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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #8

    TheGeorgian
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    Post  TheGeorgian Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:56 pm

    Werewolf wrote:

    Sure whatever you consider a suck-sess.

    See it as you want, but it's simply absurd and funny when someone tries to mock on your mistakes, when he himself has an ugly past and a giant sceleton in his closet. How much of undisclosed secret little Georgia might possibly have compared to you .... ? anyhow, I'm tired of this constant self justifications and accusations battle. History shows you the facts and there is nothing more to say. It's just redicilous.
    Mike E
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    Post  Mike E Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:57 pm

    TheGeorgian wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:

    Sure whatever you consider a suck-sess.

    See it as you want, but it's simply absurd and funny when someone tries to mock on your mistakes, when he himself has an ugly past and a giant sceleton in his closet. How much of undisclosed secret little Georgia might possibly have compared to you .... ? anyhow, I'm tired of this constant self justifications and accusations battle. History shows you the facts and there is nothing more to say. It's just redicilous.
    What? That really doesn't make much sense... Anyway,  we're talking about Ukraine here, Georgia is a thing of the past!
    Werewolf
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    Post  Werewolf Sat Aug 30, 2014 12:06 am

    TheGeorgian wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:

    Sure whatever you consider a suck-sess.

    See it as you want, but it's simply absurd and funny when someone tries to mock on your mistakes, when he himself has an ugly past and a giant sceleton in his closet. How much of undisclosed secret little Georgia might possibly have compared to you .... ? anyhow, I'm tired of this constant self justifications and accusations battle. History shows you the facts and there is nothing more to say. It's just redicilous.

    You really asking me as a person? I surely can't compete with Georgia in atrocities... Yes it is ridiculous and i will keep mentioning it till rest of time so you get a feeling how it feels to be german getting poked with shit that happened long before i was even born, did not even have any ancestors who committed anything. Well you on the other hand you at least are in the timeline and you are not as disaproving of the doing as you should be.
    sepheronx
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    Post  sepheronx Sat Aug 30, 2014 12:42 am

    TR1 comment about he rather be living in a NATO allied nation than Russian.

    Well, go leave Russia then.

    that being said, NATO allied nations are not all that well to do.  Poland isn't, neither is Latvia and Lithuania.  Add in shambled economic nations like Italy, Portugal and Spain.  High unemployment and little development.  Numbers are on paper but reality is on the ground.  NATO nations have nothing to do with economics, that is EU.  Corruption?  Wasn't Bulgarian President overthrown recently due to corruption?  Same happened to Romania.  Maybe it is just a eastern Europe thing, but corruption exists.  Russia would be one of the least corrupt nations if it just changes what is corruption, like US did.  Lobbying is now no longer corruption, as an example.  CEO's are not oligarches.  Etc. etc etc.

    Anyway, Belarus isn't a heaven that is for sure.  But listening to another member on MP.Net whom is from Belarus and traveled, he quite likes home.  Everyone has a job and has the basic necessities.  Something that does not exist out here.  And yet, Belarussians travel more too.  Guess they do indeed have money.

    I mean, France, Germany and the likes, yeah, I would rather live there too.  But these nations have more to do with their economies and nothing to do with NATO.  Good leadership.  Kazakhstan is doing quite well.  Russian other partners whom would be considered allies or friends like India (Modi's words, not mine), is getting better and better, and one of the fastest growing nations.  Seems the fastest growing nations are not friendly to USA.  Poor ass countries whom cant handle themselves like Ukraine, are.

    Got that off my chest.

    If a nation has to rely on prostitution and illegal drug trade as their GDP, I wouldn't want them as my ally or friend.  But unfortunately, I live in the commonwealth of that nation.

    It appears that NATO won't push Ukraine to join. I think it has to do with the fact that many EU nations that are part of NATO are not interested in having a military partner that is hostile to the bear. So instead, they may be seeking a none NATO alliance with USA. Go figure.

    I hope they get it. Simply because, I hope that Russia eventually just turns off the gas on them, and they are left to rot on their own. And eventually, Ukrainians will realize they were fucking stupid. Why replace one Oligarch with another? Instead of seeking someone to take care of them (NATO/EU), they should have used their talents and industry to actually develop themselves. I can't blame eastern Ukrainians for rising up and going to war with their western neighbors.
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #8 - Page 8 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #8

    Post  TheGeorgian Sat Aug 30, 2014 1:04 am

    Werewolf wrote:
    You really asking me as a person?

    No. I am not asking you en persona. That wouldn't make any sense, why you even assuming that ?

    .... i will keep mentioning it till rest of time so you get a feeling how it feels to be german getting poked with shit that happened long before i was even born, did not even have any ancestors who committed anything.[/b]


    oh woooow, the amount of stupid in this one actualy made my nose bleed. So I have to assume you don't even know the basic difference between two entirely different events. So let me get this straight. you want someone to feel just like you ( Germany responsible for WW2 ) because he comes from a country that experienced civil war and brutal ethnic cleansing against his own people .... ? I am sorry, but in order to preserve my brain health, I have to refuse your offer Very Happy

    Well you on the other hand you at least are in the timeline and you are not as disaproving of the doing as you should be.

    You should be actualy demoted for that, because it's obvious trolling when I've allready stated my view on such events and crimes in general, including shelling of civilians in Ukraine.

    About Putin.

    I'd rather have him as Russia's president than any of the morons in the Russian goverment. Some of them would have already suggested preemtive strike against Europe, no doubt. Hotheaded idiots. Who knows what they'd do if some of them just drank one or two GLASSES Vodka too much .... ? Putin is the only reason why there is no WW3.
    sepheronx
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    Post  sepheronx Sat Aug 30, 2014 1:10 am

    More stupidity from western leaders:
    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-08-29/kick-russia-out-swift-uk-demands-beware-retaliation

    If this is the case, it will make dealing with Russia really hard in terms of currency and force the trade in Rubles/Euros.  In this case, it will end up driving another nail into USD as the main trading currency.

    http://en.itar-tass.com/economy/747289

    Screw them. If they don't want to pay the gas, they shouldn't be given gas. Why is Russia even playing this game? They should just say "pay up or go cold".
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    Post  sepheronx Sat Aug 30, 2014 1:44 am

    Has Ukraine Shot Itself In The Foot With Gas Pipeline Deal?
    Last week, Ukrainian Prime Minister Yatsenyuk pushed a bill through the Verkhovna Rada that would see his country’s gas transportation system sold off to a group of international investors. The provisions of the law would permit the transit of natural gas to be blocked. This decision may hurt the fragile industrial recovery in Germany and finish off Ukraine’s potential as a gas transit route to Europe.

    Germany, which is the industrial heart of the European Union and a major creditor for its debtor nations, is facing the challenge of the double-edged consequences of its inverted Ostpolitik as it pertains to the trade in natural gas. Even the temporary transit risks ensuing from Kiev’s decision to block the pipeline may cause a business slump.

    The Nobel laureate Joseph Stiglitz offered an unnerving forecast for the German economy. The Columbia University professor, speaking at the conference in the southern German city of Lindau, described economic growth in the Eurozone as “sluggish.” The German economy in particular failed to grow during the second quarter, threatening the EU’s fragile industrial recovery.

    In the years to come, coping with Kiev’s attempts to jeopardize the gas-transit system and cut off Europe from its quintessential energy source in the east could become a real headache for Germany’s foreign minister, Frank-Walter Steinmeier. The most vivid example of Ukraine’s self-destructive policy that has the potential to affect European taxpayers is the recent sale of its gas transportation system.

    The imminent agreement, with many conflicting political overtones, will allow sales of 49 percent of Ukraine’s gas transportation system to a cobbled-together coalition of foreign shareholders.

    First, the non-transparent deal -- sponsored by high-ranking government officials -- is a textbook case of restrictive practices that violate World Trade Organization rules. Secondly, the pipeline itself is anything but an attractive offer.

    The major players in the European energy market are very well aware of the quality of the asset. They know that the pipeline is sorely in need of repair and is dependent on gas from a third party. According to some provisions of the law, the transit of natural gas through Ukraine can be blocked. If it really happens, the pipeline’s price will immediately plummet to $2 to $3 billion.

    Who would buy a broken-down car that can only run using your neighbor’s gas?

    That’s why, in July, Prime Minister Yatsenyuk was so interested in pushing the bill through the Verkhovna Rada that he threatened deputies with his resignation. Last week Mr. Yatsenyuk finally succeeded in passing the buck.

    For many years, Ukraine has argued that its gas transportation system is an asset of national importance that wasn’t for sale. But the Euromaidan protests changed everything. Ukraine’s new media reported that Chevron wants to buy into the country’s transit company. While the official representatives of the corporation declined to comment on the “rumors,” last year Chevron co-sponsored a conference, “Ukraine in Washington 2013,” which starred the U.S. Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland. Her deep involvement in Ukrainian politics, along with her unorthodox but honest vision of the EU, is generally well known.

    In passing the new law, government officials in Kiev and the Verkhovna Rada (now dissolved) ignored the fact that the majority of business-savvy Ukrainian voters would never approve the all-Ukrainian referendum on the summertime sale of the country’s last reasonably valuable asset. After all, the industrial region of Donbass has been irrevocably lost and the country needs to collect taxes.

    The situation surrounding the pipeline deal is reminiscent of the tactics of the United Fruit Company in the mid and late 1960s. Radically right-wing governments were installed in Central and Latin America and that corporation gained control over those countries’ main export, bananas.

    In Eastern Europe, many countries are not ready to follow Ukraine’s footsteps and renounce energy sovereignty. It’s no longer fashionable to be a banana republic. The deep-seated crisis in Ukraine and the success story of Nord Stream have encouraged other EU countries, such as Hungary, to diversify their natural-gas supply routes. Hungary’s secretary of state for public diplomacy and relations, Zoltán Kovács, recently quoted a statement from his country’s prime minister, Viktor Orbán: “No one can question our sovereign right to guarantee our natural gas supplies.” The leaders in Budapest are sure that no economic recovery is possible in Germany and EU without long-term natural-gas contracts. All EU members will benefit from stable regional trade patterns.

    Events in Ukraine should not dominate the agenda of the whole continent. That would simply be dangerous. It has already become a cliché to compare the Ukrainian crisis with the Spanish Civil War. A couple of years ago, the total “Ukrainization” of EU policy would have been perceived as a bad joke. Today 300,000 jobs are at stake in Germany and it is high time for Berlin to step in and prevent the nationalist frenzy in Kiev from ruining decades of successful business cooperation. Heiko Lohmann, a German natural-gas expert, believes that a fundamental prerequisite for normalization is the continuity of energy relations.

    Viewed from this perspective, Hungary’s position looks much more “pro-European.” Interestingly, the EU’s official energy policy papers (the European Ten-Year Network Development Plan (TYNDP 2011-2020) and Energy Infrastructure Priorities for 2020 and Beyond) contradict the hardline political statements of the acting members of the European Commission. According to the published data, Brussels expects to increase natural gas imports from Russia up to 40 percent. Time will tell whether Ukraine’s problem-plagued gas transportation system will play any role in these plans.
    onwiththewar
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #8 - Page 8 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #8

    Post  onwiththewar Sat Aug 30, 2014 2:45 am

    Goodness, 13 pages of flaming. Total waste of time and forum space.

    If differences can be sorted out pointing fingers at each other, then there won't be any wars. The 2 world wars would have been fought by talkers rather than millions after millions of soldiers.

    Why you guys care so much about how our enemies think??

    This war that's going on is the very solution to our differences. As long as it's going our way, let our enemies masturbate. We can't control their minds or hands.

    So there have been 2 days since this "Russian Invasion" and there had been no follow ups, no more news updates. Main stream media stopped talking about it, common sense says if this is true, army of Russia would have been all over Ukraine by now. So at least this "Invasion" is either fabricated or not a full scale one. According to what I have witnessed on google+ and YouTune, Americans are not buying this rubbish anymore, which is good, again I don't care what they think (all my followers on google+ are Americans but I really can't care less), but it's good that the population on the other side are waking up from the lies told by their leaders.

    If it's not a full scale invasion, there is no difference between if Putin have sent a fee dozen Russian soldiers or if they are all volunteers. A few T-90 or BTR-82 have zero significances. They can be bought in black markets, they might belong to the Vostoks, or Putin might have actually sent a few over (which I don't believe since Putin has been quite soft in this whole thing). It doesn't make any differences. The present of these weapons in such a small scale does not mean anything.

    Of courses little girls will cry and bitch, "You Russians have invaded Ukraine!" But usually men's way in solving this problem is picking up arm and fight it out. Every time I see these handful of people masturbate over these "satellite images" or the BTR-82s over and over again, I just feel embarrassed for their manhood.

    There are 3 - 4 thousands of Russian volunteers in Novorussia, which is plenty, why don't the pro west Russians go to the Ukraine side and join the fight?

    So Nato, as it appears, didn't mobilize its army or anything strategic to the war. So far their actions are purely verbal (threatens to impose further sanctions, as if anyone cares).

    Putin also toughed up a bit, calling Ukies nazi, so we assume he's on top of Russia's internal issues. This is what I care about the most, I care about how Russians think about this war (turn coats not included of course).

    All things apparently are going our ways at the moment, the other side have lowered themselves to girly little cheap bitchings. That's what I want to see, I'd rather see them talk rubbish in the open rather than doing something more sinister in the secret.

    Oh, one last thing to our Dutch friend who keeps mentioning hitler, check this out dude.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Bernhard_of_Lippe-Biesterfeld#Attitudes_to_Nazi_Germany

    "Prince Bernhard of Lippe-Biesterfeld ... members of his family who were enthusiastic Nazis ..." Epic Fail LMAO

    FlyingDuchMan is a good comedian.





















    Werewolf
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    Post  Werewolf Sat Aug 30, 2014 3:16 am

    onwiththewar wrote:
    Why you guys care so much about how our enemies think??

    Well that is the entire essence of politics to understand the enemy and make wise moves lower the enemies success and higher your achievements. Or in case of an opponent to understand the other side and to find better solutions or compromisses and finally to get along.

    Actually basic principle of problem solving.

    onwiththewar wrote:
    So there have been 2 days since this "Russian Invasion" and there had been no follow ups, no more news updates. Main stream media stopped talking about it, common sense says if this is true, army of Russia would have been all over Ukraine by now. So at least this "Invasion" is either fabricated or not a full scale one.

    If russia invades they would first use DEAD missions or at least use some ballistic missiles and bomb the crap out of the rusty SAMs and the NOt so I of Air Defense of Ukraine. And most certainly russia would not invade with 10 VDV patrol troopers that get caught before taking action the suppossed full scale russian invasion.


    onwiththewar wrote:
    Of courses little girls will cry and bitch, "You Russians have invaded Ukraine!" But usually men's way in solving this problem is picking up arm and fight it out. Every time I see these handful of people masturbate over these "satellite images" or the BTR-82s over and over again, I just feel embarrassed for their manhood.

    Yea, satellite images without any quality, like the last satellite images that was showing something that wasn't there under the unzoomed image, while the zoomed in picture showed darker background.



    onwiththewar wrote:
    Oh, one last thing to our Dutch friend who keeps mentioning hitler, check this out dude.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Bernhard_of_Lippe-Biesterfeld#Attitudes_to_Nazi_Germany

    "Prince Bernhard of Lippe-Biesterfeld ... members of his family who were enthusiastic Nazis ..." Epic Fail LMAO

    FlyingDuchMan is a good comedian.

    Well not as funny as our Porky Petro007 shenko of canada is.
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    Post  Vann7 Sat Aug 30, 2014 3:55 am

    TR1 wrote:
    ali.a.r wrote:Wow. This thread is really going to sh*t. TR1, can you provide some links for the T-72s and BTR-82s you mentioned? Ive been trying to get the full story for hours. Any media pro-Russian obviously wont have any, and the anti-Russian ones are mostly photos from exercises and whatnot, from well within Russia.

    This thread has been shit from the start, don't kid yourself.

    Regarding the vehicles, T-72s have been all over the place. Check it out, Russian sources:

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/967073.html
    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/957262.html

    And this great database:

    http://lostarmour.info/spoils/

    You can check trophies, and losses sections. Of course many of the trophies are from...errr...certain foreign sources.
    But either way, T-72s suddenly abound.


    But how do you know the photo is in Ukraine?  it could be Russia..it could be a photoshoped image, That photo absolutely proof NOTHING!!!! that Russia sent armor into Ukraine... OSCE observers that are in the border of Russia have clearly said NO Russian armor or weapons have crossed in Ukraine.. US have also asked all their allies to donate Russian tanks and armor to Ukraine.. So Rebels have been reported to capture T-72 that kiev junta got from NATO and other allies. But if Russia sent T-72s ,so what? they have the right to defend their Nation interest and security.  IF Americans were killed in Mexico near their border..every day by an army.. you can be sure as hell ,that Obama will sent tanks regardless of what UN says or internationally law says. and even declare war against that Nation ,protecting their National interest.

    In short Russia is doing NOTHING ,different ,that what ANY sane nation will do ,had their people being Massacre
    indiscriminately at their borders.  UN is just a political Institution ,and its LAWS are only for US enemies.. but they do not have to be followed by any of their allies.. According to UN , Assad is a war criminal and UNHRW is pushing to declare world wide Assad a war criminal (for defending its nation from Alqaeda invasion) but Netanyahu and Poroshenko killing of civilians women and children almost every day in the other hand is seen as legitimate by the west..is called self defense and you have not seen by UN any intention to send to a hague court for warcrimes either Poroshenko or NEtanyahu for its thousands civilians killed their criminal war ..

    What i find pathetic . is that (just like many putin haters haters),do not question any information that is against Russia...  yet any information negative against your lovely USA . you call it propaganda. or conspiracy theory. another thing is that you completely Ignore Ukrainian Army criminal war that everyday is indiscriminately and on Purpose bombing civilians places , church ,schools ,hospitals.. just to provoke terror. and that you also choose to ignore the NAZIS that are burning alive anyone who choose to be closer to Russia. How do you expect the Russian Government to look to the sides.. as you do whenever ethnic Russians are massacred at Russian borders..  how do you expect Russia to ignore the shelling of civilians in Russia
    territory. for weeks. Did you really think the kiev Junta that is controlled by USA.. will stop with eastern Ukraine?  and Crimea?  All this American intervention in Ukraine.. is all about having NATO military bases at Russian Borders..but also targeting Russia And sabotage their economy..  With NATO in control of Ukraine it will be far more easier once the war is over ,to smuggle jihadist like ISIS in the heart of Moscow.. wouldn't that be nice?

    How can you defend people that want to destroy your nation?  and your own quality of life? Are you insane? You really think USA love Russian people? and what freedom and democracy for you?  Your truly IGNORANT SIR ,or the danger that is a NAZI government at Russian Borders.. Putis is nothing but saving your ASS ,or at least of the real Russian people.. because immigrants ,specially muslins usually do not marry with any country.

    you like warships and all that stuff.. which is the only coherent thing you have..But if it was by your lovely USA ,none of those warships will be possible at all ,because they want to totally bankrupt Russia and disband it in many million of parts.. Americans simple don't like competition. and will not stop until Russia is nothing more than moscow city.. and a landlocked nation.  

    The only people living in Russia that i can understand for wanting to destroy their own nation are Fanatical Zionist Jews.. simply because they hate Christianity and anyone who stand in the way of Israel Control and Domination.
    but also fanatical muslins.. that wants their nation to become another Saudi Arabia caliphate. others because they are Paid NGOs and receive money for their Anti-Russian activism. Im sure that if Putin could run for president in USA.. he will destroy Obama anyday in any election.. I have lost the count of americans wishing Putin was their president.  But i have yet to know about anyone in Russia who will wish Obama to be theirs.


    Last edited by Vann7 on Sat Aug 30, 2014 6:04 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  Cyberspec Sat Aug 30, 2014 4:33 am

    TR1 wrote:Russian military has to get authorization and has to notify Ukrainians of incoming troops, even if they are under troop limits. They can't just cross in without any notification, for obvious mundane reasons during peacetime.

    This argument is so asinine it hurts. Yes, transfer of a bunch of Tigrs, Mi-35s, who then blockaded Ukranian military bases is all legal and good, and a proper way to behave.


    So Russia should sacrifice it's vital interests in the Black Sea / Mediterenean and get permission from a bunch of criminals that broke their own agreement even before the ink was dry on the agreement....now that is hillarious Laughing

    Rofl.

    I had a look at the reports from the front....you should be crying. From triumphant reports of imminent victory to utter chaos and squeeling all in a matter of a few days...quite an achievement Razz
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    Post  Vann7 Sat Aug 30, 2014 7:15 am

    EuroMaidanuts finally Discover America..LOL   welcome

    A surprisingly interesting and informative report but that mixed with clever propaganda, and that comes from the less expected source of all.  [ Euromaidan press ] LOL.  Is a Brilliant Report ,from a propaganda and information point of view because is well made to demonize Russia ,while keeping you interested on the report of the information it contains .  Now Euromaidans are finally discovering that Obama and NATO cheated them.. How foolish and retards Euromaidans were to think that US/EU/NATO was going to babysit them ,pay their bills ,carry their nation economy and come to their defense of their Criminal Government as soon they start a campaign of De-Russification of Ukraine and start Bombing pro Russian cities at Russian Borders and killing indiscriminately civilians women and children and anyone who reject their Fascist government.

    The report states all the Defense Industry companies in eastern Ukraine that are physically moving to Russian territory to help their defense Industry.  Which is correct.  The propaganda comes however that the report claims
    that Putin and their "supported terrorist"..invaded with tanks and the soldiers are mass stealing Ukraine defense industry and made it look as if they also kidnapped their workers and at gun point and the CEO of the companies.. What they don't say is that the Ukrainian defense companies are 100% PRIVATE.. and have voluntarily decided to move their Business ,and all their assets to Russia ,For Obvious reasons of the war , and because In Light that they will have no more Business under the European Union association pact.. Since their spare parts and other technology components are only used by Russian Helicopters and not needed by anyone in the EU.

    The report also made it look that Russia Defense Industry cannot operate without Ukraine. Rolling Eyes
    And that the Satan Missiles are the best ICBM Russia have and that Russia without Ukraine will not be able to defend their nation ,even less replace it.  Laughing   Totally Ignoring ,that SATAN ICBM is old and Russia was working
    on a next generation Replacement of it.. 100% done in Russia.  The report mention that those defense companies
    moving to Russia represent a major national defense security..because will not be able to produce their military hardware.. ie (KA-50 engines which program is canceled in Russia).  But they totally fail to mention is that those Defense Industries that move to Russia only produce spare parts and that Ukraine will still depend of Russia to buy Russian Helicopters since they make almost everything in their land. But also fail to mention that Russia can replace almost everything they buy from Ukraine in the defense Industry.. if not create something better.

    The Euromaidanut report which even thought presented interesting information about companies that help Russia and how they help.. totally failed in their logic... because they rightly noticed how Obama and NATO agreed to help Kurds in IRAQ with airstrikes but when it comes to Ukraine that are closer allies they do nothing to help at that level. Cool  So the report rightly notice the reason is cowardice of NATO to face Russia .  But they fail to see ,that NATO was never interested in helping ukraine at all.. only in their own interest.. to fight Russia to the last ukrainian man and sabotage their energy business.  How idiots Euromaidans ,,that they never saw the game how it was.

    This is why i believe.joining NATO in any association or form or shape  for any former Soviet Republic that have intention to confront Russia  , is very dangerous for them.. for countries like Ukraine ,Moldova and Georgia.
    because joining NATO give them a false Illusion of Security ,and make them to commit the fatal mistakes as Georgia did to attack Russia ,thinking that NATO was going to rescue them. IF The baltic states that are NATO members make the Fatal mistake to deploy Patriot Missiles and ABM missiles there near the border with Russia..
    They will also discover the hard way ,that NATO will not come to their help if Russia choose to strike their facilities..

    The Moral of the Story is you are always doomed,to have good relations with your neighbors ,specially if your nation is weak in comparison and they have powerful armies.you cannot make alliance with their main enemies ,even if that is legitimate.. it will be stupid.. because is a provocation ,that will end in a major conflict sooner or later..and the smaller nation will take the worse part. That said.. is a mistake for Georgia ,Ukraine or Moldova to join NATO ,because will not make their nations safer.. instead will facilitate NATO to use their nation to provoke a war against them.

    World Image of power is everything for US ,and it will be incredibly shameful and catastrophic for their economy.
    If for example they fly an F-35 in eastern Ukraine airspace with the intention to help Ukraine and is shot down by
    a cheap soviet manpad. Laughing  Same with a NATO modern Tank..There is too much to lose if NATO invades . if they do it ,they will keep it under radar and use private mercenaries instead as they are doing . Sending Mercenaries with portable weapons to help.
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    Post  Mike E Sat Aug 30, 2014 8:33 am

    Ukraine’s early parliamentary elections to cost 73 mln dollars - CEC chief

    KIEV, August 30,/ITAR-TASS/. To hold early parliamentary elections Ukraine will have to spend 980.88 million hryvnias (about 73 million dollars), the chief of the Central Election Commission, Mikhail Okhendovsky said on Friday. He hopes the government will identify the sources where the money may come from without delay.
    Part of the funds (4.48 million hryvnias) is absolutely essential to update the national automated vote-counting system.
    Okhendovsky believes that the Ministry of Finance will have to either draft a bill on amendments to the 2014 budget or provide financing from the reserve fund.
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    Post  mack8 Sat Aug 30, 2014 9:48 am

    There are reports that another aircraft was shot down, any further info? Thanks.
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    Post  Vann7 Sat Aug 30, 2014 10:37 am

    mack8 wrote:There are reports that another aircraft was shot down, any further info? Thanks.

    Ukies lost a record last night of about 4 SU-25 Aircraft .. they were trying to help their troops to break the siege on their trapped zones.

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #8 - Page 8 Karta_ahartin_29_aug


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    Post  Regular Sat Aug 30, 2014 10:42 am

    TheGeorgian wrote:

    About Putin.

    I'd rather have him as Russia's president than any of the morons in the Russian goverment. Some of them would have already suggested preemtive strike against Europe, no doubt. Hotheaded idiots. Who knows what they'd do if some of them just drank one or two GLASSES Vodka too much .... ? Putin is the only reason why there is no WW3.
    Lavrov and Ivanov are not morons, but maybe that's why they are not going for presidency.
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    Post  Hannibal Barca Sat Aug 30, 2014 10:42 am

    Our nazi friendly trolls will probably commit suicide looking this map. Screw them, they are not even good as clowns anymore.
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    Post  flamming_python Sat Aug 30, 2014 10:44 am

    Flyingdutchman wrote:Is this neo-nazi crap still going on...
    Nothing personal mike Very Happy

    There are no neo-nazis in power in the Ukraine.

    Just ruthless, cynical people, many of whom aquired disgraceful amounts of wealth by various immoral means in the 90s - and to whom the blood of their own people, nor democracy, nor the future of their country means anything at all.

    TR1 wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Flyingdutchman wrote:In Crimea before the elections papers were found that were already fill in…

    According to Western media... Rolling Eyes That went out of it's way to edit out the certain key fact in their reports, that the Crimean referendum to join Russia has been around since...*drum roll* all the back in 1992, predating Putin's presidency by 7-8 years... lol1 lol1 lol1

    Like the alleged invasion of Crimea with thousand russian troops, purposely ignoring the fact that russia can have 25.000 troops on crimea and they had around 18.000 troops at maximum at the point before referendum.

    And that Russian troops were legally allowed to be stationed in Crimea since 1997. Funny how the "military invasion" of Crimea didn't include rocket artillery shelling, fighter jet sorties carrying out bombing missions, you know...like the normal violence that follows military invasions.

    Russian military has to get authorization and has to notify Ukrainians of incoming troops, even if they are under troop limits. They can't just cross in without any notification, for obvious mundane reasons during peacetime.

    This argument is so asinine it hurts. Yes, transfer of a bunch of Tigrs, Mi-35s, who then blockaded Ukranian military bases is all legal and good, and a proper way to behave.

    Rofl.

    Neither legal nor proper - but with hindsight proven to have been completely neccessery. Unless of course instead of the encirclement and shelling of Donetsk, you'd rather have the encirclement and shelling of Sevastopol, where the entire Russian BSF is based.

    Clearly the Russian military would have been forced to intervene either way; just a question of when and in what position they would be while doing so.

    The seizure of the Crimea was a brilliantly executed military operation.
    Not to be confused with the annexation of the Crimea, which was a questionable (IMO) political decision, the consequences of which are as yet unknown.

    TR1 wrote:
    gregoire wrote:As I see it we are witnessing history now. The world is changing and it will never be the same again.

    You are right. Everyone small bordering Russia will seek NATO membership desperately.


    Such as?
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    Post  arpakola Sat Aug 30, 2014 11:19 am

    [quote="TR1"]
    Mike E wrote:
    TR1 wrote:
    gregoire wrote:As I see it we are witnessing history now. The world is changing and it will never be the same again.

    You are right. Everyone small bordering Russia will seek NATO membership desperately.

    Keep drinking TR1, but remember not to become addicted!

    Why would anyone want to become a member of NATO? So they can be internally corrupted?

    Corrupted? You mean like Russia is to the core?

    I'd rather live in most NATO member states than glorious Russian allies like...Belarus. [/quote]

    why dont you try Romania or Bulgaria.. or even say Turkey then ?


    Fl Python wrote: Not to be confused with the annexation of the Crimea, which was a questionable (IMO) political decision, the consequences of which are as yet unknown.

    Taking back Crimea , a traditional Russian territory is a gift to the next generation .. no wonder about that and whatever the cost of today.
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    Post  arpakola Sat Aug 30, 2014 11:30 am

    Hannibal Barca wrote:Our nazi friendly trolls will probably commit suicide looking this map. Screw them, they are not even good as clowns anymore.

    an AK130 on board .. has to apear now to AZOF .. just to increase the panic of Porosh thugs
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    Post  Vann7 Sat Aug 30, 2014 2:14 pm

    LAdies and Gentleman...
    For the people that was saying that Strelkov was killed.. and or Putin Betrayed Him.   Wink

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #8 - Page 8 BwSElXiIQAEdqEE

    He have a lot of Future in Novorossiya , and apparently was in a conference in Crimea.. If i were to bet ,
    the decision to remove him from the front line was to keep him safe , he is too important for the future of
    Novorossiya and regardless of his political preference he have the charisma that is required but also the Patriotism
    for Russia.. that they will want to use to their advantage. My guess is Strelkov will be sponsored for President
    of Novorosiya when the war ends.. or an important Top Military position. Anyone for strelkov for president
    of Novorrosiya? how about President of Russia? Very Happy



    Last edited by Vann7 on Sat Aug 30, 2014 2:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  Werewolf Sat Aug 30, 2014 2:16 pm

    Who is the other guy?
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    Post  Petro007 Sat Aug 30, 2014 2:34 pm

    Look at that other guy's clothing. It seems that the photo was made in october-november or march-april. That's not how people dress in summer (temperatures in Ukraine are still around 20-25 degrees Celsius most of the time)

    That conference took place 2 days ago and Strelkov did not show up even though it was reported that he would. Probably dead now.
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    Post  Flyingdutchman Sat Aug 30, 2014 2:49 pm

    Petro007 wrote:Look at that other guy's clothing. It seems that the photo was made in october-november or march-april. That's not how people dress in summer (temperatures in Ukraine are still around 20-25 degrees Celsius most of the time)

    That conference took place 2 days ago and Strelkov did not show up even though it was reported that he would. Probably dead now.

    I think for one time this guy is right...
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    Post  Vann7 Sat Aug 30, 2014 3:07 pm

    Interesting info.. that Putin Told and was picked by CNN and made headlines..

    Putin :


    Moscow doesn't want or intend to wade into any "large-scale conflicts," Putin insisted at a youth forum, state-run Itar-Tass reported. A few breaths later, he made the point that Russia is "strengthening our nuclear deterrence forces and our armed forces," making them more efficient and modernized.
    "I want to remind you that Russia is one of the most powerful nuclear nations," the President said. "This is a reality, not just words." He later warned, "We must always be ready to repel any aggression against Russia and (potential enemies) should be aware .. it is better not to come against Russia as regards a possible armed conflict." .



    No he is not.. he only say the things he Wish were true...  
    There have been several sources credible sites ,that have close contacts inside Novo leadership and strelkov and said he is alive... Even people who said have spoken with him on the phone.. etc.. so just don't hold your breath.
    My guess is His role and popularity will be used by Russia to advertise Novorosiya as a new nation.. and counter
    all the negative propaganda of the west..  Strelkov is so popular in RUssia and Europe that collective figurines are made about the Novorosiya fighters..  With the Cossack ,Strelkov and probably motorola was there too.  Laughing


    Last edited by Vann7 on Sat Aug 30, 2014 3:16 pm; edited 2 times in total

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