:33 pm


    ''Russia: Ukraine Should not Expect Gas Discounts''

    http://fortruss.blogspot.rs/2015/09/russia-ukraine-should-not-expect-gas.html
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #21 - Page 26 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #21

    Post  Guest Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:19 pm

    Rodinazombie wrote:Latest brainfart out of ukie media is that motorola has been taken prisoner.... By isis in syria lol

    These guys are mentally challenged seriously, what next? Putin arrested by lizards on the moon?

    I had a conversation with a ukrainian today, something ive generally avoided over the past year, safe to say it didnt last very long when i pointed out a few home truths to her. She chided me because i dont like bandera and dont have the right to judge, so i pointed to the actions of people who support bandera in modern ukraine, at the thousands of people they have burnt and shelled over the past year.

    The response to which was 'war is war', followed by the usual putin xuylo meltdown and foaming at the mouth.

    They really have no logical argument to back up their actions when questioned about it. At the moment they are living in a parralel reality where they can do as they please and due to western support they have nobody to answer to. That will change one day and eventually they will have to face up to what they have done.
    Don't understand why you are even trying to discuss politics with Ukrops in the first place. My family knows a Ukrainian immigrant that lives close by. Talking about politics has become a taboo between us. We both know we stand on opposing sides and we avoid bringing it up and so far we are on talking terms. Not sure how much longer that will last as Ukraine isn't even done imploding yet. Your or my situation is nothing compared to what is happening over there. Stories about families that have been ripped apart just because they live in different places are rather common around the border area and Donbass. It saddens me more than anything that all the good people have been forced into hiding and that countless others are too brainwashed to see that their country is being cut down by an evil that was brought from the other side of the planet.
    Neutrality
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #21 - Page 26 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #21

    Post  Neutrality Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:47 pm

    Ivan the Colorado wrote:
    Rodinazombie wrote:Latest brainfart out of ukie media is that motorola has been taken prisoner.... By isis in syria lol

    These guys are mentally challenged seriously, what next? Putin arrested by lizards on the moon?

    I had a conversation with a ukrainian today, something ive generally avoided over the past year, safe to say it didnt last very long when i pointed out a few home truths to her. She chided me because i dont like bandera and dont have the right to judge, so i pointed to the actions of people who support bandera in modern ukraine, at the thousands of people they have burnt and shelled over the past year.

    The response to which was 'war is war', followed by the usual putin xuylo meltdown and foaming at the mouth.

    They really have no logical argument to back up their actions when questioned about it. At the moment they are living in a parralel reality where they can do as they please and due to western support they have nobody to answer to. That will change one day and eventually they will have to face up to what they have done.
    Don't understand why you are even trying to discuss politics with Ukrops in the first place. My family knows a Ukrainian immigrant that lives close by. Talking about politics has become a taboo between us. We both know we stand on opposing sides and we avoid bringing it up and so far we are on talking terms. Not sure how much longer that will last as Ukraine isn't even done imploding yet. Your or my situation is nothing compared to what is happening over there. Stories about families that have been ripped apart just because they live in different places are rather common around the border area and Donbass. It saddens me more than anything that all the good people have been forced into hiding and that countless others are too brainwashed to see that their country is being cut down by an evil that was brought from the other side of the planet.

    Something along the lines of "Wir haben das nicht gewusst" will be given as an excuse as soon as the nation wakes up.
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #21 - Page 26 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #21

    Post  Werewolf Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:19 am

    Neutrality wrote:
    Ivan the Colorado wrote:
    Rodinazombie wrote:Latest brainfart out of ukie media is that motorola has been taken prisoner.... By isis in syria lol

    These guys are mentally challenged seriously, what next? Putin arrested by lizards on the moon?

    I had a conversation with a ukrainian today, something ive generally avoided over the past year, safe to say it didnt last very long when i pointed out a few home truths to her. She chided me because i dont like bandera and dont have the right to judge, so i pointed to the actions of people who support bandera in modern ukraine, at the thousands of people they have burnt and shelled over the past year.

    The response to which was 'war is war', followed by the usual putin xuylo meltdown and foaming at the mouth.

    They really have no logical argument to back up their actions when questioned about it. At the moment they are living in a parralel reality where they can do as they please and due to western support they have nobody to answer to. That will change one day and eventually they will have to face up to what they have done.
    Don't understand why you are even trying to discuss politics with Ukrops in the first place. My family knows a Ukrainian immigrant that lives close by. Talking about politics has become a taboo between us. We both know we stand on opposing sides and we avoid bringing it up and so far we are on talking terms. Not sure how much longer that will last as Ukraine isn't even done imploding yet. Your or my situation is nothing compared to what is happening over there. Stories about families that have been ripped apart just because they live in different places are rather common around the border area and Donbass. It saddens me more than anything that all the good people have been forced into hiding and that countless others are too brainwashed to see that their country is being cut down by an evil that was brought from the other side of the planet.

    Something along the lines of "Wir haben das nicht gewusst" will be given as an excuse as soon as the nation wakes up.

    The most lazy and most used excuse since millenias.
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    Post  max steel Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:29 am

    Longest running thread

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #21 - Page 26 12039411
    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:36 am

    Rodinazombie wrote:Latest brainfart out of ukie media is that motorola has been taken prisoner.... By isis in syria lol

    These guys are mentally challenged seriously, what next? Putin arrested by lizards on the moon?

    I had a conversation with a ukrainian today, something ive generally avoided over the past year, safe to say it didnt last very long when i pointed out a few home truths to her. She chided me because i dont like bandera and dont have the right to judge, so i pointed to the actions of people who support bandera in modern ukraine, at the thousands of people they have burnt and shelled over the past year.

    The response to which was 'war is war', followed by the usual putin xuylo meltdown and foaming at the mouth.

    They really have no logical argument to back up their actions when questioned about it. At the moment they are living in a parralel reality where they can do as they please and due to western support they have nobody to answer to. That will change one day and eventually they will have to face up to what they have done.

    You realise you're talking to proper Nazis right? I mean in all but name, they pretty much are. The girl you're talking to sounds like the type that were writing 'fried collorados' in response to seeing the murdered, torched people in those Odessa aftermath vids, or the ones that were taunting 'Romeo and Julliet' when they came across a men's and women's corpse close together in the same building.

    I'm not talking about normal Ukrainians, I'm talking about the ones that it's not worth talking to.

    I mean if they regard another people as less deserving of a voice/rights/peaceful life/life at all, then what is there to talk with them about? Just hang them and that's that.
    We didn't try to talk Hitler out of his self-brainwashed, sick mind after all.

    max steel wrote:Longest running thread

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #21 - Page 26 12039411

    Classic

    Need to hang this up on my wall.
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    Post  Werewolf Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:51 am

    11 Juice in one picture among siding among their like minded supremacy assholes...
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    Post  PapaDragon Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:59 am

    Rodinazombie wrote:Latest brainfart out of ukie media is that motorola has been taken prisoner.... By isis in syria lol

    These guys are mentally challenged seriously, what next? Putin arrested by lizards on the moon?

    I had a conversation with a ukrainian today, something ive generally avoided over the past year, safe to say it didnt last very long when i pointed out a few home truths to her. She chided me because i dont like bandera and dont have the right to judge, so i pointed to the actions of people who support bandera in modern ukraine, at the thousands of people they have burnt and shelled over the past year.

    The response to which was 'war is war', followed by the usual putin xuylo meltdown and foaming at the mouth.

    They really have no logical argument to back up their actions when questioned about it. At the moment they are living in a parralel reality where they can do as they please and due to western support they have nobody to answer to. That will change one day and eventually they will have to face up to what they have done.

    Joke all you want but Lunar Reptilians are not to be taken lightly! lol1
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    Post  Khepesh Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:44 am

    Pupils from Gorlovka Childrens Home №1 and Militia veterans visited Moscow for five days. Here they lay flowers at tomb of unknown soldier.


    Edit: I just saw a quote from Ban Ki Moon that he is "shocked" about Hungarian border guards using teargas against migrants at Serbian border. So I searched for any quote by him about Donbass civilian deaths and injuries - nothing, only about how "shocked" he was about deaths of "peaceful protesters" at maidan last year, or vague comments about the situation, not a single comment about dead and injured Donbass children......
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #21 - Page 26 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #21

    Post  Khepesh Thu Sep 17, 2015 2:05 pm

    There are reports of a heavy explosion this morning near the Proletarskiy district of Donetsk. Here is the originating source for this, with photos. 62 ua is a Donetsk media outlet, not ukrops http://www.62.ua/news/963916
    Also, residents of Kuibishevskiy district reported explosions and gunfire this morning between 10:00 and 12:00. Kuibishevskiy is the oposite side of Donetsk to Proletarskiy so it is not the same incident. Possibly the explosions and gunfire at Kuibishevskiy were training. Yesterday in Kuibishevskiy a civilian was injured by a boobytrap bomb planted by ukrops DRG, today they died.
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #21 - Page 26 01304226bb0b
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    Post  higurashihougi Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:15 pm

    38th humanitarian convoy from Russia, brought about 750 tons of textbooks and 500 tons of food.

    https://eadaily.com/news/2015/09/17/kolonna-mchs-vezet-na-donbass-750-tonn-uchebnikov-i-500-tonn-produktov

    russia russia russia russia
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    Post  higurashihougi Thu Sep 17, 2015 6:50 pm

    Ah yes, freedom of press... only for Western journalists Laughing Laughing Laughing

    http://www.rt.com/news/315758-poroshenko-revoke-ban-bbc/

    Ukraine’s sanction list has become much shorter since President Petro Poroshenko has ordered to strike off the names of journalists for British, German and Spanish media outlets, apparently giving in to the pressure from European organizations and media.

    The National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine has scratched off the list the names of British, German and Spanish journalists, reported Poroshenko’s press secretary Svyatoslav Tsegolko on his Twitter account.

    That means that journalists from UK’s BBC, Spain’s El Pais and Germany’s Die Zeit now have the right to work in Ukraine.

    Initially, Tsegolko reported that only British journalists from BBC were excluded from the list.

    US Ambassador to Ukraine Geoffrey Pyatt has welcomed the decision, writing “Glad to see Minister Stets (Ukraine’s Information Policy Minister Yury Stets) agrees on press freedom and need to correct sanctions list.”
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    Post  auslander Thu Sep 17, 2015 7:58 pm

    Khepesh wrote:There are reports of a heavy explosion this morning near the Proletarskiy district of Donetsk. Here is the originating source for this, with photos. 62 ua is a Donetsk media outlet, not ukrops http://www.62.ua/news/963916
    Also, residents of Kuibishevskiy district reported explosions and gunfire this morning between 10:00 and 12:00. Kuibishevskiy is the oposite side of Donetsk to Proletarskiy so it is not the same incident. Possibly the explosions and gunfire at Kuibishevskiy were training. Yesterday in Kuibishevskiy a civilian was injured by a boobytrap bomb planted by ukrops DRG, today they died.
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #21 - Page 26 01304226bb0b

    There's going to be a lot of dead civilians in Novorossiya over the next 5 years and more. The forests and fields are full of mines and traps, toss in all the unexploded ordinance lying around and it's plain to see what will happen.

    There was rumor of a huge explosion in Donetsk either yesterday or the day before but there was no followup on that report and I don't remember where I saw it.
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    Post  Khepesh Thu Sep 17, 2015 8:10 pm

    auslander wrote:

    There was rumor of a huge explosion in Donetsk either yesterday or the day before but there was no followup on that report and I don't remember where I saw it.
    Basurin has said it was disposal of unexploded munitions. Not clever that warning was not given.
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    Post  Khepesh Thu Sep 17, 2015 8:19 pm

    Ukrops are trying different tactics to terrorise Donetsk. There were vague reports of ukrops DRG active for some days in the countryside by Kuibishevsky. Yesterday a civilian was injured by a boobytrap and then died today. This morning over a two hour period low level explosions and gunfire were reported, so far no explanation is given. This afternoon Hospital №19 in Kuibishevsky came under small arms fire from the direction of Peski. No injuries, only damage to the facade, windows and hospital vehicles.  http://dan-news.info/defence/v-donecke-obstrelyali-bolnicu-19-ogon-byl-otkryt-iz-okkupirovannogo-poselka-peski.html
    Map is centered on the hospital, zoom out and the front line is to the NW a little way beyond the junction of Krasnoarmaiskoe and Stratonavtov https://maps.yandex.ru/142/donetsk/?ll=37.714265%2C48.032311&spn=3.284912%2C1.351431&z=18&l=map
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    Post  auslander Thu Sep 17, 2015 9:54 pm

    The orcs will not stop, my clever little raccoon, it is not allowed by their masters. Since Mutti Merkel kicked Porky in the nuts the big guns are generally, not always but generally, silent. Small arms and infiltration groups from both sides are active and will continue to be so. Such is life.
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    Post  PapaDragon Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:06 pm


    & Costello... Laughing

    Former Australian PM Tony Abbott May Join Ukraine’s Reform Council

    http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150917/1027155055/tony-abbott-ukrainian-job.html#ixzz3m1Zbklrg




    Russia Warns Kiev Against Default on Debt Payment

    http://sputniknews.com/business/20150917/1027157831.html#ixzz3m1ZU99jh
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:29 pm

    Slava Ukraine and it's domination by non-Ukrainians/foreigners... lol1
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    Crucible


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    Post  Crucible Fri Sep 18, 2015 12:57 am



    How incredibly offensive, this man most likely died to free Poland(I may be wrong, just posting here as soon as I saw this), then they tear it down.


    Starting to agree with Zhirinovsky.
    PapaDragon
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #21 - Page 26 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #21

    Post  PapaDragon Fri Sep 18, 2015 1:08 am


    This is awesome!!! lol1

    ''Ukraine is furious after Putin drank one of Crimea's oldest bottles of wine with former Italian Prime Minister Berlusconi''

    http://www.businessinsider.com/ukraine-mad-at-putin-and-berlusconi-2015-9

    Auslander, you mentioned this particular brand of vine, speak to us of it's taste! drunken russia
    kvs
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #21 - Page 26 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #21

    Post  kvs Fri Sep 18, 2015 1:50 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    This is awesome!!! lol1

    ''Ukraine is furious after Putin drank one of Crimea's oldest bottles of wine with former Italian Prime Minister Berlusconi''

    http://www.businessinsider.com/ukraine-mad-at-putin-and-berlusconi-2015-9

    Auslander, you mentioned this particular brand of vine, speak to us of it's taste!  drunken russia

    The Kiev regime and the Banderatards are something else. This bottle of wine has exactly zero to do with
    Ukraine.

    Khurschev had no legal authority to donate Crimea to Ukraine in 1954. That is why it was "given" as an autonomy.
    In 1991 this autonomous republic had the legal right to decide whether to stay part of Ukraine or not. Of course it
    was denied its human rights by NATzO and Kiev. NATzO and Kiev can go and eat shit.

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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #21 - Page 26 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #21

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