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    dino00
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    Post  dino00 on Wed May 01, 2019 1:12 am

    Kimppis:

    I think you did a great job debunking that trash article, and putting the link if anyone wants to see.
    Great post!
    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Wed May 01, 2019 2:22 am

    Transition to a professional military force has been the policy for over 15 years. There is clear progress in this area and this article
    sounds like the sort of fantasy drivel that is produced in Banderatard-land about the Kerch Strait bridge. That it will never will be built,
    that it isn't really there and that it will fall apart before it can really be used...ad nauseam. Nobody in NATO has demonstrated any
    proven case of failure in Russia in basically anything. All these articles are pure masturbatory delusional projection. Do these clowns
    think it will become true if they write it?
    franco
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    Post  franco on Wed May 01, 2019 2:46 am

    Russia recently revealed that its 2015 program to offer para-military training to teenagers had so far gained 350,000 members (and has a goal of one million).
    What is he talking about here?




    He is talking about the Unarmy Patriotic Youth Organization. An organization sponsored by the Military for teenagers. Exists on different levels of involvement ranging from Boy Scouts /Girl Guide type to Military Cadet Corps.


    "The damage the one-year conscript service did to the military was never officially admitted until recently because senior officers were told that anyone speaking about this publicly would do serious damage to their careers. But, as officers with knowledge of the extent of the damage retired or resigned from the military, more of them spoke openly of the problem.
    Because of the growing demand for troops to serve in eastern Ukraine and Syria, there was more discussion on the Internet of the negative impact one-year conscripts have inflicted. Denials from the government were no longer working and active duty generals and admirals unofficially admitted it was all true, and that it was actually as bad as much of the Internet chatter implied.
    It was no secret that the presence of so many ill-trained conscripts in the military discouraged men from joining as volunteers (contract soldiers) and many existing officers and career enlisted men were leaving as well. For years it had been generally believed that the only effective units in the Russian military were the 100,000 or so troops in the Spetsnaz (special operations) and airborne units and even these units took some conscript volunteers and used them for support jobs requiring less training and experience."



    Russian Combat Regiments / Brigades breakdown to form 3 BTG's or Battalion Tactical Groups. In NATO parlance these are called Battle Groups, the basic combined arms fighting unit of all modern military's. A standard BTG would be a Motor Rifle / Tank battalion supported by a company of Tanks / Motor Rifle, a SP howitzer battery (company), maybe a MRL battery depending on the situation, a platoon or company of anti-tank, engineer, air defense, reconnaissance and whatever other support arms deemed necessary to the assigned situation. Two out of the three BTG's are comprised of contract soldiers only and they are the fighting units. The third BTG is comprised of conscripts led by contract NCO's and their role would be in support (holding and clearing won battlefields).

    Russian military units compete for the title of "Shock Troops". Winners get financial bonuses along with first debs on new equipment. To obtain this status, the unit must exhibit a high level of training and equipment readiness.

    This is not your father's Russian Military.
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Wed May 01, 2019 7:12 am

    The article was poorly written and yes, Kimmpis did a good job of breaking it apart.  Credibility of course doesn't exist when not a single source and numbers provided.  Russian flight hours since 2012 has been 125h average per pilot.  As for equipment, I'm not sure what is being said. Majority of US and NATO gear is old cold war era shit but given some modernizations here and there. There is very few new stuff.  Since lately, majority of procurement are systems newer or modernized cold war era. Su-34, Su-30SM, and Su-35 are all newer. Yes, some of these systems were thought up as during end of Soviet Union but they never saw light of day. Most of it isn't even the same aircraft anyway. Now add in missiles (Iskander, Yars, Kinzhal, etc) are all post Soviet stuff.  Armata and Su-57 are examples of newer stuff.  

    Then the article goes on about moral and what not but doesn't give anything to provide as evidence.

    Procurement has been rather steady and as Kimmpis said, transparent (for most part): new AD systems, new fighter jets, new ships, new everything. Soldiers in Russia now look nothing like soldiers did back in 2008 Georgian conflict. They are all looking professional now.

    Yes, there is room for modernization, and that is purpose of the SAP program. Russia also shows how much it spent per year on military procurement.

    As for no money comment, that is what really brings the obvious out from this article - that it's a collection of garbage.  Russia operates a surplus. Wish we could say the same for most countries.

    kvs wrote:Transition to a professional military force has been the policy for over 15 years.   There is clear progress in this area and this article
    sounds like the sort of fantasy drivel that is produced in Banderatard-land about the Kerch Strait bridge.   That it will never will be built,
    that it isn't really there and that it will fall apart before it can really be used...ad nauseam.    Nobody in NATO has demonstrated any
    proven case of failure in Russia in basically anything.    All these articles are pure masturbatory delusional projection.   Do these clowns
    think it will become true if they write it?

    There are different kinds of people in this world. Judging by the article on how poorly written it was and lack of detail or even backup stats (none actually) combined with the amateur web design, gives indication that he/she is an amateur "military analyst" which hopes that when writing such nonsense, they may get funding from anti Russian groups or get some sort of Fame like Carl Kopp or that asshole from Russian Defense Policy.

    If the person is already notorious, then this is even worst. I'm no specialist at all, but even I know to use sources to backup my claims like all written essays. That is even taught in English class all the way to grade 12.
    Kimppis
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    Post  Kimppis on Wed May 01, 2019 9:46 pm

    Thanks for the replies.

    And yeah, I just love the "upgraded late-Soviet era Western equipment = modern, upgraded late-Soviet era Russian equipment = outdated" meme.

    He is talking about the Unarmy Patriotic Youth Organization. An organization sponsored by the Military for teenagers. Exists on different levels of involvement ranging from Boy Scouts /Girl Guide type to Military Cadet Corps.


    So what's the "deadline" for one million? Either way, seems like his description of the organization was a "little" misleading... Speaking of teenagers, the author seemed like one to me. I'm not even kidding, some 17 year old Russian-speaking Russophobe from Eastern Europe/Russia itself who is, as miketheterrible put it, "an amateur "military analyst" which hopes that when writing such nonsense, they may get funding from anti Russian groups or get some sort of Fame like Carl Kopp or that asshole from Russian Defense Policy."

    And indeed, in addition to procurement numbers, we know for a fact that, even after 2015-16:

    - Flight hours have increased

    - The availability rate of aircraft has increased

    - more and more contract soldiers every year

    - morale and conditions have improved, and the military's reputation has considerably improved among the Russian public

    But has there been an unexpected slowdown in the number of contract soldiers? How many are needed anyway for a fully professional military? 600,000? 700,000?
    franco
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    Post  franco on Wed May 01, 2019 11:06 pm

    But has there been an unexpected slowdown in the number of contract soldiers? How many are needed anyway for a fully professional military? 600,000? 700,000?

    Present plans call for a fully professional military of 700,000 officers, warrant officers, sergeants and contract soldiers. Another 225-240,000 conscripts and 60-70,000 cadets in Military Schools (these cadets maybe Officer, Warrant Officer or Sergeant). There has been a slowdown which I suspect is the result of several factors. There seems to be an increase occurring right now in which an additional 10,000 contract and 6,000 conscripts are coming into service. It will be a month or two to confirm however this will allow the new Divisions to become fully operational. In fact this increase in new units has caused the growth of the percentage of "modern military weapons and equipment" to slow down as old equipment is brought out of storage and made serviceable for the new units.


    So what's the "deadline" for one million?

    This is one of Shoigu's pet projects. Not sure if this is realistic but they wanted it by the 75th anniversary of VE Day in 2020.


    "Speaking of teenagers, the author seemed like one to me"


    Noticed that one of authors was a Spec 4 (Corporal) back over 50 years ago. Perhaps he has commenced his second childhood Smile
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Thu May 02, 2019 1:38 am

    He probably ran out of money so he is seeking funding as a "think tank" to pay for his habbit of booze, blow and hookers.

    Slowdown is interesting though in taking in contract soldiers. I believe it was you franko that last posted that over 150,000 came to sign up but only few got selected?

    I think there may be one other issue - the fit of the men. My understanding is they are rather strict on how fit the soldiers should be before giving them lucrative contract. So maybe more conscripts and then hiring them on later?

    National guard though has way more people in it.
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    Post  franco on Sat May 25, 2019 6:03 pm

    About the rear

    In the MTO system serve 165 thousand soldiers and 145 thousand civilians. This is almost 30% of the Russian army. The system prepares 3 million servings of food per day, issues 15 million items of clothing per year, contains 120 thousand units of military equipment and 400 thousand vehicles.
    [...] Dining rooms and galleys - more than 3 thousand, including 887 transferred to food with elements of the "buffet". At the same time, 730 canteens have the function of ordering food and are equipped with an access control system. Simply put, if you are registered in the system, that is, you get up for contentment, put your thumb on the scanner - and you get breakfast, lunch or dinner.
    [...] Places for washing and washing clothes, equipped with shower cabins (42 thousand) and washing machines (14.5 thousand).
    Parks for storage, maintenance and repair of weapons and military equipment - 1.5 thousand. Stationary stations for refueling vehicles - more than 1 thousand.
    Navy support vessels - 68, with 6 new auxiliary fleet vessels taken in 2018. By 2029, their number will be increased to 95.
    For 2018, for the needs of the troops and fleet forces, the MTO system supplied 2 million tons of fuel and lubricants, 85 million items of clothing and equipment, and 7.5 million units of household goods and equipment. In 2018, 2.5 million troops and their families were transported, as well as 7 million tons of military cargo.
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    Post  Makarov420 on Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:19 am

    Sorry ive been gone awhile. Is russian infantry troop strength really 350,000 infantry i feel that number is a bit flawed from what i read online. Vostock 2018 had 300,000 russian military personnel participate. with 25,000 in Crimea and between bases in armenia central asia vietnam and syria another 24,000 That means at vostock 2018 every single infantry was their and nothing was protecting anything else in the mainland except for the national guard which i find hard to believe. It seems to me the Russian ground forces must have stronger numbers pushing 400K or much more today in 2019. I know they were cut down to the bone back in 2010-2012 but some of these number just are not adding up . i know that you get extra numbers on the side for the air force and Navy ,but still Russia historically has always kept a significant troop count to their western flank . Please excuse me for my lack of knowledge. What exactly am i missing? are they trying to hide the real numbers for geopolitical reasons?
    franco
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    Post  franco on Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:42 am

    Makarov420 wrote:Sorry ive been gone awhile. Is russian infantry troop strength really 350,000 infantry i feel that number is a bit flawed from what i read online. Vostock 2018 had 300,000 russian military personnel participate. with 25,000 in Crimea and between bases in armenia central asia vietnam and syria another 24,000 That means at vostock 2018 every single infantry was their and nothing was protecting anything else in the mainland except for the national guard which i find hard to believe. It seems to me the Russian ground forces must have stronger numbers pushing 400K or much more today in 2019. I know they were cut down to the bone back in 2010-2012 but some of these number just are not adding up . i know that you get extra numbers on the side for the air force and Navy ,but still Russia historically has always kept a significant troop count to their western flank . Please excuse me for my lack of knowledge. What exactly am i missing? are they trying to hide the real numbers for geopolitical reasons?

    A lot of questions but will answer this one. When a major exercise is called, basically all units in that District along with a few select units from neighboring Districts (acting as reinforcements) are put on alert. Meaning that 150,000 - 350,000 military personnel are point on alert to prepare to move and engage in combat. However only some of them actually move out to some training ground to participate in some mock battle. In example, a 4600 man brigade may have a 800 man Battle Tactical Group deploy to a training ground 500 kilometers away and engage in a mock war scenario. There will also be Air Defense, Aviation, Naval and support units training exercises in conjunction to the overall war game scenario. So 350,000 are mobilized, 70,000 deploy and engage in some training exercise and 10-15,000 engage in the main training exercise. Hopefully this helps.
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    Post  franco on Sun Oct 06, 2019 3:41 pm

    2019 Fall Draft (Oct-Dec) has commenced with a target of 132,000. Coupled with the Spring Draft of 135,000, this gives a total of 267,000 for the year.

    In 2018, the two drafts totaled 260,500. Of these 232,280 went to the Ministry of Defense while the other 28,220 went to the Security forces, mostly National Guard (VV) but some to the Kremlin Regiment (FSO) and a few to the EMERCON military units.

    Provided the requirements of the Security forces remained the same as last year (28,220), that would leave 238,780 for the Defense forces and an increase of 6,500. It was also reported that contract Sergeants and privates will be at the ratio of 1.7:1 or 405,920. This would indicate they have reached their next planned stage of having 405,000 contractees.
    AlfaT8
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    Post  AlfaT8 on Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:36 pm

    Hello Gents, long time no posts.

    Bin busy these last few months, and such.
    But i recently ran into one of these MerikaStronk types and he asked some interesting questions, which i am having an incredibly hard time finding data on.

    Soviet training and conscription and how inferior these conscripts were to the better trained Merikans and Euros, cant find much data here or the further career option these conscripts had after they are done serving their 2/3yr of conscription.

    Also Soviet air-force strength circa 1970s to early 80s, according to him, the Mig-21 was the airforce's main aircraft up until the Fulcrum and the Flanker came to be.
    Granted i know the Mig-23s and mig-25/31s were very much around during that time, but they were interceptors, not exactly fighters.

    Apparently this guy was in the military at the time, and got this info from numerous classified briefings at the time.

    Lack of spare parts, poor training.
    The unreliability of the Warsaw pact nations to fight if things got hot.
    Overall the Soviet Union was a negligible threat to the U.S and friends, and Germany alone could handle them today, if it weren't for the nukes.

    I am am mostly looking for info about the conscripts and their career options right now.
    franco
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    Post  franco on Sun Nov 03, 2019 11:15 pm

    AlfaT8 wrote:Hello Gents, long time no posts.

    Bin busy these last few months, and such.
    But i recently ran into one of these MerikaStronk types and he asked some interesting questions, which i am having an incredibly hard time finding data on.

    Soviet training and conscription and how inferior these conscripts were to the better trained Merikans and Euros, cant find much data here or the further career option these conscripts had after they are done serving their 2/3yr of conscription.

    Also Soviet air-force strength circa 1970s to early 80s, according to him, the Mig-21 was the airforce's main aircraft up until the Fulcrum and the Flanker came to be.
    Granted i know the Mig-23s and mig-25/31s were very much around during that time, but they were interceptors, not exactly fighters.

    Apparently this guy was in the military at the time, and got this info from numerous classified briefings at the time.

    Lack of spare parts, poor training.
    The unreliability of the Warsaw pact nations to fight if things got hot.
    Overall the Soviet Union was a negligible threat to the U.S and friends, and Germany alone could handle them today, if it weren't for the nukes.

    I am am mostly looking for info about the conscripts and their career options right now.

    1- post 116 gives basic training
    2- specialized trade training would be 4-16 weeks however most of these positions will now be filled by contract servicemen
    3- conscripts with a secondary education can immediately enlist for a 2 year contract service with the benefits associated in lieu of conscript service
    3- other conscripts may apply for contract service after serving their 1 year

    Not sure if that helps?
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:22 am

    Overall the Soviet Union was a negligible threat to the U.S and friends, and Germany alone could handle them today, if it weren't for the nukes.

    Of course the Soviet Union was no threat to Europe or the US, and todays Russia is the same... it is NATO bullshit propaganda that talks about Soviet tanks on the English Channel in two weeks bullshit to justify their bloated defence budgets and the presence of US forces in Europe at all.

    You might not be familiar with what was happening in Europe in the 70s and 80s, but are you asleep now?

    Look at all the rhetoric about how Putin wants to restore the Soviet Union and invade the baltic states and ukraine and georgia and the west to take away our freedoms because they are jealous that we have democracy and they are communist still...

    Same old contradiction... the Soviets are at the same time a third world tinpot dictatorship that is so corrupt and backwards they would collapse if the price of oil went below $200, and at the same time an all powerful enormous juggernaut poised to destroy democracy and the world because they are Russian and Russian people are hard wired to be mean to us nice pleasant well mannered westerners.

    The reality is that any Soviet attack on Europe is wet dreams from the US... they simply did not have the logistics support trains in place to mount such an operation... the purpose of the large Soviet military structure was to destroy any aggressors... preferably on eastern european soil rather than soviet soil again.

    The Soviets had plenty of MiG-23s... and MiG-21 were technically interceptors as well... both could perform manouvers and both were armed with guns.

    Were these classified briefings held by Soviet officials revealing actual facts about the Soviet Union... because otherwise this information could be part of the bullshit propaganda like Iraq has WMDs... and the Russians have invaded the Crimea... we know because we saw it on CNN...

    The performance of western intel leaves a lot to be desired... either willfully, or just part of the old stereotypes.

    I am am mostly looking for info about the conscripts and their career options right now.

    Yeah, I would think there would be plenty of similar problems within NATO at that time too... France wasn't even participating in that sort of stuff then either.

    I am sure he won the cold war all by himself... except it was all a big expensive lie like most of the cold war.

    The bomber gap and the missile gap turned out to be lies... Soviet propaganda fooled the west into thinking they were building bombers and missiles in enormous numbers, but U-2 flights and satellites confirming things proved there was a huge bomber gap and missile gap, but it was in the favour of the west.

    Ahh, you would say... they could save a lot of money and just go for parity and stability and peace, but instead they changed policies and went for superiority and first strike, so they made bombers and missiles they thought they were going to make to get parity, but instead the ended up making superior numbers... which of course forced the Soviets to do the same in an enormous and totally unnecessary orgy of spending on things of no value or use... a horrible waste of time and money.

    The real kicker was when Kissenger decided to suck up to the Chinese as a counter to the Soviets. The amusing thing is that while many would say it worked... no one asked the obvious question... if the Soviets were the main threat and they dealt with that threat by sucking up to the Chinese, which at the time were not considered a threat, then wouldn't it have made more sense to make friends with the Soviets... I mean really... what is teh difference between making friends with communist China and communist Soviet Union... if the Commie Chinese can be an ally, then the communist Soviets could be an even more useful ally... they already were an ally during WWII for goodness sake.

    But then the open hostility to no longer communist Russia just proves communism was the excuse, the underlying threat is that they are not like us... they didn't have the colonial past we had, they haven't robbed the known world of resources, yet they are a rival and a threat to our position on top.

    With all these genders and sexualities I am just waiting for someone to claim molesting animals is OK as long as they are consenting... always raising the bar sound good, but what they are actually doing is expanding the boundaries and that includes down.
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    Post  GarryB on Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:24 am

    BTW The only Soviet war plans I have seen show about 800 tactical nuclear attacks in the first 6 hours of a conflict in Europe... HQs and airfields and nuclear sights near the front lines mostly... they were not intending to take land or expand their empire... they were eliminating a threat.
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    Post  Hole on Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:05 am

    I would say the russian conscripts were much better then western ones, even better then most murican "professional" soldiers.

    1. the education system were much better (at least compared to that in murica)
    2. there were DOSAAF and military education in shools
    3. they had to stay 2 or even 3 years in the military, longer then in the west

    I can remember the mother of a murican soldier, who was killed in Iraq, complaining about the 3 weeks of training her son received before being send to Iraq.
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    Post  Isos on Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:17 am

    1. the education system were much better (at least compared to that in murica)

    US had a good educational system during the cold war (for the whites). It's only after they started to mix blacks with whites that they all started to go full retards with student fighting teachers and all being about making money on students by making them pay 50k$ a years of college.
    AlfaT8
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    Post  AlfaT8 on Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:59 pm

    Interesting responses, but not much in details.

    Again, info on conscripts and their positions, ranks, promotions and further training.
    Gimme all the details,charts and all.
    From the 70s to 80s.

    Also, aircraft inventory from that same period.
    Garry your right about the Mig-23s, but was it the mainstay aircraft?

    Gonna look up some documentaries to get more info too.


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    Post  AlfaT8 on Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:57 pm

    So no info then. scratch

    Retention rates, Army training manuals, airforce and Army training times, service years after conscription.
    Nothing, Nada??.... ok

    Perhaps it's all too annoying to gather, i know i haven't been able to find much.
    I was at least expecting our local Serb to enlighten us, but sadly not.

    Perhaps i should have framed it better, What was life like for conscripts in the 70s to 80s.
    And more importantly, what's the difference between them and regular army units?
    Or, what was it like for those who continued through Military schools or Colleges?

    I think i am having better luck with those inventories, but not by much.
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:33 am

    The fact is that the Soviets had no intent to invade the west, and were basically focussed on eliminating any potential threat the west posed to it.

    For the west a real open full scale conflict with the Soviets would have destroyed their economies and the international economy... most importantly it would not have been a repeat of WWII where few Americans died and they made a lot of money and saw potential rivals destroy each other at a basic level... ie people killed property destroyed... etc etc

    A real war in Europe would reach the US soon enough, the results of the conventional conflict wouldn't mean much because the nuclear result would destroy everything for both sides... the west had nothing to gain by an actual war, but perpetually being on the brink was good for the arms industries and the politicians they bribed.

    Remember it was 1987 that the INF treaty was signed so any conflict before then the Soviets had an enormous strike capacity and SAMs that could blunt any return fire in kind... Air fields were major priority targets and unlike the west, both the Soviet Air Force and the Soviet Army and the Soviet Navy were all equipped to fight enemy air power... taking out the thousands of Soviet fighters simply would not be enough to stop them... even assuming they could manage that.
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    Post  franco on Sat Mar 07, 2020 2:01 pm

    March 8 is an extra reason for each of men to say the warmest and most sincere words of love and respect to women, to admire their unique tenderness and charm. A woman by her very existence fills the world with grace, warms it with spiritual warmth. In any house with the appearance of a woman, cosiness, hospitality and harmony reign as if by itself. Inspire and support, warm and comfort - a woman's love is capable of true miracles.
    It so happened that without women, none of the known areas of activity is already unthinkable. Such a harsh state institution as the Armed Forces is no exception. Today, over 41 thousand women are serving in their ranks in Russia, including four thousand officers in ranks from lieutenant to colonel. Girls confidently storm the admission commissions of military universities: last year, the competition among candidates for admission to schools, institutes and academies of the Ministry of Defense of Russia averaged almost three dozen per place. Girls also study at pre-university educational institutions of the military department - last year, a branch in St. Petersburg was added to the well-known Pupils of Pupils located in Moscow, and besides, girls are accepted for study at the Presidential Cadet School in Kyzyl.
    More than thirty thousand women are contractually serving as soldiers and sergeants, and about seven thousand more have the military ranks of ensign and midshipman. Last year alone, 128 representatives of the better half of humanity, members of the Russian army and navy, were awarded state awards, of which 24 were military. Nearly eight thousand women were awarded the Defense Ministry of Russia.
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    Post  franco on Sun Mar 29, 2020 4:23 pm

    Shogiu reports that there were 405,100 contract military personnel at the end of 2019 plus 228,000 conscripts.

    Long term goals for end of 2027 are 499,200 contract and 220,000 conscripts.

    My best guess estimate is there are presently ~218,000 officers and ensigns (warrant officers)
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    Post  franco on Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:59 am

    Spring draft 2020 is for 135,000 men, the same as the 2019 Spring draft. Conscripts are to be tested for COVID-19 upon arrival and then quarantined for 2 weeks.
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    Post  George1 on Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:45 am

    Russian Armed Forces Personnel - Page 6 79756310

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4002337.html
    franco
    franco

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    Russian Armed Forces Personnel - Page 6 Empty Re: Russian Armed Forces Personnel

    Post  franco on Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:47 pm

    Shoigu claimed there was a total of 136 BTG's at the end of 2019, based on these numbers that would leave 40 BTG's for the Airborne and Naval Infantry.

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