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    Crimea's integration into Russian Federation:

    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:14 am


    Or just build more water reservoirs

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:45 pm

    Crimea is an arid region but anyway you can not have a city like Sevastopol depend on just rain water.

    No, but you can make sure rain water is collected and used and that water is not wasted.

    Putin already said that desalination is expensive and will affect negatively water bills of the citizens in Crimea.

    It would be unreasonable to expect others to pay for it.

    Here in New Zealand most places water is not a problem because we are not in an arid region, but places like Auckland which has 2 million people struggles with water supply... they take water from the nearby Waikato river, but there are water charges... water going in to a house and water coming out of the drains and sewers is charged... so rain off your roof goes on the garden or is stored in large tanks for use for cleaning or baths, you might use a water purifier for drinking water.

    Charging for the use of water will immediately stop a lot of people wasting water, and those that continue can pay for it.

    Water charges can pay for any water system needed, as long as the money does not get diverted elsewhere.

    Sad part is both tourism and agriculture which are region´s main economic activities will be hugely affected by this water shortages.

    Both of which are industries that can pay for water schemes to get the problems sorted.

    I doubt one solution would work... a few different solutions would be better...

    Only solution is opening of the NCC but I dont see this feasable.

    Well perhaps telling Kiev if the NCC does not start supplying water to Crimea any time soon then the renewal of the gas contracts for gas transit through the Ukraine will be reconsidered.

    I would continue with alternatives too and if the NCC is reopened would carefully check for impurities and contamination.
    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:41 pm

    Is it not possible to build a pipeline attached directly to either one of the Kerch bridges? Maybe underneath or to the sides via an overhang.
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    Post  Big_Gazza Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:31 pm

    If the Banderites start any stupid shit with either Donbass or Crimea I think it would not be surprising if the Russian military elects to test an Iskander or three on the peninsula, and the improvised dam on the NCC might suddenly come apart at the seams as a consequence.  What a shame that would be.  Oh the horror...  Twisted Evil

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    franco
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    Post  franco Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:05 pm

    lyle6 wrote:Is it not possible to build a pipeline attached directly to either one of the Kerch bridges? Maybe underneath or to the sides via an overhang.


    Apparently there is no water to spare on the other side of the bridge.
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:16 pm

    franco wrote:
    lyle6 wrote:Is it not possible to build a pipeline attached directly to either one of the Kerch bridges? Maybe underneath or to the sides via an overhang.
     

    Apparently there is no water to spare on the other side of the bridge.

    That is not a serious constraint. Russia can build a water pipeline that can tap the necessary sources. But that requires money.

    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:08 am

    Doesn't the Kuban river drain into the Azov just a few km east of the Kerch strait? That should be plenty freshwater enough for one huge pipeline.

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    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:18 am

    Apparently Russia has closed the Kerch strait for a week and left Mariupol and Berdyansk cut off... not necessarily related to Ukraine closing the water supply to Crimea, but a good example of the measures that can be taken to teach the Nazis some manners...

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    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:03 am

    LMFS wrote:Apparently Russia has closed the Kerch strait for a week and left Mariupol and Berdyansk cut off... not necessarily related to Ukraine closing the water supply to Crimea, but a good example of the measures that can be taken to teach the Nazis some manners...

    You know how sometimes weeks turn into months and months turn into... You know how it goes...    pwnd

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    franco
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    Post  franco Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:54 am

    lyle6 wrote:Doesn't the Kuban river drain into the Azov just a few km east of the Kerch strait? That should be plenty freshwater enough for one huge pipeline.

    Not sure, just reporting what I had read.
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    Post  mnztr Mon Apr 26, 2021 11:52 am

    I read there are large freshwater aqufiers below the sea of Azov and Russia is drilling wells. The sea itself has very low salinity.

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    mr_hd

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    Post  mr_hd Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:08 am

    Only viable long term solution is building couple of desalination plants, for which additional energy sources will be needed plus new technology, all this of course will be very expensive. It will take years if not decades before water crisis will be solved realistically.

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    mnztr

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    Post  mnztr Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:33 am

    I don't think they need to:

    https://112.international/conflict-in-eastern-ukraine/occupation-authorities-plan-to-get-fresh-water-in-crimea-from-water-well-holes-azov-sea-59869.html

    in any case desalination by reverse osmosis should be quite efficient as the sea of azov is about 1/3 the salinity of typical sea water.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:24 pm

    It is a growing region... an extra nuclear power station would probably be useful anyway going forward... a floating power station could be a short term solution too, but I suspect no one solution will solve the problems... the application of several solutions would be best... having excess electrical power and water supplies will allow more expansion and growth and is going to pay for itself quickly enough.

    Just like improved access via the new bridge and rail links have improved access and made it an easier to get to destination.

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    mnztr

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    Post  mnztr Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:33 pm

    Didn't they already run power cables to Crimea? *Edit* actually they ran 4 lines to Crimea.
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:57 pm

    Ukraine responds to data on the discovery by Russian scientists under the Sea of ​​Azov of fresh water that can solve the water problem of Crimea
    franco
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    Post  franco Wed May 05, 2021 4:54 pm

    Drilling preparation: Crimea will be provided with water from under the Sea of ​​Azov

    The Crimean peninsula has become even closer to solving the "water problem". According to the Deputy Prime Minister of the Russian Federation Marat Khusnullin, wells for the extraction of fresh water for the residents of Crimea will be drilled under the Sea of ​​Azov.

    Khusnullin informed that well drilling will begin in July, and preparatory work is currently underway. Now research in the region for finding fresh water deposits under the Sea of ​​Azov is conducted by two scientific vessels. Scientists must determine the volume of a possible underwater basin, as well as the likelihood of using these waters for domestic needs.

    We are exploring at full speed, we drilled on the spit, we found water, industrial water can definitely be - stressed the Deputy Prime Minister of the Russian Federation, quoted by TASS

    In recent years, the Crimean peninsula has suffered from water shortages caused by droughts. The reserves from under the Sea of ​​Azov will be able, according to the assumptions of experts, to become another source of water that is so necessary for the Crimeans. Deputy Prime Minister of Crimea Yevgeny Kabanov said that scientific research in the region is being conducted by one of the leading profile Russian companies.

    In September last year, it was announced that the construction of the first Russian seawater desalination plant in Crimea was started. In December, Marat Khusnullin noted that desalination should be the last resort for providing residents with fresh water, and attention should be paid to other sources.

    https://sr6k7fxsjdbtuibv3nxvimtoeu-ac4c6men2g7xr2a-topcor-ru.translate.goog/19783-podgotovka-burenija-krym-obespechat-vodoj-iz-pod-azovskogo-morja.html

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Wed May 05, 2021 8:08 pm

    Interesting, over time that should make the Sea of Azov deeper as the evacuation of the aquifer results in subsidence of the rock strata.
    Maybe not that much deeper, but not zero for sure.

    https://www.usgs.gov/special-topic/water-science-school/science/land-subsidence?qt-science_center_objects=0#qt-science_center_objects

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu May 06, 2021 9:20 am

    But would there be subsidence, or would drawing fresher water from underground allow more salt water from higher up to filter down... presumably that is how the water got there in the first place and in getting there was filtered and lost much of its salt.
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Thu May 06, 2021 10:52 am

    GarryB wrote:But would there be subsidence, or would drawing fresher water from underground allow more salt water from higher up to filter down... presumably that is how the water got there in the first place and in getting there was filtered and lost much of its salt.

    If it was salt water seeping from above it would never have become fresh. In this case the aquifer is a layer of porous "rock" that extends horizontally onto the mainland
    where it gets the fresh water injection. It really is isolated from the salt water above.

    There are other types of water bearing ground layers where a thick layer of clay acts like a barrier. I am not fully informed on the geology of the Sea of Azov. The "rock"
    may be 10,000 years old and formed from different types of silt deposits in this sea (which is just a bay of the Black Sea). But these deposits include enough fine grades
    that have started to turn into different types of shale.

    http://www.ssc-ras.ru/files/files/11_QI_2013.pdf

    The Sea of Azov has been backfilled with silt and clay deposits thanks to river transport for a very long time. This for sure has resulted in shale-like strata
    that are good at trapping natural gas or oil. They do a good job of trapping water as well. Silt and clay are not the only type of deposits and there are
    sand layers as well which give rise to sandstone. I think that at the relatively shallow depths that there are few gas and oil deposits but kerogen deposits
    instead which have not experienced the slow compression "cooking" into gas and oil. But the various layers of more and less porous rock precursors (both
    shale and sandstone) are there which can trap fresh water.

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    PhSt
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    Post  PhSt Fri May 21, 2021 7:41 pm

    So just because a few people in Crimea find their lives miserable the entire region is already being portrayed as an inhospitable wasteland  Laughing

    First of all, it is noticeable that the claims being made in the article are mostly from random people's opinions, so they can basically say whatever they want regardless of the truthfulness of their statements. Second, the author solely base information on Russia's supposed economic losses from people associated with the US Department of State! So obviously these so-called experts will exaggerate whatever information they have to push the narrative that makes things look bad for Russia  Rolling Eyes

    Perhaps we can ask the opinion of Auslander to clarify the real situation in Crimea



    The devastating human, economic costs of Crimea’s annexation

    But Igor Vasilyev did not die during the Black Sea peninsula’s 2014 takeover from Ukraine.

    At 67, he was also too old to fight for pro-Russian separatists in southeastern Ukraine who were so inspired by Crimea’s “return to the homeland” that they took up arms against the central government.

    For years, Vasilyev struggled with a chronic heart condition.

    Before the Kremlin channeled billions of dollars to restore Crimea’s infrastructure and “optimised” healthcare by cutting costs, his village district outside the Urals Mountains city of Chelyabinsk had four ambulances, and one always came to his rescue.

    But on November 13, 2015, the only remaining ambulance was late, his sister said.

    “It … arrived three and a half hours later. To issue a death certificate,” said Vasilyeva, 71, who refused to identify the name of her village.

    Crimea’s annexation skyrocketed President Vladimir Putin’s approval ratings to 88 percent.

    The Black Sea peninsula’s sandy beaches, cypress groves and wines make it seem to some like a vacation paradise, given that most of Russia’s coastline faces the Arctic and Northern Pacific.

    But if one looks at Crimea seven years after the annexation through the lens of financial analytics, the peninsula that has no land border with Russia appears entirely different.

    It is a fiscal victory that inflicted a devastating toll – triggering Western sanctions, hobbling Russia’s economic growth, noticeably affecting the livelihoods of average Russians and even contributing to a crisis in the once-famous space industry.

    The Kremlin spent tens of billions of dollars on infrastructure projects in Crimea such as the $3.7bn, 19 kilometre-long bridge linking the peninsula to mainland Russia.

    It splashed lavishly on new highways and hospitals, power plants, transmission lines and subsidies for Crimea’s rapidly swelling population of more than 2.5 million.

    Western sanctions imposed on Moscow after the annexation cost Russian corporations more than 100 billion, or about 4.2 percent of Russia’s gross domestic product (GDP), according to a study by Daniel Ahn and Rodney Ludema, former top economists at the US Department of State.

    Putin’s efforts to shield the corporations, most of which are controlled by his former colleagues and neighbours, add up the losses to 8 percent of the GDP, said the study published in November in the European Economic Review.

    “Eight percent is not anything to sneeze at. It is a big number,” Ahn told reporters in December.

    Other analysts, however, dispute the number.

    “Direct losses are minuscule,” Ukrainian analyst Aleksey Kushch told Al Jazeera. He said the sanctions resulted in the loss of just one percent of Russia’s GDP.

    However, Russia’s bilateral trade with Ukraine tanked from its peak of almost $50bn in 2011, and annual losses amount to at least $20bn, he said.

    The second-most populous ex-Soviet republic with a population of 43 million, Ukraine was Russia’s major trade partner and a source of labour migrants, food products, steel and hi-tech products.

    Dozens of Ukrainian factories and research facilities that worked for Russia’s military-industrial complex and space industry severed their ties overnight, inflating the cost of new arms and spaceships.

    But Western sanctions over the annexation, which included a ban on advanced technological exports, crippled Russia’s already troubled space industry, an expert said.

    “They seriously slowed the development of Russia’s space programme,” Pavel Luzin, a Russia-based analyst for the Jamestown Foundation, a think tank in Washington, DC, told Al Jazeera.

    Beef over water

    Many in Crimea supported the annexation because of Moscow’s promises to increase their salaries and pensions, build better roads and boost tourism.

    But these days, soaring prices, corruption and spiralling pressure on any form of dissent make them wonder why they voted for “joining” Russia in the March 2014 “referendum” that has not been recognised in Ukraine or internationally.

    “To make people less agitated, [Moscow] has to spend colossal amounts to solve their problems,” Nikolay Poritsky, Crimea’s former minister of housing and communal services under Ukraine, told Al Jazeera.

    Life under Russia became complicated.

    A butcher who lives outside Simferopol, Crimea’s administrative capital, said that after the annexation, he lost access to Ukrainian meat products, and it took him months to find a reliable supplier in southern Russia.

    After the first purchase, the supplier tried to sell him low-quality frozen beef.

    “He said, ‘You live far and may not come back again, and I have to feed my family,’” the butcher, who spoke on condition of anonymity, told Al Jazeera.

    He now only opens his shop once a week to sell chicken – because the demand is too low.

    There is another looming catastrophe awaiting those in Crimea, at home.

    Crimea is mostly known because of its southern coast, a subtropical, postcard-perfect sliver of verdant land filled with hotels, resorts and former residencies of top Communist leaders and Russian czars.

    Most of the peninsula is, however, arid steppe and mountains.

    The Soviet-built North Crimean Canal supplied 85 percent of water from the mighty Dnieper River making irrigated agriculture and population growth possible.

    Ukraine shut down the canal in 2014, nearly obliterating agriculture in Crimea and forcing de-facto authorities to ration water supply in urban centres.

    These days, Simferopol, the second-largest city on the Crimean Peninsula, gets water for three hours a day on weekdays and for five hours on weekends. Apartment building residents rush to fill their baths.

    The water pumped from nearly-depleted reservoirs and polluted wells is sometimes dirty.

    “I filled a bath once, and the water was the colour of brandy,” Edem Kurtveliyev, a medical doctor who lives in a nine-story apartment building in southern Simferopol, told Al Jazeera.

    De-facto authorities announced multi-million projects to pump water from aquifers, but admit that the sole long-term solution to the water crisis is construction of pricey desalination plants.

    “Desalination is the only way out,” Crimea’s pro-Russian head Sergey Aksyonov told the RIA Novosti news agency in December.

    Four months later, he compared Ukraine’s refusal to reopen the canal to “state terrorism” and “genocide”.
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Fri May 21, 2021 7:51 pm

    This is nothing but agitprop. If things had gotten worse after 2014 people would be voting with their feet and there would be
    strife. It is an established fact that incomes went up 300% to reach Russian levels after the legal return of Crimea to Russia
    after its annexation by Ukraine during the breakup of the USSR. The term "annexation" is utter propaganda BS language.
    Also, "recognition" by some "international community" is garbage and not legally binding. That's like having some gang of
    neighbours "recognize" that your house belongs to one of them and not you. Law does not work by flash-mobbing.

    Anyone who doubts that Crimea is better off today than in 2013, can look at the infrastructure. It is a litmus test of living
    conditions and there is enough video evidence of Crimea's makeover with new roads and buildings over the last six years.
    Then you have the absence of unemployment as a problem. People have jobs and well paying ones compared to Ukraine.
    So what economic costs is this fucker yammering on about? The ones to Russia's federal budget? And I am sure the
    "human costs" refers to the butthurt in Kiev.

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    wilhelm

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    Post  wilhelm Fri May 21, 2021 8:13 pm

    PhSt, why on earth do you not provide a link or description to which media outlet published the article??
    This is important, as articles put out by certain media outlets (BBC, CNN, etc) can instantly be dismissed as crude propaganda, and not worthy of wasting a second of your time on.
    Edit: Al Jazeera, the outlet sponsored by The Qatari government. I rarely read their stuff, as it is agenda driven.

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    Post  Yugo90 Sat May 22, 2021 12:03 am

    I don't get It....ukraine just cut off water supply for 2 million people and EU doesn't say a word...I think they should be punished very hard for this...Because they are targeting civilian population with this move....

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    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Sat May 22, 2021 12:37 am

    Yugo90 wrote:I don't get It....ukraine just cut off water supply for 2 million people and EU doesn't say a word...I think they should be punished very hard for this...Because they are targeting civilian population with this move....

    But if further legitimizes Russia's ownership over Crimea.

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