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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #20

    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Wed Aug 26, 2015 2:00 pm

    Flagship Victory wrote:Okay so where is Zackarchenko now? I think Zackarchenko needs to be careful. If he does hold his own local elections on October 18 in violation of Minsk 2, he might end up dead killed by GRU just like what happened to Bednov and Mozgovoi.

    Zackarchenko mentioned setting up arms industry in Donbas to stop relying on Russia for arms. Zackarchenko does not share Putin's vision of staying as part of Ukraine.

    Zakharchenko is Moscow's man
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    Post  Erk Wed Aug 26, 2015 2:20 pm

    higurashihougi wrote:Not 100% relevant but the Divine F-22 is going to be deployed in Europe against Evil Putin...

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/08/24/us-usa-airforce-f-idUSKCN0QT2AM20150824

    S-300 prepare. Cool

    Or shoot it with an RPG on the ground. Their stealth is not very good when they are parked.
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    Post  higurashihougi Wed Aug 26, 2015 4:18 pm

    My question: where is that 9000 Russian troops ?

    http://www.unian.info/war/1077693-ato-press-center-almost-9000-russian-troops-33000-militants-in-donbas.html
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    Post  Erk Wed Aug 26, 2015 4:38 pm

    higurashihougi wrote:My question: where is that 9000 Russian troops ?

    http://www.unian.info/war/1077693-ato-press-center-almost-9000-russian-troops-33000-militants-in-donbas.html

    Considering most people will be speaking Russian, and he is not going to find Russian uniforms to distinguish any Russian troops, the whole story sounds unprovable once again. I bet he can't even distinguish between a foreign volunteer and troops.
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    Post  JohninMK Wed Aug 26, 2015 4:46 pm

    The bit relevant to Ukraine in Nuland's interview by TASS

    That said, we do want to be able to communicate clearly with Russia and we do want to cooperate where we can. But we also have to be clear when we don't think that Russia is living up to its commitments. And we currently do not think that Russia is doing all that it can to implement its own obligations under the Minsk agreements.

    - What, specifically?

    - With regards to Minsk? First of all, in the last couple of weeks Russia has mounted a massive public relations campaign aimed at blaming Ukraine for violations of the ceasefire when OSCE evidence and our own intelligence indicate that the vast majority of attack on the line of contact are being initiated from separatists-held territory across the line into Ukrainian-held territory with the full support of Russian experts and equipment.

    It is our concern that, as we saw in January 2015, Russia is fanning the flames of aggression by separatists, at the same time that it's blaming the victim. And you'll remember that when we saw this tactic in January it was preparatory to the land grabs at Donetsk airport and at Debaltsevo by combined Russian-separatists forces. So we are worried that we are seeing same kind of pressure and intimidation again and that's why you are see us speaking out about it, expressing our concern.

    And while we were very glad to see President Poroshenko, Chancellor Merkel and President Holland meeting in Berlin to talk about how we can revitalize Minsk and we hope that that will lead to a strong Normandy-format conversations.

    We really believe now that if Moscow believes in Minsk, if Donetsk and Luhansk self-proclaimed leaders believe in Minsk, now is the time to prove it on the ground. Because the level of violence is dangerous and unacceptable.


    It is towards the end at http://tass.ru/en/world/816555
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    Post  Erk Wed Aug 26, 2015 4:52 pm

    JohninMK wrote:The bit relevant to Ukraine in Nuland's interview by TASS

    That said, we do want to be able to communicate clearly with Russia and we do want to cooperate where we can. But we also have to be clear when we don't think that Russia is living up to its commitments. And we currently do not think that Russia is doing all that it can to implement its own obligations under the Minsk agreements.

    - What, specifically?

    - With regards to Minsk? First of all, in the last couple of weeks Russia has mounted a massive public relations campaign aimed at blaming Ukraine for violations of the ceasefire when OSCE evidence and our own intelligence indicate that the vast majority of attack on the line of contact are being initiated from separatists-held territory across the line into Ukrainian-held territory with the full support of Russian experts and equipment.

    It is our concern that, as we saw in January 2015, Russia is fanning the flames of aggression by separatists, at the same time that it's blaming the victim. And you'll remember that when we saw this tactic in January it was preparatory to the land grabs at Donetsk airport and at Debaltsevo by combined Russian-separatists forces. So we are worried that we are seeing same kind of pressure and intimidation again and that's why you are see us speaking out about it, expressing our concern.

    And while we were very glad to see President Poroshenko, Chancellor Merkel and President Holland meeting in Berlin to talk about how we can revitalize Minsk and we hope that that will lead to a strong Normandy-format conversations.

    We really believe now that if Moscow believes in Minsk, if Donetsk and Luhansk self-proclaimed leaders believe in Minsk, now is the time to prove it on the ground.  Because the level of violence is dangerous and unacceptable.


    It is towards the end at http://tass.ru/en/world/816555

    She obviously didn't pay attention to Poroshenko's speech about "No more pacifism" the other day, beating the drums of war in his army uniform.

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    Post  Khepesh Wed Aug 26, 2015 4:53 pm

    Unconfirmed reports of RPG-18 fired into cafe "Cesar" in Slavyansk. If true then more likely caused by drunken ukrops, and there is some chat that this is being seen as "hooliganism". Report originates from secretary of the city council, Oleg Zontov.

    Edit: Confirmed, with photos in the report. No casualties. This is the first report and police call it "hooliganism", in a later report they change this to ask if it is terrorism or hooliganism. Perhaps by the end of the day they will blame Putin himself.....
    http://slavgorod.com.ua/News/Article/2950
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    Post  higurashihougi Wed Aug 26, 2015 5:22 pm

    Seems interesting, you know. Cool

    TASS wrote:- Can I ask you a visa question. It's about Valentina Matvienko, the Chairwoman of the Russian Federation Council...

    - Yes, I saw some false information about that...

    - But on the other hand, it's widely expected that you wouldn't grant her visa.

    - As the Embassy said, we have not yet made a formal decision. She is subject to visa ban because she's sanctioned under US sanctions. So. it's a question of the purpose of her visit. US sanctions apply to a business done in the US with the US, so the question is whether this US business or whether this is a UN business. We'll be making a decision shortly.

    - It's the Inter-Parliamentary Union, an international organization. Twisted Evil Twisted Evil

    - I think we will let the US Embassy inform her in coming days.
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    Post  Rodinazombie Wed Aug 26, 2015 5:41 pm

    JohninMK wrote:The bit relevant to Ukraine in Nuland's interview by TASS

    That said, we do want to be able to communicate clearly with Russia and we do want to cooperate where we can. But we also have to be clear when we don't think that Russia is living up to its commitments. And we currently do not think that Russia is doing all that it can to implement its own obligations under the Minsk agreements.

    - What, specifically?

    - With regards to Minsk? First of all, in the last couple of weeks Russia has mounted a massive public relations campaign aimed at blaming Ukraine for violations of the ceasefire when OSCE evidence and our own intelligence indicate that the vast majority of attack on the line of contact are being initiated from separatists-held territory across the line into Ukrainian-held territory with the full support of Russian experts and equipment.

    It is our concern that, as we saw in January 2015, Russia is fanning the flames of aggression by separatists, at the same time that it's blaming the victim. And you'll remember that when we saw this tactic in January it was preparatory to the land grabs at Donetsk airport and at Debaltsevo by combined Russian-separatists forces. So we are worried that we are seeing same kind of pressure and intimidation again and that's why you are see us speaking out about it, expressing our concern.

    And while we were very glad to see President Poroshenko, Chancellor Merkel and President Holland meeting in Berlin to talk about how we can revitalize Minsk and we hope that that will lead to a strong Normandy-format conversations.

    We really believe now that if Moscow believes in Minsk, if Donetsk and Luhansk self-proclaimed leaders believe in Minsk, now is the time to prove it on the ground.  Because the level of violence is dangerous and unacceptable.


    It is towards the end at http://tass.ru/en/world/816555

    I dont condone violence against women,but for the amount of damage and lives lost caused by this creature i would happily see her strung up with piano wire. Her lies disgust me.

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    Post  Flagship Victory Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:18 pm

    2 Maidan soldiers KIA and 10 Maidan soldiers WIA yesterday cheers
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    Post  Flagship Victory Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:19 pm

    World Bank is loaning Maidan 500 million USD for war
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    Post  Flagship Victory Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:22 pm

    par far wrote:
    Flagship Victory wrote:France and Germany threaten Zacharchenko not obeying Ukraine local elections in October. We know Zackarchenko will never carry out Ukraine elections in October. All hell will break loose in October.

    http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-says-eu-ready-toughen-stance-against-russia-174539192.html


    In every one your posts you mention "elections, elections elections", did you consider that there a plan in place by the NAF and Russia.

    The October elections lies at the heart of Minsk 2. Because the October elections will fail, so too will Minsk 2. Why did you think they put elections in October in Minsk 2? To give both sides enough time to prepare for war in October.
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    Post  par far Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:27 pm

    Flagship Victory wrote:
    par far wrote:
    Flagship Victory wrote:France and Germany threaten Zacharchenko not obeying Ukraine local elections in October. We know Zackarchenko will never carry out Ukraine elections in October. All hell will break loose in October.

    http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-says-eu-ready-toughen-stance-against-russia-174539192.html


    In every one your posts you mention "elections, elections elections", did you consider that there a plan in place by the NAF and Russia.

    The October elections lies at the heart of Minsk 2. Because the October elections will fail, so too will Minsk 2. Why did you think they put elections in October in Minsk 2? To give both sides enough time to prepare for war in October.


    I think something will happen before then or Moscow will have a plan for the October elections.
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    Post  Flagship Victory Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:28 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    Flagship Victory wrote:Okay so where is Zackarchenko now? I think Zackarchenko needs to be careful. If he does hold his own local elections on October 18 in violation of Minsk 2, he might end up dead killed by GRU just like what happened to Bednov and Mozgovoi.

    Zackarchenko mentioned setting up arms industry in Donbas to stop relying on Russia for arms. Zackarchenko does not share Putin's vision of staying as part of Ukraine.

    Zakharchenko is Moscow's man

    On the contrary. Zackarchenko is a true hero. A Russian nationalist. He personally takes part in every battle. He even got WIA. He is NOT Moscow's man. Putin wants Donbas to be part of Ukraine. Zackarchenko wants Donbas to be independent from Ukraine.
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    Post  Neutrality Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:32 pm

    Car of deputy secretary of the Ministry of Education was shot at by a drunken "spetsnazovets" from security group "Titan" which falls under MOI. They are trying to investigate why the soldier is in Kiev when he should be officially in Dobass.

    http://lenta.ru/news/2015/08/26/strelba/
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    Post  Cowboy's daughter Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:06 pm

    DNI authorities announced the list of war criminals in Kiev
    Photo: Paul Pakhomenko / Zumapress / Global Look

    http://lenta.ru/news/2015/08/26/dnr26/

    Leaders of breakaway Donetsk People's Republic (DNI) has promised to publish a list of the representatives of the Ukrainian authorities and law enforcement agencies, which, according to militia, committed war crimes. The deputy commander of the Ministry of Defense Corps DNI Eduard Eduard Basurin, reports news agency Donetsk.

    "All Ukrainian criminals from private to commander and the so-called president will be responsible for death and destruction of our cities," - said the representative of the self-proclaimed republic. According to him, it will also be published the list of war crimes themselves Kyiv (according to the militia) and the DNI intend to file relevant claims in international courts.


    August 24 Eduard Basurin reported that the security forces continue to fight for a week and released on the territory controlled by the militia, more than a thousand shells. He said that the attacks were carried out multiple rocket launchers, artillery, tanks and mortars.

    The Ukrainian side, in turn, also said that the DNI violates truce. Since August 25, representatives of the headquarters of the NGO "Defense of Mariupol" reported that Donetsk militia fired three times per day neighborhood of Mariupol.

    Kiev authorities since April last year carried out a military operation against the militia of Donetsk and Lugansk self-proclaimed People's Republic. The parties have repeatedly declared a truce, which led to a decrease in the intensity of military operations, but not to their complete cessation. According to the UN, for all the conflict from both sides were killed almost 7,000 people, another 17,000 injured.
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    Post  Cowboy's daughter Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:05 pm

    Powerful video about Donbas and Donetsk defenders: My open hand turned into a fist!




    It says:

    Published on Jun 25, 2015

    The famous song "Cuckoo" by 90's band Kino (in the video, sung by Polina Gagarina) can be interpreted in many ways, but I've always thought it referred to the 14th century battle of Kulikovo -which many consider an event that forged the modern Russian nation, both politically and spiritually

    When Chengis Khan organized the nomadic Mongol and Tatar tribes into a highly disciplined force in the 13th century, it turned out that all other nations have already become civilized and complacent, and no one could stand up to hardy men that rode horses before they could walk and trained to hold a bow before they could ride. The Golden Horde smashed the huge Chinese and Persian empires, forever changing the fate of the world.
    When Mongols reached Russia, the Russian Princes were busy squabbling among brothers and did not manage to unite in time. "The strong and the brave stood firm in the field - and died...".
    Russians passed under the Mongol yoke, many were driven off as slaves and the rest had to pay tribute to foreign overlords. "Our sweet freedom, where are you now? ... It was good with you, and bad without you. ..."
    After a century of oppression, Prince Dmitry of Moscow rose up against the Khan and rallied all free men to his banner. All Russian princedoms forgot their differences and joined. By that time, many formerly Russian lands were ruled by Lithuanians or other rulers loyal to the Khan - "few still remember, of firm body and mind"; but even there, many broke with their masters and came to Dmitry's aid.
    Knowing that the Khan personally came to punish the rebels and his army still outnumbered the Russians two to one, Dmitry put his army with their backs to a river, so they could not retreat. Old songs speak of 300,000 Tatars against 150,000 Russians, but modern historic estimates put the numbers at around 125,000 Tatars against 60,000 Russians.
    For comparison, one of the largest European battles of the time, Poitiers, that nearly destroyed France, involved 6,000 English troops fighting 11,000 French.
    The fighting went on for most of the day, with both sides taking very heavy losses. Prince Dmitry gave his armor to his retainer, and fought as a common knight himself; the retainer was cut down, and the Grand Prince heavily wounded. When, in the end, Russian infantry started giving ground, hidden Russian knights suddenly charged out of a forest and "rolled" the Mongol line, leading to a general rout; the Mongol army was destroyed, and the Khan soon got assassinated by a rival.
    This impossible feat of beating an empire that conquered half the known world is said to have forged the Russian nation - soldiers came onto Kulikovo field as men of Princedoms of Tver, Suzdal, Rostov, Yaroslavl, Polotsk, Murom, Smolensk, Ryazan... and left as men of Russia.
    This scenario repeated several times afterward:
    Early 17th century (so-called "Time of Troubles"), the last Rurikid Tsar died, state largely collapsed and Poles installed an impostor on the throne - a minor noble Pozharsky and a merchant Minin called up a people's militia and drove them out
    Napoleon's invasion of 1812 - the army that took over Europe collapsed due to being unable to break the Russian army (battle of Borodino - the bloodiest day of fighting in human history and a draw) and Russian commoners attacking its supply lines.
    And of course the Nazi invasion of USSR, when Nazis encircled and destroyed the professional Soviet army in the blitzkrieg, only to be faced with an endless stream of volunteers replacing those that fell (see more in footnotes to this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duryV...)
    This same spirit is what drives the republican forces in Donbass now: initially very heavily outnumbered and outgunned, they held out through the first summer facing objectively impossible odds, stopping modern tanks with obsolete WWII anti-tank rifles, etc. ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPw--...). It is also worth noting that many of the militiamen are men in their 40s and 50s, who are propelled by the Soviet ideology of duty, honor, and protecting their homeland, whereas some younger men consider Western values of consumerism more to their liking.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_...
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_of...
    https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Battl...
    PS. One other note: "Tell me, cuckoo. Count time." refers to the Russian superstition that the repetitive call of the cuckoo tells the listener how many years one has left to live.
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    Post  JohninMK Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:28 pm

    Ah, now about this not dealing with Russia business. My highlight

    The head of Ukraine's helicopter engine manufacturer, Motor Sich, came to the Moscow Air Show with a stand, as well executives from Ukraine's other aerospace manufacturer, Antonov, according to the business daily Vedomosti.

    Despite political tensions and a Ukrainian ban on most technological exports to Russia, Ukraine's aerospace industry still participated in the MAKS-2015 air show on an unofficial basis, business daily Vedomosti reported.

    The head of engine manufacturer Motor Sich, Vyacheslav Boguslayev was present at the airshow, where the company's Russian branch was featured at a stand. Ukraine's other major aerospace manufacturer, Antonov, was not present at the air show, although its executives were seen attending, sources told the newspaper.

    Russia's military expects to put over 250 planes and helicopters into service in 2015, despite limits on helicopter engine imports. According to commander of the Russian Air Force Viktor Bondarev, some of the shipments may even come ahead of schedule.

    "We should receive over 250 planes and helicopters this year. And there are no doubts that we will receive this equipment from the industry," Bondarev told RIA Novosti.

    A source in Russia's Rostec told Vedomosti that Russian Helicopters expects to sign another $100 million contract to buy Motor Sich helicopter engines in 2016, as the company's previous $1 billion three-year contract expires in 2015. The full-scale production of the TV3-117 engines necessary for Russian helicopters is expected to begin in 2017.


    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150826/1026225719/russia-ukraine-maks-manufacturers-aerospace-helicopters.html#ixzz3jw2UC5Bx
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    Post  JohninMK Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:53 pm

    The more time that passes, the more accurate become the figures.

    KIEV, August 26 /TASS/. According to the temporary investigation commission set up to investigate the encirclement of Ukrainian troops near Ilovaisk in August-September 2014, the death toll from the Ilovaisk tragedy has reached a thousand people, Andriy Senchenko, the commission’s head, told a news conference in Kiev on Wednesday. "Our commission has managed to make only indirect assessment of the losses in all the episodes of the Ilovaisk events. The death toll amounts to 1,000 people," Senchenko said. "In order to be honest about the losses, every military unit that took part in various stages of the Ilovaisk operation should give an answer to the following questions: how many servicemen died directly on the battlefield; how many troopers died of wounds in hospitals and how many are missing," Senchenko explained.

    On August 20, Ukraine’s Prosecutor General’s Office announced the names of 366 Ukrainian servicemen and militiamen who died in the so-called "Ilovaisk pocket "(encirclement) in the area of security operation in eastern Ukraine last year.

    Earlier, Ukraine’s Chief Military Prosecutor Anatoly Matios said the prosecutors had extended the time of investigation into the mass death of Ukrainian troops near Ilovaisk. Matios explained that the investigators were planning to check once again the legality of actions of the Ukrainian armed forces command, including Chief of the General Staff Viktor Muzhenko, and commanders in various sectors of the security operation.

    The Ukrainian Armed Forces General Staff noted that a full analytical report on military personnel losses near Ilovaisk in August-September 2014 was expected to be published before the end of August.

    Fierce battles between the Ukrainian military and the militias of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR) were underway near Ilovaisk in the second half of August — early September 2014. The Ukrainian troops occupied part of the city, which was then encircled by the DPR militias. The Ukrainian military suffered heavy losses when they tried to break the encirclement on the way out of Ilovaisk — from 400 to 1,000 people, according to various estimates.
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    Post  Project Canada Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:56 pm


    A source in Russia's Rostec told Vedomosti that Russian Helicopters expects to sign another $100 million contract to buy Motor Sich helicopter engines in 2016, as the company's previous $1

    I hope this is just temporary while waiting for Russian made engines to fully replace the Ukrop ones
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    Post  Flagship Victory Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:05 pm

    Project Canada wrote:

    A source in Russia's Rostec told Vedomosti that Russian Helicopters expects to sign another $100 million contract to buy Motor Sich helicopter engines in 2016, as the company's previous $1

    I hope this is just temporary while waiting for Russian made engines to fully replace the Ukrop ones


    What Russia does is pipe dream. Maidan is fascist. Maidan will never supply a single bullet to Russia let alone helicopter engines.
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    Post  Flagship Victory Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:09 pm

    Russia has never done a single regime change and has no experience doing it. Russia's expertise is frozen conflict while the US's expertise is regime change. When the Orange revolution happened in 2004 Russia should not have pressured Yanukovych to give up. 4 years of brain washing led to Maidan in 2013. Putin has been extremely unlucky. Maidan happened just 1 year after his election in 2012.
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    Post  Cowboy's daughter Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:14 pm

    Gorlovka Report: 1 civ. killed 5 injured 3 Apt. buildings 3 schools hit by Ukraine shelling


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    Post  Cowboy's daughter Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:30 pm


    Russia, Europe agree on developing ExoMars project
    Non-political
    August 26, 16:18 UTC+3
    Certain political tension exists today between Russia, Europe and America over the Ukraine events and the ESA considers it important to develop and strengthen cooperation in the space sphere

    http://tass.ru/en/non-political/816654

    ZHUKOVSKY /Moscow Region/, August 26. /TASS/. Russia’s Federal Space Corporation (Roscosmos) and the European Space Agency (ESA) have signed an agreement on further developing the ExoMars project, Roscosmos spokesman Igor Burenkov said on Wednesday.
    Cowboy's daughter
    Cowboy's daughter


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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #20 - Page 24 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #20

    Post  Cowboy's daughter Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:57 pm

    The videos I watched on youtube about Ukrainians in Einsatzgruppen Death Brigades are no longer online.

    but this is online
    I haven't watched it yet, but I imagine it's

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    + 18

    http://www.jewishfilm.org/Catalogue/films/einsatzgruppen.htm

    this may have been the videos I watched, because there was 2 parts

    http://jewishfilmfestivals.org/films/2009/einsatzgruppen-death-brigades/

    & the one above may be the same, except in one part.

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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #20 - Page 24 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #20

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