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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

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    Post  Cowboy's daughter Sat May 23, 2015 8:56 pm

    max steel wrote:
    gregoire wrote:



    Did anyone see this?

    Crazy psyops to bait russia or novorossiya. Clearly school of americas.




    skin them alive. attack





    If this is not a fake and if cutting off fingers isn't, then it's getting nasty. Sad
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    Post  Monarchist Sat May 23, 2015 8:58 pm

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #14 - Page 12 11208611


    Last edited by Monarchist on Sat May 23, 2015 8:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  sepheronx Sat May 23, 2015 8:59 pm

    Khepesh wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:
    Khepesh wrote:
    Karl Haushofer wrote:
    Khepesh wrote:Severe shock at murder of Alexei Mozgovoi, a real man. Read again what Mozgovoi wrote about the "system" and the threat he received on 6 May not to hold parade on Victory Day in Alchevsk. He was given two choices if he held a parade, arrest or destruction. Now he is dead, and while he did not say directly who the threat was from, it is clear it could only have come from Plotnitsky. Pavel Dremov will be next, then there are no men left in command positions in LNR, only actors and rats.
    https://vk.com/id265927036?w=wall265927036_88938

    So it was an internal power struggle then? Not any better than Kiev killing him though. Novorossiyan project could be going better.
    Not a power struggle as people know were the power is and will not fight it. IMO, Plotnitsky should be removed immediately and a "small" Novorossiya created in fact, not just name, between LNR and DNR and a proper combined army formed. But this will not happen, even tho it is the obvious thing to do. Arguments about that could last hours, days.....

    Has more to do with.....what exactly though?  I agree, they should be formed together to create a unity and a united military formation, which would be far more potent.  But it is more to do with someone like Plotnitsky wanting to keep his power, right?  But what could he gain from snuffing off Mozgovoi?  I mean, Mozgovoi was protecting them more than anything.
    Mostly to do with Plotnitsky holding power, but not entirely as there is also the issue of why there is no Novorossiya, why no single leader, no single army. Yet in war this is a divisive question and personally I avoid it in public. However, there is a firestorm going on and calls for Plotnitsky to be shot, and the press conference by LNR prosecutor Gorenko is being treated with a lot of skepticism, even derision. True he looked shocked, but also rather shifty and uncomforatable. Easy to blame Plotnitsky, but I think it is not so clear and that there are too many other factors for a clear answer. Perhaps a behind the scenes arrangement by a certain group who have ties that cross battle lines and country borders, I don't know....

    Who knows but this is definitely not a good sign for Lugansk. Even if Mozgovoi can be replaced by someone else (always the case, a leader of squad or units are always replaced), he will be missed and a person of high respect gone could create moral issues. Now mind you, someone even more harsher could come in as replacement. At same time, Lugansk cannot have such issues in their territory as it could create a mess internally, and or give Kiev the ability to take advantage of such a situation. They need to strengthen their border lines, continue with infiltration and continue building up defenses. But most importantly, they need to unite with Donetsk and create a proper economy.
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    Post  Khepesh Sat May 23, 2015 9:00 pm

    Dmitry Steshin is saying that the death of Mozgovoi is not an accident, and while not trying to put words in his mouth, he means that this is not simply some ukrops DRG attack that got lucky....
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    Post  KoTeMoRe Sat May 23, 2015 9:01 pm

    We know who had all interest to kill Mozgovoi. The same guys whose biz isn't being tackled at all. The Oligarchs, the guys that came after NW and who are propping Zakharchenko and Ploplo. What irates me is that there is no clear "no go" line from Moscow. Killing Bednov was brutal, but Bednov was a bit shady. But killing Mozgovoi, the guy was Robin Hood material. This is a grave moral crisis and will haunt men for a while. NVRS is doing what even Porkoshenko doesn't. It's allowing a mafia war and sapping the people's will with such abominations. In the fvcking middle of a war.

    Shame. So long hero.
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    Post  etaepsilonk Sat May 23, 2015 9:03 pm

    Looks like heroes of the russian world will soon wipe themselves out Smile
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    Post  Cowboy's daughter Sat May 23, 2015 9:03 pm

    3-year entry ban imposed in Ukraine against me without cause.

    RT Germany journalist

    https://twitter.com/anna_schalimowa/status/601767440381562880
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    Post  Flagship Victory Sat May 23, 2015 9:05 pm

    Is there any word from Putin about this? This is serious stuff. Mozgovoi was the founder of Ghost, one of the biggest units of NAF.
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    Post  KoTeMoRe Sat May 23, 2015 9:06 pm

    etaepsilonk wrote:Looks like heroes of the russian world will soon wipe themselves out Smile

    There are no more Ukrop Cybopidors remaining, so...
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    Post  sepheronx Sat May 23, 2015 9:06 pm

    etaepsilonk wrote:Looks like heroes of the russian world will soon wipe themselves out Smile

    Why are you still here? If you hate Russian's so much.

    Not really a good thing that Mafia type rule in Lugansk killing their own.
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    Post  KoTeMoRe Sat May 23, 2015 9:08 pm

    sepheronx wrote:
    etaepsilonk wrote:Looks like heroes of the russian world will soon wipe themselves out Smile

    Why are you still here?  If you hate Russian's so much.

    Not really a good thing that Mafia type rule in Lugansk killing their own.

    They didn't kill him. They let him get killed. Chechnya redux.
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    Post  PapaDragon Sat May 23, 2015 9:09 pm

    max steel wrote:  EU signs new €1.8bn bailout for Ukraine  


    http://on.rt.com/unapc1
    ..........................

    This and US money will keep clown-house called the Ukraine in business for another year.

    It will also keep population of the Ukraine slightly above starvation line for almost as long. If they find this Somalia-type of existence enjoyable then they are welcome to make themselves comfortable. I will grab popcorn...

    Novorossia will always have more to eat, more to spend and option of working and/or moving to Russia should they choose to do so.

    Loss of life is unfortunate but as I already said dozens of times, this is war.  

    In the meantime the very concept of the "Ukraine" is rapidly becoming dead word on paper. While with every passing day of this s*tstorm  Russia gains money (and unity) while EU loses money (and unity). And money wins all wars.  Twisted Evil

    Can't defy laws of mathematics...  russia


    Last edited by PapaDragon on Sat May 23, 2015 9:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  Cowboy's daughter Sat May 23, 2015 9:11 pm

    John Herbst—US Ambassador to Ukraine 2003-2006 “In Ukraine there are very serious problems with corruption. Frankly, the top members of your élite are very corrupt—that is the people right at the top. I will not name names, but on the list of corrupt officials are those persons who are able to speak very prettily the “language of reform” with the West. It is easy for them to move from one party to another, sometimes switching between several parties, and one way or another remain unaffected and do well for themselves. And if you are comfortable working as a minister, imagine how ‘comfortable’ you might be at the top. These people are a problem, and at the same time they are the leadership of your country.” ————————————————————————— Speaking at a Kyiv School of Economics symposium on April 25, former U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine, John Herbst, accused the top leadership of Ukraine of abuse of office. “They say all the right things, but they prospered under the old régime and the old rules were convenient for them when they were ministers. Imagine how good the rules are for you when you are above that level. In that situation you can’t expect good progress. Currently we again see a movement of assets up to the vertex of power.” wrote:


    https://vk.com/wall253255659_23
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    Post  sepheronx Sat May 23, 2015 9:11 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:
    etaepsilonk wrote:Looks like heroes of the russian world will soon wipe themselves out Smile

    Why are you still here?  If you hate Russian's so much.

    Not really a good thing that Mafia type rule in Lugansk killing their own.

    They didn't kill him. They let him get killed. Chechnya redux.

    How do we know that they let him get killed rather than their own men killing him? Cause they knew where he was, and if he has powerful people in Lugansk (oligarches) that are wanting him dead, they can hire their own. Rather than risking Ukrainian troops to kill him and his crew, and then attempting further operations in Lugansk. Because we all know that Lugansk is also enemy to Kiev and Rada.
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    Post  Monarchist Sat May 23, 2015 9:13 pm

    Flagship Victory wrote:Is there any word from Putin about this? This is serious stuff. Mozgovoi was the founder of Ghost, one of the biggest units of NAF.
    If you want to know the truth and reality about those that rule Russia, Putin etc. you should read and hear what former GRU colonel Kvachkov has to say.
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    Post  sepheronx Sat May 23, 2015 9:16 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    max steel wrote:  EU signs new €1.8bn bailout for Ukraine  


    http://on.rt.com/unapc1
    ..........................

    This and US money will keep clown-house called the Ukraine in business for another year.

    It will also keep population of the Ukraine slightly above starvation line for almost as long. If they find this Somalia-type of existence enjoyable then they are welcome to make themselves comfortable. I will grab popcorn...

    Novorossia will always have more to eat, more to spend and option of working and/or moving to Russia should they choose to do so.

    Loss of life is unfortunate but as I already said dozens of times, this is war.  

    In the meantime the very concept of the "Ukraine" is rapidly becoming dead word on paper. While with every passing of this s*tstorm  Russia gains money (and unity) while EU loses money (and unity). And money wins all wars.  Twisted Evil

    Can't defy laws of mathematics...  russia

    What some don't realise is that this $1.3B Euro's is nothing.  It isn't even worth as much as it used to be as the Euro has slid considerably, may be worth only $1.4B USD.

    http://fortruss.blogspot.ca/2015/05/a-few-thoughts-about-tomorrow.html

    Let’s start with a few numbers. Ukraine’s debt as of April 1, 2015 (no data available for May yet) is officially $65 billion, including $42.6 billion of foreign and $22.4 internal debt. Gold and currency reserves as of May 1 are officially $9.6 billion (in reality it’s less than that but we’ll let that stand). In June, the government must pay IMF about $5 billion on its current obligations. As a reminder, IMF has categorically refused to restructure or write off those debts. Moreover, Ukraine’s reserves will also shrink during May. Therefore Ukraine will have only about $4 billion left (plus minus the statistical error).

    This $1.3B Euro's will not even cover the debt that they owe.  Actually, it will just up the amount of foreign debt if this money is being given as a loan more so than just free money (cause that will piss off many in Europe).  $1.3B EUR will barely cover all the payments needed for social benefits, providing work, and paying gas.  And this is where I think a lot of this money will end up going to - to pay Gazprom in order to keep gas flowing for the next month or two, mixed in with paying some really pissed off people, off, in order to keep them content for the next month or so.

    That is about it.

    Monarchist wrote:
    Flagship Victory wrote:Is there any word from Putin about this? This is serious stuff. Mozgovoi was the founder of Ghost, one of the biggest units of NAF.
    If you want to know the truth and reality about those that rule Russia, Putin etc. you should read and hear what former GRU colonel Kvachkov has to say.

    Why don't you just post it then?
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    Post  PapaDragon Sat May 23, 2015 9:17 pm

    sepheronx wrote:..................................................

    Who knows but this is definitely not a good sign for Lugansk.  Even if Mozgovoi can be replaced by someone else (always the case, a leader of squad or units are always replaced), he will be missed and a person of high respect gone could create moral issues.  Now mind you, someone even more harsher could come in as replacement.  At same time, Lugansk cannot have such issues in their territory as it could create a mess internally, and or give Kiev the ability to take advantage of such a situation.  They need to strengthen their border lines, continue with infiltration and continue building up defenses.  But most importantly, they need to unite with Donetsk and create a proper economy.

    Humans are expendable and replaceable, and like you said, with someone harsher (as in someone who will be more "proactive" with enforcing his point of view). While from now on Mozgovoi will be a symbol and folk-hero.

    If locals had him killed then they also managed to sign their own death certificates. This was pre-internet move that does not fly in era of internet.

    BS like this does not stay hidden in this day and age.

    Remember Nemtzov case? Those that "pulled" that off also thought that they are very smart and elegant - and then they realized that they weren't. lol1
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    Post  KoTeMoRe Sat May 23, 2015 9:20 pm

    sepheronx wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:
    etaepsilonk wrote:Looks like heroes of the russian world will soon wipe themselves out Smile

    Why are you still here?  If you hate Russian's so much.

    Not really a good thing that Mafia type rule in Lugansk killing their own.

    They didn't kill him. They let him get killed. Chechnya redux.

    How do we know that they let him get killed rather than their own men killing him?  Cause they knew where he was, and if he has powerful people in Lugansk (oligarches) that are wanting him dead, they can hire their own.  Rather than risking Ukrainian troops to kill him and his crew, and then attempting further operations in Lugansk.  Because we all know that Lugansk is also enemy to Kiev and Rada.

    Because it's easier to glorify him and shed crocodile tears. Helps also the war party continuating its magic. Sacrificial lamb etc. Plus with Ukrops doeing the job, this gives a little peremoga to Ukropistanis and makes them ready for the probabaly asswhopping they're going to receive.

    It sounds conspirational, but this is my firm opinion.
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    Post  sepheronx Sat May 23, 2015 9:20 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:..................................................

    Who knows but this is definitely not a good sign for Lugansk.  Even if Mozgovoi can be replaced by someone else (always the case, a leader of squad or units are always replaced), he will be missed and a person of high respect gone could create moral issues.  Now mind you, someone even more harsher could come in as replacement.  At same time, Lugansk cannot have such issues in their territory as it could create a mess internally, and or give Kiev the ability to take advantage of such a situation.  They need to strengthen their border lines, continue with infiltration and continue building up defenses.  But most importantly, they need to unite with Donetsk and create a proper economy.

    Humans are expendable and replaceable, and like you said, with someone harsher (as in someone who will be more "proactive" with enforcing his point of view). While from now on Mozgovoi will be a symbol and folk-hero.

    If locals had him killed then they also managed to sign their own death certificates. This was pre-internet move that does not fly in era of internet.

    BS like this does not stay hidden in this day and age.

    Remember Nemtzov case? Those that "pulled" that off also thought that they are very smart  and elegant - and then they realized that they weren't. lol1      

    Possibly so, but you are telling me that there are those in Lugansk, Novorussia, that are sided with Kiev or talking with Kiev?  That they would be willing to risk that they communicated with Kiev Junta forces to have one of their own killed?  I think that would be even worst than if they killed him off themselves, as they could make any excuse.

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:
    etaepsilonk wrote:Looks like heroes of the russian world will soon wipe themselves out Smile

    Why are you still here?  If you hate Russian's so much.

    Not really a good thing that Mafia type rule in Lugansk killing their own.

    They didn't kill him. They let him get killed. Chechnya redux.

    How do we know that they let him get killed rather than their own men killing him?  Cause they knew where he was, and if he has powerful people in Lugansk (oligarches) that are wanting him dead, they can hire their own.  Rather than risking Ukrainian troops to kill him and his crew, and then attempting further operations in Lugansk.  Because we all know that Lugansk is also enemy to Kiev and Rada.

    Because it's easier to glorify him and shed crocodile tears. Helps also the war party continuating its magic. Sacrificial lamb etc. Plus with Ukrops doeing the job, this gives a little peremoga to Ukropistanis and makes them ready for the probabaly asswhopping they're going to receive.

    It sounds conspirational, but this is my firm opinion.

    So what you are saying is that this could be considered as an attempt by certain people in Lugansk to kick off a conflict with Kiev or to give excuses for more, harder troops at border areas and to push up for more funding for troops?
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    Post  Cowboy's daughter Sat May 23, 2015 9:24 pm

    International Volunteers Arrive in Eastern Ukraine


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    Post  Cowboy's daughter Sat May 23, 2015 9:26 pm

    Conflict News ‏at rConflictNews May 20

    Conflict News retweeted донецкий укроп

    Residents of Mariupol in eastern Ukraine are reporting that there is no power in city since 9:30PM local time.
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    Post  sepheronx Sat May 23, 2015 9:29 pm

    Cowboy's daughter wrote:International Volunteers Arrive in Eastern Ukraine



    Lugansk....

    So people flying in from around the world to fight for Novorussia, are going to Lugansk eh? Hmm. Well, more manpower is good but if the rumors are true about mafia rule and what not, I think they are far better off in Donetsk.
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    Post  PapaDragon Sat May 23, 2015 9:32 pm

    sepheronx wrote:...................................

    Possibly so, but you are telling me that there are those in Lugansk, Novorussia, that are sided with Kiev or talking with Kiev?  That they would be willing to risk that they communicated with Kiev Junta forces to have one of their own killed?  I think that would be even worst than if they killed him off themselves, as they could make any excuse.

    Don't know much about local issues in Lugansk but rules are same everywhere: if some local idiot was either working with Kiev or had personal beef with Mozgovoi or was doing his own thing, it does not matter, they will not be able to cover themselves from backlash especially if their BS affected overall game plan (which I guess it most certainly did in this case).

    Remember Batman (Bednov)?  He also had a habit of doing his own thing (in opposite direction, in his case) until his BS started seriously affecting coordinated war effort (just before big ops in Debaltsevo).

    And then some very tacticool dudes showed up and, boom, no more Batman.
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    Post  sepheronx Sat May 23, 2015 9:34 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:...................................

    Possibly so, but you are telling me that there are those in Lugansk, Novorussia, that are sided with Kiev or talking with Kiev?  That they would be willing to risk that they communicated with Kiev Junta forces to have one of their own killed?  I think that would be even worst than if they killed him off themselves, as they could make any excuse.

    Don't know much about local issues in Lugansk but rules are same everywhere: if some local idiot was either working with Kiev or had personal beef with Mozgovoi or was doing his own thing, it does not matter, they will not be able to cover themselves from backlash especially if their BS affected overall game plan (which I guess it most certainly did in this case).

    Remember Batman (Bednov)?  He also had a habit of doing his own thing (in opposite direction, in his case) until his BS started seriously affecting coordinated war effort (just before big ops in Debaltsevo).

    And then some very tacticool dudes showed up and, boom, no more Batman.

    So who do you think snuffed off Bednov? Same guys who snuffed off Mozgovoi?

    Why wouldn't the Lugansk people want to hold a parade in Lugansk for victory day? Turnout was huge!
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    Post  PapaDragon Sat May 23, 2015 9:40 pm

    sepheronx wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:...................................

    Possibly so, but you are telling me that there are those in Lugansk, Novorussia, that are sided with Kiev or talking with Kiev?  That they would be willing to risk that they communicated with Kiev Junta forces to have one of their own killed?  I think that would be even worst than if they killed him off themselves, as they could make any excuse.

    Don't know much about local issues in Lugansk but rules are same everywhere: if some local idiot was either working with Kiev or had personal beef with Mozgovoi or was doing his own thing, it does not matter, they will not be able to cover themselves from backlash especially if their BS affected overall game plan (which I guess it most certainly did in this case).

    Remember Batman (Bednov)?  He also had a habit of doing his own thing (in opposite direction, in his case) until his BS started seriously affecting coordinated war effort (just before big ops in Debaltsevo).

    And then some very tacticool dudes showed up and, boom, no more Batman.

    So who do you think snuffed off Bednov? Same guys who snuffed off Mozgovoi?

    Why wouldn't the Lugansk people want to hold a parade in Lugansk for victory day?  Turnout was huge!

    I don't know, like I said, I am not too familiar with local issues in Lugansk. But if it was locals that did this, odds are good they will be joining him before too long.

    ----------------------------------------------

    In the meantime Ukraine moves toward the bright European future lol1


    No Money for Bribes? Kiev Police Now Accept Vodka


    Meet the new Ukraine, same as the old Ukraine


    http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/no-money-bribes-kiev-police-now-accept-vodka/ri7158


    Bribing police isn’t a phenomenon unique to Ukraine — a similar custom can be found here in Russia. But this is the first time we’ve seen video footage of an unlucky motorist using vodka as a bargaining chip. Sure, why not? Probably more valuable than hryvnias…




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