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    US Air Force: Discussion and News

    LMFS
    LMFS

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    US Air Force: Discussion and News - Page 18 Empty Re: US Air Force: Discussion and News

    Post  LMFS Thu Sep 30, 2021 1:33 pm

    GarryB wrote:To be fair it was very easy for Russia to take the route they took because they simply could not waste that amount of money and resources on such things the way the US did.

    I thought it should be easier for the fair and democratic US to avoid crooks from ruling military procurement than for the corrupt Russian regime pwnd

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    Sujoy
    Sujoy

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    Post  Sujoy Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:21 pm

    LMFS wrote:Then the 76 units order came and your lot astutely crawled beneath the rocks they came out from, not to make it even clearer that they had been full of shit for the last 20 years. Now you say they cannot afford the plane, despite them ordering it in big amounts and proceeding at high pace with the further modernization of the design and ramp up of the production. Or that they increasing procurement of 4.5G planes, when the facts are the exact opposite.
    Russian Air Force should soon be able to routinely fly traditionally manned combat aircraft in tandem with unmanned aircraft. So maybe that's why Kremlin is not placing more orders for Su-57.

    Su-57, Su-30SM, Su-35 flying in tandem with a UCAV like Mig SKAT can penetrate even a difficult Air Defense network like the Chinese Air Defense.


    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS Fri Oct 01, 2021 6:28 am

    Sujoy wrote:Russian Air Force should soon be able to routinely fly traditionally manned combat aircraft in tandem with unmanned aircraft. So maybe that's why Kremlin is not placing more orders for Su-57.

    Su-57, Su-30SM, Su-35 flying in tandem with a UCAV like Mig SKAT can penetrate even a difficult Air Defense network like the Chinese Air Defense.

    Traditionally VKS places one order for an aircraft type and waits for its fulfilment, until a new order is placed. Happened with most tactical aircraft in Russia and is happening again with Su-57, the 76 units is actually quite a big order for Russian standards and is planed to be delivered at a pace which is also rather high (ca. 1 sqd per year) once the production line gets up to speed in 2-3 years. So the current order is to be fulfilled by 2028 and until then there is no factual basis to claim that VKS is withholding orders for the Su-57, quite the contrary.

    But of course, they are getting other options (Okhotnik and LTS mainly) to substitute the current fleet, composed mainly of Flankers in all its variants. Unmanned aircraft will be used more and more, and this applies even to normally manned platforms like the Su-57 or LTS, that can be made unmanned or optionally manned, too. An UCAV like Okhotnik or Skat are mainly strike and reconnaissance tools, but the air superiority role will be left to fighters, some of which quite probably will be mixed wings of manned and (increasingly) unmanned LTS, but maybe also mixed wings of manned and unmanned Su-57, the technical possibility has already been announced.

    Going forward, the cheaper platforms allow Russia to increase their fleet at a reduced cost, rather than threaten the numbers of Su-57, which were always relatively restricted (estimations of 200-250 units in the long term) as a highest end platform that is overkill for most missions. USAF themselves are talking about ca. 100 NGAD, why should Russia produce thousands of Su-57?

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    Isos
    Isos

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    Post  Isos Fri Oct 01, 2021 6:58 am

    Su-57 is a plateform, not a fighter. Just like su-27. They will produce it for the next 50 years in different variants and different upgrades. Build slowly but on a hard basis.

    F-35 is a scam. Once everyone paid for it they will invent another story about how they need actually a 7th gen fighter to counter the growing threat from Africa or from Mars because SpaceX consultants told them something is going on there.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Oct 02, 2021 12:16 am

    The Su-57 is a new design that is largely untested.... no country on the planet has deployed thousands of 5th gen fighters... more importantly attempting to do so with the F-35 will likely bankrupt the west... I think it is very much a case of transferal... what western experts are saying is that we don't need so many F-35s because they are going to bankrupt us... so our argument will be that Russia wont be buying many Su-57s so perhaps we don't need 3,500 F-35s... but the problem is that the Su-57 might not be that much more expensive than Su-35s and if they have better performance why not make a few hundred of them...

    How can the US justify making F-15s when Russia is producing Su-57s... especially when Su-35s are already clearly kinematically superior to F-15s already let alone the improved Su-57s with new engines....


    So of course they will cry that Russia can't afford Su-57s... just like they couldn't afford to radically upgrade their soldier kit to go from WWII stuff to the best HATO could provide in a decade or so... their Super Solider stuff is into its third generation which will be deployed in 2025 or so, which is not that far away... and their new vehicle families are ticking over quite nicely... and their navy production needed a lot of planning and ground work but now they are producing rather good ships... if the west had any brains they would be buying Gorshkov class frigates for themselves... Britain could do with a couple of dozen right now.

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    Sujoy
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    Post  Sujoy Sat Oct 02, 2021 3:46 am

    GarryB wrote:The Su-57 is a new design that is largely untested.... no country on the planet has deployed thousands of 5th gen fighters... more importantly attempting to do so with the F-35 will likely bankrupt the west... I think it is very much a case of transferal... what western experts are saying is that we don't need so many F-35s because they are going to bankrupt us... so our argument will be that Russia wont be buying many Su-57s so perhaps we don't need 3,500 F-35s... but the problem is that the Su-57 might not be that much more expensive than Su-35s and if they have better performance why not make a few hundred of them...
    Nice! We will now have to see what the optimum mix of manned and unmanned aircraft would be for the Russian Force now that RuAF fly traditionally manned combat aircraft in tandem with UAVs.

    It's also possible that one Su-57/Su-35/Su-34/Su-30 pilot will be able to control more than one UAV/UCAV like one Skat and one Okhotnik simultaneously. So the weapons package can also be distributed between 3 airborne platforms.

    Let's say it is a SEAD operation. So now the manned aircraft is not just carrying 10 air to surface missiles but is also controlling UCAVs that are carrying an equal number of air to surface missiles.
    Finty
    Finty

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    Post  Finty Sun Oct 17, 2021 4:34 pm

    A good read, throwback to 1999...

    https://nationalinterest.org/blog/reboot/are-americas-stealth-aircraft-invincible-192510
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:26 am

    Nice! We will now have to see what the optimum mix of manned and unmanned aircraft would be for the Russian Force now that RuAF fly traditionally manned combat aircraft in tandem with UAVs.

    The obvious problem there is that what suits the Russians might not suit anyone else... they might find their best solution is merely a fighter aircraft with a powerful AESA radar and L band array in the air with a couple of short range self defence missiles that gives complete radar coverage from sea level to the edge of space that provides target data for ground based missiles... including ancient obsolete ones that can be used to max range to shoot down drones and aircraft and cruise missiles...

    One fighter is limited by how many missiles it can carry and how long it can remain airborne, but having drones able to take off and land and refuel and rearm means the fighter can operate at moderate speed for long periods at medium to high altitudes and direct drones that can climb high and accelerate to high speed to launch missiles at targets... perhaps a ramjet powered drone able to supercruise and operate at high altitude so the fighters don't need to waste fuel climbing and accelerating to supersonic speeds to then have to slow down and descend to land and rearm and refuel.

    A good read, throwback to 1999...

    The irony is... that Serbian has learned to forgive the American who bombed his country and stole a large area of its land (Kosovo)... Wonder how many Americans would forgive Osama Bin Laden for 11/9 and be his friend... likely not many I suspect.

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