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    Serbian Defence Industry and Arms Exports

    littlerabbit
    littlerabbit

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    Post  littlerabbit Sun Aug 29, 2021 4:58 pm

    George1 wrote:The Serbian company DLS Specijalni sistemi doo Beograd is developing a light tank on the chassis of the Soviet 2S1 Gvozdika self-propelled guns. A turret with a modified 100-mm T-12 / MT-12 Rapier anti-tank gun is used as a combat module.

    Serbian Defence Industry and Arms Exports - Page 10 48011110

    It looks cool...but I wonder if this combat module could be put on new Lazar3 vehicles? Wink
    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon

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    Post  PapaDragon Sun Aug 29, 2021 6:33 pm

    George1 wrote:The Serbian company DLS Specijalni sistemi doo Beograd is developing a light tank on the chassis of the Soviet 2S1 Gvozdika self-propelled guns. A turret with a modified 100-mm T-12 / MT-12 Rapier anti-tank gun is used as a combat module.

    https://i.servimg.com/u/f95/17/13/61/45/48011110.jpg

    Interesting

    Production of tracked vehicles is a huge weakness for Serbia so I guess reusing Gvozdika chassis is one way to get around it (Lord knows there plenty of them worldwide and are easy to acquire)

    But it would still need plenty of additional armor to make it practical, fortunately armor plates are easier to make than tracked vehicles



    littlerabbit wrote:It looks cool...but I wonder if this combat module could be put on new Lazar3 vehicles? Wink

    Would it be able to carry that weigh? Or handle recoil?

    If yes then I'm sure they are already working on it but this thing really looks massive so I dunno...



    GarryB
    GarryB

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    Post  GarryB Mon Aug 30, 2021 8:39 am

    Would be at a disadvantage against other tanks of the last few decades, but against older tanks in Africa like T-54s and T-55s and indeed T-34s it might get away with a lot simply by having better optics and better night vision gear.

    The 100mm gun is reasonably good against tanks of its generation, and would be plenty for use against most BMPs and BTRs as well as having good performance against bunkers and enemy firing positions.

    Once you start up armouring you will enter a spiral of needing a new engine and improved suspension etc etc and pretty soon you end up with something still less capable than you would have if you started with a T-72.

    I would say start with a T-72 if you want a tank... better gun, better armour, just as cheap and widely available.

    If this design is supposed to be amphibious and mobile on soft ground then used correctly it should be on its own in terms of armour... the only other tanks it will come across will be something like Sprut which would not have an enormously large amount of more armour or some light Chinese tank which again wont be heavily armoured either.

    I would say ERA, and really emphasise spaced armour for protection from ATGMs and RPGs but also for buoyancy... the 100mm smoothbore gun is fine... good penetration and good HE round.... anything heavier than that then buy Kornet missiles to engage...
    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon

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    Post  PapaDragon Mon Aug 30, 2021 11:07 pm

    GarryB wrote:Would be at a disadvantage against other tanks of the last few decades, but against older tanks in Africa like T-54s and T-55s and indeed T-34s it might get away with a lot simply by having better optics and better night vision gear.

    The 100mm gun is reasonably good against tanks of its generation, and would be plenty for use against most BMPs and BTRs as well as having good performance against bunkers and enemy firing positions.

    This is not something that would be used to fight actual tanks, it would be idiotic

    During wars here there was almost zero cases of tanks fighting other tanks, they were alsmost universaly used for infantry support

    This is most likely intended role for this vehicle while MBTs would be reserved for bigger things



    GarryB wrote:Once you start up armouring you will enter a spiral of needing a new engine and improved suspension etc etc and pretty soon you end up with something still less capable than you would have if you started with a T-72.

    There is no way they would leave it on stock Gvozdika chassis, it's too thin and would never get even close to any serious requirements

    Additional armour is definitely coming

    Just compare Lazar-1 and Lazar-3



    GarryB wrote:I would say start with a T-72 if you want a tank... better gun, better armour, just as cheap and widely available...

    Why not just buy whole T-72 then?


    GarryB
    GarryB

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    Post  GarryB Tue Aug 31, 2021 10:24 am

    Why not just buy whole T-72 then?

    That is what I am saying... if you want a light amphibious tank then the 2S1 is ready made and ready to go, but if you want to up armour it then you will find you start adding extra weight which means you need a bigger engine and new transmission and new suspension but it still wont be anything more than a light tank that most ATGMs will cut through like a hot knife through butter.

    Thicken the armour a little bit but no so much you need to change everything... rely on spaced armour... several light layers of armour are good for stopping HMG and very light cannon rounds... especially if you fill the cavities with useful stuff like fuel or just water or ceramic materials.

    If you are demanding decent levels of armour then start with a T-72 instead.... put a smaller lighter but still useful gun... if it is not going to be used against enemy tanks then use the 100mm gun of the BMP-3... tiny rounds you can carry in large numbers and includes a missile if something more dangerous turns up, but with a good HE punch.

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