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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #20

    Godric
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    Post  Godric Sat Aug 22, 2015 8:05 pm

    Greek BMP with mounted ZU-23-2

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #20 - Page 17 1628520_-_main
    KoTeMoRe
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    Post  KoTeMoRe Sat Aug 22, 2015 8:14 pm

    Godric wrote:Greek BMP with mounted ZU-23-2

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #20 - Page 17 1628520_-_main

    As I told you, your idea was sound, only Shilka's were not the most cost effective options out there. thumbsup

    And then you have Dem Best Koreans with the OTT KPV/ZPU-4 bling thing.The Situation in the Ukraine. #20 - Page 17 North-korean-women-of-war

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    Post  Werewolf Sat Aug 22, 2015 8:24 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Godric wrote:Greek BMP with mounted ZU-23-2

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #20 - Page 17 1628520_-_main

    As I told you, your idea was sound, only Shilka's were not the most cost effective options out there. thumbsup

    But the best solution they have come up with under the circumstances and rapid need for better performance vehicles in Grozny. It provided at least to some degree protection against small arms fire while such trucks or tracked vehicles which strapped a ZSU-23-2 do not provide any protection from small arms fire for the ZSU-23-2 user. It was quite effective in the Afganski version aswell.

    KoTeMoRe
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    Post  KoTeMoRe Sat Aug 22, 2015 8:35 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Godric wrote:Greek BMP with mounted ZU-23-2

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #20 - Page 17 1628520_-_main

    As I told you, your idea was sound, only Shilka's were not the most cost effective options out there. thumbsup

    But the best solution they have come up with under the circumstances and rapid need for better performance vehicles in Grozny. It provided at least to some degree protection against small arms fire while such trucks or tracked vehicles which strapped a ZSU-23-2 do not provide any protection from small arms fire for the ZSU-23-2 user. It was quite effective in the Afganski version aswell.


    At the expense of raw hulls for obvious reasons. Furthermore the Shilka is a blind cyclop in urban warfare and overly loud to the crew inside. With those trucks you can actualy hear what shoots in vicinity (AND interaction with troops is easier). Plus again losing a radar dish or losing a trigger finger isn't quite the same.

    Granted it worked in Chechnya but at very specific situations.

    The MTLB ZSU's were the ones first bolted in Afghanistan for obvious reasons, since Mujis didn't fly. Shilkas were next because of the random stray bullet would kill the gunners and the cunts couldn't aim their B40's for shit.
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    Post  Werewolf Sat Aug 22, 2015 9:08 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    At the expense of raw hulls for obvious reasons. Furthermore the Shilka is a blind cyclop in urban warfare and overly loud to the crew inside. With those trucks you can actualy hear what shoots in vicinity (AND interaction with troops is easier). Plus again losing a radar dish or losing a trigger finger isn't quite the same.

    Granted it worked in Chechnya but at very specific situations.

    The MTLB ZSU's were the ones first bolted in Afghanistan for obvious reasons, since Mujis didn't fly. Shilkas were next because of the random stray bullet would kill the gunners and the cunts couldn't aim their B40's for shit.

    Do not know about that or how loud it is for the occupant of the vehicle, however communication was indeed not the best for such duties to act as anti personal vehicles due their designs which were not meant for that job.

    Yes, they worked in Chechnya in very specific situations which were after few losses of bmp's evaluated of the current situations of the battlefield and if they could risk trying to use Shilka's for the attempts to shift the strength's into their favors.

    The Shilka Afghaniski ZSU-23-4 that was later used in Afghanistan was i think upgraded with optical sights specifically for ground targets for long and short ranges that were often used trying to shoot at Taliban hide outs in mountains or trying to spray into their convoys.

    KoTeMoRe
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    Post  KoTeMoRe Sat Aug 22, 2015 9:39 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    At the expense of raw hulls for obvious reasons. Furthermore the Shilka is a blind cyclop in urban warfare and overly loud to the crew inside. With those trucks you can actualy hear what shoots in vicinity (AND interaction with troops is easier). Plus again losing a radar dish or losing a trigger finger isn't quite the same.

    Granted it worked in Chechnya but at very specific situations.

    The MTLB ZSU's were the ones first bolted in Afghanistan for obvious reasons, since Mujis didn't fly. Shilkas were next because of the random stray bullet would kill the gunners and the cunts couldn't aim their B40's for shit.

    Do not know about that or how loud it is for the occupant of the vehicle, however communication was indeed not the best for such duties to act as anti personal vehicles due their designs which were not meant for that job.

    Yes, they worked in Chechnya in very specific situations which were after few losses of bmp's evaluated of the current situations of the battlefield and if they could risk trying to use Shilka's for the attempts to shift the strength's into their favors.

    The Shilka Afghaniski ZSU-23-4 that was later used in Afghanistan was i think upgraded with optical sights specifically for ground targets for long and short ranges that were often used trying to shoot at Taliban hide outs in mountains or trying to spray into their convoys.


    They were mostly gotten rid off their dishes and also applied the same sights as the BMP-2D (unfortunately in most cases the sights were'nt of much help because of poor co-zero with former Shilka sights. That was solved by either adding ...back the radar and using is to pinpoint "ground clutter" which was also the weak part of the system or relying on IR rather than optics to scout and shoot.

    Soviets once again proved to be very quick learners.
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #20 - Page 17 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #20

    Post  KoTeMoRe Sat Aug 22, 2015 9:56 pm



    Massive Ukrop non-sense brainwashing. See Soviet-Era standards with clownesque NATO-style outfit. It looks worse than Iraqi troops. Sad...
    auslander
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    Post  auslander Sat Aug 22, 2015 10:13 pm

    Whistling in the dark as they walk past the graveyard.
    KoTeMoRe
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    Post  KoTeMoRe Sat Aug 22, 2015 10:14 pm

    auslander wrote:Whistling in the dark as they walk past the graveyard.

    That's sad indeed...
    auslander
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    Post  auslander Sat Aug 22, 2015 10:28 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    auslander wrote:Whistling in the dark as they walk past the graveyard.

    That's sad indeed...

    I have less than zero sympathy for anyone in 404 over the age of 16 and under the age of 60. I can not with an open heart wish on them what they have done to ours simply because so many innocents will suffer, but remove the children and pensioners and I would like nothing better than to see Kiev and Lemberg reduced to smoldering rubble.
    KoTeMoRe
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    Post  KoTeMoRe Sat Aug 22, 2015 10:38 pm

    auslander wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    auslander wrote:Whistling in the dark as they walk past the graveyard.

    That's sad indeed...

    I have less than zero sympathy for anyone in 404 over the age of 16 and under the age of 60. I can not with an open heart wish on them what they have done to ours simply because so many innocents will suffer, but remove the children and pensioners and I would like nothing better than to see Kiev and Lemberg reduced to smoldering rubble.

    It's sad nevertheless. There's no joyful punishment in a normal world. Combat is something else...All is fair in Love and War.
    Neutrality
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    Post  Neutrality Sun Aug 23, 2015 12:49 am

    A bit off-topic:

    The hysteria is in full gear right now in the Baltic states. Estonian Ministry of Justice proposed to create a tribunal for war crimes during the communist regime. These people are fucking nuts. Why not go back to the 15th century and do the same? Or let's redo the Nuremberg Trial while we are at it. I already knew the Baltic states were a special kind of retarded but this is completely FUBAR. Why don't they investigate why their youth is massively abandoning their home countries instead?
    KoTeMoRe
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    Post  KoTeMoRe Sun Aug 23, 2015 1:14 am

    Neutrality wrote:A bit off-topic:

    The hysteria is in full gear right now in the Baltic states. Estonian Ministry of Justice proposed to create a tribunal for war crimes during the communist regime. These people are fucking nuts. Why not go back to the 15th century and do the same? Or let's redo the Nuremberg Trial while we are at it. I already knew the Baltic states were a special kind of retarded but this is completely FUBAR. Why don't they investigate why their youth is massively abandoning their home countries instead?

    Naaah, let them have it. Those would die or are dead anyway. Then what? Retarded people will do retarded things to stay relevant. Every Publicity is good Publicity for attention whores.
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Sun Aug 23, 2015 1:38 am

    Neutrality wrote:A bit off-topic:

    The hysteria is in full gear right now in the Baltic states. Estonian Ministry of Justice proposed to create a tribunal for war crimes during the communist regime. These people are fucking nuts. Why not go back to the 15th century and do the same? Or let's redo the Nuremberg Trial while we are at it. I already knew the Baltic states were a special kind of retarded but this is completely FUBAR. Why don't they investigate why their youth is massively abandoning their home countries instead?

    While there at it, Baltic buthurt boys might investigate disappearance of their entire Jewish population back in early 40's.

    Someone over there composted Jews so fast, they made SS look like gimps with cerebral palsy.

    I dunno, but this seems like bigger case to me... dunno

    Also, pointing fingers at Communists will be of great comfort five decades from now when their population dies off.
    I guess that will also be blamed on Ruskies.
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    Post  franco Sun Aug 23, 2015 1:54 am

    The latest supply of equipment for the Ukrainian Armed Forces;
    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1442794.html
    KoTeMoRe
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    Post  KoTeMoRe Sun Aug 23, 2015 1:58 am

    franco wrote:The latest supply of equipment for the Ukrainian Armed Forces;
    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1442794.html

    looks like our most favourite racoon was right. This looks like the Potemkin village that Turchynov paraded back at Donetsk...what really kills me is the T80B's Jesus Christ. That's the very bottom of the barrel.
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    Post  franco Sun Aug 23, 2015 2:01 am

    Stephen Cohen's latest take on the Ukrainians and the West;

    http://sputniknews.com/analysis/20150820/1025983307.html
    Erk
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    Post  Erk Sun Aug 23, 2015 6:07 am


    New gear for UAF
    eehnie
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    Post  eehnie Sun Aug 23, 2015 7:10 am

    franco wrote:Stephen Cohen's latest take on the Ukrainians and the West;

    http://sputniknews.com/analysis/20150820/1025983307.html

    At this point I would say that the US is happy in overall terms with the result of the Coup in Ukraine. They think they advanced from the previous situation. It seems to me that the US is comfortable with the Ukranian warfare being destroyed in a fight with Novorrussia or even with Russia, trying to advance toward the East, in order to avoid the use of this warfare vs the NATO countries someday. Also I would say that the US is confortable with Ukraine out of the EU and the NATO, despite they want it in the long term. While Ukraine is involved in a war, or has not control of its entire nominal territory, the country is not allowed to join both, and no-one in the NATO or in the EU is interested in to break the internal rules for it.

    What makes the US unhappy is:
    - The low losses of Novorrussia.
    - To dominate not Crimea, in order to have not obstacles toward the oil of the Caucasus.
    - The fact that Russia advanced too, increasing its size, in population, economically, and in warfare with the addition of Crimea and without loses from defending Novorrussia.
    - The fact that Russia showed more military competence than they expected.
    - The alliances in Asia.

    While the war remains local in Novorrussia, despite going bad for Ukraine, even losing some territory, the US will not be more involved. Poroshenko is dreaming to have the US, Canada, their allies in the Pacific Ocean and Europe back him in his calls for full war, but no-one will follow him unless Russia does a big abuse of power, as example, invading all Ukraine. In fact no-one of these countries care really about Ukraine being ruined. They only care about Russia advancing too much.

    If the US want to become more involved, it seems that they would need to face 3 wars at same time, or 3 sides of the same war:
    - Siria + Irak (the most interesting part for the US)
    - Korea
    - Ukraine + Novorrussia + Transdnistria

    How would the US deal with this? Not easy.
    higurashihougi
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    Post  higurashihougi Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:07 am

    My sincere sorry if this has been posted

    https://www.rt.com/news/313017-ukrainians-russians-brothers-poroshenko/

    Russians & Ukrainians not brothers, Ukrainian president claims
    Khepesh
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    Post  Khepesh Sun Aug 23, 2015 11:10 am

    There are rumors that Zakharchenko has dissapeared from his residence with his family and that the residence is not even guarded now. The rumors originated from this ukrops "Goebbels" site http://novosti.dn.ua/details/258121/
    If he has moved then I would say that while ukrops would see it as bad PR for them if they hit his residence while Minsk is still supposedly in effect, when war occurs he will be a legitimate target for them. This story is now being picked up by Russian media, Lenta for instance. I suspect that if Zakharchenko has moved, it is to avoid possibility of Tochka, Pion or drone attack on him and his family when the offensive begins. DNR official sources are silent on this.
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    Post  Regular Sun Aug 23, 2015 11:20 am

    If he gets killed it wont change anything on the ground.
    ExBeobachter1987
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    Post  ExBeobachter1987 Sun Aug 23, 2015 11:31 am

    Regular wrote:If he gets killed it wont change anything on the ground.

    What if he gets killed by people from "his" side?
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    Post  Erk Sun Aug 23, 2015 12:11 pm

    ExBeobachter1987 wrote:
    Regular wrote:If he gets killed it wont change anything on the ground.

    What if he gets killed by people from "his" side?

    Then the world will know there were spies.

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    Post  medo Sun Aug 23, 2015 12:14 pm

    Khepesh wrote:There are rumors that Zakharchenko has dissapeared from his residence with his family and that the residence is not even guarded now. The rumors originated from this ukrops "Goebbels" site  http://novosti.dn.ua/details/258121/
    If he has moved then I would say that while ukrops would see it as bad PR for them if they hit his residence while Minsk is still supposedly in effect, when war occurs he will be a legitimate target for them. This story is now being picked up by Russian media, Lenta for instance. I suspect that if Zakharchenko has moved, it is to avoid possibility of Tochka, Pion or drone attack on him and his family when the offensive begins. DNR official sources are silent on this.

    If Ukrainian offensive is expected, than it is logical, that Zaharchenko, who is c-in-c of Donetsk armed forces, went from peace time residence to war time military command post. You could be sure, that it is not in the same location and that they will not tell, where it is.

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