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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #20

    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Thu Aug 20, 2015 2:51 pm

    Khepesh wrote:Annanews have put forward a scenario in which Obama Merkel and Hollande will agree that Poroshenko launches the offensive, but then send in NATO "peacekeepers" after ukrops have complained that "Russian" forces have used chemical weapons against them, depleted uranium etc. The scenario sees NATO forces, presumably only French and German being visible, as this will be less antagonistic that Americans, advancing into Donbass at various points from Novoazovsk to Lugansk, and primarily on the coat-tails of ukrops tank thrusts that have been stalled by "Russian use of chemical weapons". The calculation being that Russia will see it as not viable to engage with NATO troops, same as what happened in Kosovo with the stand off at Prishtina, and will walk away.
    .......................


    Like you sad, slim chance...

    Only reason NATO/Russia war did not start in Kosovo is because general Michael Jackson told Wesley Clark to go hump himself when Clark ordered him to engage Russian troopers. Good man.



    Khepesh wrote:!!!! Buratino seen in Snezhnoe, photo evidence!

    Spoiler:

    lol1  lol1  lol1

    You're a good raccoon, have a little gift:

    Spoiler:

    Use it in good health. thumbsup
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    Post  sepheronx Thu Aug 20, 2015 3:05 pm

    I say there is a very slim chance of that. Cause I highly doubt the popularity back at home of dead German or French "peacekeepers" and Russians could engage them because they are not official troops and lack of evidence will prevent them from really throwing a fit back at Russia.
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    Post  Ghoster Thu Aug 20, 2015 3:26 pm

    Commander of VSN "Ryazan" Edward Gilazov, was unofficially reported to be dead today, after announcement of his arrest. His personal VK page has also been deleted.

    El Murid wrote more about this today on his blog.
    http://el-murid.livejournal.com/2484584.html
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    Post  franco Thu Aug 20, 2015 3:32 pm

    Khepesh wrote:It is not surprising that with the current hightened military state and Poroshenko meeting Hollande and Merkel that people think about what will happen. This article is similar to the one by annanews, and says that it is Poroshenko's last throw of the dice, and that on 25 Aug, or soon after, Poroshenko will claim that a "large scale terrorist attack by Russian forces" is taking place, and then war. I don't really doubt it will happen, it's just the time, the date and the excuse that are not known. http://antifashist.com/item/poslednij-patron-valcmana.html#ixzz3jLkBDXIo


    With the Right Sector, Azov, Donbas, etc planning on marching in the Kiev parade, perhaps he thought it prudent to be elsewhere Smile
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    Post  Flagship Victory Thu Aug 20, 2015 4:10 pm

    Ghoster wrote:Commander of VSN "Ryazan" Edward Gilazov, was unofficially reported to be dead today, after announcement of his arrest. His personal VK page has also been deleted.

    El Murid wrote more about this today on his blog.
    http://el-murid.livejournal.com/2484584.html

    Taken out by GRU like what happened to Bednov and Mozgovoi? Shocked
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    Post  Flagship Victory Thu Aug 20, 2015 4:13 pm

    Anyone guess when the quiet phase ends and the loud phase begins?
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    Post  JohninMK Thu Aug 20, 2015 4:17 pm

    franco wrote:
    Khepesh wrote:It is not surprising that with the current hightened military state and Poroshenko meeting Hollande and Merkel that people think about what will happen. This article is similar to the one by annanews, and says that it is Poroshenko's last throw of the dice, and that on 25 Aug, or soon after, Poroshenko will claim that a "large scale terrorist attack by Russian forces" is taking place, and then war. I don't really doubt it will happen, it's just the time, the date and the excuse that are not known. http://antifashist.com/item/poslednij-patron-valcmana.html#ixzz3jLkBDXIo


    With the Right Sector, Azov, Donbas, etc planning on marching in the Kiev parade, perhaps he thought it prudent to be elsewhere Smile
    I would have thought that Poro just had to fit in with Merkel's and Hollande's diaries. He was ordered to attend and sod what was in his diary. It could, should, be a long and tough meeting.
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    Post  Flagship Victory Thu Aug 20, 2015 4:36 pm

    It is highly unusual the president of a country goes to another country's capital on a high level meeting on independence day. The timing is beyond strange. Suspect
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    Post  PapaDragon Thu Aug 20, 2015 5:27 pm


    Something just occurred to me about that brilliant plan we mentioned:

    Plan calls for German and French armies to engage Russians. Suspect

    Anyone else see some historic issues with using those two armies for this little extravaganza? pwnd
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    Post  auslander Thu Aug 20, 2015 5:51 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Something just occurred to me about that brilliant plan we mentioned:

    Plan calls for German and French armies to engage Russians. Suspect

    Anyone else see some historic issues with using those two armies for this little extravaganza?  pwnd

    Quite so, although Nappy's army was less than half French, the majority were his conquered vassals in Europe.

    The entire situation up north has a bad odor to it, very bad. The boys are up against some very good 'advisors' on the orc side and I would not put anything past them.
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    Post  JohninMK Thu Aug 20, 2015 6:19 pm

    Too dangerous to try and stop them.

    Militants from the notorious ultranationalist organization Right Sector have taken it upon themselves to become the de-facto police force in a section of the eastern Ukrainian city of Kharkiv, with local security organs seemingly powerless to stop them.

    Ukrainian media report that the militants, armed with baseball bats and other blunt objects, wearing balaclavas and featuring the distinctive red-black badges on their army fatigue uniforms, have organized themselves into 'patrols' in areas surrounding the rail terminal, located in the west-central portion of the city.

    With the city's transport police presently absent, facing reorganization, the militants have subjected the district to systematic terror, roving the streets, attacking suspected wrongdoers, and organizing group raids on businesses and shops.


    It is a big article so more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150820/1025975058/ukraine-kharkiv-right-sector-militia.html#ixzz3jNAe2pxR
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    Post  JohninMK Thu Aug 20, 2015 6:33 pm

    Forewarned.........

    MOSCOW, August 20. /TASS/. The Defense Ministry of the Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR) has information that the Ukrainian armed forces are preparing an offensive in the Donetsk Region in east Ukraine, ministry spokesman Eduard Basurin said on Thursday. "Information has been received about the plan of forthcoming actions by the Ukrainian army from a source in the Ukrainian General Staff and, no matter how strange this may seem, there are still true officers there who do not want to fight against their own people," Basurin said at a briefing in the press center of the Donetsk News Agency.

    "Kiev plans to deliver two converging blows in the direction of the settlement of Uspenka to defeat the DPR and advance to the border with Russia to eventually prevent civilians from reaching the Russian territory," Basurin said. "Along with this, two groupings [of Kiev’s forces] are intended to launch an offensive in the Donetsk direction north and south of Donetsk towards Ilovaisk, close the circle around the republic’s capital and encircle the city," the spokesman said.
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    Post  JohninMK Thu Aug 20, 2015 6:38 pm

    The pre-meeting at 'expert' level seems to have gone OK. Now for Poro' trip next week.

    KIEV, August 20. /TASS/. Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko has said Thursday that negotiations in Berlin at the level of experts in the Normandy format (Russia, Ukraine, Germany and France) were successful. "Talks at the level of experts have finished in Berlin," Poroshenko told journalists in Kiev. "We have a common position with EU on Minsk agreements and, according to information that I have, talks were successful," he said.

    A source in the Russian Embassy in Germany told TASS earlier that negotiations in the Normandy format at the level of experts in Berlin "were constructive." The sides "discussed issues connected with implementing constitutional reform in Ukraine," the source added.

    Russia was represented by Foreign Ministry’s legal department head Alexey Dronov and deputy to the Russia’s ambassador to the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) Andrey Rudenko.

    On Monday, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said that Russia is ready to hold a meeting in the Normandy format at the level of experts. "I think that it necessary because the Normandy Four [Russia, France, Germany and Ukraine] supported the agreements from February 12 which were signed by representatives of Donetsk, Luhansk and Kiev with participation of Russia and OSCE [Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe]," the foreign minister said.

    "We are ready to hold a meeting, at first at the level of experts, to put two documents on the table - Minsk’s Package of measures and those amendments to the Constitution that were adopted by the Verkhovna Rada [Ukrainian parliament], and also those documents that were adopted by the Verkhovna Rada on holding local election in Donbas and granting special status to these territories," Lavrov said. "Simply comparing [Ukrainian President] Petro Poroshenko’s commitments and what Kiev really did in the end should be very interesting," he noted.
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    Post  Flagship Victory Thu Aug 20, 2015 6:43 pm

    Is this like, the record for the longest time to implement a frigging treaty? A year later and not even the first point of ceasefire has been achieved. geek I do hope this stupid Minsk does not go into 2016.
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    Post  Werewolf Thu Aug 20, 2015 6:45 pm

    Mike E wrote:
    Werewolf wrote: What makes you think that there were any T-90's?
    Hate to re-post, but; https://tanknutstan.wordpress.com/2015/08/15/t-90-at-the-donbass/

    I highly doubt they ever actually engaged.

    I hope they did and cracked some nazis and blackwater heads aswell.
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    Post  SturmGuard Thu Aug 20, 2015 6:47 pm

    UkrOp media never ceases to amaze me. Just have a look at this guys.

    "Putin's Mordor orcs fed 100 people to pigs".   glavcom.ua/news/317782.html

    "Right Sector to become a part of SBU"    glavcom.ua/news/318678.html

    SBU "foiled 20 attacks", "dismantled 20 saboteur groups", arrested "hundreds of separatists" glavcom.ua/news/318658.html




    Black humour on my part. What level of narcotic abuse is necessary to believe in and fight for that cause? I mean, the narrative of UkrOp media is outrageous from the start.
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    Post  JohninMK Thu Aug 20, 2015 7:06 pm

    Fascinating article on the US activities in Kiev, basically running the country, from February just translated. It sounds very probable. Well worth the read and the implication is that everything in Donbas happening now and what will happen are totally under US military control. The shelling is for a purpose. If anything happens it could get very nasty very quickly.

    Everything we write here will, for certain, be closely monitored in Kiev.

    http://fortruss.blogspot.co.uk/2015/08/from-translator-by-their-very-nature.html
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    Post  SturmGuard Thu Aug 20, 2015 7:07 pm

    Werewolf wrote: I hope they did and cracked some nazis and blackwater heads aswell.

    Something tells me this AFV wreck-littered area is the definite proof. My guess is that someone got nervous with Ukrop attempts to block the famous White humanitarian convoy, so a task force including BTR-82 and T-90 vehicles was called for some pathmaking duties. UkrOp tanks destroyed in this area are for the vast majority, Bulats.

    Spoiler:
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    Post  JohninMK Thu Aug 20, 2015 7:47 pm

    JohninMK wrote:The pre-meeting at 'expert' level seems to have gone OK. Now for Poro' trip next week.

    KIEV, August 20. /TASS/. Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko has said Thursday that negotiations in Berlin at the level of experts in the Normandy format (Russia, Ukraine, Germany and France) were successful. "Talks at the level of experts have finished in Berlin," Poroshenko told journalists in Kiev. "We have a common position with EU on Minsk agreements and, according to information that I have, talks were successful," he said.

    A source in the Russian Embassy in Germany told TASS earlier that negotiations in the Normandy format at the level of experts in Berlin "were constructive." The sides "discussed issues connected with implementing constitutional reform in Ukraine," the source added.

    Russia was represented by Foreign Ministry’s legal department head Alexey Dronov and deputy to the Russia’s ambassador to the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) Andrey Rudenko.

    On Monday, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said that Russia is ready to hold a meeting in the Normandy format at the level of experts. "I think that it necessary because the Normandy Four [Russia, France, Germany and Ukraine] supported the agreements from February 12 which were signed by representatives of Donetsk, Luhansk and Kiev with participation of Russia and OSCE [Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe]," the foreign minister said.

    "We are ready to hold a meeting, at first at the level of experts, to put two documents on the table - Minsk’s Package of measures and those amendments to the Constitution that were adopted by the Verkhovna Rada [Ukrainian parliament], and also those documents that were adopted by the Verkhovna Rada on holding local election in Donbas and granting special status to these territories," Lavrov said. "Simply comparing [Ukrainian President] Petro Poroshenko’s commitments and what Kiev really did in the end should be very interesting," he noted.

    Different view on this

    BERLIN, August 20 /TASS/. Discussions at the Normandy Four (Russia, Ukraine, Germany and France) meeting in Berlin was difficult but businesslike, a European delegation source told TASS. "The discussion was not easy but it was businesslike. Everybody parted sticking to their own opinion," the source stressed.

    Alexey Dronov, the acting head of the Russian Foreign Ministry legal department, and Andrey Rudenko, Russia’s Deputy Permanent Representative to the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE), represented Russia at the Berlin consultations.
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    Post  JohninMK Thu Aug 20, 2015 7:50 pm

    The UA seems to be getting pretty organised for something and it doesn't look like a march back to Kiev for Independence Day.

    MOSCOW, August 20. /TASS/. On Thursday, August 20 the grouping of pro-Kiev armed units in eastern Ukraine totaled 90,000 men and officers, 450 tanks, 203 salvo artillery units, and five Tochka-U missile complexes, Eduard Basurin, a top official at the Defense Ministry of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic told the Donetsk News Agency.

    The troops are concentrated in four sectors - Mariupol, Donetsk, Debaltsevo, and Luhansk.

    "A total of five separate mechanized brigades, two separate tanks brigades, and air mobile brigade, an artillery brigade, and a salvo system brigade have been deployed ... to advance to Mariupol," the official, Eduard Basurin said. "All in all, this grouping has 22,500 men and officers, more than 130 tanks, more than 560 armored cars, fifty-five salvo artillery units, about 200 artillery guns and mortars, and about 720 antitank weapons."

    According to the data available to the Defense Ministry, the pro-Kiev forces have concentrated thirteen brigades one tank brigade, one air mobile, one artillery, one salvo system brigade and two air mobile brigades in the Donetsk sector. A brigade equipped with Tochka-U tactical missiles has also been deployed there.

    As many as five separate mechanized brigades, a tank brigade, three artillery brigades, and a salvo system brigade are currently located in the Debaltsevo sector. This grouping has up to 19,500 men and officers, about 70 tanks, 45 salvo artillery systems, and about 230 artillery guns and mortars.

    A grouping of four separate mechanized brigades, two artillery brigades and a salvo artillery system brigade is poised to advance towards Lugansk. It has a combined 18,000-strong manpower, about 60 tanks, about 530 infantry combat vehicles and/or armored personnel carriers, 30 multiple-launch (salvo) systems, close to 230 artillery guns and mortars and more than a thousand antimech weapons, Basurin said.

    Reconnaissance data available to the DPR defence officials suggests the Ukrainian Army commanders have pooled a considerable reserve of forces consisting of two tank, four air mobile, three artillery brigade, one airborne and one salvo artillery system brigades.
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    Post  kvs Thu Aug 20, 2015 8:02 pm

    It would be grand and likely precipitate the fall of the Kiev regime if this force of 90,000 was wiped out. It is in Russia's
    long term interests to have the Kiev NATO bootlick regime removed. The Novorussian forces must get all the assistance the
    need to facilitate this.
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    Post  Vann7 Thu Aug 20, 2015 8:27 pm

    And new Report reveals the Level of Interference that Americans have in Kiev , to boycott
    any possible loss of their control of Ukraine.. The whole country is basically in full control
    of terrorist states of North America... and the common aptitude of Ukraine politicians and
    General staff in kiev.. is a competition to see who can lick more Americans boots.. to earn
    their $$ favors.   Lets not forget the article i posted were the defense minister of Ukraine
    who was asked to resign for failing to take Donetsk and Lugansk in 2014, received a generous
    gift from "mysterious friends" of a $36 millions property in UK..  

    Here is the report that @American Eagle will love to see..how his terrorist state Government
    ,the CIA and Pentagon is fully interfering the politics in Ukraine ,to sabotage any peace solution to the Ukraine conflict.. IF a war will start.. i really Hope Russia drops a pair of iskander missiles right at the heads of (@american-Eagle heroes) ,the American CIA and his Government , terrorist working now at Ukraine SBU building ,that wear civilian suits,(to make it look they are not animals,but human beings and civilized)  for causing such much suffering to the ukrainian people and fueling the criminal war of kiev against its own people.


    "Quiet Americans" in Kiev...



    We should pay attention to the following point: if earlier Kiev was supervised mostly by high-ranking CIA officials (former and current), now this role is performed by senior US military personnel, also former and current. Almost all local politicians try to meet with Americans during their visits. Especially the ex-prime minister Yulia Tymoshenko, who dropped off the list of "those in power" and is now merely the leader of the smallest faction in the parliament. She even suggested to make Clark the chief overseer of the assistance to Ukraine from the United States. However, her "licking" was not counted, as Washington is not currently interested in her services. The boot-licking of the Kiev political elite show for US "monitors" is understandable; Americans now control approval for everything, from financial assistance, to UAF operations, and appointments in the security services, MOD, the Cabinet and the President’s Administration.
    In particular, the first deputy head of the Anti-Terrorist Center of the SBU (in charge of ATO in Donetsk and Luhansk regions) Sergey Popko was put there by the US DIA, as was the "eternal Speaker" of the ATO Andrei Lysenko. Both of them were recruited by the US military intelligence almost simultaneously, some time ago.
    Currently, almost all the analytical, organizational and military support of the Ukrainian authorities is carried out by "quiet Americans".



    http://fortruss.blogspot.ca/2015/08/from-translator-by-their-very-nature.html



    Last edited by Vann7 on Thu Aug 20, 2015 8:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  Khepesh Thu Aug 20, 2015 8:29 pm

    Uploaded today and probably very recent of ukrops tanks on the move. Presumably from Kharkov. ukrops said they would repair 200 T-80 and I am very very skeptical about that. Here we see one company and I would be surprised if they managed to field more than one battalion. First video shows Bulats, second video is T-80BV



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    Post  KoTeMoRe Thu Aug 20, 2015 8:51 pm

    Khepesh wrote:Uploaded today and probably very recent of ukrops tanks on the move. Presumably from Kharkov. ukrops said they would repair 200 T-80 and I am very very skeptical about that. Here we see one company and I would be surprised if they managed to field more than one battalion. First video shows Bulats, second video is T-80BV




    Ukrops litterally trashed the reputation of the T-64, now they're going to shit on the T-80 holy cow, these people don't understand when enough is enough. As I said before, even if they put all available engines on their t-80, they're likely to have at best about 50 tanks rolling. There haven't been new compatible engines with the t-80 since 2009.
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    Post  KoTeMoRe Thu Aug 20, 2015 9:04 pm

    SturmGuard wrote:
    Werewolf wrote: I hope they did and cracked some nazis and blackwater heads aswell.

    Something tells me this AFV wreck-littered area is the definite proof. My guess is that someone got nervous with Ukrop attempts to block the famous White humanitarian convoy, so a task force including BTR-82 and T-90 vehicles was called for some pathmaking duties. UkrOp tanks destroyed in this area are for the vast majority, Bulats.

    Spoiler:

    There is a distinctive pattern of rearguard attack all along the M04/E40, you can see the Ukrainians were hit by behind (check all the VSN hulks pointing from South to North), this was quite deliberate and probably had only anecdotical relevance to the White Convoy. That "Russian" attack had to be furious with very little contact and relied on total disbelief and disarray of Ukropitheques. One thing that seems also very weird is that Ukrainian armour seems to have been hit while trying to make a stand but on the wrong direction and nearby settlements. Therefore, IMO the scenario went like this. First a contact less battle with bait and switch from NAF, then NAF stands their ground with ATGM and Artillery, then once the Ukrops try another wave on NAF positions, T-XX scoops them from behind.

    All in all you can understand how manoeuvre warfare broke the back of this assault. Kettle was closed in very professional fashion in August with very little losses. We saw that it went a bit more haywire back in february.


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