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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #20

    Khepesh
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    Post  Khepesh Mon Aug 31, 2015 1:00 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:

    Khep you know I like you, but there's no logic into pumping even 20 billion a year in Ukraine without getting back Donbass fully. Ukraine has collapsed, it just doesn care anymore. The country is a corpse and living out of thin air. There wre enough people that mentionned how the UAH was overperforming for months because of the Holy Spirit. I you think this is a country that can continue being a beggar and have a future, you watch out for the next decade. The only way for Ukraine to survive, is like Serbia, to give up on both Donbass and Crimea. Serbia was even further "partitionned" back in 2006. Think about how worse it could get for it.

    While ATO presses hard against the front, while the front is even on territory of DNR/LNR, then Ukraine has not collapsed and there is a severe problem to be dealt with. Ukraine can be said to have collapsed when it is clearly seen to have collapsed, and throwing around economic figures means nothing to me while they can support ATO, while there are not food riots and Verkhovna Rada is not in flames. For them to give up on Crimea and DNR/LNR and for this to be accepted will be a strategic defeat for Russia as it will be an admission that the majority of Ukraine will be an American client state with major NATO bases. I believe that insufficient thought is given to the strength of the American desire to take Ukraine, and I believe that the proposition that this will be a "long haul" is false and will soon be seen to be false. The concept of the "frozen conflict" occured due to the weakness of post Soviet Russia led by theives and total morons. This is not the case now and I believe that rectifications will take place that should have occured years ago. Ukraine cannot be allowed to let go Crimea and Donbass, a new frozen conflict cannot be allowed, Ukraine cannot accept a frozen conflict. Kiev needs to attack, and despite knowing it's forces will get fucked, but not all and not instantly, will plead to the world that they are "invaded by Russia" and call for every type of help available. What they get will be another matter and we do not know what Washington has told them. It is Kiev that fights for it's life, not DNR/LNR despite the bombardments, and simply to survive Kiev will if necessary ignore the EU and hope that Washington will save them. We do not know, we can only speculate as to what Washington will do, or how far it will go, certainly not to the brink of WWIII, tho to me Washington is ruled by unstable psychopaths and anything may happen. Washington will do what it needs to take Ukraine, and will be happy if it does so even without Crimea and 2/3 Donbass, as any American General will be more than happy to sit on top of a tower at the border and see Belgorod in his binoculars. Ukraine will not collapse, unless there is a revolution in the next few months, because there will not be time for it to collapse over the long term. This will certainly end with the collapse of the junta, but it will be by force, not waiting.
    Khepesh
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #20 - Page 35 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #20

    Post  Khepesh Mon Aug 31, 2015 1:16 pm

    The scenes in Kiev
    Live transmission. They are flying "Svoboda" flags. maidan3 ?... http://112.ua/live
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    Rodinazombie

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    Post  Rodinazombie Mon Aug 31, 2015 1:41 pm

    Are porky and co still inside?
    TheArmenian
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    Post  TheArmenian Mon Aug 31, 2015 1:43 pm

    Khepesh wrote:The scenes in Kiev
    Live transmission. They are flying "Svoboda" flags. maidan3 ?... http://112.ua/live

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #20 - Page 35 SkDISaV
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    Rodinazombie

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    Post  Rodinazombie Mon Aug 31, 2015 1:45 pm

    Quick question, are the russian agents paid by putin the ones inside the rada, or outside?

    And now that ukrainian patriots are protesting violently against him, does this mean that poroshenko is now a pro russian president like yanukovych was?
    Khepesh
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    Post  Khepesh Mon Aug 31, 2015 1:56 pm

    Pravy sektor call for armed uprising http://rusvesna.su/news/1441020284
    Would be good if this was maidan 3, but I think this is going to be repressed quickly. The maidunts with their helmets and sheilds are there, but not very many, not enough to be a serious threat.


    Last edited by Khepesh on Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
    Flagship Victory
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    Post  Flagship Victory Mon Aug 31, 2015 1:59 pm

    There is no Maidan 3. There is no leader. There is no super power backing. Poroshenko backed by the US led Maidan riot. Ukraine will not collapse. Even Syria has not collapse. As for Maidan 2, it's already dead. There was a 30 day deadline to implement it. Poroshenko never implemented it and broke it since day 1. It is legal for either side to make an offensive. Zackarchenko won't do it, because he does not want to sacrifice the lives of so many men to liberate Donbas. NAF did only 16 attacks yesterday. Seems NAF is backing off and going for full ceasefire.

    IF NAF does launch offensive NOW, Maidan will collapse from assaults from both the west and the east. BUT Russia will not allow NAF to do offensive because Russia wants to save Maidan from collapse because frankly, to Russia, Ukraine is a brother country even though Ukraine hates Russia to the bone.


    Last edited by Flagship Victory on Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
    Khepesh
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    Post  Khepesh Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:00 pm

    Khepesh wrote:Ukraine can be said to have collapsed when it is clearly seen to have collapsed, and throwing around economic figures means nothing to me while they can support ATO, while there are not food riots and Verkhovna Rada is not in flames.
    Quoting myself before anybody else does.
    Even while I was writing that post I was overtaken by events, but good.....
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #20 - Page 35 1432e9a184ba
    Flagship Victory
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    Post  Flagship Victory Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:02 pm

    At least 20 National Guard soldiers injured outside Rada

    http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/approximately-20-national-guard-servicemen-injured-near-verkhovna-rada-396859.html
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    Rodinazombie

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    Post  Rodinazombie Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:05 pm

    Khepesh wrote:Pravy sektor call for armed uprising http://rusvesna.su/news/1441020284
    Would be good if this was maidan 3, but I think this is going to be repressed quickly. The maidunts with their helmets and sheilds are there, but not very many, not enough to be a serious threat.

    I agree, though we can always hope.

    Now, where are a bunch of guys with sniper rifles when you need them mr poroshenko?
    Neutrality
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    Post  Neutrality Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:07 pm

    Ukrainian mass media trying to shift attention from Kiev to the East of the country.
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    Post  Neutrality Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:14 pm

    Haha, one PM is already blaming Kremlin and Putin for destabilizing the situation. Greatest comedy show on TV since 2013.
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    Post  Khepesh Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:17 pm

    Russian media has been reporting over 30+ casualties among police and I thought that was rather high. Well, chief of Kiev Police, Alexander Tereshchuk has said that about 100 police have been wounded. http://112.ua/obshchestvo/v-stolknoveniyah-pod-radoy-poluchili-raneniya-okolo-100-pravoohraniteley-mvd-255277.html Elsewhere Klitshko says that it is all over, and others are blaming Putin.....
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    Post  Khepesh Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:20 pm

    Rodinazombie wrote:
    Khepesh wrote:Pravy sektor call for armed uprising http://rusvesna.su/news/1441020284
    Would be good if this was maidan 3, but I think this is going to be repressed quickly. The maidunts with their helmets and sheilds are there, but not very many, not enough to be a serious threat.

    I agree, though we can always hope.

    Now, where are a bunch of guys with sniper rifles when you need them mr poroshenko?
    I want to know what Obama thinks of this, for instance, are they "peaceful protestors" and will he give Poroshenko strong warnings about not using force. But we know western media will never remind him or their readers and viewers....
    KoTeMoRe
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    Post  KoTeMoRe Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:26 pm

    Khepesh wrote:
    Rodinazombie wrote:
    Khepesh wrote:Pravy sektor call for armed uprising http://rusvesna.su/news/1441020284
    Would be good if this was maidan 3, but I think this is going to be repressed quickly. The maidunts with their helmets and sheilds are there, but not very many, not enough to be a serious threat.

    I agree, though we can always hope.

    Now, where are a bunch of guys with sniper rifles when you need them mr poroshenko?
    I want to know what Obama thinks of this, for instance, are they "peaceful protestors" and will he give Poroshenko strong warnings about not using force. But we know western media will never remind him or their readers and viewers....



    Just picture Porkoshenko.


    Last edited by KoTeMoRe on Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
    Khepesh
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    Post  Khepesh Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:26 pm

    Fighting between Police and pravy sektor reported now at Mariinsky Park....
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    Rodinazombie

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    Post  Rodinazombie Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:26 pm

    Khepesh wrote:
    Rodinazombie wrote:
    Khepesh wrote:Pravy sektor call for armed uprising http://rusvesna.su/news/1441020284
    Would be good if this was maidan 3, but I think this is going to be repressed quickly. The maidunts with their helmets and sheilds are there, but not very many, not enough to be a serious threat.

    I agree, though we can always hope.

    Now, where are a bunch of guys with sniper rifles when you need them mr poroshenko?
    I want to know what Obama thinks of this, for instance, are they "peaceful protestors" and will he give Poroshenko strong warnings about not using force. But we know western media will never remind him or their readers and viewers....

    Oh i think this story will appear in our (uk) media, but it will be watered down and without the hysterical angle they took during maidan. There may be a mention of a blast or police injured, but it will say that the exact cause is unknown, and most probably they will report that 'a senior ukie mp blamed russian securty services for the incident'


    Neutrality
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    Post  Neutrality Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:30 pm

    Skoropadskiy (Right Sector spokesperson) just said on 112.ua that this is pretty much the same thing that Yanukovich did 2 years ago and that Poroshenko started to spill his own blood (if I heard that correctly). He condemned the violence from the police, trying to beat down a "peaceful" protest.

    Now both sides are calling eachother provocateurs and so on and so on. I guess we'll just have to continue watching and see what happens tonight.
    Khepesh
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    Post  Khepesh Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:30 pm

    Klitshko says there have been deaths, he may having been refering to his brain cells.....
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    Post  KoTeMoRe Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:31 pm

    Khepesh wrote:Fighting between Police and pravy sektor reported now at Mariinsky Park....

    Always a good idea to arm radicals...it never backfires.
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    Post  Neutrality Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:34 pm

    Well it seems Poroshenko has been too cocky as some PMs in the Rada from several parties are raising the impeachment question.
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    Post  Rodinazombie Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:39 pm

    Neutrality wrote:Well it seems Poroshenko has been too cocky as some PMs in the Rada from several parties are raising the impeachment question.

    Could that not be more down to an armed mob throng hand grenades outside than porky himself?

    But hey, that exact process was deemed democratic by the west last february so i dont see why they would have issues with it now.
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    Post  wilhelm Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:39 pm

    franco wrote:
    Erk wrote:A rather strange Fort Russ aticle.
    http://fortruss.blogspot.ca/2015/08/tank-airlift-explains-why-there-are-no.html

    August 30, 2015
    Translated from German by Tom Winter
    "It is a new provocation against the territorial integrity of the free and democratic Ukraine by the well-known deviousness of the Russians." As the first freely elected president of Ukraine, Petro Poroshenko sent word at a press conference, that three Russian aircraft carriers have been brought in to the port of embattled eastern Ukrainian Donetsk, each with 30 of the latest Russian bombers of type Sukhoi T-50.


    Furthermore, Moscow had set up an airlift of tanks in the separatist regions. Ten transport aircraft, Antonov 225 Mrija, are in use, that bring in another load of tanks every two hours.


    A key word at the very beginning... a satire. In other words the whole thing is a joke.
    Donbas does not have a port nor do the Russians have 3 aircraft carriers. There are also not 90 T-50's.
    There are not 10 An-225 flying into a non operational airport in Donbas every 2 hours unloading tanks.

    Only one An-225 was ever completed. A second An-225 was started, but never finished. Pictures can be seen on google....only part of the fuselage was built.
    auslander
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    Post  auslander Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:50 pm

    Khepesh wrote:
    Rodinazombie wrote:
    Khepesh wrote:Pravy sektor call for armed uprising http://rusvesna.su/news/1441020284
    Would be good if this was maidan 3, but I think this is going to be repressed quickly. The maidunts with their helmets and sheilds are there, but not very many, not enough to be a serious threat.

    I agree, though we can always hope.

    Now, where are a bunch of guys with sniper rifles when you need them mr poroshenko?
    I want to know what Obama thinks of this, for instance, are they "peaceful protestors" and will he give Poroshenko strong warnings about not using force. But we know western media will never remind him or their readers and viewers....

    If this gets even remotely serious it will be crushed with violence that was never seen during the coup. The West will be silent.
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    Post  Khepesh Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:50 pm

    Yarosh condemns what happened, probably scared of a "Night of the long Knives", while it seems, without verification, that Tyaginbok was there, and "Svoboda" banners were very prominent. Seems one of the policemen died and three others very critical.

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