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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Flagship Victory
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    Post  Flagship Victory on Sun Jun 21, 2015 6:04 pm

    flamming_python wrote:You should be happy; they de-facto accepted that the Crimea is no longer their territory.

    Never underestimate an opponennt, especially not the hardcore fascist Maidan. You can be sure, if and when NAF falls, the next target is Crimea. Maidan has NEVER said Crimea is not part of Ukraine. In fact, the EU maintains sanctions on Russia UNTIL Russia gives Crimea back to Ukraine. Crimea is a very dangerous issue. One not to be overlooked. You can be sure, Maidan and its western backers will never give up on Crimea.


    Last edited by Flagship Victory on Sun Jun 21, 2015 6:09 pm; edited 4 times in total
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    Post  Nikander on Sun Jun 21, 2015 6:05 pm

    I can't believe that people here are constantly replying to this Flagship clown. The guy supports ISIS and AI-Qaeda in Syria and you think that he's on the side of Russia here? He is such an obvious Bandera troll that it's unbelievable how many times have most of you fallen for his bait. He needs to be ignored just like Karl the Finn and any other troll. And it's not hard to see who is trolling, you just need to read with focus and over time clear clues will appear that will expose the troll.
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    Post  auslander on Sun Jun 21, 2015 6:21 pm

    Nikander wrote:I can't believe that people here are constantly replying to this Flagship clown. The guy supports ISIS and AI-Qaeda in Syria and you think that he's on the side of Russia here? He is such an obvious Bandera troll that it's unbelievable how many times have most of you fallen for his bait. He needs to be ignored just like Karl the Finn and any other troll. And it's not hard to see who is trolling, you just need to read with focus and over time clear clues will appear that will expose the troll.

    I read him and a couple others quite some time ago, that is why he has the coveted Sophia Ignore Trophy.
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    Post  Nikander on Sun Jun 21, 2015 6:37 pm

    auslander wrote:
    Nikander wrote:I can't believe that people here are constantly replying to this Flagship clown. The guy supports ISIS and AI-Qaeda in Syria and you think that he's on the side of Russia here? He is such an obvious Bandera troll that it's unbelievable how many times have most of you fallen for his bait. He needs to be ignored just like Karl the Finn and any other troll. And it's not hard to see who is trolling, you just need to read with focus and over time clear clues will appear that will expose the troll.

    I read him and a couple others quite some time ago, that is why he has the coveted Sophia Ignore Trophy.

    Yes, you my friend and a couple of others didn't get fooled but for some reason others seem to fall for his shit all the time. That includes some of the best posters here like Vann, Flamming, sepheronx...
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    Post  auslander on Sun Jun 21, 2015 6:45 pm

    Nikander wrote:
    auslander wrote:
    Nikander wrote:I can't believe that people here are constantly replying to this Flagship clown. The guy supports ISIS and AI-Qaeda in Syria and you think that he's on the side of Russia here? He is such an obvious Bandera troll that it's unbelievable how many times have most of you fallen for his bait. He needs to be ignored just like Karl the Finn and any other troll. And it's not hard to see who is trolling, you just need to read with focus and over time clear clues will appear that will expose the troll.

    I read him and a couple others quite some time ago, that is why he has the coveted Sophia Ignore Trophy.

    Yes, you my friend and a couple of others didn't get fooled but for some reason others seem to fall for his shit all the time. That includes some of the best posters here like Vann, Flamming, sepheronx...

    I am all for spirited and diverse dialog but one has to contribute a bit to the discussion, not just the same old mantra day in and day out, hence him being in possession of the trophy.
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    Post  Flagship Victory on Sun Jun 21, 2015 6:47 pm

    You know what? I'm all ears. I'd like to hear your opinion about Putin's action. If I were Putin, I'd arm NAF with Kornet missiles and fight to Kiev, arrest Poroshenko. Why? Because you cannot negotiate with Maidan. NAF does not lack manpower. Before Maidan coup, the ousted Party of Regions and Communists had majority of votes. What NAF lacks is foreign support. I'd like to hear what would you do if you were Putin.

    I'm not criticizing Putin. But I will be blunt. If Russia were the west, Putin would have been removed from office. The west will never tolerate a genocide of our people right on our border.

    There is a good Chinese saying.  打狗欺主. Beat a dog and you humiliate the dog's owner. Sure, eastern Ukrainians are not Russians by nationality, but they are Russians by ethnicity. Shelling ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine serves nothing but humiliate Russia.

    Putin says he will not solve the Ukraine problem. Seriously? dunno

    http://www.dw.com/en/only-the-west-can-solve-ukraine-crisis-says-putin/a-18527144

    I'm not criticizing Putin, but I must warn you, I think Putin suffers from some syndrome that makes him out of touch with reality. I quote what he recently says about Syria.

    Our fear is that Syria could plunge into the same situation as Libya and Iraq," Putin said in response to questions at Russia's annual economic forum in St Petersburg.

    "We don't want that ... in Syria."


    http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Sisi-expects-Assad-regime-in-Syria-to-fall-at-any-moment-406617

    WHAT? dunno Syria is already way worse than Libya and Iraq. Even people on PDF says Putin is out of touch with reality.


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    Post  gregoire on Sun Jun 21, 2015 7:07 pm

    Flagship Victory wrote:You know what? I'm all ears. I'd like to hear your opinion about Putin's action. If I were Putin, I'd arm NAF with Kornet missiles and fight to Kiev, arrest Poroshenko. Why? Because you cannot negotiate with Maidan. NAF does not lack manpower. Before Maidan coup, the ousted Party of Regions and Communists had majority of votes. What NAF lacks is foreign support. I'd like to hear what would you do if you were Putin.

    I'm not criticizing Putin. But I will be blunt. If Russia were the west, Putin would have been removed from office. The west will never tolerate a genocide of our people right on our border.

    There is a good Chinese saying.  打狗欺主. Beat a dog and you humiliate the dog's owner. Sure, eastern Ukrainians are not Russians by nationality, but they are Russians by ethnicity. Shelling ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine serves nothing but humiliate Russia.

    Putin says he will not solve the Ukraine problem. Seriously? dunno

    http://www.dw.com/en/only-the-west-can-solve-ukraine-crisis-says-putin/a-18527144

    I'd do exactly what he was doing right now.

    I'll explain.
    The enemy is not kiev, you should know that by now.
    To win a war is to make sure the enemy (remember, not kiev) does not want to fight it. Furthermore to deprive the enemy of replenishment (money).
    As I see it, Russia is doing a good job in both departments.

    I truly wish east-ukraine had gotten a better deal but as some of us remember, they were almost dead and buried at slavyansk.


    Last edited by gregoire on Sun Jun 21, 2015 7:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  Flagship Victory on Sun Jun 21, 2015 7:11 pm

    I'm not criticizing Putin. But I must warn you, I think Putin suffers from some syndrome that makes him out of touch with reality. I quote what he recently says about Syria.

    "Our fear is that Syria could plunge into the same situation as Libya and Iraq," Putin said in response to questions at Russia's annual economic forum in St Petersburg.

    "We don't want that ... in Syria."

    http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Sisi-expects-Assad-regime-in-Syria-to-fall-at-any-moment-406617

    WHAT?  Shocked  Syria is already way worse than Libya and Iraq. Even people on Pakistani Defense Forum say Putin is out of touch with reality.

    The people of Donbas picked a hellova time to rebel. They never should have put their lives at risk.

    And before you say Putin's legacy is restoring Crimea to Russia, please remember that it was Strelkov and his grunts who disobyed authority, resigned from work, risked their lives, went to Crimea in late February who took control of Crimea from Maidan. Putin only got involved much later and signed the accession document. Had it not been for Strelkov and his grunts, Crimea would have been lost to Maidan.


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    Post  gregoire on Sun Jun 21, 2015 7:16 pm

    Flagship Victory wrote:I'm not criticizing Putin. But I must warn you, I think Putin suffers from some syndrome that makes him out of touch with reality. I quote what he recently says about Syria.

    Our fear is that Syria could plunge into the same situation as Libya and Iraq," Putin said in response to questions at Russia's annual economic forum in St Petersburg.

    "We don't want that ... in Syria."

    http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Sisi-expects-Assad-regime-in-Syria-to-fall-at-any-moment-406617

    WHAT? dunno Syria is already way worse than Libya and Iraq. Even people on PDF says Putin is out of touch with reality.

    The people of Donbas picked a hellova time to rebel. They never should have put their lives at risk.

    I am not "Putins" physician, same as you. In your mind Syria is way worse then Libya and Iraq but I disagree. Maybe you should do a bit of digging and find some more truths surrounding the situation in Syria. It is complex but you might enjoy it.
    The people in Donbass were already on the brink of destruction. What would you do if you had the choice; seeing your wife and daughter raped in front of you eyes, shot and buried, then you tortured, sodomised, shot and buried and this for everyone in a 20 miles radius. I bet you'd fight if there was a shot at survival or dignity.
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    Post  Flagship Victory on Sun Jun 21, 2015 7:21 pm

    gregoire wrote:I am not "Putins" physician, same as you.  In your mind Syria is way worse then Libya and Iraq but I disagree. Maybe you should do a bit of digging and find some more truths surrounding the situation in Syria. It is complex but you might enjoy it.
    The people in Donbass were already on the brink of destruction. What would you do if you had the choice; seeing your wife and daughter raped in front of you eyes, shot and buried, then you tortured, sodomised, shot and buried and this for everyone in a 20 miles radius. I bet you'd fight if there was a shot at survival or dignity.

    Let's do a little math shall we? How many died in Libya? A few thousand. How many died in Syria? Hundreds of thousands. Economy destroyed. Country destroyed. Millions of refugees. When Putin says Syria might become like Libya, he would have been diagnosed as clinically insane in the west. It is fortunate for Putin that he is a Russian and not a westerner. cheers Here in the west, it is very harsh to politicians.


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    Post  BKP on Sun Jun 21, 2015 7:23 pm

    Flagship Victory wrote:I'm not criticizing Putin.

    lol1
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    Post  whir on Sun Jun 21, 2015 7:25 pm

    flamming_python wrote:The Ukraine, even under its illegal government, is nontheless under no obligation to supply water to another country; or am I wrong?
    You're wrong, both Ukraine and Russian Federation are signatories of the Water Convention that regulates transboundary watercourses that also include artificial watercourses. The convention not only covers environmental aspects like pollution but also stipulates a payment system based on usage and the prohibition of manmade droughts by either diversion or destruction of those transboundary watercourses.

    flamming_python wrote:Same thing with the pensions, financial transactions, transport, electricity, water, etc... blockade on the Donbass.
    Kiev has certain binding obligations like the Ukrainian constitution and the international treaties it has signed.

    flamming_python wrote:It's not very humanitarian or nice, but blockades are very standard practise for countries at war.
    Ukraine is a lawless place hyperbolically speaking but from that to justifying this everything goes is more dangerous than any shelling.
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    Post  Flagship Victory on Sun Jun 21, 2015 7:26 pm

    BKP wrote:
    Flagship Victory wrote:I'm not criticizing Putin.

    lol1

    When Putins says Syria, where hundreds of thousands died, millions homeless, everything in ruins COULD become like Libya were only a few thousand died, I shudder to think what Putin thinks of Donbas, where nearly 7,000 already died. Putin probably still thinks Donetsk is like Moscow. Shocked Putin should take a trip to Donetsk and see for himself. Maybe that way he'll know what is reality, what is fantasy.

    Donetsk is the most Russian city of Ukraine. If Donetsk is leveled, the tens of millions of ethnic Russian Ukrainians would be in jeopardy. And please, don't even mention Klimkin that traitor. He's nothing but PR so Maidan says hey look we don't treat Russians bad, even our foreign minister is a Russian. Shocked


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    Post  TheArmenian on Sun Jun 21, 2015 7:30 pm

    Flagship Victory wrote:I'm not criticizing Putin.

    Joke of the day.

    lol1 lol1 lol1
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    Post  Flagship Victory on Sun Jun 21, 2015 7:34 pm

    Again, I call upon Putin to visit Donetsk. See for himself what is happening. Putin simply does not grasp reality when he says Syria is all fine and dandy. No, that is not reality, that is fantasy. No leader on this planet is as out of touch with reality as Putin is. Simply a tradegy for the Russian people.

    As for Crimea, I'm sure Putin will give Crimea to Ukraine after 2017. In a recent interview Putin says he will fulfill the Kharkov treaty which expires in 2017. Putin is a very diplomatic leader. To him, partnership with the EU is more important than a peninsula exclave. Putin cares very much about keeping face. He would never have the EU sanction Russia forever. Therefore he will give Crimea back to Ukraine so that the EU drops sanctions on Russia. The Black Sea Fleet could be relocated to Novorossiysk.

    Westerners understand Putin's psychology and they know exactly what to do with Putin. Here in the west, psychology is a BIG BIG field. If you notice, when Putin talks during interview, he does not have confidence. He makes subtle facial movements and he stammers and he avoids eye contact. In fact, when Putin signed the Crimea accession treaty, he did it on emotion, angry at what Maidan did to Yanukovych. This anger is gone. Putin is no longer angry with Maidan. In fact, Putin watches euronews which is why he saw what Maidan did to Yanokovych but he does not see what Maidan does to Donetsk. So Putin does not understand what is going on in Donetsk. He does not know Maidan has broken Minsk and is shelling Donetsk. Why? Because euronews does not show it.


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    Post  BKP on Sun Jun 21, 2015 7:36 pm

    Flagship Victory wrote:
    BKP wrote:
    Flagship Victory wrote:I'm not criticizing Putin.

    lol1

    When Putins says Syria, where hundreds of thousands died, millions homeless, everything in ruins COULD become like Libya were only a few thousand died, I shudder to think what Putin thinks of Donbas, where nearly 7,000 already died. Putin probably still thinks Donetsk is like Moscow. Shocked Putin should take a trip to Donetsk and see for himself. Maybe that way he'll know what is reality, what is fantasy.
    Yah, whatever dude. Putin probably thinks living in Donetsk is more fun than a ski vacation in Sochi. Rolling Eyes

    You know, more generally, I have to give you credit. You manage to drive more discussion & get more replies than any other single poster when it comes to the topic of this thread. And, you seem to be succeeding in driving auslander mad. Even in regard to trolling, I have to admire success when I see it.


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    Post  whir on Sun Jun 21, 2015 7:37 pm

    Novorossia Today wrote:More than three thousand people gave an oath of loyalty to the Republic in Donetsk
    on: June 21, 2015

    About three thousand people gave an oath of loyalty to the Donetsk People’s Republic in the capital of the DPR today. The ceremony was attended by Vice-Speaker of the People’s Council of the DPR Denis Pushilin, representatives of public movement “The Donetsk Republic”, sportsmen, volunteers, Donetsk dwellers and guests of the capital.

    The festivity was dedicated to the anniversary of the first oath of the people’s militiamen. Today in commemoration of this event the citizens swore “to defend the Motherland fro the enemies, to strictly abide by the laws, safeguard peace and remember the heroic deeds of the troopers, who gave their lives for their native land, and also to be loyal to Donbass”.

    There were many children among the participants of the event. Each child was presented with an ice-cream and balloons in the colour of the Republican flag. Continue reading.

    Суть Времени wrote:Texas brought humanitarian aid to wk 28. Humanitarian aid for school TV SV-28 DNR Issue 490
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    Post  Flagship Victory on Sun Jun 21, 2015 7:55 pm

    Lithuania has started arming Maidan. Lithuania recently bought hundreds of Javelin anti tank missiles from the US on IMF money, so it is likely the US is supplying Javelin anti tank missiles to Maidan by way of Lithuania rather than directly from the US.

    http://uatoday.tv/politics/lithuania-to-become-first-country-to-arm-ukraine-against-russia-442955.html

    The only Russian missile that can counter Javelin is Kornet, which NAF does not have at the moment.
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    Post  Flagship Victory on Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:17 pm

    In Syria there were a number of officers who defected from the regime. In Ukraine only 1 officer defected, a former SBU commander. I suspect it is because they are scared to defect for their families. If NAF advances and takes territory, then those officers would move their families to NAF controlled territories and defect.
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    Post  mack8 on Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:18 pm

    Crap, i just mistakenly upvoted one of the "western" troll's posts, when i really intended to DOWNVOTE it. I'll make up for tomorrow.

    As for the trolling part, well all i can recommend is downvoting, ignoring his posts and not be provoked by it (i'm talking here to the serious posters who actually have valuable insight and info on this Ukraine mess). You can also bring it to the mods attention, i did but they but looks like they did not found fit to do anything at that time...
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    Post  gregoire on Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:35 pm

    Flagship Victory wrote:
    gregoire wrote:I am not "Putins" physician, same as you.  In your mind Syria is way worse then Libya and Iraq but I disagree. Maybe you should do a bit of digging and find some more truths surrounding the situation in Syria. It is complex but you might enjoy it.
    The people in Donbass were already on the brink of destruction. What would you do if you had the choice; seeing your wife and daughter raped in front of you eyes, shot and buried, then you tortured, sodomised, shot and buried and this for everyone in a 20 miles radius. I bet you'd fight if there was a shot at survival or dignity.

    Let's do a little math shall we? How many died in Libya? A few thousand. How many died in Syria? Hundreds of thousands. Economy destroyed. Country destroyed. Millions of refugees. When Putin says Syria might become like Libya, he would have been diagnosed as clinically insane in the west. It is fortunate for Putin that he is a Russian and not a westerner. cheers Here in the west, it is very harsh to politicians.

    I don't claim to know it better than "putin" either. But I see you reserve that right for yourself.
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    Post  kvs on Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:40 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:This is the Army Mr. Holhol....  lol1


    Farewell to Arms: Over 10,000 Soldiers Desert Ukrainian Army

    Desertion galore: Ukrainian men understand the absurdity of the war their government is waging.


    http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150621/1023647747.html

    More than 10,000 cases of desertion have been registered in the Ukrainian Army since the outbreak of the Donbass war in April 2014, Ukrainian Vesti reported.

    In 2014 the army suffered heavy desertion and nearly 30 percent of the servicemen called up in the first wave of mobilization (March 17) abandoned their positions, Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko said.

    Ukrainian parliament Verkhovna Rada has announced six waves of mobilization so far. By the end of 2014 the strength of Ukrainian Armed Forces grew from 130,000 to 232,000.

    Ukrainians have been protesting against the mobilization. They travel to work abroad or simply reside at their relatives' in other countries. Almost 1,3 million Ukrainian draftees live in Russia.

    Since April 7, 2014 the Kiev authorities have been waging war against Donbass self-defense forces who rejected the legitimacy of the coup-imposed Ukrainian government and declared the independent republics of Donetsk and Lugansk.

    Official figures estimate the number of victims to near 6,500. But the German intelligence reported of 50,000 victims in February 2015.

    Although I think that 10.000 might be underreporting it... Razz


    Indeed, it is a gross underestimate. The reason why the Kiev regime has had to have something like five mobilizations already and
    included prisoners and mental patients in its draft is because most draftees are evading it. I would estimate that the true number
    is well over 150,000. If the regime draft was succeeding they would have had over 200,000 soldiers by now. They have about 70,000
    consisting mostly of Maidan maggots.
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    Post  Flagship Victory on Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:41 pm

    It's true that NAF will not fall even if Donetsk is leveled. Why? Because Donetsk is connected to Russia and there are always Russians going to Donetsk. Years from now, Donetsk will be very different from what it was before Maidan attack. The city will always remain, the demographics will be very different.


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    Post  Guest on Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:42 pm

    Flagship Victory wrote:Lithuania has started arming Maidan. Lithuania recently bought hundreds of Javelin anti tank missiles from the US on IMF money, so it is likely the US is supplying Javelin anti tank missiles to Maidan by way of Lithuania rather than directly from the US.

    http://uatoday.tv/politics/lithuania-to-become-first-country-to-arm-ukraine-against-russia-442955.html

    The only Russian missile that can counter Javelin is Kornet, which NAF does not have at the moment.
    Lithuania will not send Ukraine any Javelins rest assured. Those FGM-148s are meant for Lithuania to counter Russian tanks rolling over their own borders and the Lithuanian Government is convinced this will happen so they are not giving up their most prized weapons to deal with the older tanks in the NAF's service which is mostly comprised of T-64s and T-72s. Expect small arms from the Lithuanians.
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    Post  Flagship Victory on Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:47 pm

    Ivan the Colorado wrote:Lithuania will not send Ukraine any Javelins rest assured. Those FGM-148s are meant for Lithuania to counter Russian tanks rolling over their own borders and the Lithuanian Government is convinced this will happen so they are not giving up their most prized weapons to deal with the older tanks in the NAF's service which is mostly comprised of T-64s and T-72s. Expect small arms from the Lithuanians.

    Being a NATO member, Lithuania knows Russia will not invade Lithuania. Plus, Lithuania is nothing but an American puppet. Those Javelins go to Maidan for sure.

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