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    Serbian Air Force Needs and Modernization

    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon

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    Post  PapaDragon Wed Aug 11, 2021 5:56 pm


    Serbia is negotiating the purchase 11 second hand Mi-35P from Cyprus

    Cyprus in it's infinite wisdom placed sanctions on Russia so now overhauling them is a no go and they are looking to offload them somewhere before buying something different which is where Serbia comes in

    This would be "purchase of opportunity"

    Idea seems to be to get them on the cheap and send them to Russia for overhaul and upgrade

    They are long in the tooth but will still be useful and 11 unexpected attack helos on the cheap and fast shouldn't hurt

    https://tangosix.rs/2021/09/08/poslednja-vest-kiparski-medij-srbija-pregovara-sa-kiprom-o-kupovini-11-borbenih-helikoptera-mi-35p/




    Also, cops will be getting 2 Ka-32 firefighting helicopters, looks like everyone (rightfully) expects these forest fires to become regular occurrence

    https://tangosix.rs/2021/11/08/poslednja-vest-vucic-srbija-kupuje-2-helikoptera-ka-32/

    SWAT will be getting 3 Super-Pumas soon (so they could finally stop sponging off Military for Mi-8s) which also can fight fires so this should amount to decent boost on that front




    George1, d_taddei2 and littlerabbit like this post

    Isos
    Isos

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    Post  Isos Wed Aug 11, 2021 7:46 pm

    Forest fires happen every summer for quite some time now so it's already a regular event.

    It's better to buy few choppers for few millions to fight them when they are little and for years than pay tens of millions to lease aircraft for a month or so when it's too late.
    d_taddei2
    d_taddei2

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    Post  d_taddei2 Thu Aug 12, 2021 12:50 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Serbia is negotiating the purchase 11 second hand Mi-35P from Cyprus

    Cyprus in it's infinite wisdom placed sanctions on Russia so now overhauling them is a no go and they are looking to offload them somewhere before buying something different which is where Serbia comes in

    This would be "purchase of opportunity"

    Idea seems to be to get them on the cheap and send them to Russia for overhaul and upgrade

    They are long in the tooth but will still be useful and 11 unexpected attack helos on the cheap and fast shouldn't hurt


    Serbia needed a good attack heli and the mi-35 is ideal due to versatility.

    Would have been nice for Serbia SOKO to have gained production rights for Ansat and Ansat 2RC had it still been producing helis, I wonder if UTVA could take on such rights, would allow Serbia to produce helis to replace gazelle, and could easily maintain then cheaply if done within the company.

    Am also surprised that they never went down to route of get rights for Metis M2 then improving it to M3 standards. They seem keen on saggar most likely due to the costs, cheapest ATGW u can buy, and missiles so cheap u have plenty of Training opportunities, the command guided 2T5 version was most likely driven by mounting them on gazelle, then secondary to BOV-1. Serbia despite its financial constraints have been very creative.
    littlerabbit
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    Post  littlerabbit Thu Aug 12, 2021 1:33 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Serbia is negotiating the purchase 11 second hand Mi-35P from Cyprus

    Cyprus in it's infinite wisdom placed sanctions on Russia so now overhauling them is a no go and they are looking to offload them somewhere before buying something different which is where Serbia comes in

    This would be "purchase of opportunity"

    Idea seems to be to get them on the cheap and send them to Russia for overhaul and upgrade

    They are long in the tooth but will still be useful and 11 unexpected attack helos on the cheap and fast shouldn't hurt

    https://tangosix.rs/2021/09/08/poslednja-vest-kiparski-medij-srbija-pregovara-sa-kiprom-o-kupovini-11-borbenih-helikoptera-mi-35p/




    Also, cops will be getting 2 Ka-32 firefighting helicopters, looks like everyone (rightfully) expects these forest fires to become regular occurrence

    https://tangosix.rs/2021/11/08/poslednja-vest-vucic-srbija-kupuje-2-helikoptera-ka-32/

    SWAT will be getting 3 Super-Pumas soon (so they could finally stop sponging off Military for Mi-8s) which also can fight fires so this should amount to decent boost on that front





    I hope this doesn't mean we will stop buying new Mi-35M helicopters from Russia...would be nice to have 2 squadrons.

    I believe Gazelles will soon be decommissioned? dunno
    d_taddei2
    d_taddei2

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    Post  d_taddei2 Thu Aug 12, 2021 2:34 pm

    littlerabbit wrote:
    I hope this doesn't mean we will stop buying new Mi-35M helicopters from Russia...would be nice to have 2 squadrons.

    I believe Gazelles will soon be decommissioned?  dunno

    What will replace gazelle? I always felt Ansat 2RC as the attack element could still use sagger 2T5 on it. And the transport Ansat version. The 2RC version has chaff and IR jammer, built in 12.7mm gun, and optical target and tracking ball, and can be fitted with a mixture of weapons Inc verba, extra fuel tanks, and president-s if needed, this would be a similar type of Heli as a replacement but better than the gazelle and cheap to buy,. In theory Serbia having Mi-17, Mi-35, Ansat and Ansat 2RC would be all the models it needs.

    A link on the forum for interesting read on the 2RC
    https://www.russiadefence.net/t7504-kazan-ansat-2rc-recon-helicopter#321133
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Thu Aug 12, 2021 6:38 pm

    littlerabbit wrote:...I hope this doesn't mean we will stop buying new Mi-35M helicopters from Russia...would be nice to have 2 squadrons.

    I don't think so, this was something that popped up accidentally not planned in advance

    Purchase of new Mi-35s from Russia might be pushed back in favour of buying more Mi-171 ahead of schedule but at the end overall numbers should stay the same, only timeframe will be shuffled around



    littlerabbit wrote:...I believe Gazelles will soon be decommissioned?  dunno

    Gazelles will never be decommissioned, spare parts are all locally made and supply is infinite

    Even if we buy one H145 for every Gazelle we have they will all still stay in use (or at the worst be passed down to police, firefighters or mountain rescue service)

    They are old but are too good to let go



    d_taddei2
    d_taddei2

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    Post  d_taddei2 Fri Aug 13, 2021 12:06 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    littlerabbit wrote:...I hope this doesn't mean we will stop buying new Mi-35M helicopters from Russia...would be nice to have 2 squadrons.  

    I don't think so, this was something that popped up accidentally not planned in advance

    Purchase of new Mi-35s from Russia might be pushed back in favour of buying more Mi-171 ahead of schedule but at the end overall numbers should stay the same, only timeframe will be shuffled around



    littlerabbit wrote:...I believe Gazelles will soon be decommissioned?  dunno

    Gazelles will never be decommissioned, spare parts are all locally made and supply is infinite

    Even if we buy one H145 for every Gazelle we have they will all still stay in use (or at the worst be passed down to police, firefighters or mountain rescue service)

    They are old but are too good to let go


    I was led to believe SOKO no longer produces parts and now into automotive industry. I think airframe life will kill off the gazelles not the parts, am surprised that they didn't buy up the UK gazelles they were selling them off 5-6yrs ago some as cheap as £20k. Gazelles are good, but they will eventually need replacing. I remember flying in a Westland Wessex in N.Ireland it was past it's life and use to leak when raining, and many issues people at times use to fear flying in them and if two helis turned up a Wessex and lynx or puma u always heard people saying let's get on the lynx or puma before anyone else gets in it, loool.
    littlerabbit
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    Post  littlerabbit Mon Aug 16, 2021 9:23 pm

    Looking at this Afganistan pulling off, it is much clear to me why we urgently need a lot of Mi-35's (not only them), even if they are used.  Neutral
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:57 pm

    littlerabbit wrote:Looking at this Afganistan pulling off, it is much clear to me why we urgently need a lot of Mi-35's (not only them), even if they are used.  Neutral

    I agree 100% about needing more Mi-35s but what does Afghanistan have to do with that?
    littlerabbit
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    Post  littlerabbit Tue Aug 17, 2021 1:42 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    littlerabbit wrote:Looking at this Afganistan pulling off, it is much clear to me why we urgently need a lot of Mi-35's (not only them), even if they are used.  Neutral

    I agree 100% about needing more Mi-35s but what does Afghanistan have to do with that?

    I have this idea...what if this US pull off continues, not due to their strategy, but necessity? What if they decide to pull off from our south province, maybe even from Republika Srpska? Maybe not right away, but in few years? There won't be anyone who will stand between our people there and albanians/muslims/croats. If shit hits the fan, our army will have to intervene, right? But with what, if we wouldn't have strong enough military? unshaven

    Btw, our government should talk to Taliban and make a deal: we recognize your legitimacy, you recall the recognition of independance of our south province. Smile
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    ALAMO

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    Post  ALAMO Tue Aug 17, 2021 8:44 am

    I would say, that Serbia owns a quite potent military, considering its size and economy.
    I observe with great interest how you resolve some problems.
    Some of your weapon systems constructed with your own force are extremely interesting.
    ALAS and its whole family, Nora in both variants, your genuine MLRS systems ...
    Not bad for a 7mln country ...
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Tue Aug 17, 2021 11:23 am

    When the taleban regain power in Afghanistan they will want to buy weapons... if you are smart you could get some good deals... but the risks would be there too.
    littlerabbit
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    Post  littlerabbit Wed Aug 18, 2021 11:28 am




    It's on media more and more, looks like a done deal. Exclamation
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Wed Aug 18, 2021 2:47 pm

    GarryB wrote:When the taleban regain power in Afghanistan they will want to buy weapons... if you are smart you could get some good deals... but the risks would be there too.

    Personally I would be more interested in trying to get those Super Tucanos that hopped across the border on the cheap (but that's just me thinking out loud)
    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Wed Aug 18, 2021 4:53 pm

    GarryB wrote:When the taleban regain power in Afghanistan they will want to buy weapons... if you are smart you could get some good deals... but the risks would be there too.

    only one who would sell them weapons really would be china even then that won't be cheap. Afghan under the Taliban doesn't exactly have a lot of money to work with.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu Aug 19, 2021 6:14 am

    Why do you think that?

    Does China have some exclusive contract with the Taleban?

    Is China going to strip mine the country and give the Taleban no money at all for it?

    I would think it is more a case of one set of companies and countries out and a rival set of companies and countries in...
    littlerabbit
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    Post  littlerabbit Sun Aug 22, 2021 2:33 pm



    President Vucic confirmed in this video that we are getting 7 new helis from Russia (probably 4 Mi-35M and 3 Mi-17V5), few from European countries (3 EC-225) and from Cyprus (Mi-35P).

    Who knows Serbian, can watch from 7:00.

    George1 and PapaDragon like this post

    littlerabbit
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    Post  littlerabbit Wed Aug 25, 2021 11:30 pm

    I stumbled on this, today...it is said that Russia is selling, for the first time, Pantsir S1M, Krasuha and Rapelent systems to a foreign customer.

    I hope it's Serbia. Very Happy

    I have tried to find this article in English, but no success. Only in Serbian.


    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu Aug 26, 2021 3:20 pm

    Sounds like a combination Armenia might want...  but then a lot of countries would find such a combination rather useful... Iran, Syria, even Turkey... or Saudi Arabia...

    The chances of it being Serbia are rather much better than it being New Zealand..... Sad
    littlerabbit
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    Post  littlerabbit Tue Sep 07, 2021 7:50 pm

    I was thinking about something...since Cyprus is trying to get rid of some Russian military hardware, is it possible they want also to replace Buk 1/2 systems and T-80 tanks?

    We have seen recent announcement that Serbia took over Kosmos factory in Republika Srpska, to maintain/modernize Kub and Buk systems. Is it possible for Serbia to acquire Buk systems from Cyprus?

    What about 82 T-80's?

    Is it possible?! unshaven

    What do you guys think?
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Tue Sep 07, 2021 9:32 pm

    littlerabbit wrote:....
    What about 82 T-80's?
    Is it possible?! unshaven
    What do you guys think?

    T-80 is a pain in the ass, unless you are in the Arctic it's not worth the hassle

    Better to get another 30 T-72s than 82 T-80s

    Isos
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    Post  Isos Tue Sep 07, 2021 9:46 pm

    littlerabbit wrote:I was thinking about something...since Cyprus is trying to get rid of some Russian military hardware, is it possible they want also to replace Buk 1/2 systems and T-80 tanks?

    We have seen recent announcement that Serbia took over Kosmos factory in Republika Srpska, to maintain/modernize Kub and Buk systems. Is it possible for Serbia to acquire Buk systems from Cyprus?

    What about 82 T-80's?

    Is it possible?! unshaven

    What do you guys think?

    Belorussian buk are already planed if I remember correctly. Maybe even russian ones. To be checked.

    Cyprus need tanks and AD. I doubt they want to get ride of t-80 and buks that are a big help agaibst turks.

    What would they replace them with ? NATO manpads and MRAPs taken from affghanistan ?

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