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Israeli–Palestinian conflict:

PapaDragon

PapaDragon: Posts : 13432
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Post n°276

Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict:

PapaDragon Thu May 13, 2021 8:59 pm

bitcointrader70 wrote:....
Sorry but pantsir is a dud compared to Iron dome. And yeah Russia needs a mass launch system like iron dome. Maybe a pantsir with an extra truck just to store missiles.

Networked Pantsirs were getting the same job done in Hmeim AB couple of years back no problem, try keeping up with info

Iron Dome deals with slow dumb rockets with expended fuel falling on ballistic trajectory, Pantsir handles that without a problem (on top of it's regular job of shooting down fast manoeuvring targets)

miketheterrible likes this post

elconquistador

elconquistador: Posts : 505
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Post n°277

Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict:

elconquistador Thu May 13, 2021 9:42 pm

https://mobile.twitter.com/dancohen3000/status/1392957171026087937

Isos

Isos: Posts : 11523
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Post n°278

Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict:

Isos Thu May 13, 2021 10:07 pm

PapaDragon wrote:

bitcointrader70 wrote:....
Sorry but pantsir is a dud compared to Iron dome. And yeah Russia needs a mass launch system like iron dome. Maybe a pantsir with an extra truck just to store missiles.

Networked Pantsirs were getting the same job done in Hmeim AB couple of years back no problem, try keeping up with info

Iron Dome deals with slow dumb rockets with expended fuel falling on ballistic trajectory, Pantsir handles that without a problem (on top of it's regular job of shooting down fast manoeuvring targets)

The pantsir missiles are just a fraction of the cost of one israeli interceptor.

However iron dome is crdated to counter hamas level of bombing not a conventional milotary bombing. A group or brigade or whatever it is called of bm-21 can launch 700 rockets at once and they are faster than those hamas small rockets.

Also it is not really made to counter ballistic or cruise missiles which can easily yake out the radar.

We also need to see how it works in heavy jamming.

PapaDragon

PapaDragon: Posts : 13432
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Post n°279

Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict:

PapaDragon Thu May 13, 2021 10:25 pm

Isos wrote:.....
The pantsir missiles are just a fraction of the cost of one israeli interceptor. ...

Pantsir was killing MLRS rockets with gun rounds, it didn't need missiles

There is footage of it from Syria

No beating that bang for the buck

ahmedfire, Isos and miketheterrible like this post

Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E

Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E: Posts : 735
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Join date : 2016-01-20

Post n°280

Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict:

Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E Thu May 13, 2021 10:26 pm

Live from Gaza:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rP3zRh89Neo

Sujoy

Sujoy: Posts : 2372
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Post n°281

Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict:

Sujoy Fri May 14, 2021 6:39 am

Was going through some of the posts in this thread where members are suggesting that Russia needs a weapon system similar to Iron Dome.

To my mind, the only advantage of Iron Dome for Russia is that it creates conditions for enhanced freedom of action for decision makers. Iron Dome will ensure that they have time, and are not compelled to resort automatically to preemption and retaliation. That aside, this is an incredibly costly weapon. The cost of interception is high. The cost of the interceptor missile is about $40,000-50,000. Furthermore, in some cases, two interceptor missiles are fired at one target, which further raises the cost of interception.

https://www.inss.org.il/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/systemfiles/MASA5-1Eng4_Shapir.pdf

Furthermore, Iron Dome has a “saturation point.” It is capable of engaging a certain (unpublished) number of targets at the same time, and no more. Additional rockets fired in a crowded salvo could succeed in breaching defenses and cause damage. As the [Iron Dome] radar is forced to dwell on more rockets it has less time to scan for new objects and has to wait longer before returning to each rocket, which lessens the quality of the trajectory calculation.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/resrep16999.pdf?refreqid=excelsior%3A40427ce5c18c49a599ba46bdc772886c

ahmedfire

ahmedfire: Posts : 2291
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Join date : 2010-11-11
Location : The Land Of Pharaohs

Post n°282

Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict:

ahmedfire Fri May 14, 2021 7:00 am

119 Palestininas had been killed ,including 28 child and 11 women .

Random targeting of civilians on Gaza .

https://twitter.com/dailyaz1/status/1392874740306612224

Using phosphorus

https://twitter.com/Belalokasha97/status/1393032885267992579

Childs on panic while sleeping

https://twitter.com/dailyaz1/status/1392989525127880705

Israeli Air Force :
"During the night, more than 160 IAF fighter jets from 12 different squadrons attacked about 150 targets in underground infrastructure in the northern Gaza Strip.

https://twitter.com/dailyaz1/status/1393094302859997184

ahmedfire

ahmedfire: Posts : 2291
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Post n°283

Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict:

ahmedfire Fri May 14, 2021 7:07 am

@KreatelyOSINT

After making it clear that Israel is working on to establish a long-term peace, Israel now has rejected the proposal of the Egyptian negotiators for a truce with the Palestinian factions for a period of one year.

Egypt opens Rafah border crossing for admission of injured from Gaza Strip .

The Sinai Peninsula hospitals were switched to a round-the-clock operation and medics had their days off cancelled, as Gaza Strip hospitals fail under the influx of the injured.

https://tass.com/world/1289035

Last edited by ahmedfire on Fri May 14, 2021 7:20 am; edited 1 time in total

elconquistador

elconquistador: Posts : 505
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Post n°284

Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict:

elconquistador Fri May 14, 2021 7:12 am

Could the more well versed members in military affairs comment on Israel's success from a military point of view?

I am getting the idea that this is more of a punitative expedition than anything else (in line with the leaked Dahiyeh Doctrine, docs can be found on Wikileaks)

The number of slain enemies seems to be rather low so far and many of their targets are civilian infrastructure - apparantly chosen to break the will of the Palestinians/ take away domestic support for HAMAS.

nomadski

nomadski: Posts : 2999
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Post n°285

Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict:

nomadski Fri May 14, 2021 7:48 am

Some problems have no solutions. The present situation in Palestine is one of them. So we are left with the status quo. War and killing and expulsions and ethnic cleansing of Palestinians.

It seems to me that no outside power, including the resistance front, will intervene directly. So it is for the Palestinians to protect themselves. With what they have. It is easy to give advice, but difficult to carry out in practice.

The Palestinian houses have no shelter. The Usraeli houses do. If the Palestinians can dig tunnels for supply, then why can they not dig shelters? And why can they not build Rockets that evade interception? Easy to construct from non-metalic materials. And easy to give these Rockets slight Perturbations in flight path, to avoid interception. And easy to change warheads to pierce concrete, with present weight of warhead. The resistance front can supply them. By land and sea and Air ( drone supply)...

The At4 or SMAW anti-fortification warheads can be copied for Palestinian Rocket. Iraqis and Lebanese have access to these.

@ Elconquistadore

I think it is methodical annihilation or intelligent ethnic cleansing. When did we ever hear about a couple of Palestinian families who left to become refugee? The Usraelis carry out this genocide slowly, but methodically. So that the event goes under the Radar of news or public perception. I guess they learned their tricks from the Germans in WW2, where the Jews were under the impression, they were going on holiday in a train and many Germans and the world was ignorant of the Nazi crimes........

flamming_python

flamming_python: Posts : 9462
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Post n°286

Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict:

flamming_python Fri May 14, 2021 1:54 pm

With all that's going on internally and the reinvigoration of Palestinian identity across Israel, the West Bank, Gaza and beyond, I wonder if Mahmoud Abbas, the abator of nationalist Israeli colonization in his territory - has much time left

Or for that matter the collaborator of Israel in Jordan, King Startrek.

Like Abbas has done nothing but make statements during Israeli suppression of his people on West Bank territory, so too has Israeli action at the Al-Aqsa mosque undermined the authority of the Jordanians who are supposed to be the custodians there. They haven't done shit

Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E

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Post n°287

Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict:

Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E Fri May 14, 2021 2:10 pm

Hamas attacks IDF tanks and makes prisoners.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4h9kZElMKRI

ahmedfire

ahmedfire: Posts : 2291
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Location : The Land Of Pharaohs

Post n°288

Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict:

ahmedfire Fri May 14, 2021 4:00 pm

Al-qassam has published a video showing a drone attacking an Israeli chemical facility .

https://twitter.com/adham922/status/1393212398417465347
.....

ُEgyptian doctors are heading to Gaza to introduce help .

Israeli–Palestinian conflict: - Page 12 E1wnjk10

......

Some Jordanians tried to cross the borders to Palestine ,the IDF fired bullets to warn them but the Jordanian army fired back on IDF to protect them .

https://twitter.com/Alkharusi4040/status/1393213799268818947
......

@GNNANOW

Not confirmed ,the ambulance cars from Egypt which entered Gaza belong to the Egyptian army and some sources said if IDF targeted it that means a direct attack on the Egyptian army , if happened a quick fireback action will be taken .

nomadski likes this post

JohninMK

JohninMK: Posts : 15479
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Location : England

Post n°289

Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict:

JohninMK Fri May 14, 2021 5:04 pm

Alan MacLeod
@AlanRMacLeod
·
9h
Sometimes words can be deceiving while images tell the real story.

Israeli–Palestinian conflict: - Page 12 E1VTevjWEAEolW5?format=jpg&name=360x360

Israeli–Palestinian conflict: - Page 12 E1VTevjWEAEolW5?format=jpg&name=360x360

Israeli–Palestinian conflict: - Page 12 E1VTevpWEAAkmRt?format=jpg&name=medium

slasher likes this post

GarryB

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Post n°290

Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict:

GarryB Sat May 15, 2021 1:13 am

To my mind, the only advantage of Iron Dome for Russia is that it creates conditions for enhanced freedom of action for decision makers. Iron Dome will ensure that they have time, and are not compelled to resort automatically to preemption and retaliation.

Amusing people suggesting Russia needs Iron Dome... Russia is just fine and has all the tools it needs to defend itself from external threats.

Israel on the other hand has to worry about internal and external threats.

If you look at the maps above it is pretty clear to anyone what is happening...

Iron dome is something you use if you have not got an operational IADS and you need to wing it...

Isos

Isos: Posts : 11523
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Post n°291

Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict:

Isos Sat May 15, 2021 10:35 am

GarryB wrote:

To my mind, the only advantage of Iron Dome for Russia is that it creates conditions for enhanced freedom of action for decision makers. Iron Dome will ensure that they have time, and are not compelled to resort automatically to preemption and retaliation.

Amusing people suggesting Russia needs Iron Dome... Russia is just fine and has all the tools it needs to defend itself from external threats.

Israel on the other hand has to worry about internal and external threats.

If you look at the maps above it is pretty clear to anyone what is happening...

Iron dome is something you use if you have not got an operational IADS and you need to wing it...

Russian systems can target mortars/shells/rockets for a longtime now.

In the west that was impossible untill iron dome.

All togather it's a good system that answers a specifical need.

A single tor would be easier to overwhelm but it has other advantages like mobility and precision or lauch wheb moving.

Those are systems not some sort of magical stuff with superpower.

JohninMK

JohninMK: Posts : 15479
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Post n°292

Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict:

JohninMK Sat May 15, 2021 10:42 am

Sujoy wrote:Was going through some of the posts in this thread where members are suggesting that Russia needs a weapon system similar to Iron Dome.

To my mind, the only advantage of Iron Dome for Russia is that it creates conditions for enhanced freedom of action for decision makers. Iron Dome will ensure that they have time, and are not compelled to resort automatically to preemption and retaliation. That aside, this is an incredibly costly weapon. The cost of interception is high. The cost of the interceptor missile is about $40,000-50,000. Furthermore, in some cases, two interceptor missiles are fired at one target, which further raises the cost of interception.

Furthermore, Iron Dome has a “saturation point.” It is capable of engaging a certain (unpublished) number of targets at the same time, and no more. Additional rockets fired in a crowded salvo could succeed in breaching defenses and cause damage. As the [Iron Dome] radar is forced to dwell on more rockets it has less time to scan for new objects and has to wait longer before returning to each rocket, which lessens the quality of the trajectory calculation.

Presumably the ID radars are working their socks off trying to keep up. The obvious tactic, if you have the munitions, would be to pop a few radar homimg missiles into the attacking mix.

GarryB

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Post n°293

Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict:

GarryB Sat May 15, 2021 11:58 am

Presumably the ID radars are working their socks off trying to keep up. The obvious tactic, if you have the munitions, would be to pop a few radar homimg missiles into the attacking mix.

And that is the point... against a decent enemy it would be totally ineffective because it could be targeted directly.

Against a fenced in oppressed enemy that can't buy what they want or need then it can shoot down the odd target... and the lack of sophistication of the threat means even if a few get through odds are they wont be devastating...

Against a more competent enemy they would be in real trouble.

nomadski, Rasisuki Nebia and mavaff like this post

Rasisuki Nebia

Rasisuki Nebia: Posts : 134
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Post n°294

Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict:

Rasisuki Nebia Sat May 15, 2021 3:06 pm

Well at least Russia's public stance is the right one, unlike the stance of some Arabs who abandoned the Palestinians, Israel is not really looking to exterminate Hamas, Hamas existing serves many goals the Israeli's put out, the groups in Gaza said they can go on for 60 days non stop ... a hard (X)doubt on that one.

ahmedfire

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Post n°295

Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict:

ahmedfire Sat May 15, 2021 3:18 pm

Israeli hit on Gaza refugee camp kills 10, including 8 children
....

IAF destroyed aljala tower in Gaza ,the tower is used by journalists .

......

@Masrawy
1200 Egyptian doctor applied to go to Gaza hospitals .

.....

@alarabya

Egypt warned Usrael it will host Hamas families inside Egypt if the bombing continued on them .

Rasisuki Nebia

Rasisuki Nebia: Posts : 134
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Post n°296

Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict:

Rasisuki Nebia Sat May 15, 2021 3:24 pm

They bombed that Building 20-30 Minutes before the 60 minutes mark, the journalists barley escaped on time.

ahmedfire

ahmedfire: Posts : 2291
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Post n°297

Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict:

ahmedfire Sat May 15, 2021 3:25 pm

A direct hit and explosions on a power plant on Usrael ,ASHDOD city.

https://twitter.com/Mariuccio_75/status/1393502389789937665
....

Red circle Many parts of Ashdod lose power after Palestinian rocket impact.

https://twitter.com/MunshiSaqlein/status/1393500725053779972
...

Hamas fired 30 rocket today on Tel-Aviv ,Iron dome is sleeping .

https://twitter.com/ib_ree/status/1393520522303000576

....
Meanwhile in Ashdod port in Usrael today .

starman likes this post

Rasisuki Nebia

Rasisuki Nebia: Posts : 134
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Post n°298

Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict:

Rasisuki Nebia Sat May 15, 2021 3:28 pm

ahmedfire wrote:Israeli hit on Gaza refugee camp kills 10, including 8 children
....

IAF destroyed aljala tower in Gaza ,the tower is used by journalists .

......

@Masrawy
1200 Egyptian doctor applied to go to Gaza hospitals .

.....

@alarabya

Egypt warned Usrael it will host Hamas families inside Egypt if the bombing continued on them .

Egypt hosting Hamas families ? won't set well with many Egyptians as they believe Hamas are behind terrorist activates in Sinai peninsula.

ahmedfire

ahmedfire: Posts : 2291
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Post n°299

Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict:

ahmedfire Sat May 15, 2021 3:46 pm

As a conclusion in points :

Israeli AD completely failed today to intercept Hamas rockets over Tel-Aviv , they have maintainace problems to work in a long war.
https://twitter.com/ib_ree/status/1393520522303000576

Hamas has a bigger rockets on this war that can reach most of Usrael cities ,can fire them on big numbers and they know better now how to escape from IAF . Also Hamas started using suicide drones

The Egyptian and Jordnanian reactions are better and serious than last wars ,this is the first time Egypt warned to host Hamas families and to freeze other relations with Usrael .

Usrael can't protect their airports ,ports,power plants ,electricity lines and their entire cities.

As i said on post 234 Usrael is weak , in any war the country will completely shutdown ,anything there is exposed to even small rockets which could be fired in big numbers to exhaust any AD .

0 aircraft recorded over Usrael. Laughing

Israeli–Palestinian conflict: - Page 12 E1b7ke10

Last edited by ahmedfire on Sat May 15, 2021 3:52 pm; edited 1 time in total

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ahmedfire

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Post n°300

Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict:

ahmedfire Sat May 15, 2021 3:50 pm

Egypt hosting Hamas families ? won't set well with many Egyptians as they believe Hamas are behind terrorist activates in Sinai peninsula.

That's something different .Some members on Hamas may tried to support MB inside Egypt ,because Hamas needs a support ,it makes sense .

But the palestinian resistance existance is important to Egypt which considered Usrael as the first enemy .

Russia Defence Forum

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