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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #21

    Erk
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #21 - Page 25 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #21

    Post  Erk Mon Sep 14, 2015 9:27 pm



    Silence is broken
    Odin of Ossetia
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    Post  Odin of Ossetia Mon Sep 14, 2015 11:13 pm

    Project Canada wrote:

    Russia Won't Let Ukrainians Freeze This Winter, Despite Hostility From Kiev

    http://sputniknews.com/business/20150914/1026964308/russia-ukraine-gas-europe.html#ixzz3liFSc3Dv

    Suspect


    I wonder why Poland does not get such preferential treatment, only the highest gas prices for the Russian natural gas.


    dunno
    Erk
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #21 - Page 25 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #21

    Post  Erk Tue Sep 15, 2015 12:30 am

    Odin of Ossetia wrote:
    Project Canada wrote:

    Russia Won't Let Ukrainians Freeze This Winter, Despite Hostility From Kiev

    http://sputniknews.com/business/20150914/1026964308/russia-ukraine-gas-europe.html#ixzz3liFSc3Dv

    Suspect


    I wonder why Poland does not get such preferential treatment, only the highest gas prices for the Russian natural gas.


    dunno
    Poland are further away, ie. more transit rights to pay to get there, and ultimately it's the deal you cut, if they have weak negotiators they get a worse deal.


    magnumcromagnon
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #21 - Page 25 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #21

    Post  magnumcromagnon Tue Sep 15, 2015 1:31 am

    Erk wrote:
    Odin of Ossetia wrote:
    Project Canada wrote:

    Russia Won't Let Ukrainians Freeze This Winter, Despite Hostility From Kiev

    http://sputniknews.com/business/20150914/1026964308/russia-ukraine-gas-europe.html#ixzz3liFSc3Dv

    Suspect


    I wonder why Poland does not get such preferential treatment, only the highest gas prices for the Russian natural gas.


    dunno
    Poland are further away, ie. more transit rights to pay to get there, and ultimately it's the deal you cut, if they have weak negotiators they get a worse deal.



    It doesn't help to have a country (Poland) led by very hostile Russophobic Neo-cons.
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #21 - Page 25 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #21

    Post  PapaDragon Tue Sep 15, 2015 5:39 am


    Ukrainian Migrants Seen as ‘Third Class’ by Europe- Austrian Media

    http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150915/1027004938/ukraine-refugees-media.html#ixzz3lna0jXc4
    avatar
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #21 - Page 25 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #21

    Post  Vann7 Tue Sep 15, 2015 6:27 am

    The Russianization of pro European Ukrainians.. and even of Russian Liberals.. can only
    happen with the Nation major economic development ,and modernization..
    everyone who wants to be closer to Europe or Americans.. is only because material things..
    Better salaries , technology , modernization ,and "higher quality of life" that is nothing but
    prettier infrastructure ,shopping malls and better salaries. yes it is possible..
    But Russian leadership waste opportunities by over spending in things they really dont need.
    Like more nukes or a very large navy.

    Get a Russian in mars to land and return .and the Russian patriotism will skyrocket..
    the pride of being first will finally get rid of the Liberals in Russia and its 5th column...and will turn people into patriotic and believe in their in the defense of their nation identity.

    Nationalism is more tricky , usually you see nationalism in nations with very poor economies
    that blame their economic issues on migrants.
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #21 - Page 25 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #21

    Post  higurashihougi Tue Sep 15, 2015 6:30 am

    Sometimes Suckashizvili managed to say something right. Laughing

    https://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/s-aakashvili-says-ukraine-run-by-shadow-oligarchic-government-397787.html

    Ukraine is de facto run by a “shadow government” whose strings are pulled by oligarchs behind the scenes, Mikheil Saakashvili, ex-president of Georgia and governor of Odesa Oblast, said on Sept. 12 at the Yalta European Strategy forum in Kyiv.

    “We certainly have the reality of some kind of shadow, parallel government,” he said. “You can describe Ukraine as a joint-stock company owned by oligarchs… Every oligarch owns his own judges, prosecutors and paramilitary units.”

    Well, the hounds are biting each others. Laughing
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    Post  Big_Gazza Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:45 am

    higurashihougi wrote:Sometimes Suckashizvili managed to say something right. Laughing

    https://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/s-aakashvili-says-ukraine-run-by-shadow-oligarchic-government-397787.html

    Ukraine is de facto run by a “shadow government” whose strings are pulled by oligarchs behind the scenes, Mikheil Saakashvili, ex-president of Georgia and governor of Odesa Oblast, said on Sept. 12 at the Yalta European Strategy forum in Kyiv.

    “We certainly have the reality of some kind of shadow, parallel government,” he said. “You can describe Ukraine as a joint-stock company owned by oligarchs… Every oligarch owns his own judges, prosecutors and paramilitary units.”

    Well, the hounds are biting each others. Laughing

    I really HATE to say this (as he is such a c&nt) but I'm starting to develop a tiny bit of respect for the Terrible Tie-eater from Tbilisi. He is daring to utter the truth, which is something the Nulandistani banderites and their US/EU backers simply never do.

    ....

    ....

    No, the moment has passed. Saaki is still a c&nt.

    [Apologies to those offended by harsh language]

    [meh, who am i kidding Very Happy ]
    higurashihougi
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #21 - Page 25 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #21

    Post  higurashihougi Tue Sep 15, 2015 10:00 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Ukrainian Migrants Seen as ‘Third Class’ by Europe- Austrian Media

    http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150915/1027004938/ukraine-refugees-media.html#ixzz3lna0jXc4

    European goverments should seriously question themselves who is the one caused all these tragedies and miseries.

    Unless, well they know, but cannot say.
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #21 - Page 25 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #21

    Post  JohninMK Tue Sep 15, 2015 10:18 am

    Here is an optimist. The EU has no pot of gold and the little pile of silver in the corner is going to be spent on migrants. Anyway, Ukraine is not in the EU and EU overseas aid should be going to real refugees.

    Ukraine relies on financial aid from the European Union to restore the infrastructure in Donbass ruined during the military operation in the region, Ukrainian Infrastructure Minister Andrey Pivovarsky said. The damage in the region has topped $1 billion, according to the minister. "If the damage is assessed monetarily it is much more than $1 billion. This is a fact," the minister said as quoted by Ukrinform. He added that he had discussed with the European Commission whether it was possible to begin restoration works in Donbass.

    "Now, we can’t do anything there. Only preparation and planning are possible. I reported to the European Commission on the possible damage in the region and in the border area so our colleagues could start considering an aid package," Pivovarsky underscored. He noted that no concrete aid measures have been discussed.

    In April 2014, Kiev launched a military offensive in Donbass against the self-proclaimed Donetsk and Lugansk People’s Republics. According to latest UN data, nearly 7,900 people have been killed in the operation. In September 2014, the Minsk talks resulted in a series of agreements to de-escalate the conflict.

    On August 26, the Minsk group held talks during which the sides agreed on a ceasefire in Donbass beginning September 1. On September 13, during his meeting with former British Prime Minister, Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko said that the ceasefire has been observed in Donbass since late-August.


    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150915/1027016457/kiev-eu-aid-donbass.html#ixzz3lohdoFRY
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    Post  PapaDragon Tue Sep 15, 2015 10:47 am


    They keep forgetting that ego shrinks in low temperature... Razz

    ''Ukraine Ready to Pay European Price for Russian Gas Without Transit Fees"

    http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150915/1027027557.html
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #21 - Page 25 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #21

    Post  JohninMK Tue Sep 15, 2015 10:58 am

    JohninMK wrote:If true this is amazing, taken at face value, hundreds and hundreds of tanks, APC and IFV must have hit the roads. I am sure he didn't mean to include trucks and other logistics vehicles, possibly clearer in the original Ukrainian.

    KIEV, September 14. /TASS/. All Ukrainian tanks have been withdrawn from the contact line in accordance with the Minsk agreements, Ukrainian defense ministry said on Monday.

    "All military vehicles have been withdrawn from the contact line to a distance outlined in the Minsk agreements," the defense ministry said.

    At the same time, the ministry noted that "they will fast take fighting positions and resist the enemy in case of provocation, right after receiving a command from the leadership."



    I have just read today's OSCE update and there is, of course no mention of any mass vehicle movements in the Government controlled areas, no convoys, no loaded flatbeds (since the handful last week) etc. They would show up as 'illegal' movements at least to start with. There are still compounds with missing artillery and Grad launchers. Looks like normal Kiev B/S or that they don't know what is happening.
    So, B/S it is. DPR generally knows what's up

    MOSCOW, September 15. /TASS/. Intelligence service of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR) has detected new lines of multiple rocket launcher systems and self-propelled guns of Ukrainian armed forces in the town of Krasnogorovka close to the western outskirts of Donetsk, republic defense ministry’s spokesman Eduard Basurin said on Tuesday.

    "Taking advantage of a formal ceasefire, Ukrainian troops keep concentrating arms and military hardware banned by the Minsk agreements along the disengagement line," the Donetsk News Agency quoted him as saying. "Thus, DPR intelligence has spotted four Grad multiple rocket launcher systems and four self-propelled guns in the settlement of Krasnogorovka, three kilometers from the disengagement line," he said.

    The Contact Group on resolving the crisis in Donbas agreed at the meeting in Minsk, Belarus, in late August to ensure complete ceasefire starting from September 1. However, the DPR defense ministry has repeatedly said the Ukrainian troops were taking advantage of the truce to regroup their forces.
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #21 - Page 25 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #21

    Post  JohninMK Tue Sep 15, 2015 11:01 am

    If there is to be a day in court.................

    MOSCOW, September 15. /TASS/. Self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR) has readied evidence for 150 episodes of war crimes committed by Ukrainian military in Donbass in order to hand it to the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR), Chairman of the public commission for war crimes Ivan Kopyl told the Donetsk news agency.

    "The cases qualitatively worked out will be transferred to the European Court of Human Rights and International Criminal Court as our main destinations," Kopyl said. "An International Tribunal into the Ukraine War may be established. Now there are around 150 such episodes." All the episodes are supported by evidence and experts’ assessments, Kopyl said. "Work on the cases is going on constantly so they can be handed later to the international courts and our experts never cease to work," he said. "As of today, 2,500 cases of war crimes committed by Ukrainian Armed Forces’ servicemen have been recorded in the register."

    On July 8, the heads of the self-proclaimed People’s Republics of Lugansk (LPR) and Donetsk (DPR) Igor Plotnitsky and Alexander Zakharchenko filed an appeal with the UN Security Council to establish an international tribunal for investigating into the crimes committed by Ukrainian troops in Donbass.

    In a joint statement, the leaders said that Ukraine’s Armed Forces, National Guard and punitive battalions committed mass murders, tortured people and used weapons banned by international conventions as well as deliberately targeted residential areas and civil infrastructure.


    higurashihougi
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    Post  higurashihougi Tue Sep 15, 2015 11:18 am

    Truth is usually harsh you know Very Happy

    http://www.rt.com/politics/315429-ukraine-should-not-count-on/

    The head of Russia’s Security Council has said that US military aid to the Kiev regime was very unlikely as Washington is not interested in its success. It only intended to use the conflict in Ukraine as leverage for US influence on the European Union.

    “As for military aid to Ukraine, I think this is not something to count on. Washington has no need of Ukraine’s military success just as it is not interested in the economic prosperity of this country,” Nikolai Patrushev told reporters on Tuesday.

    He also noted that the United States were directly influencing top Ukrainian politicians and had used the crisis situation in the country, including the military conflict in Donbass, for its own geopolitical ends.

    “It depends on the Department of State if the Minsk agreements will be observed. The White House emphasizes Europe’s dependence when decisions on international relations are made. It also uses sanctions in attempts to break Russia, which carries out independent internal and external policies,” Interfax quoted the security official as saying.

    “The war started by Kiev gives Washington an opportunity to radically influence the policies of EU nations and demonstrate their ‘exceptionalism’ in solving any issues in any region of the world,” Patrushev told reporters.
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Tue Sep 15, 2015 11:41 am

    JohninMK wrote:If there is to be a day in court.................

    MOSCOW, September 15. /TASS/. Self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR) has readied evidence for 150 episodes of war crimes committed by Ukrainian military in Donbass in order to hand it to the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR), Chairman of the public commission for war crimes Ivan Kopyl told the Donetsk news agency.

    "The cases qualitatively worked out will be transferred to the European Court of Human Rights and International Criminal Court as our main destinations," Kopyl said. "An International Tribunal into the Ukraine War may be established. Now there are around 150 such episodes." All the episodes are supported by evidence and experts’ assessments, Kopyl said. "Work on the cases is going on constantly so they can be handed later to the international courts and our experts never cease to work," he said. "As of today, 2,500 cases of war crimes committed by Ukrainian Armed Forces’ servicemen have been recorded in the register."

    On July 8, the heads of the self-proclaimed People’s Republics of Lugansk (LPR) and Donetsk (DPR) Igor Plotnitsky and Alexander Zakharchenko filed an appeal with the UN Security Council to establish an international tribunal for investigating into the crimes committed by Ukrainian troops in Donbass.

    In a joint statement, the leaders said that Ukraine’s Armed Forces, National Guard and punitive battalions committed mass murders, tortured people and used weapons banned by international conventions as well as deliberately targeted residential areas and civil infrastructure.



    Let's not hold our breath, the ECHR is notoriously Russophobic, I can't even think of a time where they even ruled in favor for Russia. Honestly it's just like PACE, Russia should permanently suspend cooperation with that stupifyingly pathetic kangaroo court.
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    Post  higurashihougi Tue Sep 15, 2015 12:12 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:Let's not hold our breath, the ECHR is notoriously Russophobic, I can't even think of a time where they even ruled in favor for Russia. Honestly it's just like PACE, Russia should permanently suspend cooperation with that stupifyingly pathetic kangaroo court.

    This is political gesture. Novo probably won't expect ECHR may do anything for them, actually they do it as a slap to the face of ECHR and Western politicians. "The people know that you are a piece of shit and we have evidences", something like that.

    BTW, well, Kyiv is essentially a beggar for now.

    http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150915/1027016457/kiev-eu-aid-donbass.html

    Kiev Wants EU to Pay for Restoration of Donbass

    Ukraine relies on financial aid from the European Union to restore the infrastructure in Donbass ruined during the military operation in the region, Ukrainian Infrastructure Minister Andrey Pivovarsky said.
    magnumcromagnon
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #21 - Page 25 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #21

    Post  magnumcromagnon Tue Sep 15, 2015 3:45 pm

    For all the Trump supporters...Time to eat your words:

    Trump Slams Obama as Weak on Russia
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    Post  sepheronx Tue Sep 15, 2015 3:48 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:For all the Trump supporters...Time to eat your words:

    Trump Slams Obama as Weak on Russia

    Trump flip flops. He was saying Ukraine was Europes Problem. Now Obama is too soft on them.

    Hence why he has now fallen behind in the polls. Same with Hitlery.
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    Post  Khepesh Tue Sep 15, 2015 3:58 pm

    Spartak yesterday

    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Tue Sep 15, 2015 3:59 pm

    sepheronx wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:For all the Trump supporters...Time to eat your words:

    Trump Slams Obama as Weak on Russia

    Trump flip flops. He was saying Ukraine was Europes Problem. Now Obama is too soft on them.

    Hence why he has now fallen behind in the polls. Same with Hitlery.

    Yeah that's addressed in the article...I posted this to give a 'heads-up' for all the people who had a hard-on for him.
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    Post  Odin of Ossetia Tue Sep 15, 2015 4:38 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Erk wrote:
    Odin of Ossetia wrote:
    Project Canada wrote:

    Russia Won't Let Ukrainians Freeze This Winter, Despite Hostility From Kiev

    http://sputniknews.com/business/20150914/1026964308/russia-ukraine-gas-europe.html#ixzz3liFSc3Dv

    Suspect


    I wonder why Poland does not get such preferential treatment, only the highest gas prices for the Russian natural gas.


    dunno
    Poland are further away, ie. more transit rights to pay to get there, and ultimately it's the deal you cut, if they have weak negotiators they get a worse deal.



    It doesn't help to have a country (Poland) led by very hostile Russophobic Neo-cons.


    Poland pays more than such far wealthier and even farther away located countries like Germany, Austria, Czechia, and others.


    And "Russia will not let Ukraine freeze" but is Ukraine friendly to Russia? Ukraine is currently more hostile to Russia than Poland is.
    Erk
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    Post  Erk Tue Sep 15, 2015 5:43 pm

    Odin of Ossetia wrote:


    Poland pays more than such far wealthier and even farther away located countries like Germany, Austria, Czechia, and others.


    And "Russia will not let Ukraine freeze" but is Ukraine friendly to Russia? Ukraine is currently more hostile to Russia than Poland is.
    Germany buys like 4 times the volume of gas that Poland does, so you would expect them to get the best deal, also Germany and the other countries you mentioned, get their gas from different pipelines than Poland, which has to pay for the for gas transit rights across Belarus each year. Lastly, Poland has done little to gain Russia's favor either, it's one of the main critics in the region.
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    Post  flamming_python Tue Sep 15, 2015 6:07 pm

    Odin of Ossetia wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Erk wrote:
    Odin of Ossetia wrote:
    Project Canada wrote:

    Russia Won't Let Ukrainians Freeze This Winter, Despite Hostility From Kiev

    http://sputniknews.com/business/20150914/1026964308/russia-ukraine-gas-europe.html#ixzz3liFSc3Dv

    Suspect


    I wonder why Poland does not get such preferential treatment, only the highest gas prices for the Russian natural gas.


    dunno
    Poland are further away, ie. more transit rights to pay to get there, and ultimately it's the deal you cut, if they have weak negotiators they get a worse deal.



    It doesn't help to have a country (Poland) led by very hostile Russophobic Neo-cons.


    Poland pays more than such far wealthier and even farther away located countries like Germany, Austria, Czechia, and others.


    And "Russia will not let Ukraine freeze" but is Ukraine friendly to Russia? Ukraine is currently more hostile to Russia than Poland is.

    I don't like it either.

    Russia is trying to win 'hearts and minds' in the Ukraine, but whatever it wins can be erased in a few years again, when the horde of baboons again overthrow whatever 'traitor' government that is cosying up with Moscow.

    I'm convinced that there really is no alternative but to cut it off for good, and let the Ukrainians live by their own means, without any "brotherly assistance".
    No subsidies, no gas price cuts, no loans, no preferential treatment, no state investments, no nothing. Trade is fine, so long as its mutually beneficial and complies with the rules and tariffs of the free market. They can buy anything from Russia they want - so long as they can pay for it.

    Russia however just can't seem to let the Ukraine go.
    All this crap; forcing the Donbass to be part of a nation that wants to see its population ethnically cleansed, the gas price discounts, etc...
    It's all futile, the wrong idea and the wrong strategy.

    The Ukraine should be kicked out, banished and cut-off from everything Russian; let them buy gas with a discount from Europe if it's a discount that they want.
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    Post  Erk Tue Sep 15, 2015 10:02 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    The Ukraine should be kicked out, banished and cut-off from everything Russian; let them buy gas with a discount from Europe if it's a discount that they want.
    That's the idea isn't it? Else why would Gazprom be bothering to run extremely expensive new gas pipelines that totally bypass Ukraine?

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    Post  auslander Tue Sep 15, 2015 10:48 pm

    Khepesh wrote:Spartak yesterday


    Must be what they meant when OSCE et al said there were no violations yesterday. The orcs just can't stop.

    Sponsored content


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