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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #8

    TR1
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    Post  TR1 on Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:29 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Flyingdutchman wrote:In Crimea before the elections papers were found that were already fill in…

    According to Western media... Rolling Eyes That went out of it's way to edit out the certain key fact in their reports, that the Crimean referendum to join Russia has been around since...*drum roll* all the back in 1992, predating Putin's presidency by 7-8 years... lol1 lol1 lol1

    Like the alleged invasion of Crimea with thousand russian troops, purposely ignoring the fact that russia can have 25.000 troops on crimea and they had around 18.000 troops at maximum at the point before referendum.

    And that Russian troops were legally allowed to be stationed in Crimea since 1997. Funny how the "military invasion" of Crimea didn't include rocket artillery shelling, fighter jet sorties carrying out bombing missions, you know...like the normal violence that follows military invasions.

    Russian military has to get authorization and has to notify Ukrainians of incoming troops, even if they are under troop limits. They can't just cross in without any notification, for obvious mundane reasons during peacetime.

    This argument is so asinine it hurts. Yes, transfer of a bunch of Tigrs, Mi-35s, who then blockaded Ukranian military bases is all legal and good, and a proper way to behave.

    Rofl.
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    Post  Werewolf on Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:34 pm

    TR1 wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Flyingdutchman wrote:In Crimea before the elections papers were found that were already fill in…

    According to Western media... Rolling Eyes That went out of it's way to edit out the certain key fact in their reports, that the Crimean referendum to join Russia has been around since...*drum roll* all the back in 1992, predating Putin's presidency by 7-8 years... lol1 lol1 lol1

    Like the alleged invasion of Crimea with thousand russian troops, purposely ignoring the fact that russia can have 25.000 troops on crimea and they had around 18.000 troops at maximum at the point before referendum.

    And that Russian troops were legally allowed to be stationed in Crimea since 1997. Funny how the "military invasion" of Crimea didn't include rocket artillery shelling, fighter jet sorties carrying out bombing missions, you know...like the normal violence that follows military invasions.

    Russian military has to get authorization and has to notify Ukrainians of incoming troops, even if they are under troop limits. They can't just cross in without any notification, for obvious mundane reasons during peacetime.

    This argument is so asinine it hurts. Yes, transfer of a bunch of Tigrs, Mi-35s, who then blockaded Ukranian military bases is all legal and good, and a proper way to behave.

    Rofl.

    They did notify the ukrainian authority and that was and still is yanukovich by constitution so i expect some consistency ....ohh wait no i don't expect consistency from you about anything scrap that.

    Yes that is proper manner to behave, or maybe we should act like the US puppet of fascist ukropy and white phosphour the entire place as soon they don't do what they are told to do.
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    Post  Mike E on Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:37 pm

    TR1 wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Flyingdutchman wrote:In Crimea before the elections papers were found that were already fill in…

    According to Western media... Rolling Eyes That went out of it's way to edit out the certain key fact in their reports, that the Crimean referendum to join Russia has been around since...*drum roll* all the back in 1992, predating Putin's presidency by 7-8 years... lol1 lol1 lol1

    Like the alleged invasion of Crimea with thousand russian troops, purposely ignoring the fact that russia can have 25.000 troops on crimea and they had around 18.000 troops at maximum at the point before referendum.

    And that Russian troops were legally allowed to be stationed in Crimea since 1997. Funny how the "military invasion" of Crimea didn't include rocket artillery shelling, fighter jet sorties carrying out bombing missions, you know...like the normal violence that follows military invasions.

    Russian military has to get authorization and has to notify Ukrainians of incoming troops, even if they are under troop limits. They can't just cross in without any notification, for obvious mundane reasons during peacetime.

    This argument is so asinine it hurts. Yes, transfer of a bunch of Tigrs, Mi-35s, who then blockaded Ukranian military bases is all legal and good, and a proper way to behave.

    Rofl.
    Who said they didn't notify? Kiev never really complained, and we all know how "reliable" they are with their information... Also, "peace time"? Replacing an elected government with violence and replacing them with short tempered neo-Nazis is peaceful?
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    Post  Flyingdutchman on Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:39 pm

    Is this neo-nazi crap still going on...
    Nothing personal mike Very Happy
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    Post  Werewolf on Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:40 pm

    Mike E wrote:
    Who said they didn't notify? Kiev never really complained, and we all know how "reliable" they are with their information... Also, "peace time"? Replacing an elected government with violence and replacing them with short tempered neo-Nazis is peaceful?

    Of course it is, haven't you heared the news in our civilized west about the violent Berkut and Yanukovich the dictator that murders his people like the Spiegel here in Germany wrote and the peaceful protesters getting killed and smashed by Yanukovich regime...

    You have always to turn 180° of what the west says and you will have something that fits the truth much better.
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    Post  gregoire on Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:41 pm

    TR1 wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Flyingdutchman wrote:In Crimea before the elections papers were found that were already fill in…

    According to Western media... Rolling Eyes That went out of it's way to edit out the certain key fact in their reports, that the Crimean referendum to join Russia has been around since...*drum roll* all the back in 1992, predating Putin's presidency by 7-8 years... lol1 lol1 lol1

    Like the alleged invasion of Crimea with thousand russian troops, purposely ignoring the fact that russia can have 25.000 troops on crimea and they had around 18.000 troops at maximum at the point before referendum.

    And that Russian troops were legally allowed to be stationed in Crimea since 1997. Funny how the "military invasion" of Crimea didn't include rocket artillery shelling, fighter jet sorties carrying out bombing missions, you know...like the normal violence that follows military invasions.

    Russian military has to get authorization and has to notify Ukrainians of incoming troops, even if they are under troop limits. They can't just cross in without any notification, for obvious mundane reasons during peacetime.

    This argument is so asinine it hurts. Yes, transfer of a bunch of Tigrs, Mi-35s, who then blockaded Ukranian military bases is all legal and good, and a proper way to behave.

    Rofl.

    If yanukovich was dead, yes. Yanukovich back then was still the official president even after he fled to russia. Putin only acknowledged porky(shenko) last week. So you're wrong.
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    Post  Hannibal Barca on Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:41 pm

    TR1 wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Flyingdutchman wrote:In Crimea before the elections papers were found that were already fill in…

    According to Western media... Rolling Eyes That went out of it's way to edit out the certain key fact in their reports, that the Crimean referendum to join Russia has been around since...*drum roll* all the back in 1992, predating Putin's presidency by 7-8 years... lol1 lol1 lol1

    Like the alleged invasion of Crimea with thousand russian troops, purposely ignoring the fact that russia can have 25.000 troops on crimea and they had around 18.000 troops at maximum at the point before referendum.

    And that Russian troops were legally allowed to be stationed in Crimea since 1997. Funny how the "military invasion" of Crimea didn't include rocket artillery shelling, fighter jet sorties carrying out bombing missions, you know...like the normal violence that follows military invasions.

    Russian military has to get authorization and has to notify Ukrainians of incoming troops, even if they are under troop limits. They can't just cross in without any notification, for obvious mundane reasons during peacetime.

    This argument is so asinine it hurts. Yes, transfer of a bunch of Tigrs, Mi-35s, who then blockaded Ukranian military bases is all legal and good, and a proper way to behave.

    Rofl.


    Past. Use past tense. Your big nose friends lost it get used to it.
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    Post  TR1 on Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:42 pm

    Flyingdutchman wrote:Is this neo-nazi crap still going on...
    Nothing personal mike Very Happy

    Yeah I laugh hard every time I see it.

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    Post  TR1 on Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:44 pm

    gregoire wrote:
    TR1 wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Flyingdutchman wrote:In Crimea before the elections papers were found that were already fill in…

    According to Western media... Rolling Eyes That went out of it's way to edit out the certain key fact in their reports, that the Crimean referendum to join Russia has been around since...*drum roll* all the back in 1992, predating Putin's presidency by 7-8 years... lol1 lol1 lol1

    Like the alleged invasion of Crimea with thousand russian troops, purposely ignoring the fact that russia can have 25.000 troops on crimea and they had around 18.000 troops at maximum at the point before referendum.

    And that Russian troops were legally allowed to be stationed in Crimea since 1997. Funny how the "military invasion" of Crimea didn't include rocket artillery shelling, fighter jet sorties carrying out bombing missions, you know...like the normal violence that follows military invasions.

    Russian military has to get authorization and has to notify Ukrainians of incoming troops, even if they are under troop limits. They can't just cross in without any notification, for obvious mundane reasons during peacetime.

    This argument is so asinine it hurts. Yes, transfer of a bunch of Tigrs, Mi-35s, who then blockaded Ukranian military bases is all legal and good, and a proper way to behave.

    Rofl.

    If yanukovich was dead, yes. Yanukovich back then was still the official president even after he fled to russia. Putin only acknowledged porky(shenko) last week. So you're wrong.

    Yanukovich approved Russian mil to block in Ukranian bases? I look foreward to seeing proof of that.

    And given that Yanukovich fled Kiev and his country, using him as justification for the Russian armed intervention is hilarious indeed.
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    Post  gregoire on Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:44 pm

    As I see it we are witnessing history now. The world is changing and it will never be the same again.
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    Post  Flyingdutchman on Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:45 pm

    TR1 wrote:
    Flyingdutchman wrote:Is this neo-nazi crap still going on...
    Nothing personal mike Very Happy

    Yeah I laugh hard every time I see it.


    Me too Laughing
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    Post  Werewolf on Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:50 pm

    gregoire wrote:As I see it we are witnessing history now. The world is changing and it will never be the same again.

    The only thing i see so far is that despite all evidence there are still some weak minded dimwits believing russia is the bad guy, some people played to much one man army CoD against hordes of evil russians and beLIEve every crap now.

    We still got here a suppossed russian who denies the existence of nazis in Ukraine, who walk around with Wolfs Angel rute of entire right sector battalions,svaboda and other scum that are under ukrainian government participating in genocide.

    The only thing that they deserve is getting hit repeatedly with all the evidence of the nazis in ukraine and well that would not take more then two hits to kill those deniers.
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    Post  gregoire on Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:51 pm

    TR1 wrote:
    gregoire wrote:

    If yanukovich was dead, yes. Yanukovich back then was still the official president even after he fled to russia. Putin only acknowledged porky(shenko) last week. So you're wrong.

    Yanukovich approved Russian mil to block in Ukranian bases? I look foreward to seeing proof of that.

    And given that Yanukovich fled Kiev and his country, using him as justification for the Russian armed intervention is hilarious indeed.

    Maybe you should stop cherrypicking and stear the conversation. There was no legal representative, no legitimate parliament, in kiev because yanukovich was still alive (in russia). The russians didn't have to ask anybody anything because there wasn't a party to ask anything from. The troops also didn't come over, they were already there and have been for 200+ years. Crimea is as russian as can be.

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    Post  TR1 on Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:52 pm

    gregoire wrote:As I see it we are witnessing history now. The world is changing and it will never be the same again.

    You are right. Everyone small bordering Russia will seek NATO membership desperately.

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    Post  Mike E on Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:52 pm

    TR1 wrote:
    Flyingdutchman wrote:Is this neo-nazi crap still going on...
    Nothing personal mike Very Happy

    Yeah I laugh hard every time I see it.

    Yes, it is. The same so-called "neo-Nazis" are in their government, just look at Yatz. - Olek as well. Wither way their government is full of corruption and even a dictator! (That would be "Porky-be-piggin" now that he destroyed their already illegal parliament. - What comes next? One filled with puppets!)
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    Post  gregoire on Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:52 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    gregoire wrote:As I see it we are witnessing history now. The world is changing and it will never be the same again.

    The only thing i see so far is that despite all evidence there are still some weak minded dimwits believing russia is the bad guy, some people played to much one man army CoD against hordes of evil russians and beLIEve every crap now.

    We still got here a suppossed russian who denies the existence of nazis in Ukraine, who walk around with Wolfs Angel rute of entire right sector battalions,svaboda and other scum that are under ukrainian government participating in genocide.

    The only thing that they deserve is getting hit repeatedly with all the evidence of the nazis in ukraine and well that would not take more then two hits to kill those deniers.

    They'll be history too.
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    Post  gregoire on Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:54 pm

    TR1 wrote:
    gregoire wrote:As I see it we are witnessing history now. The world is changing and it will never be the same again.

    You are right. Everyone small bordering Russia will seek NATO membership desperately.


    They should. It will hasten the demise of the EU/NATO/WHTEVR and after that they'll hurry back to have at least one hot russian potato.
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    Post  Mike E on Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:57 pm

    TR1 wrote:
    gregoire wrote:As I see it we are witnessing history now. The world is changing and it will never be the same again.

    You are right. Everyone small bordering Russia will seek NATO membership desperately.

    Keep drinking TR1, but remember not to become addicted!

    Why would anyone want to become a member of NATO? So they can be internally corrupted?
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    Post  Feldmarszal on Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:17 pm

    The problem with NATO is that it has only one member- the US. All the small countries join NATO not for the protection of Spain, Italy or even Germany. The countries like Lithuania or Estonia flock to the US for protection, because let's be honest, 225 German tanks or 10 Austrian Eurofighters are no real deterrent. NATO has value only as long as the americans invest their interest in Europe (which as we all have seen they were less and less willing to do the last couple of years). With the US economy under increasing strain, domestic military hardware prices skyrocketing and their military obligations in the Pacific and the Middle East, i don't think the americans will re-focus themselves on Eastern Europe, no matter what happens in the Ukraine.

    It's not the 1980s and the Reagan administration anymore. The Chinese are way more important and are aligned towards Russia much more than they ever were towards the USSR. The Middle East, which Reagan so skillfully exploited as a gambit three decades ago is now a very dangerous and unstable place (thanks to their own actions). What I see in the near future is a gradual move towards local alliances. Few new countries will want to put their fates in the hands of americans. What does it matter if you have a powerful ally 20.000 kilometers away when by the time they get to you (if ever?) the war will be over?


    Last edited by Feldmarszal on Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  TR1 on Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:22 pm

    Mike E wrote:
    TR1 wrote:
    gregoire wrote:As I see it we are witnessing history now. The world is changing and it will never be the same again.

    You are right. Everyone small bordering Russia will seek NATO membership desperately.

    Keep drinking TR1, but remember not to become addicted!

    Why would anyone want to become a member of NATO? So they can be internally corrupted?

    Corrupted? You mean like Russia is to the core?

    I'd rather live in most NATO member states than glorious Russian allies like...Belarus.
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    Post  Mike E on Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:22 pm

    - Good point, and that is the truth.
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    Post  Mike E on Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:24 pm

    TR1 wrote:
    Mike E wrote:
    TR1 wrote:
    gregoire wrote:As I see it we are witnessing history now. The world is changing and it will never be the same again.

    You are right. Everyone small bordering Russia will seek NATO membership desperately.

    Keep drinking TR1, but remember not to become addicted!

    Why would anyone want to become a member of NATO? So they can be internally corrupted?

    Corrupted? You mean like Russia is to the core?

    I'd rather live in most NATO member states than glorious Russian allies like...Belarus.
    I'm not going to deny that Russia has corruption, but to say Ukraine has less is imbecilic!

    Yeah, because NATO is totally an economic alliance... Nevermind that artificial demand, inflation, and corruption fuels it!
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    Post  Werewolf on Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:29 pm

    Feldmarszal wrote:The problem with NATO is that it has only one member- the US. All the small countries join NATO not for the protection of Spain, Italy or even Germany. The countries like Lithuanian or Estonia flock to the US for protection, because let's be honest, 225 German tanks or 10 Austrian Eurofighters are no real deterrent. NATO has value only as long as the americans invest their interest in Europe (which as we all have seen they were less and less willing to do the last couple of years). With the US economy under increasing strain, domestic military hardware prices skyrocketing and their military obligations in the Pacific and the Middle East, i don't think the americans will re-focus themselves on Eastern Europe, no matter what happens in the Ukraine.

    It's not the 1980s and the Reagan administration anymore. The Chinese are way more important and are aligned towards Russia much more than they ever were towards the USSR. The Middle East, which Reagan so skillfully exploited as a gambit three decades ago is now a very dangerous and unstable place (thanks to their own actions). What I see in the near future is a gradual move towards local alliances. Few new countries will want to put their fates in the hands of americans. What does it matter if you have a powerful ally 20.000 kilometers away when by the time they get to you (if ever?) the war will be over?

    Like Sackarschwilli who expected help from US and we know how that turned out...he ate a tie before he could be hanged on the tie, not a stupid move i must admit.
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    Post  TheGeorgian on Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:37 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    So from 1993 to 2014 you claim nobody gone away with any committed atrocities?

    CWhat about Serbian war, Iraqi war, Lybia,Syria,Afghanistan, Georgia and now Ukraine.

    I don't see any responsible for those wars being trailed infront of den haage.

    Bush,Obama,Hillary Clinton, Dick Cheney, Sackarschwilli, Schröder,Merkel,Camoron and the rest of the scum that was first in line for waging wars against innocent countries under false flag operations blaming someone and then stating that they are the solution for a selfmade problem.

    Who did not go away with atrocities?

    I was talking solely about Georgia. Who got away with atrocities please ? all of the warlords that commited crimes either got arrested or died .... and surprise the ones who survived did only because they fled to Russia and got shelter there, now probably living their lives peacefully as criminals. Gamsakhurdia, the first president got murdered, Saakashvili and his cabinet of bandits is on the run or being prosecuted or about to be prosecuted .... so yes, I'd say compared to other countries, that is a complete success.
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    Post  Werewolf on Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:40 pm

    TheGeorgian wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    So from 1993 to 2014 you claim nobody gone away with any committed atrocities?

    CWhat about Serbian war, Iraqi war, Lybia,Syria,Afghanistan, Georgia and now Ukraine.

    I don't see any responsible for those wars being trailed infront of den haage.

    Bush,Obama,Hillary Clinton, Dick Cheney, Sackarschwilli, Schröder,Merkel,Camoron and the rest of the scum that was first in line for waging wars against innocent countries under false flag operations blaming someone and then stating that they are the solution for a selfmade problem.

    Who did not go away with atrocities?

    I was talking solely about Georgia. Who got away with atrocities please ? all of the warlords that commited crimes either got arrested or died .... and surprise the ones who survived did only because they fled to Russia and got shelter there, now probably living their lives peacefully as criminals. Gamsakhurdia, the first president got murdered, Saakashvili and his cabinet of bandits is on the run or being prosecuted or about to be prosecuted .... so yes, I'd say compared to other countries, that is a complete success.

    Sure whatever you consider a suck-sess.

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