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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #18

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    Post  Guest Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:21 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    Erk wrote:
    medo wrote:

    Novorussian army find in Lugansk airport an Ukrainian cache of US made weapons, where they also got Stinger MANPADs from US Army.

    Which is pretty funny considering NAF have no aircraft, just goes to show how aware the US is sending them MANPADS.
    At that stage there was probably thinking that Russian aircraft or helicopters may appear.
    The Ukrops were expecting a full out invasion at first.

    I'm surprised that they were able to get foreign MANPADS so quickly after the liberation of Crimea really. I don't think these weapons were supplied by the US but rather friendly NATO country nearby.

    There were FIM-92s found in Chechnya during the Second War. I think they found out that those launchers came from Turkey.
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    Post  Erk Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:34 pm



    Heavy fire fight between DNR and Ukraine forces on front line bordering Peski and Donetsk.

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    Post  Flagship Victory Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:39 pm

    whir wrote:
    lnr.today wrote:Airport Luhansk found "Stingers" (operational mode) / # LNRsegodnya

    Finders keepers. Cool Beef ravioli? buuurr
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    Post  JohninMK Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:21 am

    Fascinating stuff here, Yarosh not as dumb as he might appear?

    Right Sector changing sides? By Jacek Kaminski Translated from Polish by J.Hawk

    Right Sector to changing sides? Right Sector leader Yarosh declared himself in favor of Ukraine's non-aligned and against joining the EU and NATO. This position diverges from the official Kiev stance, but it converges with that of the Ukrainian opposition, including the Donbass insurgents. Yarosh also made a conciliatory reference to the "Donbass miners."

    "The Right Sector has not been and is not in favor of Ukraine joining the EU. We believe that Ukraine ought to be a subject, not an object, of geopolitics. We are in favor of Ukraine's non-aligned status. Like the Donbass miners, we are against NATO bases in Ukraine, which means we are against Ukraine's NATO membership. We are talking both to people who favor the EU and those who desire an alliance with Russia. I'd like to emphasize: we are in favor of Ukraine's non-aligned status," Yarosh said on TV channel Ukraine.

    Yarosh also said that the Right Sector will not march on Donetsk. "Donbass is our own, Ukrainian land, therefore I am counting on normal relations with people who live there. I have no problem entering into a dialogue with the miners, I myself come from the Dnepropetrovsk Region. It's not all cut and dried in the Donetsk Region. These very miners in 1989-1990 played an important role ensuring USSR fell apart and Ukraine became an independent country," Yarosh argued.

    After the Mukachevo clash on July 11 the Right Sector withdrew its battalions from the Donbass front. DPR head Aleksandr Zakharchenko then spoke about Yarosh with respect, praising him for daring to confront the Poroshenko regime. The left-wing Prizrak Brigade of the LPR have more than once called on the volunteer battalions to stop the internecine war and march on Kiev together in order to overthrow the oligarch junta.


    Comments at http://fortruss.blogspot.co.uk/2015/07/right-sector-changing-sides.html
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    Post  JohninMK Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:37 am

    Do we believe him?

    KYIV, July 22 /Ukrinform/. President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko hopes that the offer of the Ukrainian side to withdraw heavy weapons and establish a 30-kilometer buffer zone along the contact line in Donbas, supported in Minsk yesterday, will mean the start of a real ceasefire.

    The President said this at the meeting with the activists of Luhansk region in Severodonetsk, an Ukrinform correspondent reports. "I may tell you the latest news from Minsk. I instructed our representatives in the Trilateral Contact Group to immediately sign the agreement with the OSCE and the Russian side to ensure the establishment of a 30-kilometer buffer zone along the contact line. Another requirement is to withdraw all remaining artillery, tanks, and mortars. Yesterday, our diplomatic efforts were crowned with success. Yesterday in Minsk, the initiatives of the Ukrainian side were approved. In few days a countdown for heavy weaponry withdrawal under OSCE control will start," Poroshenko said.

    The Head of State expressed hope that would be the start of a real cease-fire, a real withdrawal of heavy weapons and artillery, a hostage release, and ensuring the effective control of the OSCE over observance of the agreements.
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    Post  flamming_python Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:47 am

    JohninMK wrote:"The Right Sector has not been and is not in favor of Ukraine joining the EU. We believe that Ukraine ought to be a subject, not an object, of geopolitics. We are in favor of Ukraine's non-aligned status. Like the Donbass miners, we are against NATO bases in Ukraine, which means we are against Ukraine's NATO membership. We are talking both to people who favor the EU and those who desire an alliance with Russia. I'd like to emphasize: we are in favor of Ukraine's non-aligned status," Yarosh said on TV channel Ukraine.

    Pfffff

    DPR head Aleksandr Zakharchenko then spoke about Yarosh with respect, praising him for daring to confront the Poroshenko regime. The left-wing Prizrak Brigade of the LPR have more than once called on the volunteer battalions to stop the internecine war and march on Kiev together in order to overthrow the oligarch junta. [/i]

    Pfffffff!  tongue

    WTF am I reading here  Rolling Eyes

    Right Sektor is far more useful as an enemy than as a friend. And after all they've done, they can't just be forgiven. Besides, allying with neo-nazis out of convenience will make the DNR/LNR as bad as Kiev at least in one way.

    Actually Right Sektor declaring the Ukraine's neutrality is not a new thing. They said exactly the same thing before Yanukovich was overthrown; they were never fans of Western values and were pragmatic enough to want to co-operate with Russia - they actually said this before openly.
    Which is nice, but then they went on to say all that not so nice Nazi stuff; Ukraine is for Ukrainians and that the Ukrainian language uber alles, etc.. etc.. etc.. and then of course all the other stuff they've done since.
    Repressive and violent Ukrainization of the whole of the Ukraine and all its people in return for a neutral Ukraine? Sorry Nazis, no deal.
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    Post  flamming_python Thu Jul 23, 2015 1:01 am

    JohninMK wrote:Do we believe him?

    KYIV, July 22 /Ukrinform/. President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko hopes that the offer of the Ukrainian side to withdraw heavy weapons and establish a 30-kilometer buffer zone along the contact line in Donbas, supported in Minsk yesterday, will mean the start of a real ceasefire.

    The President said this at the meeting with the activists of Luhansk region in Severodonetsk, an Ukrinform correspondent reports. "I may tell you the latest news from Minsk. I instructed our representatives in the Trilateral Contact Group to immediately sign the agreement with the OSCE and the Russian side to ensure the establishment of a 30-kilometer buffer zone along the contact line. Another requirement is to withdraw all remaining artillery, tanks, and mortars. Yesterday, our diplomatic efforts were crowned with success. Yesterday in Minsk, the initiatives of the Ukrainian side were approved. In few days a countdown for heavy weaponry withdrawal under OSCE control will start," Poroshenko said.

    The Head of State expressed hope that would be the start of a real cease-fire, a real withdrawal of heavy weapons and artillery, a hostage release, and ensuring the effective control of the OSCE over observance of the agreements.

    No we don't believe him, unless you can find me at least one statement that fat tub of shit read out before that didn't turn out to be a complete fabrication.
    All he's been doing is lying, and lying, and lying more. He's got it down to a routine. He lied to his own electorate, he lied to his soldiers, he lied to his parliament, he lied to his people, he lied to the people of the Donbass, he lied to the Europeans, he lied to the Russians, he lied to the OSCE, and he's lying now - not a single one of his campaign promises in the mockery of the elections that the unconstitutional Ukrainian government organized has he carried out, nor the pay he promised to the soldiers, nor the end of the war he promised, nor the abidance with the Minsk agreement, withdrawal of artillery or anything else.

    He's never done anything to indicate that he has even the slightest amount of integrity, or is capable of holding his word or any sort of agrement, written or verbal, formal or informal.
    There is no reason to assume that he's about to start either.

    The question you should ask instead, John, is 'why should we believe him'? And why now?
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    Post  JohninMK Thu Jul 23, 2015 1:24 am

    flamming_python wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:Do we believe him?

    KYIV, July 22 /Ukrinform/. President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko hopes that the offer of the Ukrainian side to withdraw heavy weapons and establish a 30-kilometer buffer zone along the contact line in Donbas, supported in Minsk yesterday, will mean the start of a real ceasefire.

    The President said this at the meeting with the activists of Luhansk region in Severodonetsk, an Ukrinform correspondent reports. "I may tell you the latest news from Minsk. I instructed our representatives in the Trilateral Contact Group to immediately sign the agreement with the OSCE and the Russian side to ensure the establishment of a 30-kilometer buffer zone along the contact line. Another requirement is to withdraw all remaining artillery, tanks, and mortars. Yesterday, our diplomatic efforts were crowned with success. Yesterday in Minsk, the initiatives of the Ukrainian side were approved. In few days a countdown for heavy weaponry withdrawal under OSCE control will start," Poroshenko said.

    The Head of State expressed hope that would be the start of a real cease-fire, a real withdrawal of heavy weapons and artillery, a hostage release, and ensuring the effective control of the OSCE over observance of the agreements.

    No we don't believe him, unless you can find me at least one statement that fat tub of shit read out before that didn't turn out to be a complete fabrication.
    All he's been doing is lying, and lying, and lying more. He's got it down to a routine. He lied to his own electorate, he lied to his soldiers, he lied to his parliament, he lied to his people, he lied to the people of the Donbass, he lied to the Europeans, he lied to the Russians, he lied to the OSCE, and he's lying now - not a single one of his campaign promises in the mockery of the elections that the unconstitutional Ukrainian government organized has he carried out, nor the pay he promised to the soldiers, nor the end of the war he promised, nor the abidance with the Minsk agreement, withdrawal of artillery or anything else.

    He's never done anything to indicate that he has even the slightest amount of integrity, or is capable of holding his word or any sort of agrement, written or verbal, formal or informal.
    There is no reason to assume that he's about to start either.

    The question you should ask instead, John, is 'why should we believe him'? And why now?
    I agree that, based on history, his words are not to be trusted. More interesting is your final question. Why did he comment at all and when he did, to leap in with both feet? The only thing that I can think of is that this week is crucial for money flow from the EU and IMF into Ukraine.
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    Post  Zivo Thu Jul 23, 2015 2:18 am

    Flagship Victory wrote:
    whir wrote:
    lnr.today wrote:Airport Luhansk found "Stingers" (operational mode) / # LNRsegodnya

    Finders keepers.  Cool  Beef ravioli? buuurr

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #18 - Page 13 LiveLeak-dot-com-c28_1437579318-4_1437579727

    At least one of them was a inert training weapon. There's no way to know if the other ones were actual weapons based on the pics I've seen. If any of you find more photos of the cache, post them please.
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    Post  PapaDragon Thu Jul 23, 2015 2:54 am

    Right Sector & Porky's recent statements = HOLY PERUN, WHAT THE F*CK AM I RADING HERE!!! confused Shocked

    But after thinking about it explanation is simple:  clear sign of ukrop infighting and desperation if there ever was one. thumbsup

    Whatever it is that NAF has been doing so far, they should keep doing it. respekt
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    Post  kvs Thu Jul 23, 2015 3:22 am

    PapaDragon wrote:Right Sector & Porky's recent statements = HOLY PERUN, WHAT THE F*CK AM I RADING HERE!!! confused Shocked

    But after thinking about it explanation is simple:  clear sign of ukrop infighting and desperation if there ever was one. thumbsup

    Whatever it is that NAF has been doing so far, they should keep doing it. respekt

    The economy must be swirling the bowl and the morons in charge are feeling the looming drain of oblivion.
    May they all be flushed!
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    Post  AlfaT8 Thu Jul 23, 2015 3:23 am

    kvs wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:Right Sector & Porky's recent statements = HOLY PERUN, WHAT THE F*CK AM I RADING HERE!!! confused Shocked

    But after thinking about it explanation is simple:  clear sign of ukrop infighting and desperation if there ever was one. thumbsup

    Whatever it is that NAF has been doing so far, they should keep doing it. respekt

    The economy must be swirling the bowl and the morons in charge are feeling the looming drain of oblivion.
    May they all be flushed!
    Amen to that.
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    Post  BKP Thu Jul 23, 2015 3:35 am

    AlfaT8 wrote:
    kvs wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:Right Sector & Porky's recent statements = HOLY PERUN, WHAT THE F*CK AM I RADING HERE!!! confused Shocked

    But after thinking about it explanation is simple:  clear sign of ukrop infighting and desperation if there ever was one. thumbsup

    Whatever it is that NAF has been doing so far, they should keep doing it. respekt

    The economy must be swirling the bowl and the morons in charge are feeling the looming drain of oblivion.
    May they all be flushed!
    Amen to that.

    i'm keeping my fingers crossed! russia
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    Post  Erk Thu Jul 23, 2015 3:35 am

    PapaDragon wrote:

    Whatever it is that NAF has been doing so far, they should keep doing it. respekt

    The NAF seems to be pulling back in a lot of places, I don't understand why. Perhaps they are trying to make the UAF obviously cross the border lines as defined in Minsk 2 so they have a reason for a strong offensive push against the UAF. The towns the NAF gives up will need to be taken back at some point or else Novorossiya will be seen as contracting which is not positive for it's citizens.
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    Post  PapaDragon Thu Jul 23, 2015 3:39 am

    Erk wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:

    Whatever it is that NAF has been doing so far, they should keep doing it. respekt

    The NAF seems to be pulling back in a lot of places, I don't understand why. Perhaps they are trying to make the UAF obviously cross the border lines as defined in Minsk 2 so they have a reason for a strong offensive push against the UAF. The towns the NAF gives up will need to be taken back at some point or else Novorossiya will be seen as contracting which is not positive for it's citizens.

    3 km is nothing. NAF aren't retreating, they are luring UAF out in the open.
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    Post  Erk Thu Jul 23, 2015 3:52 am

    PapaDragon wrote:

    3 km is nothing. NAF aren't retreating, they are luring UAF out in the open.

    3km is not really a lure for anything except footsoldiers. The artillery shelling will continue, just re-target 3km.




    Last edited by Erk on Thu Jul 23, 2015 5:29 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  Flagship Victory Thu Jul 23, 2015 4:15 am

    Ukraine's poverty rate to hit 33 percent this year.

    http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/ukraines-poverty-rate-may-reach-33-percent-in-2015-394056.html
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    Post  Dforce Thu Jul 23, 2015 4:50 am

    Flagship Victory wrote:Ukraine's poverty rate to hit 33 percent this year.


    Disgraceful, what is Porky doing?

    In Russia they know how to keep such things in check:

    "But one poverty expert, who requested anonymity out of a fear of being seen to paint too grim a picture, said it could go as high as 18 percent, meaning about 9.7 million people will cross into poverty by the end of the year."
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    Post  Cowboy's daughter Thu Jul 23, 2015 5:32 am

    I thought this was interesting.


    In Mykolaiv (60km north-west of Kherson), the deputy head of the district Social Policy Department for Mykolaiv region told the SMM on 16 July that the number of internally displaced persons (IDPs) in Mykolaiv has been gradually decreasing, e.g., from 8,858 on 15 June to 8,250 on 15 July – with, he said, IDPs returning home to Donbas and Crimea or moving to other regions of Ukraine. Though the deputy head said the profile of the IDPs remains relatively consistent, with women, many with small children, making up the majority (70%) and pensioners representing the biggest social category (49%). wrote:

    Latest from OSCE Special Monitoring Mission (SMM) to Ukraine based on information received as of 19:30 (Kyiv time), 19 July 2015
    KYIV 20 July 2015


    http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/173666
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    Post  Odin of Ossetia Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:15 am

    Ispan wrote:
    Odin of Ossetia wrote:

    The "Polish" mercenaries are not real Poles, they are ethnic Ukrainians from Poland.

    The "flying the Polish flag" is meant to set the real ethnic Poles and Russians against each other.

    Sorry, but in this case you help in spreading disinformation and Ukrainian coup regime propaganda.

    I take offense and I find that very insulting, as I only report something when I am quite sure about it and the sources are credible, but I will let that pass in the interest of the thread.

    I am only reporting what an eyewitness saw. Of course he will make mistakes, and some of what he reports are rumors, but on the whole he seems like a intelligent, observant person, as befits a medicine doctor.  Also he is a non combatant and not interested that much in military things, so his observations are valuable because they are about things he found particularly striking and would stick in the memory of a layman. I would love to hear the stories from foreign fighters with the militia as they would have a lot of valuable insight on the military side of things.

    Judging by the posters at MPnet, Russophobia is rampant in Poland. I do have a Polish friend who is fairly moderate and he admits as much. Not everybody in Poland is like that, I would dare say only a minority, but the unpleasant truth is that there is no love lost between the two countries. Some Poles do hate Russia.

    As far as I know there are  no "ethnic Ukrainians" living in Poland, ever since the borders were moved after World War II, unless you mean migrant workers.

    Of all the stories about mercenaries in the junta armies, the ones about Polish mercs are the most credible. After all, Maidan rioters got training in Poland. There is a well known photo of Turchynov hanging around with a former Polish officer and  known mercenary, and there are the trophies of Western small arms captured at the Donetsk airport. There have been lots of stories of foreign mercenaries circulated by the militia. This is the first confirmation from a credible and impartial Western eyewitness. Why would he make stuff up?  He was at the front and is not reporting rumors.


    If you think there are no ethnic Ukrainians in Poland, then you know nothing about that country.


    And that "flaming_python" poster, what precisely do you know about Poles and Poland? You really think that most ethnic Poles are really preoccupied with some unrelenting hatred of ethnic Russians? Most ethnic Poles view the fall of Communism in 1989 as a national disaster, and the Russians as better than the West.

    But of course, like you ate all your wits and think that you know more about the ethnic Poles than a Pole?

    Besides ethnic Poles have much better things to do now than being preoccupied with hating ethnic Russians, like cleaning toilets, and washing dishes, and simply trying to survive.

    Most ethnic Poles are currently seeing the West and the Ukrainians nationalists as far bigger enemies than the Russians.
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    Post  higurashihougi Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:45 am

    Probably the thing that all sides can agree is that, most Poles see facist shit like Pravyy Sektor as the worst enemy, disregard of their opinion about Russia. Proof ? Ah, about 60,000-120,000 Poles was killed by the Bandera thugs during WW2.

    So, yeah, the Poles are happy to give a punch to the Pravyy Sektor shits in Lviv.

    But what worries me is the attitude of Polish politicians and goverment. History shows me that I should not expect anything wise from these politicians.
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    Post  Guest Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:47 am

    Odin of Ossetia wrote:
    Ispan wrote:
    Odin of Ossetia wrote:

    The "Polish" mercenaries are not real Poles, they are ethnic Ukrainians from Poland.

    The "flying the Polish flag" is meant to set the real ethnic Poles and Russians against each other.

    Sorry, but in this case you help in spreading disinformation and Ukrainian coup regime propaganda.

    I take offense and I find that very insulting, as I only report something when I am quite sure about it and the sources are credible, but I will let that pass in the interest of the thread.

    I am only reporting what an eyewitness saw. Of course he will make mistakes, and some of what he reports are rumors, but on the whole he seems like a intelligent, observant person, as befits a medicine doctor.  Also he is a non combatant and not interested that much in military things, so his observations are valuable because they are about things he found particularly striking and would stick in the memory of a layman. I would love to hear the stories from foreign fighters with the militia as they would have a lot of valuable insight on the military side of things.

    Judging by the posters at MPnet, Russophobia is rampant in Poland. I do have a Polish friend who is fairly moderate and he admits as much. Not everybody in Poland is like that, I would dare say only a minority, but the unpleasant truth is that there is no love lost between the two countries. Some Poles do hate Russia.

    As far as I know there are  no "ethnic Ukrainians" living in Poland, ever since the borders were moved after World War II, unless you mean migrant workers.

    Of all the stories about mercenaries in the junta armies, the ones about Polish mercs are the most credible. After all, Maidan rioters got training in Poland. There is a well known photo of Turchynov hanging around with a former Polish officer and  known mercenary, and there are the trophies of Western small arms captured at the Donetsk airport. There have been lots of stories of foreign mercenaries circulated by the militia. This is the first confirmation from a credible and impartial Western eyewitness. Why would he make stuff up?  He was at the front and is not reporting rumors.


    If you think there are no ethnic Ukrainians in Poland, then you know nothing about that country.


    And that "flaming_python" poster, what precisely do you know about Poles and Poland? You really think that most ethnic Poles are really preoccupied with some unrelenting hatred of ethnic Russians? Most ethnic Poles view the fall of Communism in 1989 as a national disaster, and the Russians as better than the West.

    But of course, like you ate all your wits and think that you know more about the ethnic Poles than a Pole?

    Besides ethnic Poles have much better things to do now than being preoccupied with hating ethnic Russians, like cleaning toilets, and washing dishes, and simply trying to survive.

    Most ethnic Poles are currently seeing the West and the Ukrainians nationalists as far bigger enemies than the Russians.
    Out of curiosity, are you Polish?
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    Post  auslander Thu Jul 23, 2015 8:12 am

    Gentlemen, let's try to keep the discourse civil.

    We in the south are now in day four of a DoS attack. Net service is slowly getting back to normal but the attack continues. I have no info as to who or where the attack is coming from. Today, after being down since just after 20:00 yesterday, service came up at 06:50 and went down at 07:40 for an hour. Makes writing or posting a bit more involved in that one writes email replies and posts off line and then it's copy and paste.

    Read the OSCE report. No surprises there.
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    Post  sepheronx Thu Jul 23, 2015 8:35 am

    Dforce wrote:
    Flagship Victory wrote:Ukraine's poverty rate to hit 33 percent this year.


    Disgraceful, what is Porky doing?

    In Russia they know how to keep such things in check:

    "But one poverty expert, who requested anonymity out of a fear of being seen to paint too grim a picture, said it could go as high as 18 percent, meaning about 9.7 million people will cross into poverty by the end of the year."

    Because an "anonymous" account of something of someone stating "it could", without a link, sounds very reliable Rolling Eyes

    Yeah, any dickhead can be an expert, especially if he isn't named. How convenient. Sounds a lot like the "unnamed experts" from Indian news. Never ends up true but always mentioned for media flare.
    Khepesh
    Khepesh

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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #18 - Page 13 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #18

    Post  Khepesh Thu Jul 23, 2015 8:59 am

    In Donetsk hundreds of people protest outside the hotel used by OSCE. They call on them to do their job impartially and report truthfully, and some are holding fragments of shells that had landed in their homes or on their property.
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #18 - Page 13 Bc6787d7b1f1

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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #18 - Page 13 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #18

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