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    PAK-FA, T-50: News #3

    mack8
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    Post  mack8 Sun Jan 03, 2016 9:27 pm

    Very nice photo update, thanks Berkut.
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    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt Mon Jan 04, 2016 8:58 am

    +1, Berkut.
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    Post  George1 Mon Jan 04, 2016 10:11 am

    will we have the 6th prototype in 2016?
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    Post  max steel Mon Jan 04, 2016 10:23 am

    What is the difference between T-50 1,2,3,4 & 5R ?
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    Post  Berkut Mon Jan 04, 2016 3:03 pm

    George1 wrote:will we have the 6th prototype in 2016?

    See this; https://www.russiadefence.net/t3924p510-pak-fa-t-50-news-2#142437

    max steel wrote:What is the difference between T-50 1,2,3,4 & 5R ?

    There are many many high res pictures of atleast all the first 4 frames so it should be very easy to do comparison and "spot 10 differences", externally anyway. I dont wish to do work you can do just fine yourself, if you have a more specific question i can answer but this one you should be able to do 90% of yourself.
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    Post  mack8 Wed Jan 06, 2016 8:40 pm

    Cool
    PAK-FA, T-50: News #3 - Page 24 181211
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    Post  PapaDragon Wed Jan 06, 2016 9:05 pm


    I know many will disagree but i love that paintjob!!! thumbsup
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    Post  Vann7 Wed Jan 13, 2016 5:56 pm

    Looking good. +1

    Finally Russia paying attention to the look of things ,the image of quality that their airforce should always project. Does anyone knows how many Pak-fa the Russian Airforce told ,or defense minister that are aiming to get in total? (and include the link with the info about what was told) not only 2020..but beyond that?
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    Post  franco Wed Jan 13, 2016 8:09 pm

    Vann7 wrote:Looking good. +1

    Finally Russia paying attention to the look of things ,the image of quality that their airforce should always project. Does anyone knows how many Pak-fa the Russian Airforce told ,or defense minister that are aiming to get in total? (and include the link with the info about what was told) not only 2020..but beyond that?

    Google is your friend...

    No links but 55 or 12 depending on who is talking by 2020 and 150 rumored for total build.
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    Post  sepheronx Wed Jan 13, 2016 8:14 pm

    I thought total build was 250?
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    Post  franco Wed Jan 13, 2016 8:54 pm

    sepheronx wrote:I thought total build was 250?

    Would be nice but 150 is what I heard. Maybe 250 included India?
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    Post  sepheronx Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:15 pm

    franco wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:I thought total build was 250?

    Would be nice but 150 is what I heard. Maybe 250 included India?
    No.  But I recall reading that they wanted total 250 aircraft for Ruaf.  But that isnt achievable right now or near future.  There needs to be an alternative.  Russia cant really afford all these types of aircrafts and still ha e a formidable force.  Either they get rid of Su-35 and Su-30 and Su-27 and such for Pak Fa or they will end up spending a fortune on maintenance.
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    Post  GarryB Thu Jan 14, 2016 10:09 am

    New planes are much lower maintainence than older planes.

    Just look at newer operating systems that can recover from problems and can sort out many problems itself... ie do its own diagnostics and based on the results make changes to solve problems.

    The Flanker family share a lot of components including engines which makes maintainence and support cheaper and easier.

    They might get 250 PAK FA but not before 2025 or later...
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    Post  OminousSpudd Thu Jan 14, 2016 10:26 am

    As I have stated elsewhere, there really is no rush for PAK-FA, as nice as it is. Su-35S and Su-30SM are keeping it covered in today's world and tomorrow's, especially with the US and co.'s F-35 on the horizon.
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    Post  Firebird Thu Jan 14, 2016 1:27 pm

    Does anyone know how much commonality of parts there will be in future Pak-Fas and all the other striek/fighter/interceptors etc?

    I mean 250 isn't a lot of planes and India seems to be dithering abit.

    Will Russia be able to use the Pak-fa as the basis for all its fleet? Thereby reducing costs and creating efficiences. Obviously not everything needs to be stealth. But perhaps engines, modified fuselages etc can be shared across different models of plane? Which planes could have commonality of parts?
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    Post  Guest Thu Jan 14, 2016 1:32 pm

    sepheronx wrote:
    franco wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:I thought total build was 250?

    Would be nice but 150 is what I heard. Maybe 250 included India?
    No.  But I recall reading that they wanted total 250 aircraft for Ruaf.  But that isnt achievable right now or near future.  There needs to be an alternative.  Russia cant really afford all these types of aircrafts and still ha e a formidable force.  Either they get rid of Su-35 and Su-30 and Su-27 and such for Pak Fa or they will end up spending a fortune on maintenance.

    I belive original estimates were 200 for Russia and 600 for international market were placed some years ago. This 600 includes India. PAK FA is still based on T10 platform, maintenance will be most likely alot look-alike to SU30/35/34 so prices at least in terms of manpower wont be very expencive, i belive also quite alot of mechanical parts are very similar or at least share components so production prices shouldnt skyrocket either. However i dont see much space for MiG29M/SMT/35 or whatever they are upto calling new variant now. Except for carrier airgroup i belive MiG is kinda dead...
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    Post  Sunbeam Fri Jan 15, 2016 1:48 am

    Militarov wrote: Except for carrier airgroup i belive MiG is kinda dead...
    Don't they working on new interceptors?
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    Post  Guest Fri Jan 15, 2016 1:57 am

    Sunbeam wrote:
    Militarov wrote: Except for carrier airgroup i belive MiG is kinda dead...
    Don't they working on new interceptors?

    Well i was refering here directly to MiG29 family aka MiG29SMT, M2 and 35. But yes, they are apparently working on future interceptor and light 5th gen multirole fighter which all seems will share high resemblance with MiG35.
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    Post  Berkut Fri Jan 15, 2016 2:26 pm

    "Working on it". PAK-DP is completely funded by MiG themselves and consists of napkin drawings at the very best since MoD isnt funding it or has set technical requirements. LMFS is also as far as i know unfunded although that has been in fluctuating around.
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    Post  GarryB Sat Jan 16, 2016 5:07 am

    The avionics in the Su-35 used by the Russian AF can be considered first generation PAK FA avionics and systems.

    In that sense the equipment developed for the PAK FA can be transfered to the Su-35 as it is developed as upgrades.

    Regarding comments about the need for PAK FA... they never made any promises they were making thousands of them to replace their entire fleet. I rather suspect they would not want such a fleet even if they could afford it... you don't win a game of chess by having only one piece type... each piece has strengths and weaknesses so just having bishops or rooks does not make sense.

    PAK FAs wont replace Su-35s and MiG-35s... they compliment each other. On their own each individually has weaknesses and strengths... cost, cost, reduced size, respectively... the PAK FA could probably do the job anywhere in Russia, but there are places where the MiG will do the same job much easier. There are places where the Flanker is good enough and the MiG might not be enough. A mixed fleet also means you can be sneaky... there are MiGs and Flankers there... but are there any PAK FAs there?
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    Post  sepheronx Sat Jan 16, 2016 5:19 am

    Berkut wrote:"Working on it". PAK-DP is completely funded by MiG themselves and consists of napkin drawings at the very best since MoD isnt funding it or has set technical requirements. LMFS is also as far as i know unfunded although that has been in fluctuating around.

    LMFS is also completed funded by MiG. My understanding is that the new interceptor is being asked for by the MoD though.
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    Post  Guest Sat Jan 16, 2016 5:25 am

    sepheronx wrote:
    Berkut wrote:"Working on it". PAK-DP is completely funded by MiG themselves and consists of napkin drawings at the very best since MoD isnt funding it or has set technical requirements. LMFS is also as far as i know unfunded although that has been in fluctuating around.

    LMFS is also completed funded by MiG.  My understanding is that the new interceptor is being asked for by the MoD though.

    "[MiG-31] went out of production some time ago, although the functions assigned to the MiG-31 will still be required. We need a new aircraft to deal with these problems—which have, in fact, grown—based on new principles and new materials. And we understand what kind of airplane it will be: work is already underway to determine the aircraft’s design," Russian Aircraft Corporation MiG’s Chief Executive Officer Sergei Korotkov told Russian Vedomosti newspaper, according to Sputnik News.

    Sort of, not sure tho if any money was actually dislocated for that project or they told MiG: "Give us something we might give you money".
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    Post  sepheronx Sat Jan 16, 2016 5:33 am

    might be ideal if they get the companies to compete as it may give Russian MoD a better deal + sukhoi may come up with something better.

    Although, Mikoyan hopefully gets some deals as they need it.
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    Post  Guest Sat Jan 16, 2016 5:35 am

    sepheronx wrote:might be ideal if they get the companies to compete as it may give Russian MoD a better deal + sukhoi may come up with something better.

    Although, Mikoyan hopefully gets some deals as they need it.

    Thing is that Mikoyan is in deep s.hit, even this Russian MiG29SMT order was to help them keep afloat, except those MiG29Ks they havent got decent order in....decades. Unless they soon get some good solid money for project or good amount of orders they might disappear O.o
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    Post  sepheronx Sat Jan 16, 2016 5:43 am

    Militarov wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:might be ideal if they get the companies to compete as it may give Russian MoD a better deal + sukhoi may come up with something better.

    Although, Mikoyan hopefully gets some deals as they need it.

    Thing is that Mikoyan is in deep s.hit, even this Russian MiG29SMT order was to help them keep afloat, except those MiG29Ks they havent got decent order in....decades. Unless they soon get some good solid money for project or good amount of orders they might disappear O.o

    I thought the sale of the MiG-29K's and those SMT upgrades and UPG made them a lot financially more stable than before?

    I bet they will save Mikoyan by ordering the MiG-35's and give further upgrade orders. They wont let Mikoyan stop existing since it is quite important.

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