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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

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    Post  Ghoster Tue Jun 23, 2015 2:17 am

    As of 12:25AM local time, Dokuchayevsk was reported to be under massive artillery fire from Ukrainian positions for longer than an hour.

    http://dan-news.info/defence/vsu-vedut-obstrel-dokuchaevska-iz-gradov-minometov-i-gaubic-meriya.html

    1 civilian killed by Ukrainian shelling in Spartak. 3 private houses destroyed.

    http://dan-news.info/defence/v-rezultate-minometnogo-obstrela-spartaka-ukrainskimi-silovikami-pogib-mirnyj-zhitel.html
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    Post  Flagship Victory Tue Jun 23, 2015 2:22 am

    Is NAF firing back with artillery over 100 mm caliber?
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    Post  Guest Tue Jun 23, 2015 7:49 am

    Flagship Victory wrote:Is NAF firing back with artillery over 100 mm caliber?
    Who cares. The Rebels are damned by the OSCE even if they respond with munitions larger than the size of 5.45mm...
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    Post  Erk Tue Jun 23, 2015 7:57 am

    Ivan the Colorado wrote:
    Flagship Victory wrote:Is NAF firing back with artillery over 100 mm caliber?
    Who cares. The Rebels are damned by the OSCE even if they respond with munitions larger than the size of 5.45mm...

    I think the OSCE are spies, just a gut feeling, I thought they were ok at first, but then they just started to turn a blind eye to most of the shelling since Minsk 2 from the Ukraine side, so I lost faith in their neutrality.
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    Post  auslander Tue Jun 23, 2015 8:43 am

    [quote="Erk"Who cares. The Rebels are damned by the OSCE even if they respond with munitions larger than the size of 5.45mm...[/quote]

    I think the OSCE are spies, just a gut feeling, I thought they were ok at first, but then they just started to turn a blind eye to most of the shelling since Minsk 2 from the Ukraine side, so I lost faith in their neutrality.[/quote]

    If I remember correctly two OSCE cadre were caught red handed placing arty target indicators for the orcs in Donetsk City, my memory says two months ago.

    Arriving on sights they have no equipment what so ever beyond cell phones. From these wondrous devices they seem to be able to ascertain where an arty round or missile came from and who fired it. It admittedly does take some time for these incidents to be investigated back in their humble quarters, well, except for when the grads hit Mariupol a few months ago and when the claymore killed all those pensioners in the yellow bus north of Mariupol around the same time, the claymore magically becoming grad shrapnel in seconds, the Mariupol grads being ID'd as from DNR within 15 minutes of on target explosions. I need to get me one of those phones.
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    Post  whir Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:50 am

    BBC wrote:Ukraine crisis: Yanukovych regrets bloodshed in Kiev
    By Gabriel Gatehouse BBC Newsnight 8 hours ago

    Ukraine's former President Viktor Yanukovych has said he accepts some responsibility for the killings that led to his overthrow in February 2014.

    "I don't deny my responsibility," he told BBC Newsnight, when asked about the shooting of demonstrators in Kiev's Maidan Square.

    He never ordered the security forces to open fire, he said, but admitted he had not done enough to prevent bloodshed.

    It is his first Western media interview since the civil war erupted last year.

    "I did not give any orders [to use firearms], that was not my authority… I was against any use of force, let alone the use of firearms, I was against bloodshed.

    "But the members of the security forces fulfilled their duties according to existing laws. They had the right to use weapons," he said.

    More than 100 protesters died in the clashes on Kiev's central square, where huge crowds had confronted police for months.

    A year after the bloodshed some witnesses told the BBC that fatal shots had also been fired at the police.

    In February 2014 Mr Yanukovych was whisked away by Russian special forces to a safe haven in Russia. Continue reading.

    John Travolta wrote:Russian media report on the new bridge rebuilt in the insurgents-held Gorlovka, Ukraine
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    Post  flamming_python Tue Jun 23, 2015 10:22 am

    Russian Special Forces evacuated Yanukovich?

    Proof?
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    Post  whir Tue Jun 23, 2015 10:50 am

    flamming_python wrote:Russian Special Forces evacuated Yanukovich? Proof?
    Россия 24 wrote:Crimea. Way home. Documentary Andrei Kondrashov
    I don't know if the reenactment for the documentary qualifies as proof but Putin himself describes the operation in 'Crimea. The Way Home' (english subtitles).
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    Post  Guest Tue Jun 23, 2015 10:54 am

    flamming_python wrote:Russian Special Forces evacuated Yanukovich?

    Proof?
    None actually. There was security cam footage that showed Yanukovich moments before he left Kiev at his mansion. "Whisked away" is not really the case either as he looked like he was leaving on his own accord, not like Putin or co. had ordered him to withdraw. I'm sure he had a security detail but it wasn't Spetsnaz operators for sure. I'll see if I can find that footage again.
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    Post  whir Tue Jun 23, 2015 11:11 am

    Ivan the Colorado wrote:None actually. There was security cam footage that showed Yanukovich moments before he left Kiev at his mansion. "Whisked away" is not really the case either as he looked like he was leaving on his own accord, not like Putin or co. had ordered him to withdraw. I'm sure he had a security detail but it wasn't Spetsnaz operators for sure. I'll see if I can find that footage again.
    Ep.1 - Saving President Yanukovich 7:00 onwards.
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    Post  Guest Tue Jun 23, 2015 11:14 am

    whir wrote:
    Ivan the Colorado wrote:None actually. There was security cam footage that showed Yanukovich moments before he left Kiev at his mansion. "Whisked away" is not really the case either as he looked like he was leaving on his own accord, not like Putin or co. had ordered him to withdraw. I'm sure he had a security detail but it wasn't Spetsnaz operators for sure. I'll see if I can find that footage again.
    Ep.1 - Saving President Yanukovich 7:00 onwards.
    Thank you.
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    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt Tue Jun 23, 2015 11:14 am

    whir wrote:
    Your wrong then.
    I'm not because if I was everything would be different.

    whir,

    I have to point out that your assertion is "obviously" a non sequitur.
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    Post  whir Tue Jun 23, 2015 11:54 am

    Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:I have to point out that your assertion is "obviously" a non sequitur.
    I decided to play the liar's paradox but failed and ended with just a poor maximalist claim, my fault.
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    Post  JohninMK Tue Jun 23, 2015 12:03 pm

    whir wrote:
    Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:I have to point out that your assertion is "obviously" a non sequitur.
    I decided to play the liar's paradox but failed and ended with just a poor maximalist claim, my fault.
    Bloody hell! You lots grasp of English with a little Latin thrown in is better than mine and I'm English. Hangs head in shame.
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    Post  flamming_python Tue Jun 23, 2015 12:07 pm

    What - we really bothered to rescue his fat corrupt incompetent ass?
    What the hell for?

    I suppose he had a couple of potential uses but none were employed in the end.

    Instead we had a series of live comedy shows in the form of his press-conferences in Rostov where he claimed that he's still the president, will return to Kiev soon, etc... what else other than blunt lies can you expect from a lardass of his calibre.

    Personally I'm still for doing a Running Man show out of him; let's see how long he will last in Ukr territory before being lynched.
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    Post  Neutrality Tue Jun 23, 2015 12:10 pm

    flamming_python wrote:What - we really bothered to rescue his fat corrupt incompetent ass?
    What the hell for?

    I suppose he had a couple of potential uses but none were employed in the end.

    Instead we had a series of live comedy shows in the form of his press-conferences in Rostov where he claimed that he's still the president, will return to Kiev soon, etc... what else other than blunt lies can you expect from a lardass of his calibre.

    Personally I'm still for doing a Running Man show out of him; let's see how long he will last in Ukr territory before being lynched.

    A scenario in which he returns to Kiev after the country is torn apart, Poroshenko fleein the country and his government cronies with him, is not impossible IMHO.
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    Post  PapaDragon Tue Jun 23, 2015 12:36 pm

    Guys, I am touched by your gentle innocence with regards to OSCE but can we simply accept the fact already that those asshats are not impartial?

    I made several post about what they and other "impartial" organizations were doing here (and still do for the most part).

    What reason would they have to be impartial?
    EU is rightfully compared to ponzi scheme and if EU was a corporation then OSCE would be PR department that facilitates hostile takeovers.
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    Post  ExBeobachter1987 Tue Jun 23, 2015 12:48 pm

    flamming_python wrote:What - we really bothered to rescue his fat corrupt incompetent ass?
    What the hell for?

    He was part of the cooperative Ukrainian elite.
    The Russian elite cares for them more than the average Russian citizen.
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    Post  whir Tue Jun 23, 2015 1:15 pm

    flamming_python wrote:What - we really bothered to rescue his fat corrupt incompetent ass?
    What the hell for?
    Because it was what had to be done politically. Just take a look at yesterday's interview on BBC it wouldn't be possible otherwise.

    He being able to speak about the events that preceded his ousting or his first hand accounts about his meeting with foreign politicians still in office have value on it's own.
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    Post  Flagship Victory Tue Jun 23, 2015 1:37 pm

    1 Maidan soldier KIA and 12 more WIA yesterday

    http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/one-ukrainian-soldier-killed-12-injured-in-donbas-in-past-24-hours-391804.html
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    Post  Flagship Victory Tue Jun 23, 2015 1:56 pm

    Did Russia move Yanukovych to Moscow? No wonder why Maidan succeeded. dunno
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    Post  whir Tue Jun 23, 2015 2:33 pm

    Bloomberg wrote:IMF Staff Said to View Ukraine Russia Bond as Official Debt
    by Elena PopinaMarton Eder June 23, 2015 — 12:22 AM CEST Updated on June 23, 2015 — 1:12 PM CEST

    International Monetary Fund staff formed a preliminary view that $3 billion in bonds sold to Russia by Ukraine should be classified as official rather than private debt, according to a person familiar with the matter.

    Treating the bonds as state aid, as Russia has sought, would exclude them from the bond restructuring Ukraine is negotiating with a creditor group led by Franklin Templeton, potentially placing a greater burden on private bondholders.

    A ruling in favor of Moscow would remove another source of conflict for Ukraine, which has been fighting an insurgency against pro-Russian separatists in its easternmost regions for more than a year. It may also raise tensions with private bondholders with whom it has been deadlocked over the need for a writedown to principal. Ukraine paid a $75 million coupon on the bond Monday.

    “It makes unclear things clear and brings some order into long-lasting disputes,” Vladimir Miklashevsky, a strategist at Danske Bank A/S in Helsinki, said by e-mail Tuesday. “We shouldn’t exclude full repayment as there is a will to do things correctly: coupons were paid on time. However, if the coffer is empty, a pure will is not enough.”

    The status of the bonds is subject to approval by the IMF’s executive board, said the person, who asked not to be identified because the deliberations are private. Russia has said its debt should be treated as official aid and repaid in full when the bonds mature in December, while Ukraine argues that the debt was structured as a Eurobond under U.K. law and is therefore liable to the same treatment as private creditors. Continue reading.

    Reuters wrote:U.S. to pre-position tanks, artillery in Baltics, eastern Europe
    World | Tue Jun 23, 2015 7:06am EDT Related: WORLD TALLINN | BY PHIL STEWART

    The United States will pre-position tanks, artillery and other military equipment in eastern and central Europe, U.S. Defense Secretary Ash Carter announced on Tuesday, moving to reassure NATO allies unnerved by Russia's intervention in Ukraine.

    Carter, during a trip to Tallinn, said the Baltic states - Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia -- as well as Bulgaria, Romania and Poland agreed to host elements of this equipment. Some of the equipment would also be located in Germany.

    After Russia annexed Ukraine's Crimea region last year, NATO leaders agreed to step up exercises and rotations of forces through NATO allies in eastern Europe as well as storing hardware there for use in an emergency.

    The United States had not formally disclosed where in Europe the equipment would be stored but news reports about military planning triggered an angry response from Moscow ahead of Carter's trip to Europe this week. Continue reading.

    VZ via Google Translate wrote:Кандидатов в украинскую армию начали искать через интернет
    The candidates in the Ukrainian army began to look through the Internet
    June 23, 2015, 10:25

    Recruitment Agency of Ukraine started to publish job tankers and marines sites job search, write Ukrainian media.

    Potential candidates for the Ukrainian army salary offer from 4 thousand. Hryvnia (about $ 180) and promise that in three months the instructors from Canada, England and the United States will have "real commandos." Ukrainian entered the service may be candidates without seniority and the army of women.

    One of the portals organization "People's Militia Mykolayiv" invites young people to maritime pehotentsev positions, tanks and artillery. For service in the Marines promised to 4,5 thousand hryvnia (about 206 dollars), this amount is doubled during the service in the area of ​​so-called UTA. "The command of the Navy (Navy) Ukraine declares a set in an elite special unit of the Marine Corps. The detachment is planned to prepare the procedure "seals United States." Accepted man with a good physical training from 18 to 42 years old who have a stable mind and do not tend to drink alcohol, "- said in the announcement.

    The representative of the Employer informed Ukrainian edition of "Vesti", that after four months of service will be given to all military 0.15 hectares of land for housing. Military specialty at the entry level have not necessarily. Continue reading.

    News-Front wrote:Andrew Purgin: On reports of the OSCE there is no response

    LifeNews via Google Translate wrote:Пианистка Валентина Лисица выступила перед жителями Донецка
    The pianist Valentina Lisitsa addressed the people of Donetsk
    22:55 June 22, 2015

    On the concert of American singer came about 6000 people.

    American pianist Valentina Lisitsa Ukrainian origin arrived in Donetsk with a concert to mark the 74th anniversary of the Great Patriotic War. The concert began with works by Sergei Prokofiev, in whose honor was named not only the ensemble artist. In the Donetsk International Airport there named after Sergei Prokofiev, which was completely destroyed. To honor the memory of the fallen in the Great Patriotic War in the park were more than 6000 people. Continue reading.

    Ruptly TV wrote:LIVE: Valentina Lisitsa to give concert in Donetsk

    Graham Phillips wrote:Валентина Лисица - клип 1 - Донецк 22.06.2015 / Valentina Lisitsa - Clip, Donetsk Concert
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    Post  Cowboy's daughter Tue Jun 23, 2015 2:47 pm

    Anything anyone would like to add about this article? Any insight, etc????


    Inside Kiev’s war A look at who is fighting the separatists in Ukraine


    https://meduza.io/en/feature/2015/06/22/inside-kiev-s-war
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    Post  Cowboy's daughter Tue Jun 23, 2015 2:58 pm

    Not exactly a "riot", but molotov cocktails may start flying soon...


    Food Riots in Poroshenko's Stores "Roshen" in Kiev, Ukraine
    Published on Jun 22, 2015

    Young activists protesting inflation and the high cost of living since the coup and civil war, decide to help themselves in one of Poroshenko's Roshen chocolate Stores.

    The only downside is that the financial losses they cause will be deducted from salaries of the store workers. So basically these young people just ate store workers' monthly salaries.

    Don't feel bad for Poroshenko, because as an oligarch he had already stolen their future, and will just find other ways to continue stealing from them.

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    Post  Flagship Victory Tue Jun 23, 2015 3:01 pm

    Cowboy's daughter wrote:Anything anyone would like to add about this article? Any insight, etc????


    Inside Kiev’s war A look at who is fighting the separatists in Ukraine


    https://meduza.io/en/feature/2015/06/22/inside-kiev-s-war


    I do not agree. The Crimea campaign was largely bloodless because Maidan knew it was RUSSIA officially involved. So Maidan never dared to fight in Crimea and still does not dare to shell Crimea. Maidan's morale, if anything, is lower now compared to late February last year. The reason Maidan shells Donbas is because it is apparent Russia does not recognize Donbas or aid Donbas with peacekeepers. If Russia aids Donbas with peacekeepers, you can bet your horses that Maidan would immediately stop shelling Donbas.

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