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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

    ExBeobachter1987
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    Post  ExBeobachter1987 Wed Jul 15, 2015 11:15 am

    whir wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Notice the wording when he talks about the division of the Ukraine... he seems to think the west of ukraine is some utopia being held back by its backward eastern half... cut away the fat and let it grow to its full potential... I guess all the nazis will just disappear into the woodwork and all their problems will be solved.
    The anchor theory is very popular among certain circles, just yesterday or two days ago I can't remember exactly, Forbes published an article about Lithuania's successful postindustrial economy based high-tech innovations like mobile apps thanks to the fact that the country is not longer part of Soviet Russia.

    How do they explain Belarus?
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    Post  auslander Wed Jul 15, 2015 11:25 am

    Khepesh wrote:Interesting ukrops originated infographic on casualties has appeared on the "Strelkov" VK page https://vk.com/strelkov_info?w=wall-57424472_66728

    Perhaps somebody good at maths can check the numbers as I am terrible. However, it is about which region has suffered the most losses in the war in Eastern Ukraine and gives the distibution of losses by place of birth per 1 million people living in a region. That's what the top two lines of text say. Then on the columns it is in order of, place [ranked high to low], region and then death toll of forces per million people. On the article it extrapolates that this shows that for all of Ukraine, and it includes Donetsk, Lugansk and Crimea, that for every 1 million Ukranians 905,5 have died, and on the basis of official figures showing population of 42,726 million, then a total of 38,688 ukrops soldiers have died. How it calculates deaths in those regions no longer under Kiev I do not know except that at face value it means, for instance, that in Donetsk 7,3 people per milion of population died fighting for ukrops, which it not unrealistic in a civil war perhaps. Interestingly this infographic can no longer be found on it's originating site http://www.slovoidilo.ua/.....

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #17 - Page 24 Fbd105d5400d

    The figure for Krimu is pretty close. To the best of my knowledge we buried 17 of our boys since it started last April, that would figure out to roughly 4.5 per million. We have to pay to get our boys back if the orcs have them. Last year after Strelkov retreated one of our boys fell in the rear guard. The orcs wanted double the usual price for him. That was apparently refused so the orcs didn't argue, they just send the lower half of the body back.


    Last edited by auslander on Wed Jul 15, 2015 11:37 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  whir Wed Jul 15, 2015 11:28 am

    Khepesh wrote:How it calculates deaths in those regions no longer under Kiev I do not know except that at face value it means, for instance, that in Donetsk 7,3 people per milion of population died fighting for ukrops, which it not unrealistic in a civil war perhaps.
    I don't know but there's the possibility that for administrative reasons like inheritances and pensions both sides have been updating the death certificate database to some extent since concealing natural deaths only creates more trouble for everyone down the road so maybe an extrapolation of those registered as violent deaths or similar wording could be possible based on percentages from others regions in relation to census.
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    Post  JohninMK Wed Jul 15, 2015 11:35 am

    whir wrote:
    Khepesh wrote:How it calculates deaths in those regions no longer under Kiev I do not know except that at face value it means, for instance, that in Donetsk 7,3 people per milion of population died fighting for ukrops, which it not unrealistic in a civil war perhaps.
    I don't know but there's the possibility that for administrative reasons like inheritances and pensions both sides have been updating the death certificate database to some extent since concealing natural deaths only creates more trouble for everyone down the road so maybe an extrapolation of those registered as violent deaths or similar wording could be possible based on percentages from others regions in relation to census.
    How do they apportion those in the thousands of 'unknown' soldier graves?
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    Post  auslander Wed Jul 15, 2015 11:39 am

    JohninMK wrote:
    whir wrote:
    Khepesh wrote:How it calculates deaths in those regions no longer under Kiev I do not know except that at face value it means, for instance, that in Donetsk 7,3 people per milion of population died fighting for ukrops, which it not unrealistic in a civil war perhaps.
    I don't know but there's the possibility that for administrative reasons like inheritances and pensions both sides have been updating the death certificate database to some extent since concealing natural deaths only creates more trouble for everyone down the road so maybe an extrapolation of those registered as violent deaths or similar wording could be possible based on percentages from others regions in relation to census.
    How do they apportion those in the thousands of 'unknown' soldier graves?

    That may tie in with the German Intel figure of just over 50,000 orc soldiers dead in total, ergo the extra 11 thousand could well be the 'unknowns'.
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    Post  whir Wed Jul 15, 2015 12:31 pm

    JohninMK wrote:How do they apportion those in the thousands of 'unknown' soldier graves?
    They could apply the same math they normally would when adding unresolved disappearances to yearly natural death count but adjusted for unknown casualties figure, the end number may not be accurate but at least could be realistic enough to be used to assed the total. At this moment I can't think of any other valid statistical method without involving witchcraft dunno.
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    Post  JohninMK Wed Jul 15, 2015 12:35 pm

    whir wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:How do they apportion those in the thousands of 'unknown' soldier graves?
    They could apply the same math they normally would when adding unresolved disappearances to yearly natural death count but adjusted for unknown casualties figure, the end number may not be accurate but at least could be realistic enough to be used to assed the total. At this moment I can't think of any other valid statistical method without involving witchcraft dunno.
    The only other valid method is the no paperwork equal no death.
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    Post  JohninMK Wed Jul 15, 2015 12:39 pm

    This is a bit of a surprise, delaying for a year the report on MH-17 and the outcry in the MSM. Does it give us a hint perhaps that someone really does not want it published when the result could have an impact on current events? Could it point at the guilty party? Obviously not Holland!

    KIEV (Sputnik) – The Ukrainian parliament has ratified an agreement with the Netherlands to extend the investigations into the downing of a MH17 passenger jet over Ukraine to August 1, 2016.

    On July 17, 2014, flight MH17 was en route to Kuala Lumpur from Amsterdam when it crashed in southeastern Ukraine. All 298 people on board died in the crash. According to a September 2014 preliminary report by the Dutch Safety Board, MH17 broke up in the air after being hit by multiple high-energy objects from outside the aircraft.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150715/1024640647.html#ixzz3fxGNQiCp
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    Post  Walther von Oldenburg Wed Jul 15, 2015 12:40 pm

    Various medical professionals in Ukraine have been saying all along that the casualty figures given by Ukr authorities are BS - so the figure of 30,000 dead is very plausible.

    Well... Shocked 30,000 killed is more than Russian casualties in Afghanistan and both Chechen wars + NATO casualties in both Iraq and Afghanistan - and comparable to German dead during Operation Bagration (Frieser gives 26,000 dead). These are MASSIVE numbers guys - and a serious drain on Ukrainian manpower and desire to fight.
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    Post  PapaDragon Wed Jul 15, 2015 1:09 pm

    auslander wrote:Papa, that is one hell of an article to have come from HuffPost. It is an amazement and quite out of character but I doubt it indicates a sea change.

    I think the next few days will be interesting and a lot of questions will be answered in that time.

    Didn't believe it myself, ran into it by accident.

    I agree, there will be no change in official policy whatsoever, but it is interesting to see views like this popping out lately.

    Year ago articles like this on places like HuffPost were unthinkable. I guess some of those who will in the end pick up the tab for great Ukrainian adventure (taxpayers) are waking up to the fact that maybe it was not really worth it.

    Also, notice how author is firmly against expanding NATO further? Year ago it was "Ukraine must into NATO!!!"
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    Post  PapaDragon Wed Jul 15, 2015 1:26 pm


    Our neighbors, predictable but consistent.  thumbsup

    God bless those crazy bastards!!!  yes sir   respekt   lol1

    Budapest Stands By Ukraine’s Ethnic Hungarians

    http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150715/1024640810.html

    Hungarian agents in Ukraine are working hard to safeguard the interests of ethnic Hungarians living in the former Soviet republic, János Lázár, the chief of cabinet to Prime Minister Viktor Orban, told the MPs on Tuesday.

    In his report to parliament on the work done by the country’s intelligence services, János Lázár, who is responsible for civilian intelligence, cited the Ukrainian crisis as a primary example of radical changes to security in the region over the past year.
    Hungary shares borders with a country engaged in an armed conflict, The Budapest Beacon reported.

    According to Lázár, Hungarian spies have been active in Kiev, just like the spies of other regional neighbors, to ensure that political leaders are able to promote Hungary’s interests.

    He also stated that the government and the Information Office — the country’s non-military intelligence gathering agency  — are convinced that the future of Hungarians living in the Transcarpathia (southwestern Ukraine) will be a serious issue in the coming decade, and that the Information Office is working to protect Hungarian citizens in the Carpathian Basin.

    These operations are the first in twenty-five years in which the Hungarian government is openly undertaking activities in Ukraine in total opposition to the wishes of the Ukrainian government.

    Ukraine’s foreign ministry is doing what it can to stop Hungary’s spies and Hungarian diplomats from undertaking operations in Ukraine, Lázár said.

    Ethnic Hungarians living in Ukraine’s Transcarpathia account for about 12 percent of the region’s population.

    Speaking in parliament in May Hungarian Prime Minister Victor Orban said the “Hungarian community should enjoy dual citizenship and broad autonomy rights”
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    Post  Flagship Victory Wed Jul 15, 2015 1:29 pm

    8 Maidan soldiers KIA 16 Maidan soldiers WIA yesterday.
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    Post  whir Wed Jul 15, 2015 2:05 pm

    JohninMK wrote:The only other valid method is the no paperwork equal no death.
    I though you were strictly speaking about really unknown cases not "no name" or "surgical waste", my bad for not wording it correctly. Kiev is known to have a parallel accountancy based on informations coming out of medical staff.


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    Post  Ispan Wed Jul 15, 2015 2:21 pm

    auslander wrote:
    That may tie in with the German Intel figure of just over 50,000 orc soldiers dead in total, ergo the extra 11 thousand could well be the 'unknowns'.

    The Freemde Heeres Ost estimate was for total casualties of the war, both sides, military and civilian. Ukranian troops dead are about 20.000, Novorussian combatants about half that, in a reasonable extrapolation, and the other twenty thousand would be civilians.

    Of these 20,000 ukie war dead, a third are unknown soldiers for wich there is a corpse (7,500 and counting)

    There might be a few thousand more dead unaccounted, those that were cremated, dumped into lakes or mass graves, or simply lying on fields as "carrion groaning for burial". But let's not get carried away, the fighting is low intensity and involves relatively few troops. All the same, the junta army has suffered severely.

    I guess the graphic of losses is based on death certificates, it is a valid statistical method , tells us nothing we didn't knew already but is a confirmation of intel estimates and projections based on historical analysis.
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    Post  whir Wed Jul 15, 2015 2:34 pm

    The Times wrote:Kiev forced to fight its own fascist militias
    Geraldine Cremin and Adrian Bonenberger
    Published at 12:01AM, July 13 2015


    A pro-government Ukrainian militia accused of neo-Nazism has fought a gun battle with the country’s security forces that left at least three dead and several police vehicles destroyed by rocket-propelled grenades.

    The fighting marks the first clash between Kiev and one of the country’s “volunteer battalions” who have led the fight against pro-Russian separatists.

    The fierce confrontation in the city of Mukachevo, near Ukraine’s western border, involved members of Right Sector, a controversial nationalist group. Three policemen were among six injured, officials from the Ukrainian interior ministry said. Continue reading.

    I forgot the url confused.


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    Post  JohninMK Wed Jul 15, 2015 2:45 pm

    whir wrote:
    The Times wrote:Kiev forced to fight its own fascist militias
    Geraldine Cremin and Adrian Bonenberger
    Published at 12:01AM, July 13 2015


    A pro-government Ukrainian militia accused of neo-Nazism has fought a gun battle with the country’s security forces that left at least three dead and several police vehicles destroyed by rocket-propelled grenades.

    The fighting marks the first clash between Kiev and one of the country’s “volunteer battalions” who have led the fight against pro-Russian separatists.

    The fierce confrontation in the city of Mukachevo, near Ukraine’s western border, involved members of Right Sector, a controversial nationalist group. Three policemen were among six injured, officials from the Ukrainian interior ministry said. [url=Continue reading.]Continue reading.[/url]
    Gradually seeping into the Western MSM. Got to be good.
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    Post  whir Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:28 pm

    And the plot thickens...

    Olivier Fehr wrote:@ofehr_en 4h
    Gennadi Moskal, the Kiev appointed ATO governor of Lugansk oblast is reappointed to Zakarpatia oblast.
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    Post  Khepesh Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:45 pm

    Five government buildings evacuated in Kharkov due to suspect bombs. People learn that it is not necessary to take the risk of actively engaging in making and planting bombs, only to say words on the phone and then sit and watch the fun. That there has been some real partizan activity in Kharkov means that threats have to be acted on, as the caller may have given police info that only a real partizan could know about the previous attacks, and so have credibility. This time likely all a hoax, then a second time, maybe a few more, then when police get careless The Situation in the Ukraine. #17 - Page 24 Fa750e1c3c33
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    Post  whir Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:32 pm

    Elena Belozerskaya via Google Translate wrote:Олена Білозерська: Знаю, як треба!
    Elena Belozerskaya I know how to!
    Posted on 2015.07.14 at 23:44

    Some thoughts on the events in Transcarpathia

    Some thoughts about the events in Transcarpathia. Hatched them from the first moment of conflict, but did not dare write.

    The situation - more than resonance. Members and supporters of the SS, all wishing to "bring a revolution to the end" and just people tired of lawlessness mafia, eternal spikes (not only in Transcarpathia) bandits and security forces - clearly on the side of the SS men.

    But there is another part of society - of course, today is the most - which is shocked by the fact of shooting at civilian towns and availability for many kilometers from the front line people with weapons. Of course, the bandits lived in Mukachevo almost the beginning, and they have guns too was not yesterday. But while there was no armed conflict between bandits and aircraft, ordinary citizens have not seen it and lived a quiet.

    I closely watch the reaction of the public. After three days, the first shock ceased and people paid attention to the grave, no one has still not solved the problem that, consciously or not, boys raised FP vtyahnuvshys in armed conflict with local crime. People are not ready to say clearly and uncompromisingly that bandyukov and kryshuyuchyh cops should shoot them, but seriously the heads that they did something to do.

    These days in my head analogy: December 1 event on Bankova, when after beating students on the first day of true, many thousands, but still quite peaceful Maidan young nationalists tried to transfer power situation in the plane. Then distanced themselves from them and called them provocateurs not only policy (which always dissociate themselves from any radical action), but the vast majority maydanivtsiv. There is a problem, people understood this, but were willing to exclusively peaceful ways to solve it. A little more than six weeks, when everyone saw that peaceful standing in the cold and waving flashlights led only to the adoption of laws banning large caps, and politicians, the official leaders of the protests, did not offer any alternative - the same guys started doing the same thing December 1 did Bankova. But this time they all supported. And we won.

    In the minds of the vast majority of people - a taboo on the use of force by serious battle is easy, especially - on violence against representatives of the state and law. But the taboo of cannibalism even more - but it often disappears when alternative for man is starvation.

    In short, if all efforts to quit now - not to have to catch a few PSivtsiv and out to solve the problem, destroying adhesions between the government and mafia clans (You can start with Mukachevo, but may not be limited to) the discharge situation, the escalation of violence would not. If you do not - it is possible that a half or two months, "Mukachevo excess" cover other Ukrainian cities, and two died July 11 in a fight with gangsters and cops PSivtsiv whose names I is not even know will be on the lips of society, as Nihoyan and Zhyznevskyy.

    Next point - especially for those who think that the guys or their commanders led financial interest - the desire by the profit from the smuggling. Personally, I do not think so, but given the popularity of this idea, and focus on it.

    People you know is bad history. All the popular characters from Robin Hood and Karmelyuka from which side do not look, were robbers. Yes, Robin Hood robbed of "bad" and helped "good". And the men who shot the aircraft - a small defenseless orphans? And all spent, including financial resources FP - is not for victory in the war?

    However, why do we need a long, legendary times? Not all famous historical figures of the past century, some of whom we admire, others - our enemies started with things that can be classified as ordinary gangsterism. Stalin and other Bolsheviks before they came to power, robbing banks and doing "eksamy." OUN Bilas and Danylyshyn, praised Olzhych and Teligi, were hanged for having committed an armed raid on the mail to get money for the OUN. I recall that during such actions threaten not fall primarily armed bandits and their "chops", and ordinary civilians - Postman, cashiers, casual visitors.

    Do you know who the famous procured money for its activities exclusively legal way?
    Adolf Hitler.
    He was not robbed banks and mail reketyryv not rich. He took money from sponsors. In wealthy people who sympathized with his ideas.
    You are convinced that he later proved fundamentally better than the above-mentioned "political bandits"? I think those who thinks so - at least, not most Smile

    Think that huge money is needed to ensure that the system break down - even indifferent ways in which to break. And the system will allow his competitors to win the money - too indifferent ways in which to get.

    Resist the total hysterics. Think own mind. Continue reading.

    Meduza wrote:No one’s planning to disarm’
    12:41, 14 JULY 2015

    Heavily armed Ukrainian nationalists face off police in bloody gunfight

    On July 11, the town of Mukacheve in Ukraine’s southwest Zakarpattya Region was shaken by a heavy gunfight between between the police and members of Ukraine’s nationalist organization Pravy Sektor. The fight took place 1,600 kilometers (994 miles) from the front, in an otherwise peaceful region. Three people were killed and 11 were injured, including several locals. According to official statements, the shooting broke out over the “limits of spheres of influence.” The sphere in question seems to be cigarette smuggling. Across Ukraine, Pravy Sektor supporters have started demanding the resignation of Ukraine’s Interior Minister Arsen Avakov. On assignment for Meduza, Kiev-based journalist Ekaterina Sergatskova investigates what really happened in Mukacheve, and whether the events are a turning point for Ukrainian politics.

    Heavy duty military equipment is heading in the direction of the small town of Mukacheve in the Zakarpattya Region. Locals shout at the column: “Shame, lads! For shame!” The entrance to the town is blocked off, and checkpoints have been set up for checking all traffic moving in and out.

    “This is already painfully similar to how the the local inhabitants of Slovyansk greeted the army a year ago,” read several comments below a video of the events posted on Facebook. Mukacheve has already earned the dubious nickname of the “Zakarpattya Contraband Republic.” The conflict here is already considered to be a turning point in the history of Ukraine’s controversial volunteer battalions; it’s already changed perceptions of last year’s Euromaidan revolution.

    * * *

    On July 11, a gunfight broke out near a police traffic checkpoint. Three people were killed and eleven were injured. Two of the dead and four of the injured are members of Pravy Sektor – an organization considered illegal in Russia. The rest of the victims were police officers and locals. The shooting broke out after members of the far-right organization were unable to peacefully negotiate with Mikhail Lano, a Ukrainian parliament (Verkhovna Rada) member and a former member of Viktor Yanukovych’s Party of the Regions. The Right Sector had accused him of corruption and smuggling. According to the police, the resulting shootout featured not only assault rifles and machine guns, but also rocket-propelled grenade launchers which had been acquired at the frontlines of the conflict in the east of Ukraine (1600 kilometers from Mukacheve)

    Following the gunfight, a group of supporters of Pravy Sektor fled to the Carpathian Mountains, where they are believed to be hiding currently. The leaders of the organization held a demonstration on Saturday outside the Presidential Administration in Kiev. They demanded that PM Mikhail Lano be stripped of his parliamentary immunity and that “Ukrainian Choice” leader Viktor Medvedchuk (a man widely believed to have ties with Russian President Vladimir Putin) be arrested. They also demanded the head of the Zakarpattya police be dismissed, along with the Minister of Internal Affairs, Arsen Avakov. The Right Sector has accused Avakov of failing to carry out the lustration of Zakarpattya’s local police. Continue reading.

    Jobbik wrote:WAKE UP, EUROPE! CIVIL WAR HAS REACHED TRANSCARPATHIA!
    2015-07-12 19:34

    The Transcarpathian town of Munkács (Mukachevo) is living in civil war conditions as the gunmen of extremist Right Sector (Praviy Sektor) engaged in a gunfight with the bodyguards of an MP and the arriving police Saturday afternoon. Unconfirmed media reports talk about the use of heavy artillery, several people dead or injured. The roads to Ungvár (Uzhgorod) are blocked, there are cars in flames on the streets, the secret service and the army has already been deployed.

    Munkács is just a leap away from Beregszász (Beregovo), the centre of the Hungarian community in Transcarpathia. This is neither the East Ukraine war theatre nor a distant, theoretical threat any longer. Unfortunately, the earlier warnings issued by Jobbik, which has been accused of baseless panic-mongering, have been justified: the real threat and the real danger is posed by the extremist units of the Right Sector, which all honest Ukrainians and Hungarians must jointly oppose!

    Jobbik has doubts whether the Western-backed Ukrainian government can protect its citizens if the situation escalates, with special regard to the ethnic minorities living in its territory. Transcarpathia cannot become a front zone like Eastern Ukraine! So the United States and the European Union both have a great responsibility in this situation.

    Jobbik expects the Hungarian government to do its best in order to protect the Hungarian community in Transcarpathia and use all means possible to call the attention of the international public to the gravity of the situation as well as the threat involved!

    István Szávay vice president, Jobbik Continue reading.
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    Post  auslander Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:38 pm

    JohninMK wrote:This is a bit of a surprise, delaying for a year the report on MH-17 and the outcry in the MSM. Does it give us a hint perhaps that someone really does not want it published when the result could have an impact on current events? Could it point at the guilty party? Obviously not Holland!

    KIEV (Sputnik) – The Ukrainian parliament has ratified an agreement with the Netherlands to extend the investigations into the downing of a MH17 passenger jet over Ukraine to August 1, 2016.

    On July 17, 2014, flight MH17 was en route to Kuala Lumpur from Amsterdam when it crashed in southeastern Ukraine. All 298 people on board died in the crash. According to a September 2014 preliminary report by the Dutch Safety Board, MH17 broke up in the air after being hit by multiple high-energy objects from outside the aircraft.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150715/1024640647.html#ixzz3fxGNQiCp

    It is well known who shot it down and it wasn't our boys. Obviously the orcs don't want the report out nor does EU or Uncle Sam. Amazingly, I've seen nothing of this in west media.
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    Post  whir Wed Jul 15, 2015 7:34 pm

    Bold part is making Twitter going crazy (well, more than usual Laughing).

    OSCE wrote:Latest from OSCE Special Monitoring Mission (SMM) to Ukraine based on information received as of 19:30 (Kyiv time), 13 July 2015
    KYIV 14 July 2015
    ...
    At the Novoazovsk (“DPR”-controlled, 53km east of Mariupol) international border crossing point between Ukraine and the Russian Federation, the SMM observed a calm situation with a dozen trucks waiting to cross into the Russian Federation. The “DPR” “border guard” “commander” said an average of 150 trucks passed back and forth daily – bringing food, diesel fuel and construction material to Ukraine, and transporting Ukrainian food and steel/metal products to the Russian Federation. He added that four of the trucks, which the SMM saw had Russian Federation license plates, had delivered a shipment of humanitarian aid in the form of bottled water to “DPR”-controlled Donetsk region.
    ...
    Continue reading.
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    Post  JohninMK Wed Jul 15, 2015 7:37 pm

    auslander wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:This is a bit of a surprise, delaying for a year the report on MH-17 and the outcry in the MSM. Does it give us a hint perhaps that someone really does not want it published when the result could have an impact on current events? Could it point at the guilty party? Obviously not Holland!

    KIEV (Sputnik) – The Ukrainian parliament has ratified an agreement with the Netherlands to extend the investigations into the downing of a MH17 passenger jet over Ukraine to August 1, 2016.

    On July 17, 2014, flight MH17 was en route to Kuala Lumpur from Amsterdam when it crashed in southeastern Ukraine. All 298 people on board died in the crash. According to a September 2014 preliminary report by the Dutch Safety Board, MH17 broke up in the air after being hit by multiple high-energy objects from outside the aircraft.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150715/1024640647.html#ixzz3fxGNQiCp

    It is well known who shot it down and it wasn't our boys. Obviously the orcs don't want the report out nor does EU or Uncle Sam. Amazingly, I've seen nothing of this in west media.
    I don't understand what's going on as now we have, also from Sputnik

    The final investigative report on the deadly crash of the Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 in southeastern Ukraine will lay the blame for the tragedy on Donbass independence supporters, and, partly, the carrier itself, CNN reported Wednesday, citing two sources familiar with the investigation.

    MOSCOW (Sputnik) — The final report into the crash by the Dutch Safety Board is scheduled to be published in October 2015. A draft version of the document has been sent to the countries participating in the investigation. The states were given 60 days to comment on the draft.

    Kiev blamed the independence supporters in eastern Ukraine for shooting down the plane. However, local militia insisted that they did not possess weapons capable of bringing down an aircraft flying at 32,000 feet. Russia has repeatedly stressed the importance of a transparent international investigation into the tragedy.

    According to CNN's sources, Dutch investigators say that “evidence points” to Donbass militia as being responsible for shooting down flight MH17. One of the sources added, that the draft report includes the type of missile allegedly used to shoot down the plane and the trajectory of the missile.

    Both sources said that the report also puts “some” of the blame on Malaysia airlines, which, unlike many major carriers, chose to continue flights over the conflict zone.

    The Dutch Safety Board, the lead investigator into the crash, told CNN it would not comment on the information contained in a confidential report.


    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/world/20150715/1024669381.html#ixzz3fyzLpp2U
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    whir

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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #17 - Page 24 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

    Post  whir Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:01 pm

    JohninMK wrote:I don't understand what's going on as now we have, also from Sputnik
    Probably there's not going to be a full disclosure of the full report and only the final conclusions are going to be made public and since in theory the technical report can't put the blame on someone (most probably seeing precedents) unless it's being directly involved (like GermanWings's copilot) they are probably to state some vague conclusions like identifying the object that downed the plane as a Russian-made rocket or that the rocket fled from rebel-held territory towards the plane that although if technically true both statements don't explain who fired it or from where it was fired.
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #17 - Page 24 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

    Post  whir Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:14 pm

    RT via Google Translate wrote:Moscú: Los expertos rusos son apartados de la investigación de la catástrofe del Boeing MH-17
    Moscow: Russian experts are removed from the investigation of the catastrophe of Boeing MH-17
    Published: July 15, 2015 16:47 GMT | Last updated: July 15, 2015 17:18 GMT

    Russian experts have been removed from the investigation of the catastrophe of Boeing MH-17 Malaysia Airways took place in Ukraine on July 17, 2014, as announced by the permanent representative of Russia to the UN Vitaly Churkin.

    Russia has always been advocating a "close cooperation" in the investigation of the catastrophe of Boeing MH-17 Malaysia Airways, that the life of 298 people dead, announced Russia's permanent representative to the UN, Vitali Churkin , in an interview with the Russian channel Rossiya 24. "However, it has proved that our experts have been virtually sections" of the research, he said.

    Also, Churkin has said that it does not consider necessary the creation of an international tribunal to investigate the tragedy. "The authors themselves admit that the idea is a criminal offense, but also proposed an international tribunal" has expressed the official, adding that it is a legal inconsistency as to investigate criminal offenses there is no need to create these courts.

    In addition, expected Churkin France Germany and the US unofficially collaborate with Kiev to fulfill the agreements of Minsk. Continue reading.
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #17 - Page 24 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

    Post  Khepesh Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:35 pm

    Gorlovka tonight as bad as January. Picture paints a thousand words....
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #17 - Page 24 1d0d5da622a7

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