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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #8

    Cyberspec
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #8 - Page 21 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #8

    Post  Cyberspec Wed Sep 03, 2014 8:23 am

    Airbornewolf wrote:this is the first artillery piece ive seen in use by the anti kiev troops thats properly set-up and capable of accurate fire. but still, to get good effect on target their shots needs to be corrected two or three times before they hit the spot what they want. with the wind you see carrying away the smoke they need already to correct about two degrees to the right.

    i see a lot of firing but no correcting the aim of the gun or radio-traffic to confirm where the shells land near the intended target.

    anyway,...they seem to be good in both heavy equipment and ordnance now.


    I'd say their aim is pretty good judging by the amount of trashed Ukr. equipment we see on videos and pics...mostly destroyed by artillery.

    ...

    Regarding the T-72B3's, the feeling is that it someone's stuffed up to send them across the border.

    Anyway, the Novorus militia is lately sporting a lot of standard T-72B's...much more than they could've captured realistically.

    Also, 'Gur Khan' says the crews of the T-72B3's survived the fight/explosions. He's also trolling hard Tarasenko about the crappy Ukr. T-64's
    magnumcromagnon
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #8 - Page 21 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #8

    Post  magnumcromagnon Wed Sep 03, 2014 9:21 am

    TR1 wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    TR1 wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:It's like nobody cares that the OSCE has been monitoring the border for months lol! I'll wait for their confirmation first around certain claims, before I declare anything. Secondly I like how the people whining about the 'alleged' arms crossing the border, have never cried foul when the U.S., Britain, France publicly admit to trafficking arms in to Syria lol!

    Maybe because that is a very pathetic way of deflecting the actual subject of the thread.

    Screaming about Syria and Iraq whenever Russia's involvement comes up is just dumb.

    Flame trolling every member of this forum and claiming everyone is trolling just comes off as dumb, stop deflecting the fact that the OSCE has been monitoring the border for months and their credibility far outweighs your flimsy twitter/facebook social media-proof.

    LOL.

    My "flimsy" photographic evidence.

    OSCE is @ every inch of the border right? Smile

    OSCE still has more credibility than your confirmation bias, you went from denigrating twitter and facebook and youtube, to now staking your namesake that social media is 100% credible when it suits your agenda like a true two-faced sanctimonious hypocrite.
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    Vann7


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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #8 - Page 21 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #8

    Post  Vann7 Wed Sep 03, 2014 9:24 am

    This is the democracy that Obama ,nuland and the EU have given to Ukraine..
    How evil can Governments be to literary destroy nations with coups and poison society and children
    and teach them to become Criminals and Radicals since they born ?




    For the people like @TR1 that accused Russian media of propaganda.. about Kiev war crimes..
    From the horse mouth , listen what an Ukraine parliament deputy says about the Poroshenko Government that
    your lovely USA have installed in Power.SHe have not been afraid to tell the truth about what happens in their nation.. She says they removed a thief president to replace him for a killer of civilians women and children.
    THis is the democracy that USA with the European Union ,in special the baltic states and poland..have given to Ukraine.. how dare Russia to interfere in the genocide done by a government at their borders.



    Last edited by Vann7 on Wed Sep 03, 2014 9:56 am; edited 2 times in total
    TR1
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #8 - Page 21 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #8

    Post  TR1 Wed Sep 03, 2014 9:49 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    TR1 wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    TR1 wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:It's like nobody cares that the OSCE has been monitoring the border for months lol! I'll wait for their confirmation first around certain claims, before I declare anything. Secondly I like how the people whining about the 'alleged' arms crossing the border, have never cried foul when the U.S., Britain, France publicly admit to trafficking arms in to Syria lol!

    Maybe because that is a very pathetic way of deflecting the actual subject of the thread.

    Screaming about Syria and Iraq whenever Russia's involvement comes up is just dumb.

    Flame trolling every member of this forum and claiming everyone is trolling just comes off as dumb, stop deflecting the fact that the OSCE has been monitoring the border for months and their credibility far outweighs your flimsy twitter/facebook social media-proof.

    LOL.

    My "flimsy" photographic evidence.

    OSCE is @ every inch of the border right? Smile

    OSCE still has more credibility than your confirmation bias, you went from denigrating twitter and facebook and youtube, to now staking your namesake that social media is 100% credible when it suits your agenda like a true two-faced sanctimonious hypocrite.

    Photography speaks far more than your typical blather. Sorry truth hurts.
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #8 - Page 21 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #8

    Post  TR1 Wed Sep 03, 2014 9:57 am

    Cyberspec wrote:
    Airbornewolf wrote:this is the first artillery piece ive seen in use by the anti kiev troops thats properly set-up and capable of accurate fire. but still, to get good effect on target their shots needs to be corrected two or three times before they hit the spot what they want. with the wind you see carrying away the smoke they need already to correct about two degrees to the right.

    i see a lot of firing but no correcting the aim of the gun or radio-traffic to confirm where the shells land near the intended target.

    anyway,...they seem to be good in both heavy equipment and ordnance now.


    I'd say their aim is pretty good judging by the amount of trashed Ukr. equipment we see on videos and pics...mostly destroyed by artillery.

    ...

    Regarding the T-72B3's, the feeling is that it someone's stuffed up to send them across the border.

    Anyway, the Novorus militia is lately sporting a lot of standard T-72B's...much more than they could've captured realistically.

    Also, 'Gur Khan' says the crews of the T-72B3's survived the fight/explosions. He's also trolling hard Tarasenko about the crappy Ukr. T-64's

    Yes, it is obvious they got (IMO 100%) most of those T-72s from TOTALLY NOT RUSSIAN (TM) sources. Why they had to send B3 and not just T-72B is anyone's guess.

    Two/Three of the B3s were captured by the Ukrainians, and it looked like the sep crews bailed out before taking serious damage. The captured tanks were later seen and with fair certainty (though not 100% that these are the same vehicles) were destroyed when crewed/recently possed by the Ukrainians.

    What is worrying is the claim in the article that Russian contract servicemen were captured (though potentially rescued when the Cauldron collapsed in the past several days) along with the tanks.

    Tarsenko and Khlopotov have been trolling each other on T-64/T-72 for ages now, the best advice I can give is ignore either on the respective sore subjects.

    Specially for Van:
    http://gurkhan.blogspot.com/2014/09/blog-post.html
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #8 - Page 21 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #8

    Post  KomissarBojanchev Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:02 am

    TR1 hasn't given any eveidence beyond reasonable doubt that the photos here are from east ukraine and that nothing has been photoshopped or propped. I'd trust OSCE this time on wether there are arms transfers more than some internet dude with temper issues.

    Instead of insulting us come on show us, give us accurate explanations why absolutely nothing has been photoshopped, propped and NATO never gives any reasonable evidence whenever it whines about russian arms transfers.
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    Post  TR1 Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:06 am

    I already did, between the T-64s, T-72s and what have you. All of ru.net (at least the credible sites, like Otvaga, balancers) and credible posters on it believe what they see with their own eyes as well. And these are mostly pro-Seperatist forums.

    The fact that you guys are in denial is not my problem.
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #8 - Page 21 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #8

    Post  KomissarBojanchev Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:06 am

    TR1 wrote:
    Cyberspec wrote:
    Airbornewolf wrote:this is the first artillery piece ive seen in use by the anti kiev troops thats properly set-up and capable of accurate fire. but still, to get good effect on target their shots needs to be corrected two or three times before they hit the spot what they want. with the wind you see carrying away the smoke they need already to correct about two degrees to the right.

    i see a lot of firing but no correcting the aim of the gun or radio-traffic to confirm where the shells land near the intended target.

    anyway,...they seem to be good in both heavy equipment and ordnance now.


    I'd say their aim is pretty good judging by the amount of trashed Ukr. equipment we see on videos and pics...mostly destroyed by artillery.

    ...

    Regarding the T-72B3's, the feeling is that it someone's stuffed up to send them across the border.

    Anyway, the Novorus militia is lately sporting a lot of standard T-72B's...much more than they could've captured realistically.

    Also, 'Gur Khan' says the crews of the T-72B3's survived the fight/explosions. He's also trolling hard Tarasenko about the crappy Ukr. T-64's

    Yes, it is obvious they got (IMO 100%) most of those T-72s from TOTALLY NOT RUSSIAN (TM) sources. Why they had to send B3 and not just T-72B is anyone's guess.

    Two/Three of the B3s were captured by the Ukrainians, and it looked like the sep crews bailed out before taking serious damage. The captured tanks were later seen and with fair certainty (though not 100% that these are the same vehicles) were destroyed when crewed/recently possed by the Ukrainians.

    What is worrying is the claim in the article that Russian contract servicemen were captured (though potentially rescued when the Cauldron collapsed in the past several days) along with the tanks.

    Tarsenko and Khlopotov have been trolling each other on T-64/T-72 for ages now, the best advice I can give is ignore either on the respective sore subjects.

    Specially for Van:
    http://gurkhan.blogspot.com/2014/09/blog-post.html
    Where and from who has this intricately explained by you combat action  reported? You're like like telepath, from some piece of tracked exploded metal you can completely tell what it did, who had it and how it was destroyed.
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    Post  TR1 Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:07 am

    No, I just have a grasp of the Russian language and can read.

    That is enough Smile .

    The fighting is very actively covered on Russian forums. All I do is read, and not make up wild conspiracy theories to disprove photographic evidence.
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    Post  KomissarBojanchev Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:09 am

    TR1 wrote:I already did, between the T-64s, T-72s and what have you. All of ru.net (at least the credible sites, like Otvaga, balancers) and credible posters on it believe what they see with their own eyes as well. And these are mostly pro-Seperatist forums.

    The fact that you guys are in denial is not my problem.
    No all you have said so far in the last few pages is "Muh facts are completely right and your stupid fucks for questioning me"
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    Post  Vann7 Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:17 am

    The T-72 tank was not even operated by pro RUssian militia .. but by the NAzis DOnbass Batallion.. Laughing

    And the RUptly media info says it was destroyed their group with their tanks by anti kiev governments.
    I can't believe for a second that a professional mercenary will abandon a T-72b3 tank if ambushed and run on foot..
    make more sense to leave in the tank that is faster.. even less than such tanks will travel alone without a strong force. It neither makes sense for Russia to give such tanks to amateurs . What will had made sense is give Tanks Ukraine army also had.. There were several T-72s they had..from Romania and others, and also T-80s.. should have been no difficult for Russia to get a tank that could have done the job and not raise suspicious that Russia is supplying tanks.. Neither makes sense send their best hardware to Ukraine when there are Western Spies that can capture the technology in the ATO operation. Im not convinced!

    @TR1

    ahahaha check the comments.. FAke!!   Very Happy


    And where APCs destroyed? Where BMD? In the photo only tanks.
    What kind of tanks?
    Fake, like.
    Ukrainian tankostroy able riveted 2-3-4 copies of the T-72B3.
    At this level of rates at this level of opposition to make a copy of the tank can be easily.
    Provocation skillfully prepared and furnished.
    It is because of this video espresso tv mustard quality, precisely because it kind of removed.
    The video perfectly clear that the sight is not on the 72B3
    I see no reason for the discharge, cries of panic.

    So we have a Tank that look like T-72b3 with different modification.. and people saying that Ukraine have the capabilities to produce copies of T-72b3.. even if the copies are merely cosmetic on the outside ,it will serve for the job that was to claim a Russian Invasion.  Really @ TR1  if kiev went as Far as to shot down a civilians airliner from MAlasyans airlines ,for propaganda against the Rebels and Russia.. they will not mind to go a produce a copy of a superficial copy of a T-72b3 and later use it as "Proof" that Russia invaded them. And what kind of Rpg shot down a T-72b3? Syrian crappy tanks can sustain 7-8 hits using older versions.. how can an T-72b3 collapse by an RPG hit?

    The turret is not even damaged..so was NOT hit by a top attack weapon..A T-72b3 with latest generation reactive armor should have no problem to receive 10 hit of RPGs.. and still keep going. There is even Syrian tank commanders interviewed who said is Rare when an Rpg destroy a T-72 tank.. that they are strong.. and their only problem was with mines.. a T-72b3 destroyed by 2 rpgs impossible.

    check this..
    Two Syrian T-72 tanks taking MUltiple hits..each one and they do not break..  
    and this ones barely have protection.


    Why is that Alqaeda in Syria can release full films of the tanks they attack.. but in Ukraine all that we get
    is a couple of still shots of weird configurations of T-72b3 tanks.. with turrent outside?  I have never seen in Syrian conflict a tank with the turrent blow up that way.. how lucky.. that in Ukraine the turrets always land in perfect position with face looking upward. Very Happy  the turrent travels a big distance and by coincidence lands perfectly in a way that you can take a photo and recognize it. Wink

    I have seen hundreds of tanks videos in Syria being attacked By Kornets ,by Rpg-7 ,Rpg-29 and NEVER saw any of them its turret to blow up.. that was only in IRAQ war holywood movies discrediting Russian tanks but not in reality.  In reality the worse thing that happens to a T-72 tank is explode throwing a flame upward if hit ammo ,but the turret do not fly like superman. the small warhead of an rpg do not have such power.


    take a look what happens when a crappy T-72 is hit by an RPG-29.


    The turret stays perfectly in place.. even after being hit its ammo by a powerful RPG-29
    and someone even manage to escape.. Smile

    Honestly dude you have been duped, this all looks like Economic PROPAGANDA war.. NATO defense industries will benefit Enormously discrediting Russian tanks.. Wink  And you have been fooled like most people.  zero Russian Tanks in Ukraine.. at least not modern T-72b3.

    the only tanks that its turret can blow are old T-62's , and i will have said maybe the first T-72 in IRAQ but the Syrian war experience tells me that never happen.  War is business.. and discrediting Russian Tanks
    capabilities will be Big Business ,many Billions of $$,  for NATO defense industries since no longer they will want to buy them. because of they "failing in Ukraine" but not knowing that those tanks were not the original ones made
    by Russia..  So lets summarize..
    1)Turret blow up long distance and land perfectly with for a photo.
    2) Tanks that breaks with just 2 miserable Rpg hits. Rolling Eyes  
    3) Tanks captured not from Russia but from Ukies..
    4)Where are the prisoners? Why not show a picture of all the survivors? Wink
    5)No videos? just a couple of still shots?
    6)absolutely makes no sense to send a T-72b3.. that will be completely stupid..from a business point of view, since upgraded T-72 sells very well still today. If Russia wanted to help they will send Tanks more closer to the ones that Syria use.. or better T-80s that Russia can make.. and save face...just in case is destroyed the blame will not be for RUssia defense industry but to Ukraine made tanks. Wink

    The durability of the T-72 tanks was proven in Syrian war.. to the point that people in Annanews media have been
    saying that RPG-7 are pretty much Useless against upgraded T-72s.. and Never the turret fly and land in perfect position for a photo.. LOL  but here we have in Ukraine mysterious tanks that cannot sustain 2 hits by RPG and break..and always the turret blow up.. Very Happy  

    edit update..
    @TR1  LOLOLOL
    Check your so called "Evidence" of Russian invasion.. the man who "survived" in the 2 shots he have exactly the
    same pose..with his left arm high.. but the first shot the smoke is different to the second shot. LOLOLOL
    He is even at the same distance of the turret of the tank while maintaining the same pose.. LOL
    SO basically it a bullshit photoshop fake photo.. the author of the site should be questioned why he did it..
    and who paid him.. as i told you.. Information war is what you witness.. for NATO it is extremely important ,
    to show Russian soldiers killed with their tanks being destroyed..to provoke unrest in Russia and discredit their tanks.. so no longer they are bought .. Very Happy   The Ruptly still shot simply shows an Ukraine modified tank ,that looks like T-72b3.. but the scene was staged ..before Ruptly arrive to the place and ukies were in control of it.. The goal was simply to discredit Russian tanks.. but is an staged scene.. a setup.. to dupe people into thinking Russian tanks still have turrets that blow up and Russia cannot fix that..in a decade and also that also Russia sent their tanks to ukraine.  But Syria experience shows that never happens. T-72s do not blow their turret like superman.. that was a holywood movie what we saw in IRAQ.

     i also wonder if it is physically possible at all for a turret of a t-72 to blow up and land perfectly in the ground..


    Last edited by Vann7 on Wed Sep 03, 2014 12:13 pm; edited 2 times in total
    Werewolf
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #8 - Page 21 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #8

    Post  Werewolf Wed Sep 03, 2014 11:22 am

    Not siding on this one with Vann7


    Yes, I am. The willful ignorance and stupidity displayed by many members in this thread is mind-numbing.
    You guys should probably start with that before trying to argue with me.

    Here, I am arguing for what is undeniable, obvious fact.

    You are talking about obvious facts but are the one who lives in deniability. For you there are no NAzis in Ukraine and no nazis in the government, the Wolfs Angel rute is just one proof for several from government deployed Nazi brigades like OZOV brigade.

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #8 - Page 21 Ukraine-nazi-emblems-400x205

    Also if that is so easy to proof than please post me the actual video of the beheading of those two american actors. The proof is up to you since there is no video with beheading and you claim it is an Obvious fact...find me just one video.

    Nor does Kiev have the money to fake it.

    I'm not saying they are faking one, but they certainly get the money for all Propaganda war they need. They can't send some fresh bread to their Ukraine soldiers in East but are alunching right now several Propaganda campaigns at once like Ukriane Today.
    And that money comes obviously from US, it is not Ukraines war it is US war, they may don't give a shit how well people live there, but they certainly give a shit that this war keeps going to cause problems to Russia and drive EU into US hands, that is why they will continue sending money.

    And would probably lead to Putin developing an army of domestic enemies.

    Ohh yes of course, Putin is to blame again.... TR1 a broken record. US starts a war but Putin is to blame, you are one of those who will be knocked out by reality when it catches you and most probably never recover from it.

    Yes the potential for comedic effect in this thread is too much to ignore.

    That really summes up the last months of what you have posted except of two posts with something to proof, the rest was "PUTIN evil....here only idiots...me expert"


    I know why I am. Because this thread is a circlejerk of Russia-strong tards for the most part.

    You are attacked, because you act like you are the only person that knows something about russia but in reality you have a higher ignorance level then most of here combined. You blame Putin for Ukraine crisis and you think that he is actually to blame. You are not living in reality when it comes to who is to blame. US can't do wrong...Putin did MH17 even tho it is proven to be Ukraine, Putin is to blame because there is genocide in Ukraine, ignoring CIA in Rada, Biden in Ukropy oil company....yes Putin everywhere and in your closet stealing socks out of your dryer, he is tossing your toastbreads on the buttered side every morning.

    You really have no freaking idea when it comes to geopolitics. I have a little respect for your knowledge of some military hardware, but on level of politics you are plain out not the brightest and one sided like no one else here. I really think your brain capacity shrinks as soon you even think about Putin.

    I hope T-90s appear in Ukraine next with giant flags of Putin, just to see Van go: COULD BE NATO PHOTOSHOP!

    Well in that case every normal person would assume that is some parody or actually PS. Something of that would be really odd more of parody than anything else. Very Happy

    The reason I bring up these tanks (while not caring to actually discuss the situation here) is because I constantly see people crying about Western sanctions and what have you, and demanding they back up their statements of Russia's involvement with proof. Well, there it is. It has been undeniable for months.

    The sanctions have absolutley nothing to do with russias involvement, that is just plain stupid and you show only how uneducated you are. If it was
    about sanctioning russia because of their involvement why would the US overthrow Yanukovich and then create a civil war. The sanctions are only
    there because russia dares to pursue BRICKS and end of petrodollar.
    US did not give a shit and not even 2 seconds of thinking of half a million children died in Iraq and you don't give a shit either you clearified it already and US most certainly does not give a shit about anyones countries people, sanctions have only one purpose showing off who the bully is for anyone who dares to become independent from the US Dollar hegemony.

    If Putin is still around, then it doesn't matter who I vote for.
    Not enough Khordovoskies and Nemzovs around with popularity to destroy evil russia so you could realistically vote for them?

    Well, it is the same thing here in America, but worse!
    No, not even close.

    You are right on this, US has only a speudo elections with two parties that serve all the same corporations and in the end you don't have anyone else close to Putin that actualy could bring some normality into chaotic US...since we know Ron Paul won't win they will make sure of that with their electronic election machines that are manipulated and forbbiden in some countries.

    Screaming about Syria and Iraq whenever Russia's involvement comes up is just dumb.

    Screaming about Putin to blame whenever US starts a war and its involvement comes up is just dumb.

    OSCE is monitoring the borders.. and they have said clearly that no russian hardware have crossed the border.

    Well that is not about OSCE...since there is no boarder they can cross in between whenever they want, enough space other from the obvious roads and checkpoints. They can't observe entire boarder only checkpoints.


    And these are mostly pro-Seperatist forums.

    Yes, you are right that here most people would side with Seperatists/Rebels rather than with Nazis...but you are in denial of that there any Nazis in Ukraine and at the same time calling others conspiracy nutheads...You really get neckbreaked when reality hits you, pal.


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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #8 - Page 21 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #8

    Post  Vann7 Wed Sep 03, 2014 12:17 pm

    Notice wolf the photoshoped man..  look the smoke is different ,different time.. but the man stand in the same position with left hand raised.. he was simply inserted in the photo it seems with an editor. Very Happy

    Time 1   (time in this one is 12:50)
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #8 - Page 21 7a2dba874f16

    Time 2  (time here is 12:49)
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #8 - Page 21 480359_1019152

    https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fgurkhan.blogspot.com%2F2014%2F09%2Fblog-post.html&edit-text=&act=url

    look at the time of the photo..What was that?

    The smoke change dramatically in 1 second .notice what looks like a big rock at the right.the wind direction/smoke change dramatically in just one second different but the man do not move?  remain standing in the same pose of the first photo and at the same distance of the tank ?  lol1   In time 1 ,The smoke/wind effect of the rock vs the tank at the left even go in totally opposite as if the wind was flowing to the left for the tank and to the right for the rock . breaking the laws of physics. Clearly indication of a composted image and a perfect example of photoshop.. Very Happy

    Sorry fake as hell.. and the tank is Ukrainian modification. not Russian..that is easy to move..That the ukies seems are having fun to take photos and release on the net..as "proof" Russian tanks . neither T-72s turrets do not fly like superman 2 times in a day and land perfectly . we have now 2 turrets that fly.. but in Syrian war never saw any T-72 to blow up its turret.. IT was a 100% staged scene as simple as that... and in the ruptly scene ,the cameras came when the scene was already made by the ukies.  Very Happy    and where are the Russian soldiers? no more photos left to take at least a picture of the lucky survivors?  Smile

    Go to the comments people say is fake....
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #8 - Page 21 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #8

    Post  nemrod Wed Sep 03, 2014 1:20 pm



    http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/386596/ex-kgb-general-russia-has-already-won-joel-gehrke


    Ex-KGB General: Russia Has Already Won

    Russia has already won “the real victory”​ in Ukraine, according to a former KGB general living in the United States.

    “The Crimea is now Russian, that’s very important,” Oleg Kalugin, one of the top Soviet spies in the United States during the Cold War, told National Review Online. “Southeast of Ukraine, that’s part of the general battle between the Russians and Ukrainians, but it’s not as crucial as the real victory and pride of Russia — the Crimea, I mean.”

    The Thursday-morning phone interview took place in the context of media reports that Russia had invaded Ukraine, but Kalugin reiterated that he does not believe Russian president Vladimir Putin wants annex another region of the country.

    “I believe they’re just trying to do their best to keep as much as they can of pro-Russian population and communities in that area; but Russia does not plan, I am sure, to take the southeastern part of Ukraine just like they did with the Crimea,” Kalugin said.

    “It will certainly do it’s best to provide secure access to the Crimea through that part of Ukraine, because otherwise the Crimea can only be accessed by the Black Sea, by water, and this is not the safest way,” he added.

    Kalugin said he doubts Ukrainian president Petro Poroshenko’s claims that “Russian troops were brought into Ukraine.”

    “For political leaders, it’s important to maintain their stance and make people feel that things are still quite dangerous while he may know well that things are going to a peaceful solution,” Kalugin said. “Russia will not move any [troops] forward while western nations are alerted” due to the risk of expanded economic sanctions.

    “It’s not in the interest of Putin,” Kalugin said. “His position as of today is fairly strong in the country, in his own country, so why put it at risk by moving further?”

    Although Kalugin expects the Russians to keep a “low-profile” in Ukraine, he agreed that Putin has an interest in fomenting unrest in the country by providing weaponry and perhaps special forces assistance to the separatists.

    “The tactical victory would be most likely the pro-Russian forces in that part of Ukraine will eventually triumph and Russia will be satisfied,” he said. “It will not necessarily be exactly to a Russian notion of how things should be, but at least it will not be pro-NATO, pro-Western.”

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    Post  Mindstorm Wed Sep 03, 2014 1:39 pm

    I believe that reposting that can be useful at this point.....



    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-01/ex-nsa-director-us-intelligence-veterans-write-open-letter-merkel-avoid-all-out-ukra


    Not merely one operative (obviously not even theirs.....) has ever truly believed even only for one instant that the.....grossly doctored ,when not openly inconsistent.... "definitive proofs" shown by C. Powell at Security United Nations to justify the NATO's War against Iraq was  related in any way to reality;  not even one of them has ever truly believed in the rediculous "definitive proofs" of the Ghouta "chemical attack" by part of evil Assad, conducted in plain presence of ONU observers , in Syria just the August of last year (at the UN Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons are at today deposed two our stricly scientific and experimental-heavy studies ,more than 200 pages full of OPCW-protocols-validated specific and circumstantial data on the chemical attack in Syria, pointing univocally toward the production of the harming elements and delivery means by part of the islamic terrorist groups that was operating in the area....we are still waiting, at today, even only a single ripped page with any kind of scientific validated data deposed here by part of US collagues...enough said )  

    Not operative today , exactly like in the past, truly believe ,behind closed doors, even only for one instant to the ghostly "column of Russian tanks" destroyed at day rate by Ukraine Army or to the presence of Russian Army's operative brigades with...... very strangely Very Happy ....only few sample of very up-to-date "sensible" and easily traceable equipment , but devoid instead of the most basic standard engineering, logistical , electronic and defensive countermeasure and surveillance/command vehicles that should go along those operative Russian Army brigades. Very Happy  


    Let me ,for one instant ,to follow the narrative of those alleged pics showing brand new T-72Б3, supposedly operated by the brigades of Russian Army actively fighting on Ukraine soil and ,allegedly, captured and/or destroyed by Ukraine's Army or National guard forces.

    Those two destroyed/abandoned.... "T-72Б3".... should ,in theirs narrative, pertain to the Russian Army Regiments present in Ukraine soil and actively fighting for local militia ; those Russian Army's MBT should have been ,supposedly ,destroyed or abandoned and not retrieved by theirs crew just .......while Dombass battalion was literally routing out of a encircled cauldron, running literally for theirs lives , near Ilovaisk;  a true carnage resulting in more than 100 KIA ,about 200 POW and where dozen and dozen of Donbass Battalion's APC and truck lie, destroyed or abandoned,just near to those two supposed "Russian Army's brand new T-72Б3 and all of them pointing out of the area of fighting  "....Laughing


    Even more them have shown a pic of a supposed "T-72Б3" in theirs possession.
    But that is simply perfect !!  


    I image ,therefore ,that for them will not represent any problem to open ,in live video, the elements of the new "Сосна-У" FCS and show the precise internal composition and arrangement of thermal focal array , the new processing units,  the type and allocation of the modules of the new ballistic CPU, the internal design of new gunner display etc...
    That will not represent ,obviously, any kind of problem for Ukraine authorities ,because those are not few samples of theirs T-72's, grossly and purposely modified to appear as Russian Army T-72Б3 , oh not !!! Razz  
    Those are instead real T-72Б3s with working "Сосна-У" and them can prove it easily, in this way, to the entire world and without any fear to be clamorously and ruinously debunked , among the laughers of entire world PO community by Russian authorities with undeniable diamond-hard proofs..... oh not !!!   Laughing Laughing :


    "Photos can be worth a thousand words; they can be used also to deceive".


    Last edited by Mindstorm on Wed Sep 03, 2014 2:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  gregoire Wed Sep 03, 2014 2:15 pm

    This forum is desperately in need of an "ignore" button. Just to keep things relevant. Just a reaction in general. Not pointed at anyone specific.
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #8 - Page 21 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #8

    Post  fragmachine Wed Sep 03, 2014 2:48 pm

    TR1 wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    TR1 wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:It's like nobody cares that the OSCE has been monitoring the border for months lol! I'll wait for their confirmation first around certain claims, before I declare anything. Secondly I like how the people whining about the 'alleged' arms crossing the border, have never cried foul when the U.S., Britain, France publicly admit to trafficking arms in to Syria lol!

    Maybe because that is a very pathetic way of deflecting the actual subject of the thread.

    Screaming about Syria and Iraq whenever Russia's involvement comes up is just dumb.

    Flame trolling every member of this forum and claiming everyone is trolling just comes off as dumb, stop deflecting the fact that the OSCE has been monitoring the border for months and their credibility far outweighs your flimsy twitter/facebook social media-proof.

    LOL.

    My "flimsy" photographic evidence.

    OSCE is @ every inch of the border right? Smile

    Obviously, CNN is every inch of the Ukrainian-Russian border. Hope that what comes from you are just pathetic american jokes?
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    Post  Firebird Wed Sep 03, 2014 2:55 pm

    What are people's views on the timeframes for a ceasefire.
    The Ukr forces are nicely surrounded in numerous areas.
    Perhaps they are 1, 2, 2.5 weeks from a forced surrender.
    That would mean further weakening of the Ukr forces, AND more hardware for the Resistance.

    I wonder if the ceasefire will actually occur within x days or weeks? Or whether both sides are looking for a
    more immediate ceasefire.

    What I wouldn't want is for Willy Wanker from the Chocolate Factory to use a ceasefire AGAIN to regroup and avoid losses/capture of equipment.
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Wed Sep 03, 2014 3:42 pm

    TR1 wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    TR1 wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    TR1 wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:It's like nobody cares that the OSCE has been monitoring the border for months lol! I'll wait for their confirmation first around certain claims, before I declare anything. Secondly I like how the people whining about the 'alleged' arms crossing the border, have never cried foul when the U.S., Britain, France publicly admit to trafficking arms in to Syria lol!

    Maybe because that is a very pathetic way of deflecting the actual subject of the thread.

    Screaming about Syria and Iraq whenever Russia's involvement comes up is just dumb.

    Flame trolling every member of this forum and claiming everyone is trolling just comes off as dumb, stop deflecting the fact that the OSCE has been monitoring the border for months and their credibility far outweighs your flimsy twitter/facebook social media-proof.

    LOL.

    My "flimsy" photographic evidence.

    OSCE is @ every inch of the border right? Smile

    OSCE still has more credibility than your confirmation bias, you went from denigrating twitter and facebook and youtube, to now staking your namesake that social media is 100% credible when it suits your agenda like a true two-faced sanctimonious hypocrite.

    Photography speaks far more than your typical blather. Sorry truth hurts.

    LOL pathetic, obviously the OSCE has hundreds of times more resources with actual technical specialists which holds more credibility than your imaginary overnight Holiday Inn Express forensics degree, they're actual monitoring the border day-in-day-out for months obviously something you haven't done, but that won't deter you from clutching your straws and clinging for dear life to your brainless strawman, you solipsistic suffering charlatan.
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    Post  Big_Gazza Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:17 pm

    Firebird wrote:What are people's views on the timeframes for a ceasefire.
    The Ukr forces are nicely surrounded in numerous areas.
    Perhaps they are 1, 2, 2.5 weeks from a forced surrender.
    That would mean further weakening of the Ukr forces, AND more hardware for the Resistance.

    I wonder if the ceasefire will actually occur within x days or weeks? Or whether both sides are looking for a
    more immediate ceasefire.

    What I wouldn't want is for Willy Wanker from the Chocolate Factory to use a ceasefire AGAIN to regroup and avoid losses/capture of equipment.

    NO CEASEFIRE. NO RESPITE. NO MERCY.

    These filthy Nazi bastards have made their bed among the scorched bones of their hapless victims in Donetsk and Lugansk, and there can be no forgiveness for their unspeakable crimes. A ceasefire with these evil scum with military forces still in place to threaten the people of Novorossiya is UNACCEPTABLE. They must be driven out past the limits of the DPR/LPR, or else ruthlessly expunged in combat like the murderous bastards that they are.

    I must admit that I've had a few drinks tonight while conversing with people of like mind, but a somewhat elevated BAC does not explain my rage at what is transpiring in Eastern Ukraine. This misbegotten conflict is being driven by a deliberately inhumane and immoral policy hatched in the US and NATO capitals, all in the unholy cause of geopolitical hegemony and an unbridled lust for wealth and full-spectrum dominance over the peoples that dwell upon of this 3rd rock of the average G-type star we orbit. The endless selfishness and greed of the EU political and financial capitalist elite have led to this impasse and they are FULLY to blame. I may be an Anglo-Saxon by birth, but by God Above I renounce any loyalty I ever had to these jackals. I'm not ashamed to nail my colours to the pole and declare my personal allegiance to Novorossiya in this struggle for freedom and deliverance from the festering hatred and spiritual corruption of Nazism and US/EU/NATO aggression. I'm too old to fight, but fuck I will fight the infowar with every fibre of my being.

    THESE NAZI BASTARDS WILL NOT BE PERMITTED ANY VICTORY OF ANY SORT OVER THE JUMBLED CORPSES OF THE GOOD PEOPLE OF DONETSK AND LUGANSK!
    Big_Gazza
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #8 - Page 21 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #8

    Post  Big_Gazza Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:17 pm

    Firebird wrote:What are people's views on the timeframes for a ceasefire.
    The Ukr forces are nicely surrounded in numerous areas.
    Perhaps they are 1, 2, 2.5 weeks from a forced surrender.
    That would mean further weakening of the Ukr forces, AND more hardware for the Resistance.

    I wonder if the ceasefire will actually occur within x days or weeks? Or whether both sides are looking for a
    more immediate ceasefire.

    What I wouldn't want is for Willy Wanker from the Chocolate Factory to use a ceasefire AGAIN to regroup and avoid losses/capture of equipment.

    NO CEASEFIRE. NO RESPITE. NO MERCY.

    These filthy Nazi bastards have made their bed among the scorched bones of their hapless victims in Donetsk and Lugansk, and there can be no forgiveness for their unspeakable crimes. A ceasefire with these evil scum with military forces still in place to threaten the people of Novorossiya is UNACCEPTABLE. They must be driven out past the limits of the DPR/LPR, or else ruthlessly expunged in combat like the murderous bastards that they are.

    I must admit that I've had a few drinks tonight while conversing with people of like mind, but a somewhat elevated BAC does not explain my rage at what is transpiring in Eastern Ukraine. This misbegotten conflict is being driven by a deliberately inhumane and immoral policy hatched in the US and NATO capitals, all in the unholy cause of geopolitical hegemony and an unbridled lust for wealth and full-spectrum dominance over the peoples that dwell upon of this 3rd rock of the average G-type star we orbit. The endless selfishness and greed of the EU political and financial capitalist elite have led to this impasse and they are FULLY to blame. I may be an Anglo-Saxon by birth, but by God Above I renounce any loyalty I ever had to these jackals. I'm not ashamed to nail my colours to the pole and declare my personal allegiance to Novorossiya in this struggle for freedom and deliverance from the festering hatred and spiritual corruption of Nazism and US/EU/NATO aggression. I'm too old to fight, but fuck I will fight the infowar with every fibre of my being.

    THESE NAZI BASTARDS WILL NOT BE PERMITTED ANY VICTORY OF ANY SORT OVER THE JUMBLED CORPSES OF THE GOOD PEOPLE OF DONETSK AND LUGANSK!
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    Post  Regular Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:18 pm

    TR1 wrote:The Situation in the Ukraine. #8 - Page 21 23.1409683760

    NOT a T-72B3 NOT destroyed in Ukraine.

    Red bull gives You wings. I wonder how was it smacked? Not good for marketing. T-64 and especially Bulat eally showed themselves like shit tanks in this conflict, now T-72 are getting slack. It's not the first B3 nuked I see. What are the chances it was seps manning them? Maybe it was Donbass battalion tank Neutral
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    Post  Regular Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:29 pm

    Vann7 wrote:

    Here.. Turret pops in a second.
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    Post  gregoire Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:29 pm

    I truly hope this "civil war" (it's something else but how can you name this slaughter against civilians who are fighting back) will end shortly and I'd like to see those evil kiev-junta bastards punished. I'd pay to see that movie.
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    Post  Hannibal Barca Wed Sep 03, 2014 6:10 pm

    I afraid that Putin will make the same mistakes like done with Georgia. This job really need to go through until the very end.
    Zionists Neocons and co. are like pit-bulls they keep coming back until totally beaten.

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