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    Libyan Crisis

    Aristide
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    Post  Aristide on Sun May 03, 2020 11:20 am

    Its funny, France heavily supports Haftar and acts masisve against Turkey.

    Most of Turkeys attacks against Haftars troops run into the sand, because french intervention. There are currently 2 french destroyers infront the libyan coast. Whenever turkish supported troops started
    attacks against Haftar troops, their guided missiles ect lost track and got diverted.

    We also intercepted turlish ships carrying weapons to Libya

    https://ahvalnews.com/turkey-libya/french-navy-intercepts-turkish-ship-carrying-weapons-libya-ria-novosti

    At same time we send Haftar weapons to deal with the Turks

    Libyan Crisis - Page 21 How-France-Is-Making-Libya-Worse-Macron-Is-Strengthening-Haftar-1070x434

    Yes Turkey is in NATO, that doesnt change the fact, that France sees Turkey as enemy and acts accordingly.

    We want Turkey pushed back at all fronts and so far its sucessful. Erdogans attempts in Libya were crushed by France.

    France supports Haftar, the UN backed government is powerless (as is the UN). So what you see is Real Politics

    Dont know where Russia is in this but i guess on our side regarding Haftar.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Sun May 03, 2020 11:36 am

    Turkey uses only drones and small laser guided munitions. France hasn't nothing to couter that. It's mostly Egypt and EAU that provide weapons to Aftar and Russia provides training and advisers.

    France does almost nothing to support Aftar. Maybe some intel'.
    medo
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    Post  medo on Sun May 03, 2020 11:45 am

    Isos wrote:Turkey uses only drones and small laser guided munitions. France hasn't nothing to couter that. It's mostly Egypt and EAU that provide weapons to Aftar and Russia provides training and advisers.

    France does almost nothing to support Aftar. Maybe some intel'.

    You forgot Israel. Mossad also train and advice Haftar's LNA. Russians there are from private companies and paid by UAE.
    Aristide
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    Post  Aristide on Sun May 03, 2020 3:47 pm

    Isos wrote:Turkey uses only drones and small laser guided munitions. France hasn't nothing to couter that. It's mostly Egypt and EAU that provide weapons to Aftar and Russia provides training and advisers.

    France does almost nothing to support Aftar. Maybe some intel'.

    Which is of course bullshit.

    France openly slams turkish drones and other guided systems. Thats what the ships are there for. Once something from Turkey rises, it loses connection and goes highwire. Erdogan publicly shamed France for that. France supplies weapons, money and intel to Haftar and is by far Haftars biggest international supporter. We block turkish ships, cut off turkish transport lines ect. Haftar got anti tank weapons from us, ammo ect

    We would like Russia to do more. Training and advisors doesnt help much.

    Its not in french interest, when Turkey has any influence or say at all.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Sun May 03, 2020 11:02 pm

    Any report of french downing drones with electronic warfare ? All tge drones downed were by UAE air defence systems.

    French fly fighters and some ELINT falcon jets but only for intel'.

    Training and advisors help retake ground. Those lybian guerillas who are fighting have no idea how to fight a war and it's russians who are telling them what do do.
    Aristide
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    Post  Aristide on Sun May 03, 2020 11:08 pm

    Isos wrote:Any report of french downing drones with electronic warfare ? All tge drones downed were by UAE air defence systems.

    French fly fighters and some ELINT falcon jets but only for intel'.

    Training and advisors help retake ground. Those lybian guerillas who are fighting have no idea how to fight a war and it's russians who are telling them what do do.

    There is no country called lybia. Please learn how to write the countries name before trying to lecture. The country name is Libya.

    We have two ships there, jamming turks. We stop turkish ships, send weapons to Haftar ect.

    Its no secret that France would like to see Erdogan dead.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Mon May 04, 2020 10:32 am

    This is an English language forum so the language you speak here is English.

    For many members English is not their first or even their second language, so I think you should not be critical of spelling mistakes... especially when they are not so much spelling mistakes as typos.

    You corrected him so you clearly understood what he was trying to say.

    In future do not bother.

    If the mistake meant you were not sure what he was trying to say or the error made what he was saying ambiguous then mentioning it is OK for clarity, but you clearly knew what he meant to type so you are just being rude.

    You will understand the word etiquette.

    Being a civilised French man I expect you would behave with dignity and class... without being told off...

    Or are you uncivilised and without class?
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Mon May 04, 2020 3:39 pm

    Aristide wrote:
    Isos wrote:Any report of french downing drones with electronic warfare ? All tge drones downed were by UAE air defence systems.

    French fly fighters and some ELINT falcon jets but only for intel'.

    Training and advisors help retake ground. Those lybian guerillas who are fighting have no idea how to fight a war and it's russians who are telling them what do do.

    There is no country called lybia. Please learn how to write the countries name before trying to lecture. The country name is Libya.

    Libyan Crisis - Page 21 Image1
    franco
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    Post  franco on Mon May 04, 2020 4:48 pm

    GarryB wrote:This is an English language forum so the language you speak here is English.

    For many members English is not their first or even their second language, so I think you should not be critical of spelling mistakes... especially when they are not so much spelling mistakes as typos.

    You corrected him so you clearly understood what he was trying to say.

    In future do not bother.

    If the mistake meant you were not sure what he was trying to say or the error made what he was saying ambiguous then mentioning it is OK for clarity, but you clearly knew what he meant to type so you are just being rude.

    You will understand the word etiquette.

    Being a civilised French man I expect you would behave with dignity and class... without being told off...

    Or are you uncivilised and without class?

    Actually if my who's who around here is correct, they are both Frenchmen Suspect
    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK on Mon May 04, 2020 5:16 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    You will understand the word etiquette.

    Being a civilised French man I expect you would behave with dignity and class... without being told off...

    Or are you uncivilised and without class?
    Now that is class thumbsup
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Mon May 04, 2020 5:28 pm

    GarryB wrote:You will understand the word etiquette.

    Ironically enough 'etiquette' is a French word commonly used in English.

    https://www.dictionary.com/browse/etiquette
    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Mon May 04, 2020 6:20 pm

    Reminds me of leftists on facebook that point out grammar mistakes because they run out of arguments and are faced by arguments that prove they are totally wrong and make them stupid as fuck.

    Anyway my question is still unanswered. Any proof of EW systems being used ? Where were those ships ? Which drone was jammed ?

    You clearly have no clue what EW is and how to jamm a directed link that controls a military drone. There is plenty videos of turkish drones in Syria working very well. The ones that are downed and taken in picture show they were destroyed by missiles.
    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK on Mon May 04, 2020 8:12 pm

    Isos wrote:
    Anyway my question is still unanswered. Any proof of EW systems being used ? Where were those ships ? Which drone was jammed ?

    You clearly have no clue what EW is and how to jamm a directed link that controls a military drone. There is plenty videos of turkish drones in Syria working very well. The ones that are downed and taken in picture show they were destroyed by missiles.

    Good questions, for a start are the French ships in Libyan territorial waters? Probably only the French military know that POTFMKT.

    What is the range of French EW? POTFMKT. Given its on a ship perhaps its optimised against AShM? POTFMKT. If so maybe shortish range but POTFMKT.

    Have the French Navy done any work against drones? POTFMKT. Why would they need to, their prime role is probably defending their carrier but POTFMKT.

    Have the air defence radars on the destroyers got the range to see inland drones? POTFMKT. Have the French shipborne SAMs got the range to hit drones inland in Syria? POTFMKT.

    What we can be pretty certain of is that a random French blogger probably doesn't know.
    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK on Mon May 04, 2020 8:14 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    GarryB wrote:You will understand the word etiquette.
    Ironically enough 'etiquette' is a French word commonly used in English.
    Almost certainly why Garry chose the word. Smile
    Aristide
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    Post  Aristide on Mon May 04, 2020 8:26 pm

    GarryB wrote:This is an English language forum so the language you speak here is English.

    For many members English is not their first or even their second language, so I think you should not be critical of spelling mistakes... especially when they are not so much spelling mistakes as typos.

    You corrected him so you clearly understood what he was trying to say.

    In future do not bother.

    If the mistake meant you were not sure what he was trying to say or the error made what he was saying ambiguous then mentioning it is OK for clarity, but you clearly knew what he meant to type so you are just being rude.

    You will understand the word etiquette.

    Being a civilised French man I expect you would behave with dignity and class... without being told off...

    Or are you uncivilised and without class?

    English is also my 2nd language, since my native language is french.

    "Lybia" is no typo. Its a mistake many make.

    I corrected him and spared him embarassment in future.

    It would be uncivillized to not tell him how the country is written.

    That is french class and we are famous for that, im sure you know that.

    We are very direct but charming while doing so. That is french etiquette.

    You should travel to New Caledonia and spell a word wrong at our airport. You will be suprised how quick you get a quite direct correction. Smile

    @Isis, i assume then Erdogan has become so demented that he feels so attacked by us. (cant wait for the day we take him out for good)
    RTN
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    Post  RTN on Mon May 04, 2020 8:48 pm

    Isos wrote:French fly fighters and some ELINT falcon jets but only for intel'.

    Fighter aircraft while they are using their Electronic Warfare (EW) systems won't be able to fire any of their weapons.
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Mon May 04, 2020 9:15 pm

    RTN wrote:
    Isos wrote:French fly fighters and some ELINT falcon jets but only for intel'.

    Fighter aircraft while they are using their Electronic Warfare (EW) systems won't be able to fire any of their weapons.

    It depends on the fighter, the weapons, the country of it's origin, and that nation's doctrine. The Federation put heavy emphasis developing inertial guidance for that very reason. It's unlikely the French have this doctrine.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Mon May 04, 2020 11:21 pm

    @Isis, i assume then Erdogan has become so demented that he feels so attacked by us. (cant wait for the day we take him out for good)

    It's Isos. Maybe you should apply your stupid rules to yourself... and be classy towards yourself.
    ahmedfire
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    Post  ahmedfire on Mon May 04, 2020 11:31 pm

    Since Egypt was directly affected by the terrorism in Libya ,it supported LNA early in 2014 .

    Egyptian army schools started to receive libyan soldiers to study and train there , also Jordan trained some Libyan pilots .

    Regarding hardware ,Egypt,UAE,Jordan and Saudi Arabai are supplying arms to LNA . The photos of LNA showed Egyptian armored vehicles ,soldiers suits and armament .

    I guess French ships at the libyan coasts may helped to decrease the Turkish supplies to LNA but there is no full arms embargo and i think France sees the arab countries are enough to supply the needed arms to LNA . France role also is to unify most of EU countries against the Turkish moves in libya and the Mediterranean.

    The problem with Erdogan is that he is stupid enough to turn everyone around him to an enemy ,so he will suffer a lot in Libya .

    The unstable Libya , is heavily affecting the Egyptian national security , in the last few years more than 1000 vehicles which used by terrorists , were destroyed by EAF .

    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Mon May 04, 2020 11:35 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    Good questions, for a start are the French ships in Libyan territorial waters? Probably only the French military know that POTFMKT.

    What is the range of French EW? POTFMKT. Given its on a ship perhaps its optimised against AShM? POTFMKT. If so maybe shortish range but POTFMKT.

    Have the French Navy done any work against drones? POTFMKT. Why would they need to, their prime role is probably defending their carrier but POTFMKT.

    Have the air defence radars on the destroyers got the range to see inland drones? POTFMKT. Have the French shipborne SAMs got the range to hit drones inland in Syria? POTFMKT.

    What we can be pretty certain of is that a random French blogger probably doesn't know.

    I wasn't asking for such information. He stated that french actively attack turkish forces. Either he has some reliable source or he says what he thinks is the case. The first scenario is interesting the second not so much.

    French ships can be spoted like the turkish were seen in libyan waters. It never happened so they don't go inside libyan waters.

    There was articles reporting GNA getting angry over some Rafales flying above Libya last week. Intel collecting mission. No weapon used and could be Egyptian.

    Radar ranges are well known and if the drone fly low you can't detect them far away. Radars use the same physics of wave propagation and they can go over.

    New EW systems are not only capable against antiship missiles but lot of sort of electronic systems. French frigates may be able to jamm a drone but what matters is distance/power/frequency so if they are too far the system can jamm effectively. If the turks use directional datalink not directed at the french EW systems then they can be detected/jammed.
    ahmedfire
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    Post  ahmedfire on Mon May 04, 2020 11:48 pm

    medo wrote:
    Isos wrote:Turkey uses only drones and small laser guided munitions. France hasn't nothing to couter that. It's mostly Egypt and EAU that provide weapons to Aftar and Russia provides training and advisers.

    France does almost nothing to support Aftar. Maybe some intel'.

    You forgot Israel. Mossad also train and advice Haftar's LNA. Russians there are from private companies and paid by UAE.

    No , Israel is out of the scenario .
    George1
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    Post  George1 on Mon May 04, 2020 11:59 pm

    i wonder whether this conflict is actually sectarian, because from 2011 any part has great difficulty to prevail against the other
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Tue May 05, 2020 12:36 am

    George1 wrote:i wonder whether this conflict is actually sectarian, because from 2011 any part has great difficulty to prevail against the other

    It's sectarian, just not Sunni vs Shia. It's Salafists (GNA/Muslim Brotherhood) vs Wahaabists (LNA/Saudi aligned). Wagner may'be Russian, but it's grossly exaggerated how much Russian supports Halftard. 1.) Russian doesn't align itself with parties than promote regime change in Syria, that includes France, Saudi Arabia, UAE, etc. 2.) VVP publicly opposed the intervention in Libya, supported Gadaffi, and fully understands Halftard is largely responsible for the mess in the first place. You can't be the good guy (Halftard) if your the original progenitor of the clusterfuck. The whole Wagner influence is probably to get some more experience for the use of Russian PMC's in conflicts, and to regain some influence after Gaddaffi's death. Make no mistake the bozo Halftard (the greedy scumbag who put his country through a civil war just to get rich and gain power) is no ally to the Federation.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Tue May 05, 2020 10:39 am

    Actually if my who's who around here is correct, they are both Frenchmen

    I know but only one of them was being uncivilised and needed a word...

    Now that is class

    Embarassed just keeping the peace... Smile Move along... nothing to see here... Wink

    Ironically enough 'etiquette' is a French word commonly used in English.

    Took me ages to find the correct spelling of that damn word which was chosen on purpose... worth it though...

    Reminds me of leftists on facebook that point out grammar mistakes because they run out of arguments and are faced by arguments that prove they are totally wrong and make them stupid as fuck.

    It is bad form... suggesting that a typo or spelling error somehow makes everything someone says wrong is... wrong.

    You clearly have no clue what EW is and how to jamm a directed link that controls a military drone. There is plenty videos of turkish drones in Syria working very well. The ones that are downed and taken in picture show they were destroyed by missiles.

    Another thing is that a drone is like an aircraft on autopilot... if you jam it what you are actually doing is preventing it from sending information or from receiving information... so when a manned recon aircraft loses communication with its base and support aircraft it generally either continues to collect information and then fly home or just fly home while missions are planned to deal with the jammer so it does not repeat.

    Almost certainly why Garry chose the word.

    No getting anything by you mate... Smile


    That is french class and we are famous for that, im sure you know that.

    When properly exercised the manners of the French, they can be quite charming... I agree.

    You should travel to New Caledonia and spell a word wrong at our airport. You will be suprised how quick you get a quite direct correction.

    This is not an airport. This is a discussion forum... and this is a thread about Libya and you clearly understood what he meant, so correcting him was unnecessary, and totally off topic.

    @Isis, i assume then Erdogan has become so demented that he feels so attacked by us. (cant wait for the day we take him out for good)

    You say France has a problem with Turkey and Erdogan, but present photos of your leader hugging and kissing the man... your photos contradict what you are saying... surely France cannot be so two faced... so deceitful to want to undermine the government of a fellow HATO ally...

    Radar ranges are well known and if the drone fly low you can't detect them far away. Radars use the same physics of wave propagation and they can go over.

    Standard radar range against drones is very very poor, you need custom designed radar arrays to detect and track most drones because of their high plastic content and small size and also low speed and low altitude they normally operate at.

    It's sectarian, just not Sunni vs Shia.

    It is another of the wests war crimes... something they are paying for in terms of immigration into Europe but they won't acknowledge that because that would require they take some responsibility for their actions... which they never do.
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Tue May 05, 2020 12:00 pm

    The ships are there purely to deny some sea lanes, The French aren't downing any drones and to be far they don't need to.

    The UAE provided systems are more than capable of this task, Ero cannot oppose the systems that far from Turkey so Haftar has little to worry about in that regard.

    The French are doing things but it's behind the scenes stuff, nothing anyone would realize unless told.

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