Russian Transport Aircraft fleet (VTA)

@AMCXXL
Excellent summation and overall post. This thread started to resemble aircraft carrier thread were members were posting their personal wishes, instead of commenting on developments.

Thank you, this post really contains information about which are really happening at the moment and which planes, where, with which engines, are being built. Many thanks

Thus, the IL-76MD-90A should continue to be the only new aircraft to be built for a long time and this also in significant quantities.

AMCXXL wrote:The current trend is to send the soldiers in an airliner like the Tu-154, Tu-134, Tu-62, An-148, etc... and then send the supplies, ammunition etc... in cargo planes, it is more effective and safe

This is not a new thing and dates way back into the Soviet era. Aeroflot airliners have always been used in this role. In fact their was even a plan to convert the Tu-114 into a troopship transport plane. It was known as the Tu-114TS and would have been able to lift nearly 300 troops at a time! However it was never realized but the normal Tu-114, and all other Aeroflot airliners was used in this role, and as you've mentioned it is still being practiced today.

However the need to drop paratroopers and their equipment rapidly at any destination is something that a normal airliner can not do. It is still a priority and therefor the need to replace the An-12 is still required. Obviously the Il-76 will do the heavy haul job for a long time to come, but many such rapid deployment missions will require smaller aircraft as well. Even the ancient An-2 is still required for certain missions.

AMCXXL wrote:In conclusion, the An-12 is disappearing without replacement, this is already a fact that is not worth discussing again.
New forms of transport make it useless for regional scale and for troop transport VDV was replaced in the 70s-80s.
The remaining units are just to use the existing resources while they last, but they will disappear in a few years. The remaining An-12 are of 1967 to 1972, this means 53 to 58 years old.

If by 2030 there is a tactical aircraft type An-72 but fatter or like C-27J but longer, with at least 12t pay load and MTOW 36-38t , that is all we can realistically hope for at this time
About 150 aircraft of this type would be needed

So the conclusion is that at this moment there is no tactical aircraft project replacement for the An-12

I mean they can just buy Shanxy Y-9

It's only 50 mil

It's a problem but not as big of a problem if they were short on aircraft they couldn't buy elsewhere like fighter jets

Fortunately this is just medium transport

They could just license it too

I am not saying that they do not have to continue developing the successor planes. Just that the existing airplanes are getting old and at this point, due to already done work, getting back the An-124 in production is a relatively low hanging fruit.

It is also a dead end.

I appreciate the factory that is ready to make them would like to make them, but is that in Russias interests?

They don't seem to be working the An-124 fleet to death and restoring aircraft in storage and then refurbishing those currently in operation will likely lead to an increase in the fleet size by a significant margin... will they even need new aircraft that soon?

Do they even need the aircraft currently in storage?

The twin engined Slon design will be rather more useful because it will be cheaper and enable payloads rather higher than the Il-476 can carry to be moved without needing to use the much bigger and more expensive An-124 for the job. Even some jobs the Il-476 could handle might be better achieved with the miniSlon because with a 60 ton payload it could probably carry it much further than the smaller aircraft could manage and perhaps take it without needing to stop off anywhere for refuelling.

And the aerodynamic of the An-124 is not obsolete.

They are not and it is not a bad plane... which is why I am suggesting using the ones already built until the replacement can commence production and for them to be used until they run out of airframe hours.

If you have seen the Slon models for wind tunnel, they are very similar to the An-124.

Some of the wing improvements could be already introduced with the new built An-124.

The Slon might be exactly the same shape as the An-124 but with a wider and taller cargo bay that is shorter in the two engined version but longer in the four engined model.

Upgrading the An-124 to be wider and taller is essentially redesigning the plane so replacement with the Slon would make more sense.

The An-124 could be produced for a few years at a small production rate starting from 2028, while they finish developing the successor.

Do you think they could replace foreign parts on existing aircraft and those in storage by 2028?

I would think having them refurbish the current aircraft and the aircraft in storage and making a half dozen prototypes of the two engined and four engined Slon would keep them busy till about 2032+... by that time there might be other aircraft they could be building... maybe Il-476s to boost numbers quickly... but sitting waiting for work is a waste of resources and bored experts will likely get head hunted away to factories that are actually making planes Russia needs.

After the successor is ready (and not before), they can switch production and increase production rate (this will probably be sometimes around the second half of the next decade).

They will need a factory to fabricate the prototypes and test examples...

Otherwise they will not have anything for several years.

Their time overhauling operational aircraft and making aircraft in storage flyable would be valuable to the fleet.

There is no chance that a brand new design (or large modification of a design) can be introduced without basically redoing all subsystem design work and redoing all tests. This takes a long time.

I see also putting the An-124 in production as propaedeutic for the Slon development, so that it can be done without rushing things.

The avionics and systems developed to upgrade the An-124 with Russian systems could be used in the first model Slon aircraft if new systems are not ready yet.

New technology fly by light and electric drives and systems replacing heavy hydraulic systems could be applied too...

They don't need to make An-124s to learn to make Slons.

Russian designers have also to develop a new civilian widebody airliner, an An-12 successor and they have to finish developing the Il-212.

They are going to be busy... the AN-12 replacement is a modified Il-476 which is already in serial production. The Il-212 is a modification of the Il-112V which was ready for Serial production but needed a more powerful and more reliable engine... and from comments about the Il-114 it sounds like the engine has matured quite a bit already.

Better not to put too many projects in final development at the same time, especially when there is already a solution ready.

The factory ready to make An-124s wont be effected by what other factories will or will not be making, nor what other design teams will be or wont be testing.

After they will have the Il-212 in service and the An-12 successor (and the civilian widebody airliner) ready for production, they will be able to concentrate on a super heavy transport plane.

I don't think the designers working on light transport planes will effect the designers working on heavy transports and vice versa.

I agree that the Slon with the four engines is not a high priority because the in service and in storage An-124s can probably already do the job... but producing some twin engined Slons would probably free up a lot of An-124s to the point where more don't need to be built.

I hope that they work on the Il-212 without too many distractions. Otherwise they will lose another ten years without getting anywhere, as it has been for the il-214/276 and for the Il-112v.

Sounds to me that their problems were mostly engine related in terms of the light aircraft and in terms of the An-12 their requirements and Indias requirements did not match. Losing a design partner should actually speed things up and when they finish the design it should go rather faster not having to get agreement with other partners.

In the end India can decide to buy it or buy from Brazil or China or the west.

The new generation internal systems for a new generation super heavy plane could also be slowly first introduced on the newly built An-124.

I am not expecting the avionics on the Slon to be revolutionary and a generation ahead of existing systems...

For the prototypes they might have new systems planned but to get the aircraft flying and testing they could use systems for the An-124 too... or scaled up systems for the Il-476 for that matter.

Maybe some new modular system for aircraft from the single engined Baikal, up through the Il-112 and Il-212 and Il-114 and Il-276 and Il-476 and Twin engined Slon and four engined Slon... all standardised and modular so a pilot can change aircraft types and be able to use it easily enough without extensive conversion training.

There will be also a lot of lessons to be learnt from getting back the An-124 in production that could be later applied to its successor.

Learning lessons making An-124s is wasted when they wont end up making many of them anyway if they make any at all.

Lessons learned making the twin engined Slon could be directly applied to making the four engined Slon and any 6 engined Slon they might want to make in the future.

Of course they have said the PD-35 design has the capacity to be scaled up to a PD-50, so a four engined Slon with PD50 engines would be quite a beast...

this is not realistic, we are in 2025, in the middle of a global war against NATO and with other priorities more important that military cargo planes

The war is practically over and Russia has essentially won, and new Russian transport planes make good sense to replace the aging Russian fleet to reduce losses due to old equipment, and also to sell to a world that likely no longer wants to be robbed by the US paying half a billion dollars for a C-17 transport plane...

the only clear is the only military cargo planes in production are Il-76MD-90A and the modernizations Il-76MD-M and An-124-100, that is all

Very true, but funding for the Il-212 is clearly being spent and the Il-114 is getting closer to production as well with work on its engine benefiting the Il-112 and Baikal and Ladoga and Mi-38 and Altius programmes too.

Large-volume cargo, in one piece, such as a tank, a helicopter, a military vehicle of any kind: you need a large aircraft, the Il-76 and the An-124 are the aircraft that the VTA uses and will continue to use for decades. The Il-76s that are built in 2030 will be used at least until 2080.

That is very true, but even the most wealthy countries in the world don't send such things by air except tiny numbers for sales contracts. Most heavy stuff goes by ships or rail.

The current trend is to send the soldiers in an airliner like the Tu-154, Tu-134, Tu-62, An-148, etc... and then send the supplies, ammunition etc... in cargo planes, it is more effective and safe, this is how it has been done in Syria, Libya where you only will see Il-76 and An-124 deployed

And of those planes you mention... Tu-154, Tu-134, Tu-62, An-148,... only the An-148 is not obsolete and in need of replacement...

If they are not dropping from the aircraft in parachutes I would say the Tu-214 or Il-114 would be better options for the future...

The logical conclusion is that if they make an An-72 type aircraft with a wider fuselage or a C-27J type with a greater length and power, with a maximum load of 12 or more, they can replace all current tactical cargo aircraft

And that is exactly what the Il-212 is.

In conclusion, the An-12 is disappearing without replacement, this is already a fact that is not worth discussing again.

That they continue to be used suggests making a tiny number of Il-276s would be a good investment because not all customers are in the same situation as the Russian military and light transports are useful in certain roles and niches.

The Russian military uses a few different An-12 variants that the Il-276 could replace in service and when production was done the Il-276 production lines could be reverted to making Il-476s which would boost production numbers of that aircraft to allow exports to be considered.

This would generate more income for Illusion as export prices massively increase profitability of aircraft manufacture and will boost money available to UAC to continue their work and upgrade their tools and infrastructure... and maybe pay down some debts and get into credit.

If by 2030 there is a tactical aircraft type An-72 but fatter or like C-27J but longer, with at least 12t pay load and MTOW 36-38t , that is all we can realistically hope for at this time
About 150 aircraft of this type would be needed

The Il-212... but as the Il-112V has already been developed to serial production level and just lacks a suitable engine, the completion of the project with a suitable engine makes a lot of sense.

The An-72 did not replace the An-24 or the An-26 simply because it was four or five times more expensive to operate, so while the Russian military liked the speed and range and extra payload commercial operators in Russia preferred the prop driven aircraft so they could keep their airfares low enough to get bums on seats and keep the planes full.

The Il-112V will be popular because of its low operating costs comparable with the An-26 it will replace.

Even the ancient An-2 is still required for certain missions.

Its capacity to fly at very low stall speeds led to panic in Korea about the stealth An-2s that disappear from radar by flying slower than 100km/h. Most aircraft based radar removes targets flying slowly so the display is not covered with cars driving down the motorway, so a speed limit is set for target data so it is removed from the screen.

This means when the An-2 is flying around at 80km/h it is removed from the radar screen and becomes invisible...

So the conclusion is that at this moment there is no tactical aircraft project replacement for the An-12

It is clearly his opinion, which is perfectly valid, but I rather suspect the gaps will be filled even if it only ever gets sold to export clients.

I mean they can just buy Shanxy Y-9

It would only make sense to buy an in production Chinese aircraft if they could get an agreement on China buying a few thousand Russian transport planes in return and I rather suspect that would be very unlikely.

Of course if Trump attacks China the way Biden attacked Russia then maybe airliner embargoes on China might lead them to wanting to licence produce Superjets and MS-21s and even Il-96s and fast tracking that widebodied airliner they were working on with Russian parts replacing all the western parts...

If they need it the Il-276 makes the most sense, and if they don't need it then they don't need anything except more Il-476s it seems.

@George1
So the conclusion is that at this moment there is no tactical aircraft project replacement for the An-12

Then, the An-12 have been dissapearing for years without replacement, this is already a fact


Example:

Plesetsk aerodrome, base of the 17º OSAE until 2014, a squadron with about 8 An-12 and several An-26 and 72 to serve the Plesetsk cosmodrome



Plesetsk aerodrome in 2024 as 3º squadron of 566º VTA Regiment, with 9 Il-76MD
https://www.google.com/maps/place/69%C2%B004'09.0%22N+33%C2%B025'00.0%22E/@62.7221144,40.4937603,1062m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m4!3m3!8m2!3d69.069167!4d33.416667?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDEwNi4xIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D



Other examples:
-Ulan-Ude, until 2013 there was a transport squadron with An-12s, now there is a VTA regiment with Il-76s
-8th ADON Chkalovsk, the An-12s have been gradually retired and a squadron with An-72s has been activated
-33rd OTSAP Levashovo, more than half of the An-12s have been gradually decommissioned but a squadron with An-72s has been activated
-GLITS Akhtubinsk, there was a transport squadron with An-12s that was cancelled and replaced by An-72s
-117th VTAP Orenburg, the An-12PPs were cancelled and replaced by Il-22PPs
- Migalovo-Tver, the last two An-12 of VTA were decommisioned by 2020 or 2021, now there are two An-72

Artic operations:

Then, the An-12 have been dissapearing for years without replacement, this is already a fact

Doesn't that come down to interpretation though?

If you are watching Russian bases and watching aircraft numbers and An-2 numbers start to decline does that actually mean they don't want them and the fact that no new plane is taking their place... does that suggest there will be no replacement?

Or does that mean that their An-2s are running out of airframe life and are being forceably retired and the replacement might be something they are not happy with... like using Mi-8s for para jumping or light transport or light cargo roles, which would be rather expensive in comparison?

An-12s will be disappearing from service as they get older and less reliable... they are not being directly replaced by a replacement because no replacement has been developed yet.

UAC was working with India to create a replacement and now they are working on their own design... and AFAIK that is also a fact.

The lack of information about progress is not evidence of anything other than there is nothing to report.

Most of their new transport projects are dependent on engines so delays are to be expected... there is no value in trying to get an aircraft design working and ready for serial production if the engine it needs it 5 years away.

They can focus on other issues and keep work on the new type ticking away taking advantage of the time to do models and simulations and tests with new ideas and solutions with materials and designs and technologies while they are waiting.

UAC also has to work to customers that are not part of the Russian military and so if the Russian military decide they don't want an aircraft in the 20 ton payload category the Il-276 could still be completed with more powerful engines... the Tu-330 could be looked at too but I suspect they want to get the Tu-214 fully Russian and fully into serial production and fully conforming to what airlines want from it first while in the background are looking at improvements in design since they put the Tu-330 forward.

I suspect such designs would appeal to BRICS countries already operating Il-76 and Il-476 types as well as Tu-214 customers where the commonality and lower prices than the western equivalents and lack of sanctions imposed on them by Russia will make them appealing.

-Ulan-Ude, until 2013 there was a transport squadron with An-12s, now there is a VTA regiment with Il-76s

Which makes sense if there are no new An-12s being made.

-8th ADON Chkalovsk, the An-12s have been gradually retired and a squadron with An-72s has been activated
-33rd OTSAP Levashovo, more than half of the An-12s have been gradually decommissioned but a squadron with An-72s has been activated
-GLITS Akhtubinsk, there was a transport squadron with An-12s that was cancelled and replaced by An-72s

Which can be expected as the An-12s run out of airframe life, and the good news is that the Il-212 is being developed with PD-8 engines that will fill a role the An-72 fills.

The obvious question however would be are the An-72s replacing the An-12s by choice or by default... replacing An-12s with Il-76s would increase costs so replacing them with smaller aircraft in the form of An-72s saves money... so if they had Il-276s in serial production and also Il-212s in serial production... which would they be buying to replace the An-12s?

I would guess a mix of both because the Il-276 will be more expensive to operate than the An-12 but much of the jobs the An-12 would perform could be performed by lighter aircraft, hense the An-72/Il-212 option.

With the Il-276 costing more to operate than the An-12 the Il-212 might become more valuable and more widely used but the Il-276 would still make things easier and cheaper with its commonality with the Il-476 in terms of support and spares etc.

It is the same plane that is smaller and lighter and with half the number of engines.

-117th VTAP Orenburg, the An-12PPs were cancelled and replaced by Il-22PPs

Well that is interesting... perhaps an Il-114 or Tu-214 replacement for the Il-20/22/38 types is in order when the airlines get the numbers they need. The Tu-214 could also replace the old Tus and Yaks and Ils and other obsolete types that need updating.

- Migalovo-Tver, the last two An-12 of VTA were decommisioned by 2020 or 2021, now there are two An-72

The extra engine power of the Il-212 should allow improved payload and flight range for even better performance.

The above wing engine location together with high temperature metals they are developing should allow more sophisticated engine nozzles for the above wing engines allowing improvements in the ability to adjust engine trim in flight allowing more efficient cruise speeds and reducing drag by altering the angle of attack at higher flight speeds.

@AMCXXL

I'm not disputing that the An-12 is rapidly declining in numbers in Russian service. It's not surprising since it made it's first flight 67 years ago!
I just think that the requirement to replace them - and other aircraft like the An-26 - should remain a priority. This is the point that we don't agree on and it's fine.

For me the requirement is the same as with civil airliners. You are not going to just build Il-96-400's to replace everything. It simply does not make sense - esp economically.
That is why Russia is developing several civil types to fill those requirements. The required types will be developed and purchased for the military.

GarryB wrote:I suspect such designs would appeal to BRICS countries already operating Il-76 and Il-476 types as well as Tu-214

UAC can provide different versions of the same aircraft. For instance, single seat Mig 21 came to India in 3 versions: T-75, T-77, T-96.

@AMCXXL

can you give us the numbers of all remaining transport auicraft types (besides the il-76 that you have written in the respective topic) ?

An-124
An-12
An-72
An-26

Don't wish to be rude, but if you are making lists of Russian aircraft a list of the obsolete types still being used... An-2, An-24, An-26, An-72, An-12, Yak-40, Il-62, Il-20, Il-22, Il-38, Tu-154M, etc etc would be interesting because we could make an xcel spreadsheet of the old types and map them to the new types being developed along with the new engines those new types require and with the time scales for the engines and new aircraft certification we will get a better idea of what they can do and when.

I agree that it doesn't make sense to just make replacement aircraft for previous designs just because... there has to be a good reason to make them.... but keep in mind UAC does provide aircraft to the Russian military but they also sell to customers around the world.

You are right that an aircraft like the An-72 or Il-212 can do everything the smaller aircraft do and in most cases better, but that is for the military who don't mind jet fuel costs to get jobs done.

For commercial operators the slower speed of the propeller driven aircraft is not a big problem if it reduces flight costs by a factor or three or more.

It actually makes some routes and jobs practical.

For the military a few light aircraft would be useful and if they are cheaper then that would be OK.

The Military are buying Il-114s by the look of it so completing development of the Il-112 makes sense when they find the right prop engine.

The engine for the Il-114 and Ladoga and Baikal is also used in the Mi-38 so the engine will be operational with the Russian military so using it in a light transport makes economic sense and its operational costs will be lower than the Il-212.

The An-72 didn't replace the An-24/26 because for some jobs those lighter prop aircraft were much cheaper to get the job done and I think making the Il-112 and Il-212 makes sense for the same reason.

The Russian military might not want both in equal numbers but having some of the cheaper design makes sense when they will be already operating the engine and the Il-212 is the same aircraft body but with above wing mounted jet engines.

In fact the Il-112/Il-212 would be the An-72 and an An-72 with turboprop engines combined in the one design allowing it to perform all the roles of the An-24 and An-26 and properly replace them all.

The Il-112 and Il-212 is a good solution to getting the older types replaced.

For export customers and for domestic non military customers the added choice of the different types makes sense and will be appreciated because they will generally want propeller driven light aircraft to operate from rough strips. The overwing engine design of the Il-212 should allow operations from rough air strips too...

It would be worth developing and producing the Il-276 for the UAC whether the Russian military wants it or not because there is a global demand for aircraft in this weight class and with the Il-276 being an Il-476 profile cargo bay aircraft with commonality with the larger aircraft having both types will compliment each other... the more so if the engines are moved above the wing on the Il-276...

@Sujoy
UAC can provide different versions of the same aircraft. For instance, single seat Mig 21 came to India in 3 versions:  T-75, T-77, T-96.

this already happened: An-8 (11t payload 2 engines), An-10 (airliner) , An-12 (20t payload 4 engines)

GarryB
UAC also has to work to customers that are not part of the Russian military and so if the Russian military decide they don't want an aircraft in the 20 ton payload category the Il-276 could still be completed with more powerful engines... the Tu-330 could be looked at too but I suspect they want to get the Tu-214 fully Russian and fully into serial production and fully conforming to what airlines want from it first while in the background are looking at improvements in design since they put the Tu-330 forward.

The problem I see is that you focus on the weight of the load and not on the volume.

Can you transport a Mi-24 of 8 tons in an An-12 ? of course you cann´t because the volume,
you need an An-124 to transport 2 or as much 3 Mi-24, then you transport only 16 or 24 tons in an airplane with more than 100 tons of max. payload


Let's divide the VKS transport aircraft into two:
-VTA, which will operate Il-76MD-90A plus the Soviet legacy Il-76 and An-124 aircraft for a long time to come
-Regional transport, now An-26, An-72 and the remains of the An-12

What is the problem with the An-26 and the An-72? How small are their cargo hold

Does the VKS need a regional transport with a cargo hold the size of the An-12? Probably yes.
Does it need a regional transport with a capacity of 20 tons? Probably not. If at any time it needs it, it can use an Il-76MD with half the load, which is easier for it

If you have to move a single object of 20 tons, it will be bulky, an Il-76 is better
If you are going to move standard palletized cargo, for example 30 pallets of 1 ton, you can do it with 2 planes that can hold 20 tons or with 3 planes that can hold 12 tons


A very significant example is the aircraft before the Il-76 and the An-26
The An-8 and the An-12 were basically the same aircraft
The An-8 had 2 engines and could hold 11 tons
The An-12 with 4 engines could hold 20 or 21 tons
The cargo hold had a similar width and height, only differing in length, the An-12 was about 2 meters longer, which was also the difference in length of the aircraft, basically the An-12 had an extra central section to lengthen it.




The problem is that the central section of the An-12 was narrowing the cargo hold. For carrying paratroopers it wasn't much of a problem, but for carrying standardized pallets it takes up space.
The useful section is then reduced to 2.6 metres wide for a height of 2.1, which is similar to smaller aircraft


For example, the C-27J has an internal space more suitable for carrying standard pallets.


While the An-12 was widely used for airborne troops in the VTA regiments that were replaced gradually by the Il-76, mainly in 80´s, the An-8 was eventually used for more modest duties and had a shorter range (regional transport). Only 150 units of the An-8 were built and a few years later production was cancelled and the An-26 was developed
When the An-8 regional transport aircraft was phased out in the 1980s and 1990s, only the An-12 remained, which in fact came mainly from the VTA after being replaced by the Il-76.
Therefore, returning to a 12-ton aircraft for regional transport is recovering what was there in the 1970s and 1980s.

So now the planes used for regional cargo could be replaced by a plane with similar performance to the An-8 in both load and cargo hold volume
That's where I think the Russian MoD is going

Shoigu ordered the development of an aircraft with PD-8 engines more powerful than the D-36, so it will go to at least 12 tons of maximum load
To cover the regional transport regiments (4 or 5) and some minor squadrons, taking into account that there will already be a 12t aircraft with a sufficient cargo volume, it is not necessary at all to develop another aircraft, it is not profitable and the resources are needed for other things
Could a single aircraft be manufactured with two versions, one with 2 PD-8 engines or another with two more powerful engines? perhaps, but I doubt it for only 2 or 3 dozen

The problem I see is that you focus on the weight of the load and not on the volume.

If you scroll back through my long discussions about the Il-112 you will notice I do take into account volume and appreciate that it is often more important than flight speed and flight range and weight capacity.

It doesn't matter if you fly a bit slower if you can't fit things inside your aircraft you want to move.

The Il-112 (and therefore also the Il-212 that is based on it) got fat so it could take loads the An-24/26 can't manage even though their payload is officially 5 tons (the 112 not the 212).

The Il-112 was designed to do what they wanted it to do... perhaps they found the AN-72 could carry things that the An-24/26 can't so when they were developing their propeller driven replacement for the An-24/26 they expanded its cabin size to take bulkier loads. The result was that the Il-112 does not have the payload or range or speed performance of some foreign types which were suggested as a better idea than the Il-112.

I mentioned it is the design they asked for.

With a lack of power and engine reliability they have gone for jet engines as a solution moving forward and that should work but it will also massively increase the operating costs. The military wont be too upset but as the Il-112 is the same aircraft but with turboprop engines... lots of new engines are becoming available over the next 4-5 years then revisiting the Il-112 just makes sense... it is essentially all ready to go and just needs suitable engines.

Even the military would benefit from cheap light aircraft so even though they might not drive or fund the process they might buy Il-112s too.

Can you transport a Mi-24 of 8 tons in an An-12 ? of course you cann´t because the volume,
you need an An-124 to transport 2 or as much 3 Mi-24, then you transport only 16 or 24 tons in an airplane with more than 100 tons of max. payload

I agree and of course it is further complicated by the fact that you can't just 3D print the aircraft you want so sometimes you have to send things to out of the way places and whatever you send is all you will have to bring things back. If you are sending 20 tons of cargo, but you need to send it 5,000km from one side of the country to the other then using an An-12 will be very slow and might require stops on the way there. Also when it gets there if something that weighs 70 tons needs to come back then sending an An-22 or An-124 would have been a better choice. Splitting up the cargo might make things easier and avoid so many stops on the way there and back, but it also risks incomplete cargos arriving and potential damage or loss during assembly and disassembly.

In this case the Il-212 is bigger than the An-26 it is replacing and the Il-276 has the same cargo hold size as the Il-76 which should be bigger than they An-12.

The Russian military are working on a new generation of armour but aircraft smaller than than the Il-476 probably wont have the weight capacity to be too worried.

A 20 ton capacity type or smaller would only consider the Typhoon light wheeled vehicles by weight and they are huge so they likely would not fit anyway.

Even a 35 ton capacity Tu-330 is probably going to struggle with a Boomerang or Kurganets type vehicle and of course the Il-476 might carry most of the Armata based vehicles but a Slon-twin might be the bare minimum for a lot of their vehicles.

A Slon quad might even be able to carry a Hazelnut...

Does the VKS need a regional transport with a cargo hold the size of the An-12? Probably yes.
Does it need a regional transport with a capacity of 20 tons? Probably not. If at any time it needs it, it can use an Il-76MD with half the load, which is easier for it

The Il-212 has an enlarged cargo bay, and the Il-276 will have the same cargo bay capacity as the Il-476 so unlike with the An-12, you would only need an Il-476 if the cargo was too long or too heavy... or the distance it needed to be taken was too far... and the Il-276 was supposed to get an inflight refuelling probe.

So something does not fit in an An-12 but fits in an Il-76 now, goes in an Il-76. With the Il-276 it will fit in the Il-276 if it fits in the Il-476 because in height and width their cargo bays are the same dimensions... the main difference is the Il-276s bay is shorter and it can only take lighter loads, but as you point out more often it is volume rather than weight that is the problem.

A heavy thing like a MBT look silly sitting in a huge transport plane, but they fill the weight capacity without filling the volume capacity so for an Il-476 you can carry one.

If you have to move a single object of 20 tons, it will be bulky, an Il-76 is better

Better because the Il-76 has a wider and taller cargo bay.... like the Il-276.

If you are going to move standard palletized cargo, for example 30 pallets of 1 ton, you can do it with 2 planes that can hold 20 tons or with 3 planes that can hold 12 tons

And having smaller planes they can go to the same destination but when they arrive they can then go to different destinations if needed with anything they might pick up there. Smaller aircraft are flexible and cheaper.

As I have mentioned, if the only motor vehicles you have for your family of 10 is a motor bike and a truck then most of the time you will be using the truck... unless you use the motorbike to escape... A 12 seater minivan and a station wagon and perhaps an SUV to do the shopping are more likely candidates.

For a family of three or four you might have a work sedan, an SUV for mum to do the shopping and take the kids to and from school and maybe dad has a hot rod or motor bike to work on. A transit van or ute could be a work vehicle too.

A very significant example is the aircraft before the Il-76 and the An-26
The An-8 and the An-12 were basically the same aircraft
The An-8 had 2 engines and could hold 11 tons
The An-12 with 4 engines could hold 20 or 21 tons
The cargo hold had a similar width and height, only differing in length, the An-12 was about 2 meters longer, which was also the difference in length of the aircraft, basically the An-12 had an extra central section to lengthen it.

So what is the problem... history repeats... the difference is that this time the An-26 replacement got jet engines which means it will be an An-8 replacement as well as an An-26 and An-72 replacement, while the Il-276 is going the other way and scaling down the heavier transport to replace the aircraft below it.

As you point out Il-76s are used instead of An-12s in a lot of situations so a shorter lighter cheaper Il-76 in the form of the Il-276 is actually the logical solution.

A turboprop replacement for the An-26 makes sense for cost of operations for most users... but is not critical for the military so they are going to make it more expensive by fitting jet engines because the turboprops are not ready yet making the Il-212 the perfect replacement for the An-72 and An-26... the An-24 will be replaced by the Il-114... and an Il-112 with the improved engines of the Il-114 or other engines will eventually be made when those engines are available as a cheaper alternative for those customers who need to keep to a budget... which does include the Russian military, but I am sure they are worried about getting something into service before aircraft start crashing or they end up having to use Il-476s for tiny loads over short distances.

So now the planes used for regional cargo could be replaced by a plane with similar performance to the An-8 in both load and cargo hold volume
That's where I think the Russian MoD is going

Wouldn't that mean a better direction would be an Il-276 with jet engines to replace the An-12, or perhaps even the two 13,500hp engines with contrarotating blades of the Yak-44 AWACS aircraft fitted to the Il-276 to reduce operational costs by using propellers...

The Navy are going to be needing an AWACS aircraft eventually and a light AWACS plane would be a useful gap filler and also export item for smaller air forces.

As an Air Force aircraft that operates from airfields it probably doesn't need that sort of power, but using the Il-476 airframe cross section with a shorter fuselage and smaller wing just makes sense... for the military the jets mounted above the wing should improve STOL performance and protect from FOD, while for civilian operators a propfan version might reduce costs and make it more cost effective.

A scaled up four engined version of the Il-476 with propfans could replace the An-70 concept too... for those that don't care about high transit speeds or for lower operating costs.

To cover the regional transport regiments (4 or 5) and some minor squadrons, taking into account that there will already be a 12t aircraft with a sufficient cargo volume, it is not necessary at all to develop another aircraft, it is not profitable and the resources are needed for other things

Russian airline companies would buy Il-212 and Il-112 and Il-276 to replace their old soviet types and on the export market they should be rather popular... especially as all the parts are Russian so they are sanction proof directly.

The Il-76 and An-124 were very popular on the international transport market and I would say an Il-76 based lighter transport plane with the same cargo by height and width and jet speed would be popular too, while a twin engined Slon in the An-22/C-17 payload range would also sell rather well on the export market too.

The UAC is not just there to make what the Russian military wants, they also sell to the world... Remember they sold MiG-29M2s to Egypt and Algeria... the Russian military has shown no interest in buying MiG-29M2s... or Su-30MKIs either for that matter.

And their future plans are for Il-114 (low wing airliner to replace the An-24), Il-112V(high wing 5 ton cargo plane to replace the An-26 with an engine related to the Il-114), Il-212 (high wing cargo plane to replace the An-26 while engine for Il-112 is being sorted... it can also replace the An-72 at the same time) .

All these aircraft are twin engined.

The An-12 is going to be replaced by the Il-276 with twin engines and the same cargo bay width and height as the Il-476 so it can handle bigger bulkier loads without needing the bigger heavier aircraft.

The Il-276 is a jet so will cost more to operate than the An-12 but probably can shift more load that would otherwise have to go by the even more expensive bigger broth er, so it will save some money and more cargo faster.

An-12s and C-130s fly through weather and are not very fast or comfortable. Il-76s fly higher and faster...

@Garry, you know that noone of this plans would be able to come to fruit before the next decade?

As far as the il-112v, he's dead, Jim

The Il-212 is not just a conversion of il-112v with jet engine, it is basically a complete redesign.

Note: the An-72 Cargo compartment dimensions 9 x 2.2 x 2.15 m (So same width as the An-140T).

The Il-212 needs basically to be a wider and bulkier An-72.

They could eventually do a turboprop conversion of the il-212, but it will not have more in common with the il-112v than with any other turboprop aircrafts.
They could also call it il-112M, but it will be a new aircraft (i.e. Tu-22 Vs Tu-22M)

Hopefully it will have characteristics more similar to the C-27j (ideally a bit longer cargo hold) or An-8.

I.e. cargo bay width of 3.2 m of more (similar to An-12).

I know that in many occasions size is more limiting than weight important than weight, but this is true above a certain minimum weigh payload capabilities.  I.e. no need to use a An-124 when a beluga equivalent (like the proposed il-96-500 could do the same).

And this could be also true for loads up to 8-10 tons which are quite bulky.

But spend a lot of money to do max 5 tons payload aircraft does not make sense, and the same engine as the il-114 is not enough instead for a modern equivalent of the An-8 (or a Russian equivalent of the C-27j).

And yeah this could be done in parallel with a longer version with twice the power, to have a similar relationship that C-27j -C130 or An-8 -An-12 have.

The 10-12 tons payload aircraft can have  a 3.2m (or more) wide cargo bay and be powered by 2 PDV-4000 (4500 to 5000 hp) turboprop engine.
The 20 -25 tons payload aircraft can be a stretched, longer version of it (with the same cabin width and height) powered by either 4 PDV-4000 turboprop engines or by two PD-8S turboprop.

For 5 tons, if they really need it a rear ramp version of the Ladoga could be ready by latest 2029 (and probably earlier). 2400 hp engine is enough for this kind of load.

The cargo bay would be practically the same as the An-26 or the proposed An-140T (I.e about

length 10,2 m, width 2,27 m, height 1,89 m)

Against the ones of the il-112v prototype, which had cargo hold 8.4 m long, 2.45 m wide and 2.42 m high. (Which, apart from the heigh is not really much more than what allowed by An-26, An-140 or Ladoga derivative (note: the TVRS-44 fuselage is wider than the one of the Let L-610 and has the same size as the An-140 fuselage).

No other new aircraft can be ready before such aircraft.

Iran did also a An-140 modification with rear ramp and some modification to wings and structures ,(the An-140T was only a paper plane and Antonov never did the rear ramp cargo version of the An-140

https://www.airdatanews.com/iran-unveils-indigenous-simorgh-turboprop/

The Simurgh uses the 2400 hp  turboprop TV3-117, while the Ladoga uses the more modern TV7-117-ST-02 with similar power.

As far as the engine of the yak-44, it was the d-27 propfan, same engine used also in the An-70.

Russia can probably do a new propfan based on the PD-8 (the propeller/fan and the main gearbox were made by russian Aerosila), it is just a matter of time and money.

And here some replies I was writing yesterday but that I lost during page refresh (mainly about Il-276 and Tu-330)

GarryB wrote:
UAC was working with India to create a replacement and now they are working on their own design... and AFAIK that is also a fact.

The lack of information about progress is not evidence of anything other than there is nothing to report.

Most of their new transport projects are dependent on engines so delays are to be expected... there is no value in trying to get an aircraft design working and ready for serial production if the engine it needs it 5 years away.

They are not working on them, there was preliminary work done on il-214/276, but it stopped several years ago (and the work on the tu-330 stopped about 25 years ago). They can be restarted (probably restarting from the detailed subsystem design plus all development tests i.e. about 6-8 years of work until first aircraft into service) and in 2019 was announced a competition between the two projects, but then the decision was postponed and no work is apparently being done with either of them.

 As far as tu-330 this was confirmed in an interview with the head of Tupulev one year ago

https://m.business-gazeta.ru/article/616520

(...)
Question— At one time, KAZ had high hopes that it would be entrusted with the construction of the military transport Tu-330. Topic closed?

Answer- Today, yes. We are focused on fulfilling strategic, special and civil aviation missions.

Question - Several years ago they spoke quite officially about military modifications of the Tu-214...

Answer - “The airplane has such a future.”
(...)

So maybe the Tu-330 project can be restarted, but it will be after all work on the Tu-214 import substitution and modernisation will be finished, not before.
Since there is commonality between the two aircrafts this could be a good option, but it will not be possible in the immediate future (i.e. if they would restart work in 2027 maybe by 2032 such aircraft could enter service).

As far as the Il-276, Ilyushin also has already too much on its plate, i.e. il-114, il-212 and eventually the civilian widebody airliner il-96 derivative (unless that will be given to Yakovlev).

I doubt the lack of update is due to secrecy. We are not talking about a sensitive projects  like a Mig31 successor or a strategic bomber (Pak-Da).
We receive any kind of small news about il-114, ladoga, baikal,  osvey, tu-214, il-212, SJ-100 and MC-21 (and earlier also about il-112v).

If there had been progress on the il-276 we would have known It by now.
This means that even if they restart now with il-276, it will not be in service before earliest 2031.

And the engine is not a reason.
Yes there will be new generation engines in the future, but at least for this thrust range they have the PS-90, which is available since 30 years ago, it is very well known and reliable (and while not being the latest generation, it is efficient enough). No need to go to the latest model for a military transport aircraft. Even the embraer C-390 uses the old engine of the A-320 (IAE v2500) instead of the new one (CFM leap or PW1000).

Finally, why do you want to have so many il-76 derivative? It is an old design much older than the An-124. The aerodynamics and fuselage of the An-124 is much more modern. Yes they have done some improvements with il-476, but the baseline is still a project 60 years old.


Paradoxically it would be more sensible to have a look at a design similar to the An-70


I believe you have a grudge against the An-124 just because it was designed in the Antonov Design bureau. The Slon is anyway just a An-124 derivative.

But yeah, until 2030, noone of these new project will enter service.

Only transport aircrafts which have chances to be in serial production before 2030 are:

Il-76 (already now in serial production)
Il-212 (maybe?)
An-124 production restart (starting from 2028)

Ladoga rear ramp derivative (maybe, but would need about 3 years develoment starting from baseline Ladoga if we consider also similari work for An-24 into An-26 or the iranian work on the Simurgh from the An-140 (which could also be taken into account, since the Ladoga had the same fuselage section size as the An-140).

No other military cargo aircraft can enter production in Russia in the next 5 years (including Il-276 or Tu-330).

In addition, for transporting standard pallets, a Tu-214 cargo could be enough.

And il96-400T in tanker cargo version, maybe even later with 2 PD-35 engines.
And possibly a il-96-500T (i.e. beluga like) concept can be restarted for carrying very wide loads which do not requires the weight carrying capabilities of a An-124).

Rodion_Romanovic wrote:They are not working on them, there was preliminary work done on il-214/276, but it stopped several years ago (and the work on the tu-330 stopped about 25 years ago).

From what I can gather in the Russian aviation press the IL-276 is currently under development.

Since the end of 2017, UAC has been working under a contract for the development of the IL-276 medium military transport aircraft (SVTS). Such an aircraft is in high demand in the Russian aerospace forces, as the existing An-12 class of aircraft are...obsolete and will be completely decommissioned by 2030.

The plan is to fit the PS-90A engine for the initial production machines. I'm not sure about the more modern PS-90A3, but earlier versions of the PS-90A are not compatible with the more modern digital engine control systems found in more recent aircraft. Not a big issue for a military type though as we can see with the IL-76-90A's. However it appears that the IL-276 might just get the PD-14 from the start after all.

Rosaviatsia certified the PD-14 back in late 2018 already and it's currently in production for the MC-21. It may well be ready for the IL-276 prototypes of which the construction has apparently already begun.

@Mir 
The last info I could find was from April 2020 that the concept for a new Medium military transport aircraft had been approved but the necessary documents needed to be finalized.


It was also reported  that "developments of a number of design bureaus that are part of the UAC will be used in the creation of the promising aircraft" and that the year before il-276 and Tu-330 concepts had been considered but no winner had been announced.

https://aviation21.ru/odobrena-koncepciya-srednego-voenno-transportnogo-samoleta/

However since that no detailed info has been communicated.

Considering that Ilyushin one and half years ago switched from the il-112v to the il-212 which will have larger fuselage and higher payload, we can probably imagine that it could cover for some of the tasks that then new medium military transport aircraft would have covered.

https://aviation21.ru/il-112v-budet-pererabotan-v-il-212-s-dvigatelyami-pd-8/

(...)Accordingly, the aircraft's wing and chassis will be redesigned, and new fuel and hydraulic systems will be installed," the agency's source said.
(...)According to the agency's source, the range, payload capacity and dimensions of the cargo cabin are still being developed. "For now, we can only say with certainty that the new aircraft will have a greater payload capacity due to more powerful engines," he said.

And here from another article about the il-212 from march 2024.
https://aviation21.ru/sergej-shojgu-prodolzhaetsya-sozdanie-samolyota-il-212/

They promise to manufacture it in two and a half years, so the first flight could take place in 2027. Based on the experience of other aircraft, testing will take about three more years. Thus, from 2030, the Il-212 will be able to start entering service with the troops

So earliest that the il-212 can enter service would be 2030. Do you believe that any other project from Ilyushin could be faster?

By the way: in 2022 a cargo version of the Ladoga with rear ramp has been presented, so it is not just my speculation.

I do not know if they are already doing work on it, but its development and tests should not require more than 3 years in top of the one on the baseline Ladoga.

https://aviation21.ru/uzga-prezentoval-gruzovuyu-versiyu-samolyota-tvrs-44-ladoga/

UZGA presented the cargo version of the TVRS-44 Ladoga aircraft
15.08.2022, 15:26

The Ural Civil Aviation Plant (UZGA) presented a model of the cargo version of the regional turboprop passenger aircraft TVRS-44 (Ladoga) at the Army-2022 forum. The cargo ramp aircraft TVRS-44T differs from the basic passenger machine by a fuselage extended by 4 meters and the presence of a cargo hatch with a ramp in its tail section.

At its stand, UZGA showed a model of the aircraft, accompanying the demonstration with technical characteristics of the future machine. 

The maximum takeoff weight of the TVRS-44T will be 18,500 kg, cruising speed 500 km/h, flight altitude 9000 m, fuel consumption 470-500 kg/h. With maximum load, the aircraft will require a runway 1500 m long.

As on the passenger Ladoga, it is planned to use two TV7-117ST-02 turboprop engines with a capacity of 2600 hp each with AV-44 propellers as a power plant.

The comprehensive program for the development of the Russian air transport industry, adopted by order of the Government of the Russian Federation at the end of June, provides for the construction of 140 TVRS-44 Ladoga passenger aircraft in 2025–2030.

This photo shows an optional manned aircraft capable of delivering 1,000 kilograms of cargo over a range of 1,000 kilometers.


This photo shows a transport UAV capable of delivering 250 kilograms of cargo at a range of up to 500 kilometers.

Why do you think that the future Russian cargo segment of up to 12 tons of payload will be represented by manned aircraft rather than UAVs?

As for the rumors about new medium-sized transporters, there are currently no aircraft factories in Russia that are not loaded with existing production programs.
So either we will hear about the start of construction of a new aircraft manufacturing plant, or the creation of another type of transport aircraft has been postponed beyond 2035.

The latter is called the S-76 I think? Anyway I find it hard to believe that both the An-12 and the An-26 will vanish without a suitable replacement (either manned or unmanned) - it does not make sense at all.

Scorpius wrote:As for the rumors about new medium-sized transporters, there are currently no aircraft factories in Russia that are not loaded with existing production programs.

So either we will hear about the start of construction of a new aircraft manufacturing plant, or the creation of another type of transport aircraft has been postponed beyond 2035

It is normal, because for many years there were no new civilian airliners (only exceptions were the regional jets an-148 in Voronezh and the SJ100 in konsomolsk on Amur) and no transport aircraft being built, so the factories not involved in fighters production were losing capabilities and personnel.

Relying too much on Antonov and buying only western airliners almost killed the aviation industry.

Now finally the situation (also thanks to the sanctions) has changed, but the airliners will occupy most of the existing production plants.

In post 720 of this very same thread (previous page) I made a list of all Russian aircraft final assembly plants currently involved or in preparation for aircraft production.

So, yeah there will be chances for one or two additional aircraft plants being needed (and for sure for a lot of aircraft components and internal systems firms), and I do not see problem in having them in Novorossia.

I made a mistake concerning MAPO Lukhovitsy plant (Moscow region, about 135 km southeast of Moscow), since it will be the main assembly plant for il-114, with many components made in VASO (Voronezh) (I thought it was the opposite).

The only existing plant currently without planned production is the privately owned Aviakor in Samara, which is in difficult economic situation and that is supporting UZGA with producing parts for the Ladoga aircraft. It was an important plant  in the past and produced the Tu-154 airliner and the Tu-142 anti-submarine aircraft (Tu-95 derivative).

Since about a decade ago it was supposed to launch An-140 production and it is working with UZGA for the Ladoga, it would be probably relatively easy to organise production of a military cargo version of the Ladoga there (in the past they were really trying to get the government restart An-140 production in Aviakor).

Kazan plant is more than busy, but they are expanding the facilities to allow increased Tu-214 production.

Probably after 2031 there will not be need to have large numbers of Tu-214 produced each year (i.e. more than 20), so if the Tu-330 were to be restarted (this is just a thought), Kazan aircraft plant could use some of the spare capacity to build Tu-330.

Many people and politicians in Saratov are lobbying to build a new aircraft plant there, I posted a few links to articles from August -october 2024 in the military aviation industry thread.

Mir wrote:Anyway I find it hard to believe that both the An-12 and the An-26 will vanish without a suitable replacement (either manned or unmanned) - it does not make sense at all.

The TVRS-44T could substitute practically 1 to 1 the An-26 capabilities, but I do not know if it is want or needed.
It could be produced either in UZGA (Ekaterinburg) or in Aviakor (Samara).

The il-212 will be able to substitute the An-72 and cover for the an-26 needs (while being larger and more expensive to operate) and for some of the An-12 needs (while being smaller). It will be produced in VASO (Voronezh) and "should" enter in service around 2030.

No full medium military transport aircraft with 20-30 tons of payload will be in serial production  in Russia before "at least" the beginning of the next decade.

It could be a Tu-330, a Il-276, a twin engined smaller An-70 derivative or a brand new design, but because of the current situation it will not be ready in the current decade (and possibly it will come closer to the 2035 than to the 2030).

If Russia were really desperate for An-12 replacement before that, the only feasible possibility is to buy one or two dozens Y-8 or Y9 from China. Maybe they could order kits from China and at least assemble them in Russia (i.e. Voronezh, since large serial production of the il-212 will not start before 2029/ 2030).
At least Russia has already pilots and maintenance personnel expert with the aircraft and engine and will not create a logistics nightmare... It would be only like extending the operating life of An-12 squadrons.

I am not saying that this is what Russia will do, I am only listing possibility within the current timescales (and not wishful thinkings).

@Rodion_Romanovic

The Il-212 is not just a conversion of il-112v with jet engine, it is basically a complete redesign.

I don't think so, as already said, what Shoigu wanted was an An-72 with more capacity and range
They will take advantage of part of the work done, these were Shoigu's statements

https://en.topwar.ru/237752-shojgu-nazval-sroki-pojavlenija-opytnogo-obrazca-novogo-legkogo-transportnika-il-212-razrabatyvaemogo-dlja-minoborony.html
https://bmpd.livejournal.com/tag/%D0%9F%D0%94-8

Shoigu announced the timing of the appearance of a prototype of the new light transport aircraft Il-212, being developed for the Ministry of Defense

According to the minister, work on the Il-212 is already underway, and the United Aircraft Corporation is developing a technical design for the aircraft. A prototype of the new Il-212 will appear at the end of 2026.

"The new transport aircraft will be distinguished by increased payload capacity and flight range, ease of refueling and maintenance. In addition, it will be able to use unpaved, unequipped runways, and also operate in Arctic latitudes" - declared Shoigu.

At the same time, it was explained that the project would not be developed from scratch. As already reported, the new Il-212 will retain the on-board equipment and avionics, as well as the fuselage in general, from the Il-112V. The biggest changes will affect the wing and landing gear; it was decided to install the engine on top of the wing, rather than under it. This will allow the aircraft to be used from unprepared and unpaved airfields.



The IL-112V, as I have said many times, was crap, with very little wing surface and wingspan for such a fat body. In addition to very weak engines.

The An-72 measures 28m long x 32m wingspan and has a wing surface of 99m2
The Il-112 measures 24m x 27.5m wingspan with a wing surface of 65m2

The cargo bay of the An-72 with D-436 is 10.5m long excluding the ramp and can carry 4 specific pallets of 1.90m wide x 2.4m long with up to 2500kg each. With 7500 kg it can travel 2500 km
The cargo hold of the Il-112V is 8.5 meters long, so it could only carry 3 standard pallets of 2.3x2.7 (463 liters) but it could not lift them because they could weigh 9 tons or more

What is intended with the Il-212 is the same body of the Il-112 but to extend the central section by about 3.5-4 meters, so that the plane has a length of 27.5 to 28 meters (like the An-72), a larger wing of more than 30 meters of wingspan and a wing surface of about 100 m2
Larger wing is also more fuel. Il-112 can load 7200 l. or 6 tons of fuel. An-72 can load +13 tons

Then, the cargo bay will be increased to 11,5-12 meters (also 2.45 meters wide). Thus it could safely carry 4 standar pallets of about 3000kg or more. The Antonov 12 itself could carry at most 5 pallets of 2.7, but I doubt it, too tight in a 13.5m hold, It is most likely that it can only carry 4 pallets, like the short C-130.

Talking only about weight is almost irrelevant
I don't know the exact size of standard pallets in Russia, but NATO aircraft can carry the following quantities of standar pallets 463 L:

C-295 - 4 (only half max capacity of each pallet)
C-130 short - 4
C-130J - 6
KC-390 - 7 ? (probably 5 + 2 on the ramp)
A-400M - 9 (7 + 2 on the ramp)
C-17 - 18 (9x2 in two parallel rows)

If the An-12 can carry 4 or at most 5 pallets and the Il-212 can carry 4, that's all there is to know
The Il-212 will do all the regional transport for the VKS

@Mir

From what I can gather in the Russian aviation press the IL-276 is currently under development.

I am not interested in industry propaganda or in the corruption of its pro-Western liberal managers who should be purged
The only thing to take into account is what the Ministry of Defense says
In Russia, the military orders the industry to develop products, unlike in the West, where the industry imposes on the military the developments that interest it in order to make huge profits

For the moment, the Russian MoD has ordered the cancellation of the Il-112 and the development of the prototype of the Il-212
In addition to the Il-76MD-90A and the modernized Il-76MD-M and An-124-100 including the D-18T engine

Everything else is propaganda and drawings on a paper that do not correspond to the VKS, whether the industry can sell some model abroad or not is another question, but I doubt it

https://www.cavok.com.br/uac-da-russia-iniciou-desenvolvimento-de-aeronave-de-transporte-militar-il-212-com-motores-pd-8

Image of the Il-212 based on the Il-112 with PD-8 engines in the style of the An-72
It looks like an assembly of the Il-112 body with the engines and wings of the An-72. However, the fuselage would have to be lengthened by several meters.


Another image of the Il-212 with the engines positioned under the wing

The last picture is actually a fake!

Here is the original - it's the Il-276  

@Garry, you know that noone of this plans would be able to come to fruit before the next decade?

I get it.... you think everything has to happen now or it is shit. Like a 12 year old.

They need Russian replacements for foreign and obsolete Soviet stuff... if it takes one year or ten years... that is what it takes... the foreign stuff is not going to suddenly be reliable and the Soviet stuff is not going to suddenly be available again brand new and super cheap.

Don't confuse Russian with rushing.

There are lots of things to do and it can't all be done at one time... patience... but also common sense... so many are so quick to throw away work done when starting from scratch is slow and hard.

As far as the il-112v, he's dead, Jim

First of all it was pretty much ready for serial production and just lacked the ideal engine. A PD-8 engine is going to be fitted as a stopgap to get the job done and to also replace the An-72, but when a suitable turboprop engine is available to allow it to do the job at a fraction of the cost why would they kill this ready to go design?

That is just stupid.

You don't save any money by developing something to the point where it is ready to make and then cancelling it... that is stupid.

The Il-212 is not just a conversion of il-112v with jet engine, it is basically a complete redesign.

If that was true it will take 10 years to design a new plane from scratch, which you know is bullshit.

They need to redesign parts of the wing and the fuel system for the jet engines but otherwise the enlarged fuselage designed for bulky loads will still be used because it is still required and when they have new propeller engines ready they will complete the Il-112V because it will be cheaper to use like the An-26 vs the An-72 which is why the An-72 never actually replaced the An-26.

The UAC makes planes... they make plane the Russian military does not need or want too because they can sell those as well.

The Il-212 needs basically to be a wider and bulkier An-72.

Why? The Il-112 was already enlarged over the An-26 allowing 44 armed soldiers to be carried instead of 38. The internal cargo bay is already enlarged and you complained that it made it slow and increased drag reduced its performance and payload capacity... but as mentioned volume can often be rather more important than payload weight capacity...

Redesigning the aircraft further is just going to create further delays and problems.

They could eventually do a turboprop conversion of the il-212, but it will not have more in common with the il-112v than with any other turboprop aircrafts.

So a design that is ready to go bar the engines needs to be completely redesigned from scratch to be a totally different aircraft just because of an engine change...

Why?

How could you possibly justify such a stupid and costly and time wasting move?

Changing the engines to PD-8s was not supposed to slow things down, but speed things up because it was expected to be a faster solution than improvements to the engines were expected to take.

Ironically the Il-114 with the same engines is now moving forward with improvement in power and reliability of the engines reported so the Il-112V might be a faster solution now... but the Il-212 has merit as well as it can replace the An-72 in production too.

Best of both worlds... they get a jet to replace a jet and a prop and a prop to keep it cheap if you don't want the expense of a jet.

Hopefully it will have characteristics more similar to the C-27j (ideally a bit longer cargo hold) or An-8.

What is your fixation with the C-27?

I know that in many occasions size is more limiting than weight important than weight, but this is true above a certain minimum weigh payload capabilities.  I.e. no need to use a An-124 when a beluga equivalent (like the proposed il-96-500 could do the same).

The Myasishchev VM-T was the aircraft used before the An-225 and its payload capacity was about 15 tons, but it could carry huge external loads on its back.

When they make the cargo bay larger they make the plane bigger and with more drag which means more engine power is needed to move it and it goes slower and shorter distances for a given amount of fuel.

Nothing is for free... making an An-24 with an An-124s height and width cargo bay would be stupid and you haven't explained why a replacement for the An-26 needs the capacity of the An-12.

Based on what has been said I would say it is not the AN-12 size you want but the Il-76 because that seems to be getting used instead of the An-12... and the Il-276 is the ideal solution to that.

But spend a lot of money to do max 5 tons payload aircraft does not make sense, and the same engine as the il-114 is not enough instead for a modern equivalent of the An-8 (or a Russian equivalent of the C-27j).

I would say the combined purchase of the Il-112 and the Il-212 is the perfect solution getting the best of both worlds in aircraft smaller than the An-12 that can perform the roles of the An-26 and An-72 and with the Il-114 the An-24 as well.

Perfect.

The Il-276 replacing the An-12 means cargo size wont be a problem unless it is too big for an Il-476 too...

And yeah this could be done in parallel with a longer version with twice the power, to have a similar relationship that C-27j -C130 or An-8 -An-12 have.

If you want a bigger cabin size why go for the smaller sizes when the Il-476 can be made shorter and lighter with a bigger cabin  cross section for larger loads.

For 5 tons, if they really need it a rear ramp version of the Ladoga could be ready by latest 2029 (and probably earlier). 2400 hp engine is enough for this kind of load.

You do understand what you are saying... the Ladoga uses the same damn engine that you say renders the Il-112 cancelled... if you are cancelling the Il-112 then cancel the Ladoga and the Baikal too because they use the same engine.

But you have bias against the Il-112 clearly as it is already designed with a rear ramp and if the engines on the Ladoga are ready to go then the Il-112 should also be ready to go.

The cargo bay would be practically the same as the An-26 or the proposed An-140T (I.e about

length 10,2 m, width 2,27 m, height 1,89 m)

SO a total fucking waste of time because the Il-112 has a bigger cargo bay to improve capacity... the Ladoga is replacing old shit with old shit (L-610).

No other new aircraft can be ready before such aircraft.

The Il-212 is a jet powered transport to replace the An-26 and An-72 and if they need a propeller driven replacement they wont take the Ladoga because they already have the Il-112 ready to go but needing new engines. The Ladoga would need new engines too and a bigger cargo bay and a rear ramp door... the Il-112 just needs the engines.

Iran did also a An-140 modification with rear ramp and some modification to wings and structures ,(the An-140T was only a paper plane and Antonov never did the rear ramp cargo version of the An-140

Iran did a lot of things but Russia has no reason to copy them because Russia has Russian designs to use instead.

while the Ladoga uses the more modern TV7-117-ST-02 with similar power.

That could be fitted to the Il-112V when it is reliable and mature.

Russia can probably do a new propfan based on the PD-8 (the propeller/fan and the main gearbox were made by russian Aerosila), it is just a matter of time and money.

Not urgent.

and in 2019 was announced a competition between the two projects, but then the decision was postponed and no work is apparently being done with either of them.

They are the most obvious solutions to the problem at hand, so unless something dramatically changes they will be the solutions applied when they are needed.

They clearly are working on other more important problems for the moment.

At the end of the day if all the An-24/26/72/12 aircraft suddenly disappeared the Russian air force would not cease to operate.... they would just use their larger aircraft and burn more fuel and there would be more delays and problems moving things around.

Smaller lighter cheaper aircraft get things where they need to be smoother and at less cost and delay.

Eventually when it is seen as most important they will start making smaller planes again to fill the gaps.

Topic closed?

Answer- Today, yes. We are focused on fulfilling strategic, special and civil aviation missions.

He is not saying the Tu-330 is dead, he is saying there is no time or money or resources now because their main job is replacing western airliners in Russian airliner use and likely to eventually replace obsolete airliner types in Russian military use too. Once that is much closer to being sorted out they can start to look at what all those factories making Tu-214s could make over the next few years when demand for airliners starts to decline but demand for transport planes remains or increases.

So maybe the Tu-330 project can be restarted, but it will be after all work on the Tu-214 import substitution and modernisation will be finished, not before.

That is what I am saying and have been saying... there is no urgency to get them in service right now, but serial mass production of the Tu-214 and its life time improvements and upgrades and likely introduction into the Russian military to replace obsolete types means it has a future and production of modifications including transport types just makes sense for most operators of both types.

Most of the problems are engine related so when engines start serial mass production aircraft production can expand and diversify...

The SM-100 engine is going to improve the performance of the Yak-130 and the MiG-UTS and the commonality of parts and engines is going to be a good thing moving forward.

As far as the Il-276, Ilyushin also has already too much on its plate, i.e. il-114, il-212 and eventually the civilian widebody airliner il-96 derivative (unless that will be given to Yakovlev).

Any other solution to the An-12 problem is going to be much more work and much more effort and is going to be unrelated to other in service types offering no compatibility and commonality. The Il-276 is a shorter Il-476 with a smaller wing and just two engines.

If they don't want to they don't even have to move the engines above the wings to start with... but as they are doing it with the Il-212 I would think there would be overlap of testing and design there too.

Eventually they might want a turboprop version for lower operating costs and the engines and propellers for the An-70 might be a good solution for the Il-276 to replace the An-12 in some roles where propellers are better, and for the Il-476 to actually offer an An-70 type solution for the VDV if they still want it.

I doubt the lack of update is due to secrecy.

More likely waiting for engine options and available production factories and perhaps even seeing if not having An-12 replacements is even a problem.

Maybe they need An-72s more than they need An-12s, in which case the Il-212 is the best solution, or maybe the Il-76 whose larger cargo bay solves problems, in which case the Il-276 might be a better solution.

If there had been progress on the il-276 we would have known It by now.

If you want to claim no news is evidence it is cancelled, I would argue that is not logical.

News about aircraft is not about constant updates like social media... it is normally about milestones... first flight, certification of engines, that sort of thing... but most of the stuff for the Il-276 also goes into the Il-476 so engines being ready for the Il-276 wont register because they would be sorted as Il-476 engines... systems and avionics for the Il-476 being used on the Il-276 might not register a mention either.

This means that even if they restart now with il-276, it will not be in service before earliest 2031.

You made that date up with nothing to back that up, but even if it is accurate... so what... do you think Russia will buy Chinese or Brazilian transport planes or restart production of Antonovs in the new regions of Russia faster than that? Cheaper than that?

What is the rush?

There are other problems that need more urgent attention.

Lack of a replacement for an An-12 or An-24 or An-26 or An-72 is only a problem if you keep using worn out aircraft that start crashing. Spending more money on fuel to use much larger aircraft to do the job is not going to be the worst problem.... making transport planes when you need airliners to replace foreign types is vastly more urgent... imagine if the war ends in 6 months time and the west drops its sanctions and Russian airlines keep using western planes again and start dumping their new Russian planes for new deals from Boeing and Airbus and other companies that funded Kiev.

Finally, why do you want to have so many il-76 derivative? It is an old design much older than the An-124.

It is Russian and has been thoroughly upgraded and improved and with new engines can remain world class and reliable.

A lighter model replacing the An-12 solves the issues of having to use the bigger (Il-76) for jobs the An-12 is not big enough despite having the payload weight capacity.

The Il-276 has the same cargo bay dimensions except length so you wont need to get a larger heavier plane for a bulky item that does not fit in the smaller aircraft.

the il-276 won be as cheap to operate as the An-12 but should be cheaper than the Il-476.

I believe you have a grudge against the An-124 just because it was designed in the Antonov Design bureau. The Slon is anyway just a An-124 derivative.

Not Russian, and Soviet era stuff should be the first to go.

Russia does not own the design rights to Antonov designs which means they don't on them and can't sell them and use them without worrying about what Antonov might do around the world... they have seized An-124 transport planes in Canada.

Slon is a programme and likely will include designs from Tupolev and Ilyusion and other departments. There is no reason to believe it will just be a copy of the An-124... if it was then it should be ready for production only needing its new engines.

I would guess that one design bureau might upgrade an existing type and another bureau might go for something unusual.

Like the Su-25 when  MiG was looking at ground attack versions of the MiG-21.

Only transport aircrafts which have chances to be in serial production before 2030 are:

That is OK. The Il-114 and other types that are not transport planes as such are going into serial production and of course the Superjet, MS-21 and Tu-214, and the Tu-96 in limited rate production too... that is actually quite a few really considering over the last 30 years the planes they had been working on failed like the AN-70... and various other new antonovs.

Ladoga rear ramp derivative (maybe, but would need about 3 years develoment starting from baseline Ladoga if we consider also similari work for An-24 into An-26 or the iranian work on the Simurgh from the An-140 (which could also be taken into account, since the Ladoga had the same fuselage section size as the An-140).

Would make no sense as the Ladoga has the same cargo bay size as the An-26, whereas the Il-112 has a bigger cargo bay size on purpose by design because the customer wanted that and it is even going to be used on the Il-212 too.

The Ladoga and Baikal and Il-114 and Il-112 and Mi-38 and Altius drone all use the same basic engine... if the Ladoga is ready then so can the Il-112 be ready.

The Il-212 makes a cargo version of the Ladoga even less likely... it would be quicker and more sensible to make a cargo version  of the Il-114... which would have commonality with the Il-114s they will be using to replace the An-24.

No other military cargo aircraft can enter production in Russia in the next 5 years (including Il-276 or Tu-330).

So what? Why do you think they need an instant replacement for the An-12 which has been being retired from active service for the last 20 years now as mentioned being replaced in use by the An-72 and Il-76 types.

That can continue and if they decide they do need a plane between the il-476 and the Il-212 then a reduced size Il-476 makes the most sense and would be the quickest, but a Tu-330 would also be sensible too in my opinion... there is room for both in this world... they would sell well in my opinion.

From what I can gather in the Russian aviation press the IL-276 is currently under development.

If an An-12 replacement is needed it is the fastest and most elegant solution in my opinion.

Essentially it is the An-8 and An-12 with jet engines where the An-8 is the Il-276 and the An-12 is the Il-476.... except with larger cargo bays and much more power etc.

As I mentioned above wing engine mounts might improve the Il-276 for rough field operations and FOD issues... they are also doing the same with the Il-212 so they can piggy back the design and reworking of the wing and access procedures etc etc.

Such an aircraft is in high demand in the Russian aerospace forces, as the existing An-12 class of aircraft are...obsolete and will be completely decommissioned by 2030.

In computer speak you have patches to deal with problems as you find them and you release updates to fix the problem.

At the moment using other types like the An-72 and Il-76 allow cargo to move, but the ultimate solution will be the Il-276 whose production could be in new factories that could start making more Il-476s while it makes a few prototype Il-276s for testing and certification to boost Il-476 production and then when the Il-276 is ready it should be able to make Il-276s faster than it can make Il-476s which should also take some pressure off the Il-476s which wont be used for tiny loads or short distances any more.

Considering that Ilyushin one and half years ago switched from the il-112v to the il-212 which will have larger fuselage and higher payload, we can probably imagine that it could cover for some of the tasks that then new medium military transport aircraft would have covered.

None of the sources I have seen talk about a complete redesign of the Il-212... they all talk about engine change and wing rework for overwing mounted engines and coander effect adjustments and changes and a new fuel system and improved undercarriage, but nothing about changes to the fuselage...

The whole point of the designation is new engines but otherwise the same because the il-112 was designed for the job... the engines have changed but the job wont have changed that much.

(...)Accordingly, the aircraft's wing and chassis will be redesigned, and new fuel and hydraulic systems will be installed," the agency's source said.
(...)According to the agency's source, the range, payload capacity and dimensions of the cargo cabin are still being developed. "For now, we can only say with certainty that the new aircraft will have a greater payload capacity due to more powerful engines," he said.

I would read that to mean they are not sure of the changes in payload capacity and range and speed based on the change of engines in the overwing position.

New wing and fuel and undercarriage systems... but no mention of a new cabin because that would require all the aerodynamic and structural testing to start from square one again... they might as well start from scratch.

They will take 10 years to make this brand new plane.

So earliest that the il-212 can enter service would be 2030. Do you believe that any other project from Ilyushin could be faster?

So what?

The An-12s will continue until they have no airframe life left and Il-76s will do the job till an alternative is available.

It is not the end of the world.

By the way: in 2022 a cargo version of the Ladoga with rear ramp has been presented, so it is not just my speculation.

Which essentially is an An-26 that has no cargo bay advantages at all... better off with An-72s till the Il-212 and Il-112 are ready.

I do not know if they are already doing work on it, but its development and tests should not require more than 3 years in top of the one on the baseline Ladoga.

A czech design with Antonov modifications with the same engine they rejected for the Il-112.

Adopting the cargo Ladoga makes no sense... it would be quicker and easier to make a cargo version of the Il-114.

Why do you think that the future Russian cargo segment of up to 12 tons of payload will be represented by manned aircraft rather than UAVs?

Would need to be heavily regulated and controlled because even without malicious intent having platforms with no people on board flying around with 10 ton payloads that could fly into buildings or even nuclear power plants is potentially an issue.

The drones that deliver 250kg payloads to far away small places are excellent and would make a lot of sense delivering good or people.

As for the rumors about new medium-sized transporters, there are currently no aircraft factories in Russia that are not loaded with existing production programs.

Il-276 could be made at an existing Il-476 factory or new factories could be built to make either as the demand for both is likely to be rather strong.

Domestically and internationally.

Money to be made.

Anyway I find it hard to believe that both the An-12 and the An-26 will vanish without a suitable replacement (either manned or unmanned) - it does not make sense at all.

Even for the Russian military such small types are efficient problem solvers for some jobs that don't require bigger aircraft and free up those bigger aircraft for jobs more suited to their capacity.

It is normal, because for many years there were no new civilian airliners (only exceptions were the regional jets an-148 in Voronezh and the SJ100 in konsomolsk on Amur) and no transport aircraft being built, so the factories not involved in fighters production were losing capabilities and personnel.

Russian airline operators are to blame for not supporting their own aircraft industry, it would have been much better able to respond if it had been properly supported before.

The only existing plant currently without planned production is the privately owned Aviakor in Samara, which is in difficult economic situation and that is supporting UZGA with producing parts for the Ladoga aircraft

And that is part of the problem.... the factories and design companies that did support domestic production suffered for it with no big commercial orders and only a few orders from the military where the profit margin is tight and banks are cruel.

Even if the Russian military does not buy a single Il-276 or Tu-330 the international market should be significant because while not as cheap as an An-12 they will be much cheaper than western equivalents and also make significant profits for the Russian producers to foreign and domestic commercial buyers and operators.

The An-70 would have sold well too but when Kiev rejected Russia the EU didn't want competition for its own A-400M so they went out of their way to kill Antonov.

The west does not play fair... it protects its own so instead of producing superior vaccines or superior electric vehicles or superior transport planes the west would rather their own people died of covid and their shitty vaccine experimental chemicals, and crappy western electric cars... you get the point.

The west pretends to care about human life and the health of the planet and market forces allowing the best product to win in the market place... but it is all bullshit... their drug companies and car companies and aircraft companies failed them but rather than go for the foreign superior product they doubled down and sabotaged the competition with sanctions and fake news.

**** the people of europe and the world... big pharma and big european car companies and big european aerospace companies have to be free to sell their inferior and sometimes dangerous products... it is about patriotism.

Many people and politicians in Saratov are lobbying to build a new aircraft plant there, I posted a few links to articles from August -october 2024 in the military aviation industry thread.

They are going to need a lot more Il-276 and Il-476 aircraft for domestic use and export over the next few decades.

If Russia were really desperate for An-12 replacement before that, the only feasible possibility is to buy one or two dozens Y-8 or Y9 from China. Maybe they could order kits from China and at least assemble them in Russia (i.e. Voronezh, since large serial production of the il-212 will not start before 2029/ 2030).

That makes no sense... it would actually be cheaper to bear the increased fuel costs of using larger aircraft to do the jobs until new aircraft are ready.

The Il-112 just needed more engine power and improved reliability and according to the tests with the Il-114 the engine power is up to 4,500hp and reliability has improved too...

If that is the case production of the Il-112 could start and the production of the Il-212 could start when it is ready and has passed its tests.

The IL-112V, as I have said many times, was crap, with very little wing surface and wingspan for such a fat body. In addition to very weak engines.

It has increased volume you were complaining that some transports lack.

The engines started as helicopter engines and were being worked on to improve power and reliability and it has supposedly been achieved in the version being used with the Il-114... which was similar to the one for the Il-112V because both were grounded when the Il-112V crashed.

The cargo hold of the Il-112V is 8.5 meters long, so it could only carry 3 standard pallets of 2.3x2.7 (463 liters) but it could not lift them because they could weigh 9 tons or more

I would confidently say they would only load the aircraft to its weight capacity.... that is pretty normal for all transport aircraft.

Being able to carry three pallets is rather good in terms of volume.

Even if they can't be filled with lead.

If the An-12 can carry 4 or at most 5 pallets and the Il-212 can carry 4, that's all there is to know
The Il-212 will do all the regional transport for the VKS

Having a slightly smaller Il-112 with propeller engines operating much cheaper but also slower and with lighter loads also makes sense... especially when it is already ready and just needs the engines to get to the point where they are good enough.

It should be good to go now based on what they are saying about the engine with the Il-114 and if performance isn't good enough then in 5 years time upgrade the engines with a few more thousands of hp to boost performance.

I am not interested in industry propaganda or in the corruption of its pro-Western liberal managers who should be purged
The only thing to take into account is what the Ministry of Defense says

Airlines in Russia could order an Il-276 to replace the An-12 in their service... it does not need to be a military order, and UAC could use the extra profit margin of civilian sales of aircraft to boost their profits and get many subcontractors out of debt.

For the moment, the Russian MoD has ordered the cancellation of the Il-112 and the development of the prototype of the Il-212

Cancellation is the wrong word... the design has not been discarded and never to see the light of day ever again... with a suitable engine it is a viable design that meets its goals even if it doesn't achieve superiority over western paper planes that Russia could never buy because of their US and western components that would be sanctioned if they are not already.

Who gives a shit if a C-27J can fly further and has big shiny silver wheel rims that sparkle in the sunshine.

The job is replacing cold war soviet shit with new Russian stuff... not everything needs to be replaced immediately, some might not even need to be replaced at all, but the core of the problem is that replacing civilian airliners is the top priority right now and the Russian military is taking second place until that gets sorted out.

Russia has the Il-476 workhorse and their focus is getting those into mass serial production because they are used heavily and hit a sweet spot of not being too big and expensive, but also being big enough for most jobs.

The factories ready to make new An-124s... which the don't need... they are not even using all the An-124s they currently have and the engine situation for the ones they do have wont be sorted till about 2027 so replacing non Russian parts and upgrading those in operation and in storage ready for new engines starting in 2027 makes good sense. Making brand new airframes without having the engines for existing examples let alone the new builds is just stupid.

A factory ready to build An-124s would be ideal to build prototypes of the Slon and Slon jnr... which might be Ilyusion or Tupolev or Myasischev for all we know, but making a prototype and getting some flight experience is more important than cranking out a few extra An-124s. A twin engined Slon would be useful as soon as it could be gotten into service for the same reason the An-22 was useful as a lighter cheaper alternative to the An-124.

Over time and as pressure is reduced on a lot of centres the Russian military is going to realise the An-26 continued to be used after the An-12 and Il-76 became available because it was cheap and simple to use and for some jobs that is useful... more useful when it and other things you use like drones and helicopters and Il-114s all use a related engine with related parts that is cheap to run and support.

I wrote about the timescales because it seemed to me that some users thought other projects (including the il-276) could be ready within a couple of years.

As far as the il-112v, it had a wrongly designed (and manufactured) wing, a wrong weight distribution and probably there were other issues.

They were trying to solve them (the prototype who later crashed needed to carry also a lot of "ballast" in the front in order to be airworthy, which limited further its payload), but the only way to fix them, without doing some sort of temporary fix and compromising anyway its performance would have been anyway to go back to the drawing board and recheck also the requirements.

They tried as much as possible to salvage the project, but at the end what they can salvage will be the experience, some lessons learned, some design concepts and some of the subsystem designs.

As far as the TVRS-44 Ladoga, this "Czech design with Antonov modifications" is a high wing airplane (as the An-24) and has been selected by Russia as the An-24 successor. It will cover a slightly different niche than the 68 passengers il-114 (which is a low wing airplane).

It is not a proposal from just from UZGA, it has been confirmed from russian state officials. The civilian turboprop will be produced in decent numbers.

Current government plans are to receive 35 Ladoga per year starting from 2028 (and 12 il-114 per year starting from 2027 (but in theory already 3 il-114 delivered in 2026)).

The military cargo modification is just a proposal, but it is a easier starting point.
And since the An-26 was a military cargo derivative of the An-24, I thought that it would not be crazy if the An-26 successor will be a derivative of the An-24 successor.

GarryB wrote:the Ladoga uses the same damn engine that you say renders the Il-112 cancelled... if you are cancelling the Il-112 then cancel the Ladoga and the Baikal too because they use the same engine.

But you have bias against the Il-112 clearly as it is already designed with a rear ramp and if the engines on the Ladoga are ready to go then the Il-112 should also be ready to go.

As far as its engine, 2400 to 2600 hp (for the TV7-117ST-02) are perfectly adequate for an aircraft of that size with about 5 tons payload.  If more power is needed they could use the TV7-117ST-01 of the il-114 which can be rated between 2800 and 3100 hp at max takeoff power).

It was not enough, however, for the il-112V because of the larger fuselage and wrong aerodynamics.

Anyway, to have a turboprop aircraft with the desired characteristics (increased payload and larger cargo bay than the An-26 / TVRS-44T) they need to wait until the new engine (probably the PDV-4000) will be ready.

https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/9271731

Last info I have on this engine was from army 2020 (august 2020) when they were expecting the first prototype to be assembled in 2025, but lack of new information and the work on PD-8, VK-650 and VK-1600 (and the upgrades/modifications to the TV7-117) possibly have caused a temporary stop to such project, so I doubt it will be certified before the end of the decade.

GarryB wrote:What is your fixation with the C-27?

Just that it has a cargo bay 3.33 m wide and 2.60 m heigh, and has a payload of about 11 tons with two 4600 hp engines.

The il-112v, even with a much narrower cargo bay (than the C-27J) would have needed at least two 4000 hp engines just to hope arriving to 5 tons payload. 

And the cargo bay of the il-112v is just 20 cm wider than the one of the An-26 (2.42 vs 2.2 m) (its only real advantage is the cargo bay height), which with 2 turboprop engines with max takeoff power of 2800 hp had a max payload of 6 tons.