Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    avatar
    Corrosion

    Posts : 185
    Points : 198
    Join date : 2010-10-19

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #6 - Page 23 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  Corrosion Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:37 am

    Flyingdutchman wrote:

    I didn't say Russia shot it down i said they played a big role in it, AS THEY ARE THE ONES THAT GIVE THOSE DAMN SAM SYSTEMS.

    And i agree with you about the air-traffic controller story.

    And the separatists are not defending 'their' cities, it is an ukrainian city....
    WOW.... This holier than thou attitude is what gets my goat.
    avatar
    Vann7

    Posts : 4838
    Points : 4940
    Join date : 2012-05-16

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #6 - Page 23 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  Vann7 Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:50 am

    sepheronx wrote:

    With the MRAM plant opening in Moscow (that 300mm wafer plant I mentioned in the science thread), and Elbrus 8C being tested already and Baikal with Rostec and Rusnano funding development of an 8 core ARM 64bit Cortex processor, chances are, all development will be done internally or with close partners like China.  Add in the fact that Russian companies have been trying to get into the domestic market for developing phones, tablets, etc. This will just boost sales.  Localizing development of the hardware, which is the processor at least and the memory, Russia can obtain the upper hand.  Only major thing missing will be the GPU side of things, and this is where China can come in handy.

    If Russia can keep internal competition between Baikal and MCST (maybe even privatizing MCST in the process), the Russian semiconductor industries will flourish.  Get China, India and Brazil involved in developing 3rd party components and software that is optimized under these architectures, and you will see a massive jump.  Only issue now is that China is interested in their lineup of processors.  Good thing though, is that Russian is RISC and CSIC (ARM/SPARC and Elbrus E2K) vs China's which is simply ARM and SPARC (both RISC).  So China may be interested in the CISC side of things from Russia.  RISC though is making a big comeback due to raw performance.

    Russia should invest in the semiconductor industry heavily and create a micro processor  that could compete with Intel or AMD.. There are 1,000 Russian engineers at Intel in top positions somewhere i read.. so Russia do have the talent. They need to lure their employees back.  And become a very strong nation in computing but also in digital electronics . Perhaps joining forces with India and China and perhaps IRAN that many claim they are very advanced in Nano electronics.
    Should be more than enough to develop state of the art personal computers.  Russia will sell like hotcakes 64 bits Operating systems and computers with similar performance of today computers..advertised as NSA free.. personal computers that American Intelligences companies cannot spy.  Another thing they need to work is Entertainment electronics like smartphones and Ipads like devices that everyone wants.. But also the software and gaming industry and movies.  Once Russia develops a strong entertainment electronics and software industry..with computer industry.you will start to see more and more nations more interested to join Russia trade association .
    Because Russia will not only sale the materials that nations needs to develop technology ,but also the things that modern business needs ,but also entertainment things that the family always want.
    Airbornewolf
    Airbornewolf

    Posts : 372
    Points : 432
    Join date : 2014-02-05

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #6 - Page 23 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  Airbornewolf Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:18 am

    medo wrote:
    Airbornewolf wrote:
    medo wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgS7-b3FLn8

    In this video is very important to note, that at 22:16 they point on Ukrainian military jet and it have altitude 36000 ft, what is around 12000 m, so it fly higher than airliner after shot down.

    its propably to avoid flying into the parts and pieces comming off of its "target". it circles around in the area after all after MH-17 goes down.

    they said the SU-25 can temporarily achieve 10.000 meters, but isnt 12.000 questionable?. that it perhaps was another type of fighter?.

    The general said probably Su-25, not it is Su-25. Mig-29 could have the same size on radar screen and for attack it could use only IRST with IR guided AAMs, that ELINT sensors could not detect its radar emission. More interesting are chaffs, it seems Ukrainian Buks use their tracking radars and maybe also lock on Ukrainian jet, who than launched chaffs. Maybe Ukrainians use the Buk to finish the job and that inspectors will search for Buk missile traces and ignore AAM traces.

    i agree, i would put my money on MIG-29 too then.  i found it  disturbing on the Radar-Data that MH-17 suddenly starts to lose altitude,speed and turns around as if making an emergency descent. it even makes sense MH-17 turns right if its left wing sustained damage to prevent the aircraft from turning on its side by loss of lift in its left wing. some airline pilots stated that one AA missile to the wing should not nessesarily be a death-sentence for such an large aircraft.  

    Qantas flight 32 made it back to the airport with full load after suffering an catastrophic engine explosion where parts flew everywhere. trough the upper wing, the fuselage, etc. tearing out various flight systems giving the pilots limited control. but they still landed safely.

    why launch your countermeasures unless there is an Radar-riding BUK headed in your direction right?.

    they would be very ignorant to just "look over" AAM damage traces. in air crash investigations they look over every part of the aircraft. and those pictures of horizontal shrapnell damage is for me a good indication of AAM shrapnell. but with this political bullshit going on who knows how "objective" and "thorough" this investigation will be.

    of course it means nothing unless officially confirmed, but im curious if Malaysia Airlines/goverment releases the voice cockpit recordings soon. it will bring a more clear picture what was going-on on board before the crash.


    Last edited by Airbornewolf on Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:24 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : mentioned wrong Qantas flight incident, flight 32 is A380 catastrophic engine explosion)
    avatar
    Firebird

    Posts : 1063
    Points : 1093
    Join date : 2011-10-14

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #6 - Page 23 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  Firebird Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:26 am

    [quote="sepheronx"][quote="magnumcromagnon"]
    sepheronx wrote:I posted this in the science development thread:
    MSFT/IBM Boomerang'd As Russia Retaliates, Prepares To Cease Imports Of US IT
    all those sacrifices the common Soviet/Russian citizen made (to neo-liberalize the economy and have good standing with the West) all for it to amount to nothing, as it's clear that officially the Cold War has restarting again, and it never really ended, it just went in to hibernation.

    that is what I was thinking too.  My father has been telling me this for years, as after the cold war, the dew lines were not really closed, but laid off workers, and it is a relic of the cold war still running. .

    Correct. Just as BRICS is developing. Just as Russia joins the WTO. Just as the Eurasian Union starts. Just as Russia gets Sochi and the World Cup. Just as De-dollarization begins to take effect. Just as America decides to leave Afghanistan and Iraq and have use for Russian logistics support. Then you have the Snowden affair etc.

    One big benefit is that Russia can capitalise on many many countries with anti-American feeling.
    Asia, Africa, particularly S America. AND some parts of Europe.
    NickM
    NickM

    Posts : 178
    Points : 123
    Join date : 2012-11-09
    Location : NYC,USA / Essex,UK

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #6 - Page 23 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  NickM Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:36 am

    Vann7 wrote:
    Russia should invest in the semiconductor industry heavily and create a micro processor  that could compete with Intel or AMD.. There are 1,000 Russian engineers at Intel in top positions somewhere i read.. so Russia do have the talent. They need to lure their employees back.  And become a very strong nation in computing but also in digital electronics . Perhaps joining forces with India and China and perhaps IRAN that many claim they are very advanced in Nano electronics.
    Should be more than enough to develop state of the art personal computers.  Russia will sell like hotcakes 64 bits Operating systems and computers with similar performance of today computers..advertised as NSA free.. personal computers that American Intelligences companies cannot spy.  Another thing they need to work is Entertainment electronics like smartphones and Ipads like devices that everyone wants.. But also the software and gaming industry and movies.  Once Russia develops a strong entertainment electronics and software industry..with computer industry.you will start to see more and more nations more interested to join Russia trade association .
    Because Russia will not only sale the materials that nations needs to develop technology ,but also the things that modern business needs ,but also entertainment things that the family always want.

    Utter Rubbish . Russia does NOT even have the technology to develop a Cyber Range and is trying to purchase it from Europe.
    arpakola
    arpakola

    Posts : 1510
    Points : 1542
    Join date : 2014-03-12
    Age : 53
    Location : Athens

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #6 - Page 23 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  arpakola Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:52 am

    Donetsk People’s Republic militiamen pass Boeing’s flight recorders to Malaysian experts - http://en.itar-tass.com/world/741716
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #6 - Page 23 1052636
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #6 - Page 23 1052635
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #6 - Page 23 1052634
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #6 - Page 23 1052633
    arpakola
    arpakola

    Posts : 1510
    Points : 1542
    Join date : 2014-03-12
    Age : 53
    Location : Athens

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #6 - Page 23 Empty Adopted the law on a ban of activity of communist party and dissolution of parliamentary fraction

    Post  arpakola Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:25 pm

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTWeN-8WX6g
    Adopted the law on a ban of activity of communist party and dissolution of parliamentary fraction. The only party which still remained in opposition to fascist parliament.


    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 29010
    Points : 29540
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #6 - Page 23 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  GarryB Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:14 pm

    I didn't say Russia shot it down i said they played a big role in it, AS THEY ARE THE ONES THAT GIVE THOSE DAMN SAM SYSTEMS.

    Yeah... the bastards... when you see a starving man, you obviously give him a Playstation 4... you don't give him food.

    What evidence do you have of Russia giving SA-11 systems?

    Do you think if they were giving the separatists sophisticated SAMs that they might actually be giving them more essential items like body armour and small arms and ammo... which they don't appear to be.

    With these facts and the fact that the equipment used by the rebels seems to either be civilian items or equipment taken from government forces that perhaps any SA-11 system in rebel hands could have been captured from Ukrainain government forces?

    So wouldn't that make the government in Kiev responsible... they claim their enemy are terrorists yet they allowed terrorists to capture a very sophisticated and capable air defence system... but you blame Russia.


    And the separatists are not defending 'their' cities, it is an ukrainian city....

    The people you are calling separatists are UKRAINIAN. The fact that they are mostly ethnically Russian Ukrainians rather than Polish Ukrainians is clearly a problem for you and the west.

    It seems that when western Ukrainians take up arms and overthrow a legitimately elected government then that is OK, but when eastern ukrainians choose not to accept this and no longer accept the legality of the government in Kiev they are suddenly terrorists?

    Why should they observe international law and codes of conduct when the western media couldn't give a fuck about the ukrainians killing ukrainians by the thousands with artillery and airstrike and only care about 290 people who tried to fly over the conflict in a plane.

    It reminds me of Lockarbie... most couldn't care less about the roots of the cause of that attack... the Iranian airbus shoot down which went totally unpunished and largely ignored in the west.

    Utter Rubbish . Russia does NOT even have the technology to develop a Cyber Range and is trying to purchase it from Europe.

    Have you not be paying attention... Russia has also invested a large sum of money on a range of UAV and UCAV designs, yet at the same time has purchased Israeli UAVs too.

    If there was no interest at all in the technology they would not even bother buying it.

    Generally if they are buying technology they will be using it as a basis either to further develop it themselves or just to mass produce it for its own use. Thermal imagers is a clear case in point too. They spent a large amount of money on French and Swedish thermal cameras but the most popular for export to allies was the Thales Catherine system, so they bought the production rights and later also bought the rights to the 3rd gen Catherine system too and now they incorporate much of that technology in their domestic models. They didn't steal the technology... they bought it and then built upon it.
    arpakola
    arpakola

    Posts : 1510
    Points : 1542
    Join date : 2014-03-12
    Age : 53
    Location : Athens

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #6 - Page 23 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  arpakola Tue Jul 22, 2014 2:08 pm

    magnumcromagnon
    magnumcromagnon

    Posts : 7326
    Points : 7475
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #6 - Page 23 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  magnumcromagnon Tue Jul 22, 2014 2:34 pm

    arpakola wrote:Donetsk People’s Republic militiamen pass Boeing’s flight recorders to Malaysian experts - http://en.itar-tass.com/world/741716
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #6 - Page 23 1052636
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #6 - Page 23 1052635
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #6 - Page 23 1052634
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #6 - Page 23 1052633

    You gotta love the chauvinist/jingoistic black propaganda that's spewed from Western news outlets about how Pro-Russian rebels are 'terrorists', despite the overwhelming fact that the U.S. sponsored terrorism against their enemies like the Muslim Brotherhood against Nasser of Egypt, Osama bin Laden against the Soviets in Afghanistan, Al Qaeda affiliated groups against Gaddafi in Libya, and Assad in Syria (and at least two U.S. presidents were close allies of the Ku Klux Klan, Woodrow Wilson and Harry Truman who caused the Cold War). Meanwhile the Pro-Russian rebels are on record helping civilians evacuate from areas where Kiev soldiers were shelling with reckless abandonment, humanely taking care of POW's and even letting free Kiev soldiers who didn't want to fight in Eastern Ukraine, and now cooperating with the Malaysian investigators and handing the black box's over, as opposed to the "Moderate Opposition" like the FSA in Syria that's on record beheading Christian priests in Syria...yes they're so moderate and not extreme that they pick up RPG's to fight their government (because political radicals and or extremists don't do that, only moderates do  Rolling Eyes dunno).
    avatar
    Firebird

    Posts : 1063
    Points : 1093
    Join date : 2011-10-14

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #6 - Page 23 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  Firebird Tue Jul 22, 2014 3:09 pm

    Flyingdutchman wrote:

    And the separatists are not defending 'their' cities, it is an ukrainian city....

     
    I always thought Holland had better mental health care ...
    Evidently not tho .. No 

    Wasn't this comedian banned?
    arpakola
    arpakola

    Posts : 1510
    Points : 1542
    Join date : 2014-03-12
    Age : 53
    Location : Athens

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #6 - Page 23 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  arpakola Tue Jul 22, 2014 3:33 pm

    Firebird wrote:
    Flyingdutchman wrote:

    And the separatists are not defending 'their' cities, it is an ukrainian city....

     
    I always thought Holland had better mental health care ...
    Evidently not tho .. No 

    Wasn't this comedian banned?

    No banning .. thats M.Ph. way of dealing issues
    Werewolf
    Werewolf

    Posts : 5288
    Points : 5489
    Join date : 2012-10-24

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #6 - Page 23 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  Werewolf Tue Jul 22, 2014 3:58 pm

    No we have the paradoxon method of tryint to help him grow some brain cells, but like the old saying, "Where nothing, is nothing can grow."
    medo
    medo

    Posts : 4094
    Points : 4178
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #6 - Page 23 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  medo Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:12 pm

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #6 - Page 23 Origin14

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #6 - Page 23 Origin15

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #6 - Page 23 B77710

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #6 - Page 23 B777a10

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #6 - Page 23 14060210

    I think this series of pictures is quite interesting. Many people think, that Buk missile hit from the front right side, but I think it was a missile, that hit from the back left side. Horizontally are places of impact on the left wing and the cockpit in line. On the wings it could be seen, that the lines of missile fragments are opening from the back to the front side of wing. We could than see the left side of the cockpit plate, where is one bigger hole and a lot of smaller fragments holes and then a part at the window (front maybe?) which have a large hole, practically all the plate is destroyed and the holes are from inside to outside. I'm not sure, if this is from Buk missile, but I also doubt it is R-60 from Su-25. This must be from my opinion R-73 or R-27T from a fighter shadowing airliner from behind. Fragments are really oriented like with shot gun and I think Buk's warhead work more spherically.
    flamming_python
    flamming_python

    Posts : 4384
    Points : 4468
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #6 - Page 23 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  flamming_python Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:43 pm

    Flyingdutchman wrote:I didn't say Russia shot it down i said they played a big role in it, AS THEY ARE THE ONES THAT GIVE THOSE DAMN SAM SYSTEMS.

    I think it's likely that the rebels shot it down, but

    a). We don't know that with any certainty yet
    b). There is certainly no indication that Russia gave the rebels any sort of SAM system. That's a narrative, that was actually sneakily inserted by several governments - on the back of all this frenzied hysteria. Rebels shot it down? Probably. Russia supplied the rebels with SAMs? A completely separate question, and one that there is no evidence for whatsoever.

    And the separatists are not defending 'their' cities, it is an ukrainian city....

    That's right, the rebels are Ukrainians, and they and their Ukrainian cities, and their Ukrainian populations want to seperate from this country - called the Ukraine. Capiche?
    Viktor
    Viktor

    Posts : 5814
    Points : 6449
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 40
    Location : Croatia

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #6 - Page 23 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  Viktor Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:14 pm

    EU again failed US and decided not to place serious sanctions on Russia thumbsup 

    Media: EU may impose sanctions that restrict access to the RF finrynka
    arpakola
    arpakola

    Posts : 1510
    Points : 1542
    Join date : 2014-03-12
    Age : 53
    Location : Athens

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #6 - Page 23 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  arpakola Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:14 pm

    avatar
    etaepsilonk

    Posts : 707
    Points : 687
    Join date : 2013-11-19

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #6 - Page 23 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  etaepsilonk Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:47 pm

    Situation in Ukraine explained in the simplest way:
    Spoiler:
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #6 - Page 23 BsP4kJlCcAEdfvz
    avatar
    Austin

    Posts : 7618
    Points : 8015
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #6 - Page 23 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  Austin Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:10 pm

    Guys do we have pictures of Ukraine Su-25 carrying Air to Air Missiles ?

    Any pictures will be great ... Thanks
    Regular
    Regular

    Posts : 2427
    Points : 2411
    Join date : 2013-03-10
    Location : Western Hemisphere.. mostly

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #6 - Page 23 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  Regular Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:16 pm

    Any comments?
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #6 - Page 23 VqZ5rqr
    medo
    medo

    Posts : 4094
    Points : 4178
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #6 - Page 23 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  medo Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:37 pm

    Regular wrote:Any comments?
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #6 - Page 23 VqZ5rqr

    I agree, it's the same location. Also there is no trolleybus wires, only usual electricity wires. Question is, which location it is and when it was pictured (in the picture with Buk, not all trees are green).
    Werewolf
    Werewolf

    Posts : 5288
    Points : 5489
    Join date : 2012-10-24

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #6 - Page 23 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  Werewolf Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:56 pm

    Now the US gone on another rampage, since they lost the case in MH17, making accusations it was the russians, then reported russian terrorists are taking the black box away and sending it to russia, they taking bodies away to hide something and all the other lies the West spits out. Since they lost this case big time after Malaysia recieved the Black Box from Anti-Kiew forces, they roll over again the Litvinenko case to spread more russophobia. But no one tries to even investigate the murder of Yaser Arafat who was poisoned by Polonium, a palestinian the enemy Jews and ZioNazis.

    Edit:

    The picture that was posted here before on Page 15

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #6 - Page 23 Gu0vcs10



    Like it seams i was right, they do not equip the backside of the turret with ERA.

    Graphic!
    avatar
    Vann7

    Posts : 4838
    Points : 4940
    Join date : 2012-05-16

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #6 - Page 23 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  Vann7 Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:36 pm

    [quote="medo"]
    Regular wrote:Any comments?


    I agree, it's the same location. Also there is no trolleybus wires, only usual electricity wires. Question is, which location it is and when it was pictured (in the picture with Buk, not all trees are green).

    If you look at the video posted earlier of Russian Radars recorded information ,you will listen when Russia military
    says that picture is from an ukrainian city , not Russia.. and the exact location is even written in full color on the
    sign of the car. 100% Ukrainian city and in a controlled region by kiev. Look back again the video is interesting .
    Sujoy
    Sujoy

    Posts : 1293
    Points : 1451
    Join date : 2012-04-02
    Location : India || भारत

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #6 - Page 23 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  Sujoy Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:38 pm

    The U.S says that they have Satellite images of the BUK firing a missile towards MH-17 .

    If this assertion is true , why is the U.S not releasing those Satellite images ?
    Zivo
    Zivo

    Posts : 1488
    Points : 1514
    Join date : 2012-04-13
    Location : U.S.A.

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #6 - Page 23 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  Zivo Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:43 pm

    Sujoy wrote:The U.S says that they have Satellite images of the BUK firing a missile towards MH-17 .

    If this assertion is true , why is the U.S not releasing those Satellite images ?

    What's wrong Sujoy, are you not convinced by their social media proof?

    Sponsored content

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #6 - Page 23 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Sat May 15, 2021 8:03 am