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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

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    Karl Haushofer


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    Post  Karl Haushofer Thu 02 Jul 2015, 18:51

    Khepesh wrote:About Shirokino. Two versions:
    1: What has happened is that the mortars have been removed and the guys remain and Shirokino is still in hands of VSN and will not be given up. The mortars are removed so as not to give ukrops any excuse to continue their bombardments of Shirokino and they will need to provide a good reason if they continue. The mortars are removed to a distance were they can still give support if ukrops attack
    https://vk.com/pravdadnr_tk?w=wall-74318800_16515

    2: According to Basurin VSN have left Shirokino. http://rusvesna.su/news/1435830434

    Believe who you will, or nobody.......

    How do you explain this idiocy? I have lost all the sympathy for the NAF by now. I was rooting for them really hard during Ilovaysk and Debaltsevo but now they may as well lose this one.
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    Post  Karl Haushofer Thu 02 Jul 2015, 18:53

    sepheronx wrote:There would be no tactical advantage leaving the city. So why would they pull out if true?
    Because they are not allowed to shoot back because both the West and Russia demand that the NAF must adhere the Minsk agreement. And neither Russia nor the West demand that the UAF must adhere the Minsk agreement.

    If the NAF stay in Shirokino they will be slaughtered.
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    Post  whir Thu 02 Jul 2015, 19:23

    Юго-ВОСТОК информационно-аналитическое агентство wrote:Ukrainian army strengthens its boundaries near the village of Gold

    The consequences of punitive attacks Ukrainian city Pervomaisk
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    Post  JohninMK Thu 02 Jul 2015, 19:26

    If Pilipenko had not mentioned it this might have slipped through. Didn't anyone tell him the script? Will he still have his job on Monday?

    KIEV, July 2. /TASS/. Ukraine’s accession to the European Union and NATO cannot be put on a nationwide referendum in line with the new draft law on all-Ukrainian referendum submitted to the Verkhovna Rada parliament, the country’s representative at the Venetian Commission said on Thursday. In comparison with the law adopted in 2012, "the part about a plebiscite has been mostly amended as the issues that might be put on voting at nationwide referendums have been considerably narrowed," Volodymyr Pilipenko said. "The new edition of the draft law envisages amendments to the Constitution, changes of the country’s territory and cancelation of certain laws," Pilipenko posted on his Facebook account adding that "ratification of treaties on joining NATO or the EU is not among them."

    On June 23, seventeen lawmakers of the four parliamentary parties — the Petro Poroshenko Bloc, People’s Front, Self-Reliance and Fatherland (Batkivshchyna) — that make up a parliamentary coalition — submitted the draft law on all-Ukrainian referendum at the Verkhovna Rada.

    In May 2014 Poroshenko, who was then a presidential candidate, spoke against a referendum on NATO accession at that period of time. "This referendum will not ensure the unity at this stage and so it is unreasonable to hold it," Poroshenko said during his campaign trail in the Ukrainian city of Krivoy Rog.
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    Post  ExBeobachter1987 Thu 02 Jul 2015, 20:08

    Khepesh wrote:Also, if Shirokino is given up, then in order to show we are the good guys and want to save lives, why not give up Gorlovka, Donetsk, Lugansk, everything. If Shirokino is given up to save lives, then that argument is also valid for saying that Leningrad, Stalingrad and Voronezh should have been given up.

    Isn't Shirokino just an evacuated village?
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    Post  sepheronx Thu 02 Jul 2015, 20:11

    I read Khepesh link and apparently they (naf) agreed to make it a demilliterized zone with OSCE. So chances are, Pukes will take it over and naf lost a village due to OSCE. Maybe they know this and are hoping to prove OSCE as agents helping Ukraine and then continue on conflict?
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    Post  JohninMK Thu 02 Jul 2015, 20:13

    Three paras from the latest OSCE report

    The fighting at and around Donetsk airport continued with increased intensity. Between 08:00 and 18:00hrs, at the Joint Centre for Control and Co-ordination (JCCC) observation point at Donetsk central railway station (“Donetsk People’s Republic” (“DPR”)-controlled, 8km north-west of Donetsk city centre), the SMM heard a total of 306 explosions.[1]

    At the JCCC headquarters in Soledar (government-controlled, 75km north of Donetsk), the Ukrainian Armed Forces and the Russian Federation Armed Forces representatives at the JCCC presented the SMM with two separate logbooks. Out of 66 recorded ceasefire violations, the Ukrainian Armed Forces attributed 53 to the “DPR” and the “Lugansk People’s Republic” (“LPR”). The logbook presented by the Russian Federation Armed Forces indicated that 57 out of the recorded 74 ceasefire violations had been attributed to the Ukrainian Armed Forces.

    The SMM revisited three “DPR”*, two “LPR” and seven Ukrainian Armed Forces heavy weapons holding areas, the location of which complied with the respective withdrawal lines. At one “DPR” site, the SMM noted that a previously recorded artillery piece (122mm 2S1 “Gvozdika”) was missing. At the two “LPR” holding areas, the SMM found all previously recorded weapons to be in situ. At the Ukrainian Armed Forces holding areas, the SMM found some previously recorded weapons missing: one self-propelled howitzer (152mm 2S3 “Akatsiya”), two anti-tank guns (100mm 2A19 MT-12 “Rapira”), three multiple launch rocket systems (MLRS) (122mm BM-21 “Grad”), four towed howitzers (152mm “Msta-B”), and three towed howitzers (152mm 2A36 “Giatsint-B”).

    http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/169016
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    Post  Khepesh Thu 02 Jul 2015, 20:23

    ExBeobachter1987 wrote:
    Khepesh wrote:Also, if Shirokino is given up, then in order to show we are the good guys and want to save lives, why not give up Gorlovka, Donetsk, Lugansk, everything. If Shirokino is given up to save lives, then that argument is also valid for saying that Leningrad, Stalingrad and Voronezh should have been given up.

    Isn't Shirokino just an evacuated village?
    Yes, but it controls the road to Mariupol and is very close. If it is given up then Sakhanka becomes even more vulnerable and may in turn need to be evacuated. Then the next line of defence is anchored on Bezimenoe on the coast. That is to close to Novoazovsk and the border. The amount of manouver room for VSN is too small to pull back from anywhere. Latest report is that VSN have moved back into Shirokino, if they ever left, and I seriously doubt they did.
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    Post  sepheronx Thu 02 Jul 2015, 20:23

    Khepesh wrote:
    ExBeobachter1987 wrote:
    Khepesh wrote:Also, if Shirokino is given up, then in order to show we are the good guys and want to save lives, why not give up Gorlovka, Donetsk, Lugansk, everything. If Shirokino is given up to save lives, then that argument is also valid for saying that Leningrad, Stalingrad and Voronezh should have been given up.

    Isn't Shirokino just an evacuated village?
    Yes, but it controls the road to Mariupol and is very close. If it is given up then Sakhanka becomes even more vulnerable and may in turn need to be evacuated. Then the next line of defence is anchored on Bezimenoe on the coast. That is to close to Novoazovsk and the border. The amount of manouver room for VSN is too small to pull back from anywhere. Latest report is that VSN have moved back into Shirokino, if they ever left, and I seriously doubt they did.

    If that is the case, I doubt they even left and it was a media rumor. I didnt read it anywhere else.
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    Post  Khepesh Thu 02 Jul 2015, 20:25

    sepheronx wrote:
    Khepesh wrote:
    ExBeobachter1987 wrote:
    Khepesh wrote:Also, if Shirokino is given up, then in order to show we are the good guys and want to save lives, why not give up Gorlovka, Donetsk, Lugansk, everything. If Shirokino is given up to save lives, then that argument is also valid for saying that Leningrad, Stalingrad and Voronezh should have been given up.

    Isn't Shirokino just an evacuated village?
    Yes, but it controls the road to Mariupol and is very close. If it is given up then Sakhanka becomes even more vulnerable and may in turn need to be evacuated. Then the next line of defence is anchored on Bezimenoe on the coast. That is to close to Novoazovsk and the border. The amount of manouver room for VSN is too small to pull back from anywhere. Latest report is that VSN have moved back into Shirokino, if they ever left, and I seriously doubt they did.

    If that is the case, I doubt they even left and it was a media rumor. I didnt read it anywhere else.
    Basurin said it was so, and I think also Pushilin, but I have difficulty believing them on this affair.
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    Post  sepheronx Thu 02 Jul 2015, 20:31

    Khepesh wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:
    Khepesh wrote:
    ExBeobachter1987 wrote:
    Khepesh wrote:Also, if Shirokino is given up, then in order to show we are the good guys and want to save lives, why not give up Gorlovka, Donetsk, Lugansk, everything. If Shirokino is given up to save lives, then that argument is also valid for saying that Leningrad, Stalingrad and Voronezh should have been given up.

    Isn't Shirokino just an evacuated village?
    Yes, but it controls the road to Mariupol and is very close. If it is given up then Sakhanka becomes even more vulnerable and may in turn need to be evacuated. Then the next line of defence is anchored on Bezimenoe on the coast. That is to close to Novoazovsk and the border. The amount of manouver room for VSN is too small to pull back from anywhere. Latest report is that VSN have moved back into Shirokino, if they ever left, and I seriously doubt they did.

    If that is the case, I doubt they even left and it was a media rumor. I didnt read it anywhere else.
    Basurin said it was so, and I think also Pushilin, but I have difficulty believing them on this affair.

    Dont know, but I would wager of a great miscommunication. All previous reports point out to demilliterized point in agreement with osce, but if VSN moved back in after leaving, in such a short time, I wager it that you were right, they just didnt leave. Maybe units like you said, morters/artillery pulled back.
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    Post  Khepesh Thu 02 Jul 2015, 20:36

    ^ The situation has become bizarre, and perhaps best ignored until tomorrow when it should be clearer. Basurin has again stated that VSN have left Shirokino and Rossiya 24 are also reporting this. Unconfirmed reports fly around about bombardment of Sakhanka and that VSN either never left Shirokino, or left Shirokino and returned. It's all a total fuck up and I give up with it.
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    Post  Karl Haushofer Thu 02 Jul 2015, 20:50

    sepheronx wrote:I read Khepesh link and apparently they (naf) agreed to make it a demilliterized zone with OSCE. So chances are, Pukes will take it over and naf lost a village due to OSCE. Maybe they know this and are hoping to prove OSCE as agents helping Ukraine and then continue on conflict?

    And who will be their target audience for this? Whose minds are they trying to change by proving that OSCE is working for Kiev?
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    Post  Flagship Victory Thu 02 Jul 2015, 20:51

    I think what happens is Putin gave the order to withdraw from Shirokino so his friends in Kiev can beat NAF but the NAF fighters in Shirokino mutinied and disobeyed Putin's order.
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    Post  PapaDragon Thu 02 Jul 2015, 20:52

    So this happened..... Suspect lol1

    Klitschko has offered the winner of the European games selfie instead of an apartment

    The mayor of Kiev Vitali Klitschko offered medallist at the European games in Baku fighter Jean Belenko to take a selfie with him instead of assisting in obtaining new housing. The athlete wrote on his page in Instagram.


    http://lenta.ru/news/2015/07/02/selfie/

    "Our mayor is pretty. Instead of the apartment he offered me a selfie to do, so I agreed, of course," said Belenus in the caption to the photo with the Kyiv mayor.

    As reported XSport.ua earlier Greco-Roman style repeatedly complained about poor living conditions in the Ukrainian capital, after receiving the silver medal at the European games in Baku turned to Klitschko with the request for allocation of an apartment.

    Belenus is also a European champion 2014 and a bronze medal at the world Championships the same year. He was born in 1991 in Kiev in the family of Rwandan and Ukrainka.

    In the first European games, held from 12 to 28 June in Baku, the Ukrainian team took eighth place in the overall standings, having won 46 medals including 8 gold). The winner was the Russian team, the asset 164 medals (79 gold).
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    Post  Flagship Victory Thu 02 Jul 2015, 21:45

    Maidan says has taken Shirokino after heavy fighting with NAF

    http://www.mil.gov.ua/news/2015/07/02/znishhene-i-bezlyudne-shirokine-bojoviki-povertayut-ukrainczyam--/
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    Post  Karl Haushofer Thu 02 Jul 2015, 22:26

    Flagship Victory wrote:Maidan says has taken Shirokino after heavy fighting with NAF

    http://www.mil.gov.ua/news/2015/07/02/znishhene-i-bezlyudne-shirokine-bojoviki-povertayut-ukrainczyam--/

    Naturally. Expect the NAF to lose more ground. They have to adhere the Minsk agreement while their enemy is not bind by it. This puts the NAF against impossible odds on the battlefield.
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    Post  Erk Thu 02 Jul 2015, 22:29



    South Front update.

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    Post  Guest Thu 02 Jul 2015, 22:38

    Don't fret over the loss of Shirokino. I don't think that the NAF decided to pull back because the fighting was too harsh, but rather it is part of a greater plan.

    Remember the last time the Ukrops made such a deep incursion into Novorossiyan held territory? The Ukrops managed to capture a bunch of towns and villages the most notable being Debaltsevo. We all know how that ended for the Hohols.

    All we are waiting for is for Putin to drop the leash for the NAF who the Ukrops have taunting for months now.
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    Post  JohninMK Thu 02 Jul 2015, 22:59

    Ivan the Colorado wrote:Don't fret over the loss of Shirokino. I don't think that the NAF decided to pull back because the fighting was too harsh, but rather it is part of a greater plan.

    Remember the last time the Ukrops made such a deep incursion into Novorossiyan held territory? The Ukrops managed to capture a bunch of towns and villages the most notable being Debaltsevo. We all know how that ended for the Hohols.

    All we are waiting for is for Putin to drop the leash for the NAF who the Ukrops have taunting for months now.
    I would have thought that the closer the UA got to the border the more worried they would become about the source of any incoming. Its just a rocket or shell when it lands, whether it flew 5 or 50Km. But then this seems to be Azov so perhaps the UA are encouraging them into the potential future jaws of death.
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    Post  PapaDragon Thu 02 Jul 2015, 23:11

    JohninMK wrote:
    Ivan the Colorado wrote:Don't fret over the loss of Shirokino. I don't think that the NAF decided to pull back because the fighting was too harsh, but rather it is part of a greater plan.

    Remember the last time the Ukrops made such a deep incursion into Novorossiyan held territory? The Ukrops managed to capture a bunch of towns and villages the most notable being Debaltsevo. We all know how that ended for the Hohols.

    All we are waiting for is for Putin to drop the leash for the NAF who the Ukrops have taunting for months now.
    I would have thought that the closer the UA got to the border the more worried they would become about the source of any incoming. Its just a rocket or shell when it lands, whether it flew 5 or 50Km. But then this seems to be Azov so perhaps the UA are encouraging them into the potential future jaws of death.

    It does seem like a convenient method of removing rogue elements... Ukropistan is not exactly politically stable...
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    Post  Flagship Victory Fri 03 Jul 2015, 00:13

    IMF loans Maidan 1.7 billion USD for war

    http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine-abroad/wall-street-journal-imf-staff-approve-17-billion-loan-disbursal-for-ukraine-392561.html
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    Post  Neutrality Fri 03 Jul 2015, 01:39

    So the NAF pull out and VSU pull in and claim victory? I really fucking hope that this is some kind of a genius not-yet-clear-to-us plan because I don't fucking see how letting allow these shitlords position their artillery closer to other NAF held cities is a great idea. So if the report is true, where is the fucking OSCE with a condemnation already? Why are the other parties of the Normandy Four not talking about this shit? Jesus fucking Christ already, whole Europe is caught up with the Greek crisis, just use this opportunity to strike at these fucking disgrace of human beings AKA the Ukrainian army.
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    Post  Erk Fri 03 Jul 2015, 02:10

    Neutrality wrote:So the NAF pull out and VSU pull in and claim victory? I really fucking hope that this is some kind of a genius not-yet-clear-to-us plan because I don't fucking see how letting allow these shitlords position their artillery closer to other NAF held cities is a great idea. So if the report is true, where is the fucking OSCE with a condemnation already? Why are the other parties of the Normandy Four not talking about this shit? Jesus fucking Christ already, whole Europe is caught up with the Greek crisis, just use this opportunity to strike at these fucking disgrace of human beings AKA the Ukrainian army.

    I must admit, I don't understand the pull back strategy either. I know the NAF are stalling for time as much as they can to let Kiev drain it's funds on war, but giving up ground to them doesn't seem productive.

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    Post  PapaDragon Fri 03 Jul 2015, 02:36

    Erk wrote:
    Neutrality wrote:So the NAF pull out and VSU pull in and claim victory? I really fucking hope that this is some kind of a genius not-yet-clear-to-us plan because I don't fucking see how letting allow these shitlords position their artillery closer to other NAF held cities is a great idea. So if the report is true, where is the fucking OSCE with a condemnation already? Why are the other parties of the Normandy Four not talking about this shit? Jesus fucking Christ already, whole Europe is caught up with the Greek crisis, just use this opportunity to strike at these fucking disgrace of human beings AKA the Ukrainian army.

    I must admit, I don't understand the pull back strategy either. I know the NAF are stalling for time as much as they can to let Kiev drain it's funds on war, but giving up ground to them doesn't seem productive.


    Does anyone have a clue what is situation on the ground? Are they in or out (NAF)? Until we know that we are all just wasting oxigen and calories...

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