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    S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

    SOC
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    Post  SOC Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:43 pm

    I wonder, will these go somewhere other than around Moscow as was indicated in one of the interviews in here? It'll be interesting to see if they show up someplace like the Kola Peninsula or Petropavlovsk, or if they start displacing S-300PS/PM batteries around St. Petersburg.
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    Post  Russian Patriot Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:58 pm

    SOC wrote:I wonder, will these go somewhere other than around Moscow as was indicated in one of the interviews in here? It'll be interesting to see if they show up someplace like the Kola Peninsula or Petropavlovsk, or if they start displacing S-300PS/PM batteries around St. Petersburg.

    Kinda answers this:
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    Post  medo Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:50 am

    As I know, one regiment of S-400 is also in Russian Far East in Nakhodka.
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    Post  Arrow Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:54 am

    As I know, one regiment of S-400 is also in Russian Far East in Nakhodka.

    One regiment or one batalion. Why S-400 batalion has only 8 launcher? Standart S-300 batalion has 12 launcher.
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    Post  Viktor Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:16 am

    Arrow wrote:
    As I know, one regiment of S-400 is also in Russian Far East in Nakhodka.

    One regiment or one batalion. Why S-400 batalion has only 8 launcher? Standart S-300 batalion has 12 launcher.

    12 launcher is maximum not standard number of launchers in S-300 battalion, 8 or sometimes even less can be standard.

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    Post  Arrow Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:22 pm

    How much cost one battalion S-400? I heard that the system is very expensive.
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    Post  TR1 Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:57 pm

    Arrow wrote:How much cost one battalion S-400? I heard that the system is very expensive.

    With the kind of radars and missile equipment in a battalion, I would be shocked it it wasn't a pretty penny.
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    Post  GarryB Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:00 am

    How much cost one battalion S-400? I heard that the system is very expensive.

    I suspect it will be very expensive, yet still not as expensive as a western equivalent.

    As they expand production costs will come down and it will become cheaper, and as any bugs found are worked out it will also become better.

    Export models will likely be very expensive when they are allowed.

    They don't call it the (B)leading edge for nothing.
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    Post  Sujoy Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:51 am

    Eventually the cost of the S 400 system will depend on the configuration of the missiles . My back of the envelope calculation for the 3 different missiles in the S 400 system are as follows :

    Range Missile Cost per Missile(US $ million)
    120 km 9M96 1.5 - 1.8
    250 km 48N6 2.7 - 3.0
    400 km 40N6 4.8 - 5.0
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    Post  GarryB Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:06 am

    Need to keep in mind that the restrictions on missile exports includes SAMs so nothing with a range of more than 300km or a payload of 500kgs or more can be exported...
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    Post  SOC Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:58 am

    GarryB wrote:Need to keep in mind that the restrictions on missile exports includes SAMs so nothing with a range of more than 300km or a payload of 500kgs or more can be exported...

    I'm not sure the MTCR includes SAM systems. I know that heavy SAMs (i.e. anything not a MANPADS) are not covered by the UN arms register, which is why Medvedev should've sent S-300PMU-1s into Iran and told Israel and Washington to sit and swivel.
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    Post  George1 Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:12 am

    S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1 - Page 19 17541310
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    Post  Arrow Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:45 am

    So the S 400 system has a max range only 250 km.
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    Post  Sujoy Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:53 am

    Arrow wrote:So the S 400 system has a max range only 250 km.

    The picture/s in the post above is that of the export version . Notice the 400kms range 40N6 missile is not included.
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    Post  Viktor Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:03 pm

    Sujoy, S-400 wont be exported for another 5 years possible more.

    Nice movie about S-400 from Almaz-Antej

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    Post  Arrow Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:09 pm

    The regiment S-400 near Moscow use 91N6E radar ?
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    Post  Sujoy Thu Aug 30, 2012 10:01 pm

    Arrow wrote:The regiment S-400 near Moscow use 91N6E radar ?

    AFAIK it does have the 91N6E radar just like it has the 96L6E radar and the 92N2E radar .

    The 96L6E is early warning and primary acquisition system. The 96L6 is therefore the all altitude battery acquisition radar, carried by a 8 x 8 MZKT-7930 vehicle.

    Just like the 92N2E Grave Stone which is basically an evolution of the 30N6E2 (carried by a new 8 x 8 MZKT-7930 vehicle) the 3D phased array acquisition array radar 91N6E is an evolution of the 64N6E2.

    Therefore, the 91N6E radar basically complements the 92N2E radar by providing higher power-aperture performance needed, in additional to an improved exciter and automatic frequency hopping capability.
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    Post  SOC Thu Aug 30, 2012 10:04 pm

    Arrow wrote:So the S 400 system has a max range only 250 km.

    With the 48N6DM, yes; note that the bottom of the graphic says "some of the missiles"; and they're also only giving export versions anyway.

    Arrow wrote:The regiment S-400 near Moscow use 91N6E radar ?


    No, it uses the native 91N6! They've also got 96L6 radars mounted on 40V6 masts at each of the four launch sites around Moscow.
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    Post  TR1 Thu Aug 30, 2012 10:31 pm

    SOC wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Need to keep in mind that the restrictions on missile exports includes SAMs so nothing with a range of more than 300km or a payload of 500kgs or more can be exported...

    I'm not sure the MTCR includes SAM systems. I know that heavy SAMs (i.e. anything not a MANPADS) are not covered by the UN arms register, which is why Medvedev should've sent S-300PMU-1s into Iran and told Israel and Washington to sit and swivel.

    You unpatriotic American you!
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    Post  GarryB Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:37 am

    You unpatriotic American you!

    I would say the exact opposite... he is one of the few American patriots.

    Most of the rest are happy to do as they are told and think what they are told to think and be led around by the nose by Israel and Washington.
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    Post  Viktor Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:04 pm

    Launch of 9M96 missiles and later 48N6DM.

    This is a first time I sow launching 9M96 missiles and dont know if any of you guys have but sure is spectacular in a way that reminds

    me much on how TOR-M1 missiles are launched.

    Anyway enjoj.

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    Post  GarryB Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:28 am

    What it looks like when things go wrong:

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a17_1349608780

    Had a long chat a while ago on KeyPub forum with someone that claimed that the vertical launch system on the Kirov was an enormous fire hazard because if a missile was catapulted into the air and its main engine didn't fire it would fall back to the deck and explode and set off all the missiles still on the ship.

    This is evidence that such a failure can happen, though the consequences are less dramatic than previously assumed.
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    Post  Austin Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:32 am

    Issues can also happend with hot launch missile if there are microsoic cracks on body or solid fuel itself leaks out then the missile would explode as soon as it gets ignited.

    I feel a cold launch is much safer and reliable.
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    Post  medo Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:39 pm

    Austin wrote:Issues can also happend with hot launch missile if there are microsoic cracks on body or solid fuel itself leaks out then the missile would explode as soon as it gets ignited.

    I feel a cold launch is much safer and reliable.

    Agree. It is also important, that warhead is not armed before the main rocket engine start working. In that case missile just fall, but not explode.
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    Post  GarryB Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:03 am

    Which was the thing the person I was disagreeing with on the Key pub forum didn't get.

    The explosive warhead in a missile like S-300 is called High Explosive. It is not called High Explosive because it is powerful, or because it smokes dope. It is called High Explosive because it needs a detonation or low explosive to set it off. Black powder is a low explosive, not because it is weak, but because it is easy to set off... nitroglycerine is so sensitive that a bump can set it off so it is usually mixed with stabilisers to make it less sensitive so it is safer to use.

    In fact FAB-5000s tested in Afghanistan were reportedly not fully exploding because they only had about 3-4 detonators in them. The very idea that a missile or bomb of any sort with HE could somehow explode if dropped is basically silly the fuses will not be armed till the missile gets close to its target, and if they are not armed then the detonator will no work... that is the point.

    Even if there is an intense fire the HE will just burn.

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