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    Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    kvs
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    Post  kvs Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:33 am

    The Yanisei will be a higher payload SHLV than the Energiya without using liquid hydrogen for the clustered first stage and even for
    the second stage. It will simplify the ground operations as with the Angara. The Energiya did not have the economics sense of the
    new URM designs from Russia. It was a 1960s era dinosaur designed when money was no object.

    The best fuel pair based on electronegativity would be fluorine and hydrogen. Good luck handling fluorine. Rocket design
    is more than just optimizing one parameter.

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    Post  George1 Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:23 pm

    The creation of the Russian Yenisei super-heavy launch vehicle has been suspended indefinitely. This was announced by the head of the Progress Rocket and Space Center Dmitry Baranov.

    According to Baranov, work on the Yenisei will be continued after a decision is made to correct the missile's appearance. Presumably, it will take several months, and work will resume no earlier than the middle of this year.

    https://en.topwar.ru/179874-sozdanie-sverhtjazheloj-rakety-enisej-priostanovleno.html
    The-thing-next-door
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    Post  The-thing-next-door Thu Feb 11, 2021 3:13 pm

    kvs wrote:

    The best fuel pair based on electronegativity would be fluorine and hydrogen.   Good luck handling fluorine.   Rocket design
    is more than just optimizing one parameter.


    Fluorine is great stuff, one wrong move and you have gassed the entire facility.

    George1 wrote:The creation of the Russian Yenisei super-heavy launch vehicle has been suspended indefinitely. This was announced by the head of the Progress Rocket and Space Center Dmitry Baranov.

    According to Baranov, work on the Yenisei will be continued after a decision is made to correct the missile's appearance. Presumably, it will take several months, and work will resume no earlier than the middle of this year.

    https://en.topwar.ru/179874-sozdanie-sverhtjazheloj-rakety-enisej-priostanovleno.html

    I get the impression that topwar.ru is a site of treasonous communists...

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    Post  kvs Thu Feb 11, 2021 3:37 pm

    The clowns are pulling these turd nuggets out of their biased asses. The Soyuz 5 will be built regardless since it is a direct
    Zenit replacement. The Angara modules do not fit this payload range and function. They have one RD-191 engine instead
    of the four-cluster RD-171MV. As I posted before, why the frell develop the RD-171MV if it is not going to be used.

    The talk about appearance redesign is a give away that this is non-news. The Soyuz 5 appearance will be similar to the Zenit
    for obvious reasons. The Yanisei is a derivative product of the Soyuz 5.

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    Post  owais.usmani Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:21 pm

    https://www.roscosmos.ru/30037/

    In February 2021, the workshops of the Progress Rocket and Space Center (Samara, part of the Roscosmos State Corporation) completed welding of the first stage oxidizer forecastle assembly for the experimental installation of the promising Soyuz-5 launch vehicle.

    Structurally, the forecastle consists of a lower bottom, four cylindrical shells with a diameter of 4 100 mm and a technological shell. This assembly is necessary to confirm the strength characteristics of the lower part of the tank "O". The tests will confirm the characteristics laid down in the design documentation.

    At present, the specialists of the testing area of ​​the aggregate-welding-assembly shop are preparing the forecastle for the Soyuz-5 launch vehicle for strength and tightness tests.

    ***

    The Soyuz-5 launch vehicle can be operated at different cosmodromes. So far, launches are planned from the complex at Baikonur within the framework of the Russian-Kazakh project "Baiterek". But Soyuz-5 will be able to launch from any cosmodrome - from Vostochny and Sea Launch - provided that an appropriate ground infrastructure is created: a technical position and a launch complex.

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    Post  GarryB Sat Feb 20, 2021 5:47 am

    @thethingnextdoor... I deleted your double post... I deleted the first one as the second one had the same information and extra in it making the first post redundant.

    Smile
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    Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News - Page 20 Empty First forecastle for Soyuz-5 rocket:

    Post  Scorpius Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:04 pm

    First forecastle for Soyuz-5 rocket:
    Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News - Page 20 5259839879

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    Post  owais.usmani Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:49 pm

    https://www.roscosmos.ru/media/pdf/russianspace/rk2020-09-single.pdf

    From the latest issue of "Russkiy kosmos": drawings of the planned crew access structure for Oryol on the Angara-A5 pad at Vostochnyy. Also to be used for emergency escape from the pad.

    Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News - Page 20 Oryol210
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    Post  owais.usmani Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:03 pm

    https://www.roscosmos.ru/30062/

    The Voronezh rocket engine building center (part of the integrated rocket engine building structure headed by NPO Energomash of the Roscosmos State Corporation) has successfully conducted the first fire test of the standard chamber of the RD-0124MS rocket engine, created at the enterprise for use in the second stage of the promising domestic launch vehicle Soyuz- five".

    The chamber is manufactured using units manufactured by the method of new technologies, which open up great opportunities for reducing labor intensity, increasing labor productivity and quality of manufacturing products in rocket engine building. During the test, one turn-on was carried out with a duration of 50 seconds at the rated thrust mode. The test program was completed in full.

    The rocket engine RD-0124MS with a thrust in the void of 60 tons runs on the fuel components "liquid oxygen + naphthyl" and is intended for use in the second stage of the Soyuz-5 rocket. It consists of two blocks located on a common frame, and each of the blocks includes two chambers. The engine provides rocking of the chambers in two planes, as well as work when one of the units is turned off, including at a reduced thrust mode.

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    Post  kvs Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:18 pm

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RD-0124

    RD-0124MS. A new Russian rocket engine with a thrust of 60 tons (533 kN), powered by naphthyl-liquid oxygen propellants. The engine consists of two blocks located on a common frame and a heat shield. Each consists of two diagonally located combustion chambers. The engine provides steering of the chambers in two planes, as well as able to work when one of the blocks is turned off. In development as of 2020 to power second stage of Soyuz-5 rocket.

    The original RD-0124 has a thrust of 294.3 kN. So we have a substantial upgrade.

    https://theuncoverreality.in/2020/12/13/first-rd-0124ms-engine-manufactured-in-voronezh-astronomy/

    I can't find any information about the actual configuration of this engine. It is stated almost everywhere that there will be
    two such engine assemblies used for the second stage of the Soyuz-5 but that would imply it is no a 4 nozzle construct
    but has 2 nozzles. There may be confusion stemming for the increased thrust so we are dealing with a single RD-0124MS
    instead of two.

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    Post  owais.usmani Tue Mar 02, 2021 11:04 am

    https://ria.ru/20210302/raketa-1599529588.html

    MOSCOW, March 2 - RIA Novosti. A new look of the Russian super-heavy carrier rocket has been determined, which can be used for flights to the moon, a source in the rocket and space industry told RIA Novosti.

    "The launch vehicle <...> is planned to be created according to a batch scheme: six side blocks around the central one - all with an RD-182 engine and an upper stage based on RD-0169," the agency's interlocutor said.

    Earlier in the presentation, CEO demonstrated NPO " Energomash " Igor Arbuzov th at the annual meeting of the collective enterprise, was mentioned RD-182 engine for the development of Russia's reusable rocket middle class "Amur-LNG". The video was published on the channel "Roscosmos TV" in YouTube .

    As a source explained to RIA Novosti, the Amur-LNG is planning to use a reusable RD-0169 engine with a thrust of 100 tons, and in a super-heavy rocket - a more lifting reusable RD-182 with a thrust of 250 tons.
    According to him, the initiative to switch to methane fuel from kerosene-oxygen belongs personally to the head of Roscosmos Dmitry Rogozin.

    In December 2020, Rogozin announced on Facebook that it was decided to revise the project of the Russian super-heavy rocket Yenisei. Instead of current technologies using oxygen-kerosene engines, it will use new technical solutions, which is why Angara missiles will be used in the first Russian manned missions to the Moon until 2032 . Vladimir Putin's decree stipulates that the first super-heavy rocket should be launched in 2028.
    Rogozin also reported that the new super-heavy rocket will be reusable - this principle is incorporated in the Amur-LNG project.
    In January 2021, the Space Council of the Russian Academy of Sciences recommended postponing the creation of a super-heavy rocket, since it is necessary to use breakthrough, promising and economically viable technologies.

    In February, Dmitry Baranov, general director of the Progress Rocket and Space Center (a Roscosmos enterprise), said that the technical design of the Yenisei rocket had been suspended due to the possibility of a correction of its appearance, which would be determined by the middle of the year.

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    Post  kvs Tue Mar 02, 2021 4:40 pm

    That means that there will be a substantial delay for the Yanisei. Seems that the reusability disease has afflicted the minds of the
    management. Bad news.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RD-120

    There is no RD-182 other than some 1990s proposals. The RD-0169 is supposed to be ready by 2025.

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    Post  PapaDragon Tue Mar 02, 2021 7:59 pm

    kvs wrote:That means that there will be a substantial delay for the Yanisei. Seems that the reusability disease has afflicted the minds of the
    management. Bad news.
    ....

    I told you that Rogozin's Musk-boner will cost them dearly

    Well at least they still have Angara (until he fucks that up as well)

    Keep in mind that Angara was made before Trampoline Man took over so his track record remains a solid zero

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    Post  miketheterrible Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:50 pm

    Looks like they will rely on Angara for a while then. Good at least Angara will be used more.
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    Post  GarryB Wed Mar 03, 2021 6:54 am

    That means that there will be a substantial delay for the Yanisei. Seems that the reusability disease has afflicted the minds of the
    management. Bad news.

    You could say the stealth disease led to such rubbish as the Su-57 and S-70 and soon the PAK DA...

    But the critical thing is they are not doing it right now... there is a delay because they want to get it working and right before they start posting videos of launch testing.

    The Buran was much better than the Space Shuttle in terms of resuability and was a fraction of the cost to use.

    It still made no sense to use it to shuttle goods and people to orbit, but for building a space station the Buran design meant components up to 120 tons could be placed on an Energyia rocket where the Buran normally goes and launched in one piece. Launching such enormous components at a time would have cut the needed launches to a fraction of what they actually sent up on various different rockets...

    The idea of having reusable parts is not bad, it has just been poorly implemented to date and has a bad name.

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    Post  owais.usmani Wed Mar 03, 2021 7:13 am

    Looks like Rogozin is aspiring to become the Elon Musk of Russia, not good for Russian space program.

    I think building a clean sheet rocket design with methane engines would take up so much time and money that they would ultimately abandon the idea. Russia's best and quickest bet for coming up with a super rocket is to complete Soyuz 5 asap and then strap multiple Soyuz 5 cores together to form the first stage of the HLV, all using RD-171.

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    Post  kvs Wed Mar 03, 2021 7:22 am

    owais.usmani wrote:Looks like Rogozin is aspiring to become the Elon Musk of Russia, not good for Russian space program.

    I think building a clean sheet rocket design with methane engines would take up so much time and money that they would ultimately abandon the idea. Russia's best and quickest bet for coming up with a super rocket is to complete Soyuz 5 asap and then strap multiple Soyuz 5 cores together to form the first stage of the HLV, all using RD-171.

    Looks like PD is right about Rogozin. Starting basically from scratch with methane is an incredible waste of resources.
    Nothing demands that the LNG rocket models have to take priority and cannot be a longer term thing. It is not a
    zero sum game.

    The comparison to the Su-57 is not valid. LNG gives less value in terms of propulsion. Developing multi-use engines
    will not be prevented by not pursuing this clean sheet design.

    Russia needs a Zenit replacement now and not 15 years from now. The Yanisei was basically a windfall from this
    project. Putin needs to recall Rogozin, he is going off the sanity reservation. Russia's space program is diseased
    with red director morons fcuking everything up.

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    Post  owais.usmani Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:46 am

    I read on another forum that up till now 3 billions rubles have already been spent by Roscosmos on designing a super heavy rocket using RD-171M in first stage. A change of concept means that all that money is wasted and they are back on drawing board. Mad

    Putin needs to step in and slap Rogozin out of Elon Musk wannabe fantasy. Let rocket designers do the rocket designing.

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    Post  Big_Gazza Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:48 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    kvs wrote:That means that there will be a substantial delay for the Yanisei.   Seems that the reusability disease has afflicted the minds of the
    management.   Bad news.
    ....  

    I told you that Rogozin's Musk-boner will cost them dearly

    Well at least they still have Angara (until he fucks that up as well)

    Keep in mind that Angara was made before Trampoline Man took over so his track record remains a solid zero

    In January 2021, the Space Council of the Russian Academy of Sciences recommended postponing the creation of a super-heavy rocket, since it is necessary to use breakthrough, promising and economically viable technologies.

    In reality, its just Rogozin signing off on the recommendations of others, but you can't resist the urge to puke yer hatred of the Great Trampoliner. Suspect

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    Post  Big_Gazza Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:53 am

    kvs wrote:Russia needs a Zenit replacement now and not 15 years from now.  

    Yes, and she is getting one. A kero-lox modernised Zenit analog aka Soyuz 5. First launch in 2023(ish). Nothing has changed.

    LNG/Soyuz-6 is an altogther different project. Not sure why knickers are getting twisted...
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    Post  Big_Gazza Wed Mar 03, 2021 12:04 pm

    owais.usmani wrote:Looks like Rogozin is aspiring to become the Elon Musk of Russia, not good for Russian space program.

    I think building a clean sheet rocket design with methane engines would take up so much time and money that they would ultimately abandon the idea. Russia's best and quickest bet for coming up with a super rocket is to complete Soyuz 5 asap and then strap multiple Soyuz 5 cores together to form the first stage of the HLV, all using RD-171.

    Firstly, I'll believe that Rogozin has become a Musk-level incompetent when he starts yabbering about his new "StarShip-ski" project and how his vehicle will be bigger than Musks and better in every way.... Ain't gonna happen, cuz Rogozin isn't a fool no matter what people choose to believe.

    Secondly, why does Russia need a SHLV built quickly? What payloads do they have over the next decade have that A-5M & A-5V can't launch? If the brains trust in the Academy of Sciences thinks they should slow down a little and incorporate more recent/new technologies then who are we to shit-can their suggestions? A few years delay for a superior product is a good tradeoff in my book, and the design work performed thus far won't be wasted as its still a large multi-module stack and much of the structurals and dynamic models will be reused with only small revisions.

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    Post  Scorpius Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:25 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:Looks like they will rely on Angara for a while then.  Good at least Angara will be used more.
    The Angara rocket should have a life cycle longer than that of a Proton-at least, according to representatives of the Khrunichev Center. So don't expect it to be canceled until 2080-2090.
    I am not sure that something so breakthrough will be developed during this period that chemical-fueled rockets will lose their relevance.

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    Post  Scorpius Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:29 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    Firstly, I'll believe that Rogozin has become a Musk-level incompetent when he starts yabbering about his new "StarShip-ski" project and how his vehicle will be bigger than Musks and better in every way....  Ain't gonna happen, cuz Rogozin isn't a fool no matter what people choose to believe.

    Secondly, why does Russia need a SHLV built quickly? What payloads do they have over the next decade have that A-5M & A-5V can't launch?  If the brains trust in the Academy of Sciences thinks they should slow down a little and incorporate more recent/new technologies then who are we to shit-can their suggestions?  A few years delay for a superior product is a good tradeoff in my book, and the design work performed thus far won't be wasted as its still a large multi-module stack and much of the structurals and dynamic models will be reused with only small revisions.

    in fact, if a gas-phase nuclear engine for the upper stage is developed, the A5V will have a load capacity of 100-150 tons at LEO.
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    Post  GarryB Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:49 am

    We can't criticise their decisions without knowing all the facts they have in front of them.

    For all we know they might think LNG is a resource they want to start using more of themselves and that future engine types might be able to use to more efficiently or effectively so they are changing to that now because it is where they intend to end up.

    The concept of reusable is sound, it has just been the implementation.

    That is why I mentioned stealth.... thinking it is some invisibility cloak that makes all your planes invincible and therefore all you current planes doing the job need to be replaced by something much much more expensive while not necessarily more capable is how you take a good idea and fuck it up.

    Something Musk is trying to do with reusable rockets that land the way they take off.

    I am sure with time the Russians can make it affordable and therefore useful.

    To become like Musk they would need to promise they will be launching things to Mars in 2 years time and every two years after that as Mars gets close to earth orbit...

    In fact delaying something to get it right and working is the opposite of what Musk does.

    Didn't he promise a magnetic levitating transport system based on a tube and eventually say the best technology to use is not plasma or magnets... it would be wheels... amazing.

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    Post  PapaDragon Thu Mar 04, 2021 4:59 am


    Simple question is why did they switch from RD-171M to RD-182?

    Is there some massive difference in thrust that would justify 15 years delay?

    Or is RD-182 just seen as more suitable for reusability?


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