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Ammo calibres for Russian Army

GarryB

GarryB: Posts : 34297
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Post n°176

Re: Ammo calibres for Russian Army

GarryB Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:39 am

308 calibre ???????
are we talking about the same weapons lol.
svd - 7.62mm x 54mmR
slr - 7.62mm x51 nato

Sorry, the area of calibres is a bit complicated and in most books 7.62mm is equated to .308 of an inch calibre.

In fact the 308 Winchester is what the 7.62x51mm NATO round is based on... the civilian calibre can have hotter loads so they are not called the same but in all practical terms they are the same.

The 7.62x54mm Russian rimmed rounds (note it is not a Soviet round... it was invented during the Russian empire period before WWI) is also described as being a 308, even though its original designation was the 3 line rifle... a line being a measurement equivalent to .1 of an inch... so it is often called a .30 calibre... the same as a lot of 7.62mm weapons.

Actually the 7.62x54mm and the 7.62x39mm and the 7.62x25mm rounds the Soviets used in WWII and after are all .311 calibre but they are called 30 calibre or 308, but that is just a mathematical thing as 7.62mm = .308 of an inch.

With the SVD it is interesting because it doesn't have the heavy bolt carrier slamming back and forward like the AK does, yet it still has very serious recoil...

In addition to the universality of the installation of the gun on the technique, a gun of 57 mm caliber itself is universal and can fire on almost any type of target. Infantry, armored vehicles, airplanes, drones, naval targets and the destruction of coastal targets, all this is available to one universal artillery installation.

So imagine the possibility of an improved Su-25 with a 57mm gun on its belly with a 120 or larger round magazine half way down its fuselage.... with perhaps the radar from attack helos and various EO pods with thermal sights and laser range finders for very precise shooting... various gyro sensors that can trigger the gun to fire at the precise aim point needed to hit a ground target 2-3km away or more...

Interesting... and much more fun than stealthy aircraft...

d_taddei2

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Post n°177

Re: Ammo calibres for Russian Army

d_taddei2 Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:38 pm

@GarryB ok understood

interesting article on the 57mm gun and the mention of putting it on helicopters and IL-76 this makes almost a sort of spooky gunship they have already trialled dumb bombs on the IL-76 having one armed with 57mm guns and a 122mm gun and some missiles and dumb bombs with the gefest etc upgrade u have a good gunship ideal for syria lol.

GarryB

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Post n°178

Re: Ammo calibres for Russian Army

GarryB Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:43 am

If they did go for a gunship type arrangement they have quite a few options in terms of weapon outfits.

Ideally they want stand off range and projectile payload, so their 23mm gatling or twin barrel cannon would be useful with a heavy for the calibre projectile weight... the guns could be angled upwards to extend range with their relatively low muzzle velocity, but they could easily use 30x165mm calibre twin or 6 barrel weapons for the job... the longer models have rather high relative muzzle velocities in the order of 960m/s for full calibre rounds.

These 57mm guns would add punch and power and range, while the heavy calibre gun options could include the 100mm gun of the BMP-3 as a compact low recoil weapon with a good HE payload, or even a 120mm gun/mortar or 122mm gun, but perhaps the new towed gun with the 152mm calibre gun mounted on the D30 360 degree rotating towed mount would add serious HE shell weight.

An Il-76 would probably be too big for the gunship role... perhaps a light gunship on the Il-112 or Il-114 platforms, or something similar in size to US spookies in the Il-276... traditionally the US gunships have been turboprops rather than jets presumably to keep the speed down.

Whatever they do it will need a serious self defence capacity... and with their Gefest and T blind bombing/navigation system they could add a bomb bay to the aircraft for serious targets that just need a big boom... say individual 1,000kg bombs, along with a range of smaller weapons for different targets...

d_taddei2

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Post n°179

Re: Ammo calibres for Russian Army

d_taddei2 Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:48 am

GarryB wrote:If they did go for a gunship type arrangement they have quite a few options in terms of weapon outfits.

Ideally they want stand off range and projectile payload, so their 23mm gatling or twin barrel cannon would be useful with a heavy for the calibre projectile weight... the guns could be angled upwards to extend range with their relatively low muzzle velocity, but they could easily use 30x165mm calibre twin or 6 barrel weapons for the job... the longer models have rather high relative muzzle velocities in the order of 960m/s for full calibre rounds.

These 57mm guns would add punch and power and range, while the heavy calibre gun options could include the 100mm gun of the BMP-3 as a compact low recoil weapon with a good HE payload, or even a 120mm gun/mortar or 122mm gun, but perhaps the new towed gun with the 152mm calibre gun mounted on the D30 360 degree rotating towed mount would add serious HE shell weight.

An Il-76 would probably be too big for the gunship role... perhaps a light gunship on the Il-112 or Il-114 platforms, or something similar in size to US spookies in the Il-276... traditionally the US gunships have been turboprops rather than jets presumably to keep the speed down.

Whatever they do it will need a serious self defence capacity... and with their Gefest and T blind bombing/navigation system they could add a bomb bay to the aircraft for serious targets that just need a big boom... say individual 1,000kg bombs, along with a range of smaller weapons for different targets...

even a zu-23-2 would be enough along with missiles rocket pods 122mm or 100mm gun and the bomb bay. not sure how firing a 152mm shell would effect the aircraft I know that the 105mm has quite a kick to the spooky. A An-12 would likely be ideal aircraft. another possibility with devastating effect would be mounting a Bm-21 grad mount would give u a good standoff range if needed but massive saturation firepower or even tos-1 type rocket launcher. or a rotating AGS system raining down 40mm grenade rounds could be pretty lethal if u wanted something a little heavier the automatic 82mm mortar including the anti armour rounds it has could be useful. As you said too many options and weapons available.

The-thing-next-door

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Post n°180

Re: Ammo calibres for Russian Army

The-thing-next-door Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:04 pm

GarryB wrote:If they did go for a gunship type arrangement they have quite a few options in terms of weapon outfits.

Ideally they want stand off range and projectile payload, so their 23mm gatling or twin barrel cannon would be useful with a heavy for the calibre projectile weight... the guns could be angled upwards to extend range with their relatively low muzzle velocity, but they could easily use 30x165mm calibre twin or 6 barrel weapons for the job... the longer models have rather high relative muzzle velocities in the order of 960m/s for full calibre rounds.

These 57mm guns would add punch and power and range, while the heavy calibre gun options could include the 100mm gun of the BMP-3 as a compact low recoil weapon with a good HE payload, or even a 120mm gun/mortar or 122mm gun, but perhaps the new towed gun with the 152mm calibre gun mounted on the D30 360 degree rotating towed mount would add serious HE shell weight.

An Il-76 would probably be too big for the gunship role... perhaps a light gunship on the Il-112 or Il-114 platforms, or something similar in size to US spookies in the Il-276... traditionally the US gunships have been turboprops rather than jets presumably to keep the speed down.

Whatever they do it will need a serious self defence capacity... and with their Gefest and T blind bombing/navigation system they could add a bomb bay to the aircraft for serious targets that just need a big boom... say individual 1,000kg bombs, along with a range of smaller weapons for different targets...

On such a craft one would not want to mount the guns just on one side nor would you want to get anywhere near the enemy, what you would probably want would be perhaps 2 120mm Nona mortars in underslung turrets and then some 82mm Vasileks on either side with some Krisentemas to deal with armored vehiles.

A short range us style gunship is just 1 ATGM away from a flaming pile of scrap.

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