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    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships

    The-thing-next-door
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    Post  The-thing-next-door on Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:41 am

    What happened to the aerodynamic designs of Soviet hovercraft?

    That thing does not even have any guns on it.
    Hole
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    Post  Hole on Sun Aug 23, 2020 12:39 pm

    A simple platform to bring troops/vehicles/supplies to the shore from a larger ship, I guess. The older hovercrafts were mostly designed to work on their one, i.e. go from your own shore to that of the enemy.
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    Post  franco on Sun Aug 23, 2020 1:04 pm

    This is for the new helicopter assault ships being built.
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Sun Aug 23, 2020 2:17 pm

    Hole wrote:A simple platform to bring troops/vehicles/supplies to the shore from a larger ship, I guess. The older hovercrafts were mostly designed to work on their one, i.e. go from your own shore to that of the enemy.
    By the way, a few years ago they mentioned the interest in building new large hovercraft project 12322 "Zubr", probably in More shipyard in Feodosia (Crimea)

    Are there news about it?
    The-thing-next-door
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    Post  The-thing-next-door on Sun Aug 23, 2020 2:26 pm

    Hole wrote:A simple platform to bring troops/vehicles/supplies to the shore from a larger ship, I guess. The older hovercrafts were mostly designed to work on their one, i.e. go from your own shore to that of the enemy.

    Well I guess that excuses the lack of style though it could still use an AK-6-30 or two
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    Post  Hole on Sun Aug 23, 2020 10:33 pm

    Pantsir-M Twisted Evil
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Mon Aug 24, 2020 7:34 am

    Yuk... it looks like those awful American air cushion vehicles... they call them LCACs or something... funny watching them in videos where they brag about how wonderful they are without mentioning that they are slower smaller and less well armed than most Soviet and Russian air cushion vehicles...

    They are the best... in the US armed forces...
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    Post  flamming_python on Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:31 pm

    News back from May but don't think it's been posted here

    http://mil.today/2020/Navy4/

    Russian Navy to Obtain New Long-Range Rescue Ships

    New sea/ocean zone salvage ships will be designed for the Russian Navy to replace Project 1452 Pamir-class rescuers. The designers received such an assignment from the naval command late in 2019, reports Mil.Press citing two informed insiders, an industry and a naval one.

    According to one of them, Almaz Design Bureau is engaged in the corresponding works. Another source shared that the bureau had finished the vessel’s pilot project by the end of Q1, 2020.

    The need for the new rescue ships with a silo-type rescue bell is estimated as 8-10, said the insiders.

    The new rescuer will displace about 5,000 tons, be 100 meters long, up to 18 meters wide and have 5 meters draft. One of the ship’s features is improved ice resistance: Arc5-class and higher.

    The new ship will have the silo-type rescue bell to ensure deeper dives, the industry insider told Mil.Press. However, the vessel is designed for specific missions, rather than to replace the Project 21300 Dolphin-class submarine rescuer, added the source. Mass production of the latter is suspended, as the designers plan to improve the project.

    So far, other details of the project are veiled. Mil.Press failed to get any prompt comments either from the navy or Almaz design bureau.

    FOR REFERENCE

    Project 1452 Pamir-class sea zone rescue tugs were commissioned in the Soviet Navy between 1974 and 1983. Out of four vessels ever built, three are still in service.

    Further, nine Project 527 rescue ships (when laid down, classified as sea zone tugs) were built for the Soviet Navy since 1959 to 1965. Currently, the Russian Navy operates only lead ship of that project, EPRON, though highly upgraded later.
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    Post  flamming_python on Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:44 pm

    More on the hospital ship plans, news from June
    Could be based on the Platform-DTO design shown below

    http://mil.today/2020/Navy5/

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 16 Dto10

    Russian Designers Offer Navy a Line of Hospital Ships, One Project Already Finalized

    In April and May, several Russian design bureaus offered the defense ministry their projects of new ambulance vessels, the insiders in three design companies told Mil.Press. Two bureaus are members of United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC).

    Media reported in June that the Russian defense minister, Sergey Shoygu had raised the issue of hospital ships procurement. The matter was discussed in the government, and the Ministry of Industry & Trade insists such ships must be created in Russia.

    One of the options is to purchase two RO/RO ships in Asia with further refitting into hospital ships. The procedure was evaluated at approx. 8 mln rubles.

    However, the Russian Navy needs at least 3 large hospital ships and, perhaps, some other smaller vessels of this kind, an informed naval source shared with Mil.Press.

    Two designers from major Russian bureaus said even in case of a small series, it is more reasonable to build such ships locally, out of Russian-made components and at Russian shipyards. According to the experts, current trend of the life cycle contracts ultimately makes the maintenance of Russian equipment cheaper and, most importantly, working for the national economy.

    Most deeply, the hospital ship project was elaborated by the Vympel Design Bureau located in Nizhny Novgorod. Mil.Press reported in 2018 that the vessel’s technical project based on unified modular platform was designed under Platform-DTO development work. Now the project is pending the customer’s decision. The hospital ship designed by Vympel is offered in several configurations differing by the bed capacity and complexity of medical equipment.

    Nevskoe Design Bureau presented its works as well. The matter is a number of projects based on amphibious ships with various displacement, payload and capabilities.

    Number of beds in the projects offered to the military is 50, 150, 500 and 1,000. Thus, all needs of the medical service are met. "Obviously, Russian designers and shipbuilders are able to create national hospital ships. What is critical in this case is series production and timely funding", said a top-ranking source at a USC design bureau interviewed by Mil.Press.

    In October 2018, Russian Navy’s ex-commander Admiral (Ret.) Vladimir Masorin complained that the ambulance ships had not been renewed for a long time: "In those days, the series of modular ships for auxiliary fleet was more than we could hope for".

    Currently, Russian Navy operates three Project 320 hospital ships built in Poland. They were commissioned in 1980-1990’s, and the lead ship was signed off in 1997. In total, the Soviet Union planned to obtain five ships of that type, but the last ship was not completed.

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    Post  GarryB on Sat Aug 29, 2020 10:59 am

    I would add that in an interview with the makers of the new helicopter carriers it was mentioned as a possibility that the open areas and room for taking large numbers of naval infantry for landing also makes such ships suitable for being used as hospital ships as well... they said in the design they were deciding what level of hospital equipment and medical potential it would need as a basic core for any role it might be used for and then they will look at potential to expand that if needed so that several extra ships could be built that are then used as hospital ships or landing ships or indeed a transport ship that just carries armoured forces to be deployed from a port without needing landing ships.

    The potential is that if they can make them multipurpose then they could buy rather more ships and use them for purposes as needed... if they were helicopter landing vessels only then they might only want four of them, but if they can be used to transport large armoured forces then perhaps six or 8 of them could be built... especially if there is a hospital version for disaster relief that could carry amphibious vehicles and helicopters to recover the injured and those in need of medical care as well as treat them on board the ships.

    Obviously the guy pitching this idea works for the company making the helicopter carriers, so obviously that is the ship he wants to sell, but it sounds reasonable to me.
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    Post  flamming_python on Sat Aug 29, 2020 11:39 am

    GarryB wrote:I would add that in an interview with the makers of the new helicopter carriers it was mentioned as a possibility that the open areas and room for taking large numbers of naval infantry for landing also makes such ships suitable for being used as hospital ships as well... they said in the design they were deciding what level of hospital equipment and medical potential it would need as a basic core for any role it might be used for and then they will look at potential to expand that if needed so that several extra ships could be built that are then used as hospital ships or landing ships or indeed a transport ship that just carries armoured forces to be deployed from a port without needing landing ships.

    The potential is that if they can make them multipurpose then they could buy rather more ships and use them for purposes as needed... if they were helicopter landing vessels only then they might only want four of them, but if they can be used to transport large armoured forces then perhaps six or 8 of them could be built... especially if there is a hospital version for disaster relief that could carry amphibious vehicles and helicopters to recover the injured and those in need of medical care as well as treat them on board the ships.

    Obviously the guy pitching this idea works for the company making the helicopter carriers, so obviously that is the ship he wants to sell, but it sounds reasonable to me.

    I remember in my first month of Navy service we were taken to a hospital ship for an X-Ray. It was situated in port and basically served Naval personnel in Severomorsk as I understood. Presumably it was the Svir' (Ob' class).
    Bit sad that it was the only actual naval vessel I came onboard of during my Navy days, and it wasn't even a combat vessel  Sad
    There was a proper naval hospital in the city as well of course which I ended up in later as well.

    A helicopter carrier can be anywhere depending on its mission, and providing disaster relief and medical services for local civilians or its own task force is fine, but you need dedicated hospital ships as well that you can moor in bases and zones of naval presence while your helicopter carriers are off doing other things, as well as travel together with naval task forces crossing the Arctic or Pacific.
    They are also just larger capacity, and have been used to provide assistance for 3rd world countries and evacuate refugees. A helicopter carrier you may have more urgent objectives for.

    It makes more sense to me that armament transports, tankers, salvage ships and floating hospitals would rather be constructed on the basis of a unified modular hull if possible. They are support vessels and don't have the same requirements as combat-rated ships in terms of sensors, damage control and so on; so no need to spend extra money.
    To this effect the Platform-DTO looks very promising.

    A helicopter carrier on the other hand is really a set single design rather than a family of modular designs. But a flexible and multirole one; so if you need to, you can use it for providing aid, for treating people, for transport of some goods or military supplies, for participating in search & rescue operations and so on.
    And also different combat missions; providing helicopter support to allied troops, submarine hunting, amphibious operations or transporting naval infantry.
    And you would need a number of such ships anyway just due to their versatility and usefulness
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    Post  franco on Sun Sep 06, 2020 2:09 pm

    One of the unheralded stories of the naval shipbuilding has been the upgrading of the support fleet over the last 10 years. To date:

    - 51 harbour tugs
    - 11 ocean tugs (+3 under construction)
    - 8 rescue tugs
    - 45 rescue & diving boats (+5 under construction)
    - 18 hydrographic vessels (+4 under construction)
    - 3 ocean research (+1 under construction)
    - 1 icebreaker (+1 under construction)
    - 2 intelligence ships
    - 12 harbour boats
    - 9 communication boats
    - 11 self propelled cranes (+3 under construction)
    - 2 cable ships under construction
    - 5 fuel tankers (+4 under construction)
    - 8 logistic support (+1 under construction)
    - 2 torpedo tenders (+2 under construction)
    - 2 trials ships (+1 under construction)
    - 3 firefighting ships
    - 1 training ship under construction

    In addition, 48+ patrol and fast assault craft for harbour and coastal defense.

    Edited: missed the intelligence ships

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    Post  Hole on Wed Sep 09, 2020 9:00 pm

    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 16 1388nz10
    Auxilliary vessels, Special-purpose and minor naval ships - Page 16 1388nz11
    Torpedo catcher

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    Post  GarryB on Thu Sep 10, 2020 4:51 am

    Bit sad that it was the only actual naval vessel I came onboard of during my Navy days, and it wasn't even a combat vessel

    In context I am jelly you got to wear the uniform and use the equipment... mundane crap you probably thought was boring.... Very Happy

    A helicopter carrier can be anywhere depending on its mission, and providing disaster relief and medical services for local civilians or its own task force is fine, but you need dedicated hospital ships as well that you can moor in bases and zones of naval presence while your helicopter carriers are off doing other things, as well as travel together with naval task forces crossing the Arctic or Pacific.
    They are also just larger capacity, and have been used to provide assistance for 3rd world countries and evacuate refugees. A helicopter carrier you may have more urgent objectives for.

    My understanding was that he was fishing for more ships to build, so after these first two helicopter carriers are completed it is likely they will follow through with orders for two more unless they are total dogs... because the plan was always to have four Mistrals... two for the Northern Fleet and two for the Pacific Fleet to operate in the far east and far north but also able to access the atlantic and pacific oceans...

    He said that as part of their normal design there was a medical section with beds to support injured or sick people, but obviously during an actual landing that would not be enough on its own... as you say an entire ship or more dedicated to medical purposes would be valuable.

    He was saying that the helicopter landing ships in their standard configuration are able to operate helicopters of course and also has fuel for their operation, and it has hospital facilities, which will be modern and capable but not extensive. They have to have lodgings for 1,000 naval infantry and also their armour... as well as landing ships and or hovercraft to deliver those vehicles to a distant shore.

    Without modification they can remove the four landing ships in the rear well and not flood it and put extra armoured vehicles there so for instance if they wanted to transport a lot of armoured vehicles to a location they could remove the landing ships and a lot of the helicopters and carry a lot more armoured vehicles... including on the deck if you wanted and use it as a port to port transport (note it would not be able to land armour on a beach in this condition... but of course they would know that in advance...)

    What I think he was fishing for was an order for ship number 5,6 and 7 perhaps, that might be fitted out with the lodgings for 1,000 naval infantry and all the food stores and areas to allow them to remain sane while stuck on a ship like gyms etc replaced with hospital beds for a 30K ton hospital ship... which I think you will agree would be a huge one. They could keep the helicopters and perhaps a couple of the landing ships to deliver trucks to shore for transport and of course helicopter transport as well so it doesn't have to dock and could move around if needed.

    I suspect if there is a good reason to reject the idea is perhaps that it is probably too big and that smaller but still big vessels would be a better choice... but who knows...

    It makes more sense to me that armament transports, tankers, salvage ships and floating hospitals would rather be constructed on the basis of a unified modular hull if possible. They are support vessels and don't have the same requirements as combat-rated ships in terms of sensors, damage control and so on; so no need to spend extra money.
    To this effect the Platform-DTO looks very promising.

    I like the idea of standardised designs, but I also don't like ships in combat areas that are not combat rated.... British experience in the Falklands conflict was that an exocet fired at a group of ships... the military armed ships launched chaff and flares and decoys and broke the missile lock, but the transport ships like the Atlantic Conveyer had no such protection and was hit by missiles aimed at other ships.

    A big red Plus sign is no protection and being cheap to buy is nice but if it is sunk then it is expensive because you can't use it...

    Obviously other ships around it will try to shoot down any missiles flying around... but.

    A helicopter carrier on the other hand is really a set single design rather than a family of modular designs. But a flexible and multirole one; so if you need to, you can use it for providing aid, for treating people, for transport of some goods or military supplies, for participating in search & rescue operations and so on.
    And also different combat missions; providing helicopter support to allied troops, submarine hunting, amphibious operations or transporting naval infantry.
    And you would need a number of such ships anyway just due to their versatility and usefulness

    I think you are probably right... if they produce a few extra helicopter carriers... say 6 then they will have the four they want and the extra two means each fleet can have an extra one that could be used as an extra helicopter carrier if that was needed, but could also be used with extra modules increasing its core medical capacity to allow it to be used as a hospital ship with helicopters and emergency relief stores and amphibious ground and air vehicles because in many disasters the roads might not be working and you can't have too many helicopters... it could carry a few bigger ones or smaller ones and also during peace time it could operate drones... air, sea surface, and underwater drones....

    In addition, 48+ patrol and fast assault craft for harbour and coastal defense.

    Edited: missed the intelligence ships

    And those 40 new mine countermeasures ships....

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