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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

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    Rodinazombie

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    Post  Rodinazombie Sun Jul 12, 2015 1:18 am

    I see that scumbag gerashenko is trying to blame mukachevo on the kremlin.

    Does this shit really fly with ordinary ukrainians anymore?

    Lets hope there are more incidents like this as the economy and social situations continue to implode.

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    Post  Cowboy's daughter Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:11 am

    Ivan Katchanovski
    1 hr · Edited ·
    Facebook

    Another example of open falsification of the historical conflict in Ukraine by government and the media in Ukraine. The Volyn media reports that memorial sign has been opened today in presence of regional and local officials near Gaiove village (former Przebraze) in the Volynia Region in honor of a mass execution of 2,000 thousand Ukrainians. My archival and field research and interviews with local residents in this and neighboring villages show that this is another falsification. Around 100 UPA fighters and local villagers, who were mobilized for this task by the SB OUN and the UPA, were killed there by Polish Self-Defence and Soviet partisans in a counter-attack in summer of 1943 after the UPA attempted to attack and massacre residents of this Polish colony. The Polish Self-Defence along with Polish-dominated local police later attacked Ukrainian villages and committed under German command several massacres of local Ukrainian residents in this region. This sign was initiated by regional organizations of Svoboda and the OUN and UPA veterans.

    http://www.volynnews.com/news/society/osviatyly-pamiatnyy-znak-na-mistsi-vbytykh-pid-chas-volynskoyi-trahediyi/
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    Post  Cowboy's daughter Sun Jul 12, 2015 4:47 am

    TOO MUCH: Military jet with heavily armed National guards departured to Mukacheve



    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=cf9_1436655567

    Ukraine: Right Sector Mukachevo attack brings supporters to central Kiev

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    Post  BKP Sun Jul 12, 2015 5:19 am

    flamming_python wrote:
    Personally, I don't want to have anything to do with that fail of a country.

    Just ensure the safety of the Donbassians; preferably give them an opportunity to reconquer the rest of their oblasts; and then the rest of the Ukraine can live how they wish.

    That could mean eventual NATO bases and missiles there.
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    Post  Vann7 Sun Jul 12, 2015 6:12 am

    JohninMK wrote:
    Sorry but what on earth makes you believe that Russia 'wants' the economic and social basket case that is now Ukraine?

    It is even highly unlikely that Russia 'wanted' Ukraine a couple of years ago when it was a lot better off, due to the financial costs of an ageing population, a mainly clapped out beyond its use by date industry and a mining industry digging very expensive (in terms of lives and the cost of deep mines) coal. Let alone the oligarchal structure in society.

    Russia might be asked to step in with a peacekeeping force but that is probably as far as it goes.


    I mean that RUssia wants to capture all Ukraine.. away of the americans...
    Annexation of Ukraine for now or near Future not happening any time soon.. Russia
    cannot handle the pensions and economic needs of 40 millions of Ukrainians.. But in the
    long future.. 10 to 15 years.. Russia will need to do it.. to not allow another EuroMaidan to ever
    happen again. in kiev...and keep under control of Ukraine..that IS a RUSSIAN land.. This will also allow Russia to be closer to Europe and more effectively REVERSE the De-Rusophication campaign of americans in Ukraine.. and more important than anything.. to finally solve the transnistria issue.. that is land locked..

    IF Russia do not take control in Ukraine when they have the opportunity.. Americans will turn the country into a NATO state.. But something like that cannot happen any time near in future..
    until Russia fix its economy problems. That will also allow Russia to finally end the rhetoric
    of "RUssian invasion" in Ukraine ,since after Poroshenko and ultra nationals kicked from Power.. the new Power in Kiev will be friendly to Russia and will join the military defense block that Russia and Belarus are part.  invite Russian troops for exercises.  As Belarus does.  How can Americans claims "Russia Invasion" and for European to continue its sanctions , if the new power in kiev welcomes Russia in Ukraine? and Eastern Ukraine Re-Integrate kiev but under a PRO Russian faction in Power.  Cool   and worse if a new power in Kiev friendly to Russia ,recognize Crimea as a Russian land?  (in hopes that the rest of Ukraine will be integrated into Russia too. ) Cool

    Again..what is NATO "problems with Russia " In Ukraine?
    That they are helping the separatist.. but if Poroshenko kicked by Pro Russian Factions and the
    Novorisiya says.. all right .. now we agree to join Ukraine.. Smile  The effectively the Minks-2 agreement is fully implemented.. Ukraine gets the control of Donetsk and Lugansk.. but under a pro Russian Administration. Cool  

    that will recognize Crimea as Russian Land.   Wink

    So no longer US or NATO will have any face to claim "Russian Aggression" if Ukraine united again and in good relations with Russia.. and they become close allies..  Cool

    For sure the Ultra Nationalist will not vanish all of them.. if they lose power in kiev.. but they will become much more aware of the Big Mistake they did in allowing Americans to take control
    of ukraine and that there is no future with the west.. so the calls for joining the Euro will significantly decrease.. people will know in Ukraine.. that Europe does not want them..so there will be no point in even try another EuroMaidan revolution. At First Ukraine will become Independent again as it was under Yakunovych.. but later movements will start for returning Ukraine as part of Russia again as an Autonomous Republic.. as it was under soviet times. Just this time under capitalism.


    Last edited by Vann7 on Sun Jul 12, 2015 6:27 am; edited 1 time in total
    auslander
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    Post  auslander Sun Jul 12, 2015 6:23 am

    JohninMK wrote:From today's OSCE report, unequally posted the same day as it reports on. This is a huge increase in activity. Quiet elsewhere they monitored they say.

    There was a high level of violence at and around the Donetsk airport. Between 08:00 and 17:45hrs, at the Joint Centre for Control and Co-ordination (JCCC) observation point at Donetsk central railway station (“Donetsk People’s Republic” (“DPR”)-controlled, 8km north-west of Donetsk city centre), the SMM heard 617 instances of weapons fire, including tank, anti-aircraft gun, heavy machine gun, automatic grenade launcher and small arms. This firing was heard 2 - 9km north, north-east and north-west of the SMM’s position.[1]

    There seems to be a distinct slow down of OSCE activities on our side of the lines. I noticed this in the couple weeks or so after that one reporter started to photo the OSCE operative's faces and started to ID them, then the locals picked up the trend and also began to document the OSCE operative's total lack of any tools or equipment to measure what hit where and from where and their total lack of cooperation or desire to talk to the witnesses. I suppose next the OSCE operatives will start wearing balaklavas.

    As has been mentioned before, the continuous attacks and bombardments with the resultant civilian and military wounded and dead is a calculated plan to goad NAF to start an offensive. No matter now much we want it, NAF will not take the bait.
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    Post  Erk Sun Jul 12, 2015 8:24 am

    Vann7 wrote:
    I mean that RUssia wants to capture all Ukraine.. away of the americans...
    Annexation of Ukraine for now or near Future not happening any time soon.. Russia
    cannot handle the pensions and economic needs of 40 millions of Ukrainians..  

    Russia can not handle 40million people that don't want to be part of Russia, you are delusional if you think it's about paying pensions and the economy.

    The pro Russian portion of the Ukrainian population is a minority not a majority.
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    Post  ExBeobachter1987 Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:51 am

    auslander wrote:There seems to be a distinct slow down of OSCE activities on our side of the lines. I noticed this in the couple weeks or so after that one reporter started to photo the OSCE operative's faces and started to ID them, then the locals picked up the trend and also began to document the OSCE operative's total lack of any tools or equipment to measure what hit where and from where and their total lack of cooperation or desire to talk to the witnesses. I suppose next the OSCE operatives will start wearing balaklavas.

    Congratulations. It seems that the Novorussians have finally found an effective countermeasure against the OSCE spies. Cool
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    Post  GarryB Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:57 am

    That could mean eventual NATO bases and missiles there.

    So base Iskander within 500km of them... and use their presence to unilaterally withdraw from the INF treaty and start making lots of IRBMs with ranges of 1,000-3,000km... such missiles would be relatively small and cheap to produce in huge numbers... and then suggest further money could be made selling such IRBMs to North Korea and Iran...
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    Post  Khepesh Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:06 am

    Exactly what the situation is at Mukachevo today is not clear, but one thing is that even if it did start as a local dispute over cigarette smuggling it has now become a serious political issue for Kiev. This Ukranian source http://zak-kor.net/nadzvichayn-podyi/8693-vnimanie-nizhnie-vorota-na-granice-zakarpatya-i-lvovschiny-perekryty-foto.html is this morning saying that pravy sektor scum from Lvov oblast are converging on Mukachevo, tho they say they are unarmed, and that Yarosh will be in Mukachevo today to negotiate. There is a huge amount of comment about this and many views expressed and I think it is impossible to come to an accurate analysis yet. But what should be noted is that while Kiev could attempt a "night of the long knives" on pravy sektor, many cities and villages in Transcarpathia and Galicia have these armed pravy sektor groups, and even if they had less than 50% support, or far less than that, any armed and determined group will dominate unarmed and otherwise leaderless civilians and cause problems for Kiev that I am not certain they could solve without stopping the ATO. I don't see pravy sektor being liquidated or any civil war, yet, but when it becomes obvious even to the most stupid person that Kiev is going to loose and that Ukraine in a few years, or months, will not have the borders it has today, civil wars will break out by groups trying to carve out a piece of the pie.
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    Post  Khepesh Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:27 am

    Cowboy's daughter wrote:I read this today about Viet Nam:

    “The enemy will pass slowly from the offensive to the defensive. The blitzkrieg will transform itself into a war of long duration. Thus, the enemy will be caught in a dilemma: He has to drag out the war in order to win it and does not possess, on the other hand, the psychological and political means to fight a long-drawn-out war."

    and it made me think about Ukraine/Kiev government...
    Already there are some commentators who draw an analogy with Ukraine today with what happened in Vietnam and specifically the 1975 Spring offensive by the North that defeated the South very quickly. It's not the best analogy in military terms, but shows how an American backed and seemingly large and strong army was to an extent an empty shell. For the last year I have said that what we have around Donbass, the ATO, is an inverse empty shell and that when it is cracked the end will come quickly for Kiev.
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    Post  Rodinazombie Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:35 am



    Shelling of kievsky district of donetsk this morning.

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    Post  whir Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:43 am

    sepheronx wrote:I don't know how it would be inside Russia's borders when clearly there are borders between the two countries.
    Think about the several millions Ukrainians living in Russia and the prospect of more to come as the situation spirals out of control.

    sepheronx wrote:I would at that point suggest Russia simply builds a wall, and says no one can go through the Ukrainian border but through only Novorussian sector.
    The detour through Gomel would not be such a big deal, specially for those living in Lvov.

    PapaDragon wrote:Russia not only wants failed state of Ukraine but also needs it because it is one of the phases towards Russia's favorable outcome.
    Then why not speeding up the process if that's the goal? You know, doing the same as Kiev has being trying to do but not failing miserably.

    Erk wrote:The pro Russian portion of the Ukrainian population is a minority not a majority.
    If you mean the ones that want to be ruled directly by Moscow then yes, you're completely right but that's it.
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    Post  Rodinazombie Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:43 am

    Google translated so bear with me, points 3 and 5 are the juiciest ones. I do wonder how yarosh will play this one out, as he seems to have been in the governments pocket recently. Will he be able to reign them in?

    http://rusnext.ru/news/1436685724

    "Right Sector" in a few hours will begin to "the elimination of all those involved in the attack on members of the organization"

    07/12/2015 - 10:45

    This page Facebook spokesman said the court decision prohibited the Russian extremist community.

    Literally, the report states the following:

    "Criminal-oligarchic regime led by Poroshenko completely repeated the way the regime of Yanukovych, shedding the blood of Ukrainian patriots who prevented his criminal dealings in Transcarpathia. In connection with this command:
    1. All WP and DRG 1st Division of the SS intelligence AQL leave permanent deployment base and go into battle mode output.
    2. To consider and staff units MIA, SSU et al., That now are fighting with units of the right sector, or block them in any way take part in it - state criminals, who are subject to disarmament, and in case of resistance - destruction.
    3. In case of no cessation of hostilities in 0000. 13/07/2015 command to start the elimination of all those involved in the attack on a member of the right sector or traditions of the criminal orders, throughout Ukraine and in spite of their positions.
    4. In the case of attempts to arrest or disarmament to open fire.
    5. Be prepared to deploy a full-fledged armed insurgency on the territory of Ukraine against the occupation internally criminal oligarchic regime.
    6. 1 from the unit commander. Intelligence AQL PS bring this order to the attention of all personnel departments.
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    Post  Erk Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:24 am

    Rodinazombie wrote:Google translated so bear with me, points 3 and 5 are the juiciest ones. I do wonder how yarosh will play this one out, as he seems to have been in the governments pocket recently. Will he be able to reign them in?

    http://rusnext.ru/news/1436685724

    "Right Sector" in a few hours will begin to "the elimination of all those involved in the attack on members of the organization"

    07/12/2015 - 10:45

    This page Facebook spokesman said the court decision prohibited the Russian extremist community.

    Literally, the report states the following:

    "Criminal-oligarchic regime led by Poroshenko completely repeated the way the regime of Yanukovych, shedding the blood of Ukrainian patriots who prevented his criminal dealings in Transcarpathia. In connection with this command:
    1. All WP and DRG 1st Division of the SS intelligence AQL leave permanent deployment base and go into battle mode output.
    2. To consider and staff units MIA, SSU et al., That now are fighting with units of the right sector, or block them in any way take part in it - state criminals, who are subject to disarmament, and in case of resistance - destruction.
    3. In case of no cessation of hostilities in 0000. 13/07/2015 command to start the elimination of all those involved in the attack on a member of the right sector or traditions of the criminal orders, throughout Ukraine and in spite of their positions.
    4. In the case of attempts to arrest or disarmament to open fire.
    5. Be prepared to deploy a full-fledged armed insurgency on the territory of Ukraine against the occupation internally criminal oligarchic regime.
    6. 1 from the unit commander. Intelligence AQL PS bring this order to the attention of all personnel departments.

    I don't understand, who is writing this?

    Why do they talk about "Be prepared to deploy a full-fledged armed insurgency on the territory of Ukraine"? is there some kind of invasion about to happen?

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    Post  whir Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:37 am

    Erk wrote:I don't understand, who is writing this?
    Why do they talk about "Be prepared to deploy a full-fledged armed insurgency on the territory of Ukraine"? is there some kind of invasion about to happen?
    They consider the government as legitimate for not following their patriotic agenda so in short: if authorities are not willing to compromise they're going to face violence from local RS branches all over the country.
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    Post  whir Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:44 am

    Типичный Киев wrote:Our police have cares. Six police for 6 minutes per person to be detained.

    Алексей Карангин via YouTube comments wrote:The courage and consummate professionalism 4 !!!!! Kiev police seizure of spoons from the homeless deserves respect. Guys, how much you would have to, if he had a knife?
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    Post  ExBeobachter1987 Sun Jul 12, 2015 12:08 pm

    whir wrote:Think about the several millions Ukrainians living in Russia and the prospect of more to come as the situation spirals out of control.

    They can be kicked out if they cause trouble.

    whir wrote:If you mean the ones that want to be ruled directly by Moscow then yes, you're completely right but that's it.

    And the ones who don't are unlikely to get the amount of support they want.
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    Post  Cowboy's daughter Sun Jul 12, 2015 12:19 pm

    This is what this says, but is it?
    Is this Kiev? Was it filmed on July 10, 2015? and is this Ukraine Army troops being sent to defend Kiev against Right Sector???

    Is this an old video? It looks familiar.


    Ukraine Army Sends in Troops to Defend Kiev Against Right Sector Insurgents 10 July 2015

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    Post  Khepesh Sun Jul 12, 2015 12:26 pm

    Various media outlets report that "Azov" and "Donbass" have issued threats about the situation at Mukachevo. They did similar last year over other nonsense but did nothing. Latest reports say that the operation to liquidate the situation is postponed, presumably while Yarosh negotiates. Best and most concise report of the situation, dealing with known facts and the chronology so far, I have found to be this http://novorossiya.name/boynya-v-mukachevo-khronologiya-sobytiy/ which does not engage in wild speculation and believes that the situation will calm down and not progress, at least in the short term.
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    Post  whir Sun Jul 12, 2015 12:27 pm

    Cowboy's daughter wrote:This is what this says, but is it?
    Parade material, what was real was the mobilisation las night of several buses with troops to protect administration complex in central Kiev.
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    Post  flamming_python Sun Jul 12, 2015 12:27 pm

    Seems the new American-style police has already started work in Kiev Very Happy

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    Post  JohninMK Sun Jul 12, 2015 12:28 pm

    Bit of a problem brewing.

    The leader of Ukraine's ultranationalist Right Sector movement has called on his fighters to continue protests and political actions across Ukraine until those responsible in the deadly shootout in the Ukrainian town of Mukachevo are arrested and the country’s Interior Minister Arsen Avakov steps down. “Our brothers in arms have been acting in self-defense,” the leader of Ukraine's Right Sector ultranationalist movement Dmytro Yarosh wrote on his page in Facebook. “We are calling to continue enduring political actions until those who are responsible, in the eyes of the Right Sector, in the deadly shootout [in Mukachevo] (and those are Rada deputy, Mikhail Lanyo and Kiev's special representative for humanitarian issues Viktor Medvedchuk) are arrested and the whole leadership of the law enforcement establishment of the Zakarpatska region and the country’s Interior Minister Arsen Avakov resign,” he added.

    Saturday's deadly shootout between the Right Sector ultra-nationalist militia and Ukrainian police incited protests in several Ukrainian cities.

    The Right Sector activists in Kiev have launched a protest rally in front of the presidential administration building demanding to dismiss Interior Minister of Ukraine Arsen Avakov. Similar rallies of several dozen people are taking place in the cities of Lviv, Dnepropetrovsk, Kharkiv and Zhytomyr.

    Ukraine's Prosecutor General has launched an investigation into the shootout, preliminary qualifying it as a terrorist attack.

    Meanwhile, Ukrainian Right Sector militants, blocked in on the outskirts of Mukachevo after deadly clashes with police, are refusing to lay down their arms without their leader’s orders. Civilians in the area have been evacuated, as negotiations so far have failed. According to reports, Dmytro Yarosh is on his way to Mukachevo.

    Authorities said they will do everything necessary to disarm and detain the “organized criminal group”, referring to the Right Sector, that killed one, and injured four civilians. Six police officers were also injured in the standoff on Saturday afternoon.

    “These criminals have killed one and injured four civilians. Six police officers have been wounded, one is in critical condition,” says the statement on the website of the Security Service of Ukraine. The country’s Security Service also says that three police cars have been destroyed from grenade launchers and machine guns. Late Saturday, Right Sector issued a statement saying that two of their fighters had been killed and four other wounded.


    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150712/1024515844.html#ixzz3ffhamLVK
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    Post  Cowboy's daughter Sun Jul 12, 2015 12:29 pm

    Rodinazombie wrote:Google translated so bear with me, points 3 and 5 are the juiciest ones. I do wonder how yarosh will play this one out, as he seems to have been in the governments pocket recently. Will he be able to reign them in?

    http://rusnext.ru/news/1436685724

    "Right Sector" in a few hours will begin to "the elimination of all those involved in the attack on members of the organization"

    07/12/2015 - 10:45

    This page Facebook spokesman said the court decision prohibited the Russian extremist community.

    Literally, the report states the following:

    "Criminal-oligarchic regime led by Poroshenko completely repeated the way the regime of Yanukovych, shedding the blood of Ukrainian patriots who prevented his criminal dealings in Transcarpathia. In connection with this command:
    1. All WP and DRG 1st Division of the SS intelligence AQL leave permanent deployment base and go into battle mode output.
    2. To consider and staff units MIA, SSU et al., That now are fighting with units of the right sector, or block them in any way take part in it - state criminals, who are subject to disarmament, and in case of resistance - destruction.
    3. In case of no cessation of hostilities in 0000. 13/07/2015 command to start the elimination of all those involved in the attack on a member of the right sector or traditions of the criminal orders, throughout Ukraine and in spite of their positions.
    4. In the case of attempts to arrest or disarmament to open fire.
    5. Be prepared to deploy a full-fledged armed insurgency on the territory of Ukraine against the occupation internally criminal oligarchic regime.
    6. 1 from the unit commander. Intelligence AQL PS bring this order to the attention of all personnel departments.

    Kiev government is in trouble, I think..
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    Post  Karl Haushofer Sun Jul 12, 2015 12:30 pm

    Khepesh wrote:Various media outlets report that "Azov" and "Donbass" have issued threats about the situation at Mukachevo. They did similar last year over other nonsense but did nothing. Latest reports say that the operation to liquidate the situation is postponed, presumably while Yarosh negotiates. Best and most concise report of the situation, dealing with known facts and the chronology so far, I have found to be this http://novorossiya.name/boynya-v-mukachevo-khronologiya-sobytiy/ which does not engage in wild speculation and believes that the situation will calm down and not progress, at least in the short term.
    They probably realize that it would be dumb for them to fight against each other. I predict that there will be negotiations and no fighting.

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