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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #6

    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:47 pm

    The most widespread air-defense weapons among the Pro-Russian rebels are MANPAD's, unless it was planning on landing in Ukraine the likeliness that MANPADS caused the crash is pretty slim, more likely Ukrainian Tunguska, Osa, Buk, or S-300 complex shot it down.
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    Post  Vann7 Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:52 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:The most widespread air-defense weapons among the Pro-Russian rebels are MANPAD's, unless it was planning on landing in Ukraine the likeliness that MANPADS caused the crash is pretty slim, more likely Ukrainian Tunguska, Osa, Buk, or S-300 complex shot it down.

    What is even more suspicious is the claim of Ukraine days ago that Russia Shot down a military plane in their
    airspace.. and the reports that Russia presidential plane was flying in a similar route of the malasyan plane.
    This are all the pieces in place to justify Ukraine retaliation on Putin Presidential Plane for their downed plane.

    The entire $5 billions given to Ukraine by the US congress ,was all about moments like this. To have a minority
    of radical neonazis in Ukraine in power ,to start an ethnic cleasing of ethnic on civilians to lure Russia into a vietnam war and get Ukraine to fight Russia and even to attempt an attack on Russia President life.

    I really hope from now on ,Russia wake up ,return to the real world and no longer see the west as their partners and realize there is a real war on them ,and that it will be a matter of time that Russia will have its Pearl Harbor but this time it will be not Japanesse attack but Ukrainians. Why i think Russia needs to active to the maximun security the security of its nation and airspace. and protect their military bases and Important facilities like Sochi or nuclear reactors ,because there is a war going on already from US against Russia . just that is very soft war ,but could become a full scale one in no time.  Imagine what will have happened if Putin is killed by Ukraine missile?  This is what is sickening of Russia actions they are so behind everything and not 2 steps ahead of the moment..  After Crimea ,they suddenly lowered their guards .and do not see a major attack against Russia could happen at any time by proxy from Ukraine. The Ukies attack on that Civilian plane could have NEVER happened without the full permission of the US state department.. because in case of any tragedy ,they will be the ones that will provide
    political support to Ukraine and only US can help the kiev junta to get away with their War Crimes.


    Last edited by Vann7 on Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:07 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    Post  Werewolf Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:55 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:The most widespread air-defense weapons among the Pro-Russian rebels are MANPAD's, unless it was planning on landing in Ukraine the likeliness that MANPADS caused the crash is pretty slim, more likely Ukrainian Tunguska, Osa, Buk, or S-300 complex shot it down.

    If we know the altitude of the plane when it was hit then we know what systemes could be used and what systemes not.

    Strelkov posted that according to eyewitnesses the airliner was shot down from an aircraft of Ukropy army.

    http://vk.com/strelkov_info?w=wall-57424472_7331

    "Малазийский лайнер был сбит украинским штурмовиком
    Воздушное пространство над Луганской и Донецкой Республиками закрыто правительством Украины.
    Нарушение малазийским лайнером могло произойти по двум причинам: 1) провокация со стороны Украины; 2) ошибка диспетчера.

    Любое судно по нормативным актам должно быть сбито ПВО страны, чье воздушное пространство оно нарушило.

    Очевидцы, наблюдавшие полет пассажирского самолета Боинг 777, наблюдали атаку на него штурмовика ВВС Украины. После чего пассажирский самолет раскололся на две части в воздухе и упал на территории ДНР. После атаки украинский штурмовик был сбит и упал на территории ЛНР в районе Красного Луча. На данный момент ведутся поиски сбитого самолета".


    Also according to this picture that are all the current flight paths for airliners, except of one little Malaysian jet.

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #6 - Page 13 TITZualyiJg
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    Post  Firebird Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:59 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Firebird wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    As Sa'iqa wrote:I am getting more and more convinced that if Ukraine does not manage to defeat the seps till the end of july, Poland should send it's forces. Two brigades on KTO Rosomak + brigade on Leo2A4 should suffice.

    So Poland could have it's ass handed to them by Russia for the 6791789181898 time?

    Yeah the Poles could drive them to Hohol-land Lvov themselves. Except they're all too business cleaning toilets over in England...

    according to Radioslaw Sikorski, Poles are too busy smoking American sausages in those bathrooms, they'll be little room or time to clean them..

     Correct lol1 

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    Post  Intrigado Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:01 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:The most widespread air-defense weapons among the Pro-Russian rebels are MANPAD's, unless it was planning on landing in Ukraine the likeliness that MANPADS caused the crash is pretty slim, more likely Ukrainian Tunguska, Osa, Buk, or S-300 complex shot it down.

    Itar-Tass reported about three weeks ago that "Self-defence forces of the Donetsk People’s Republic have taken control over a missile defence army unit equipped with Buk missile defence systems, the press service of the Donetsk People’s Republic told Itar-Tass on Sunday.

    So far, no details are available about the number and condition of the missile systems taken over by the self-defence forces. The press service refused to comment.

    The Buk missile defence system is a mobile medium-range surface-to-air missile (SAM) system designed to defend field troops and logistics installations against air threats in conditions of heavy electronic countermeasures and intense enemy fire."

    http://en.itar-tass.com/world/738262
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:06 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:The most widespread air-defense weapons among the Pro-Russian rebels are MANPAD's, unless it was planning on landing in Ukraine the likeliness that MANPADS caused the crash is pretty slim, more likely Ukrainian Tunguska, Osa, Buk, or S-300 complex shot it down.

    If we know the altitude of the plane when it was hit then we know what systemes could be used and what systemes not.

    Strelkov posted that according to eyewitnesses the airliner was shot down from an aircraft of Ukropy army.

    http://vk.com/strelkov_info?w=wall-57424472_7331

    "Малазийский лайнер был сбит украинским штурмовиком
    Воздушное пространство над Луганской и Донецкой Республиками закрыто правительством Украины.
    Нарушение малазийским лайнером могло произойти по двум причинам: 1) провокация со стороны Украины; 2) ошибка диспетчера.

    Любое судно по нормативным актам должно быть сбито ПВО страны, чье воздушное пространство оно нарушило.

    Очевидцы, наблюдавшие полет пассажирского самолета Боинг 777, наблюдали атаку на него штурмовика ВВС Украины. После чего пассажирский самолет раскололся на две части в воздухе и упал на территории ДНР. После атаки украинский штурмовик был сбит и упал на территории ЛНР в районе Красного Луча. На данный момент ведутся поиски сбитого самолета".


    Also according to this picture that are all the current flight paths for airliners, except of one little Malaysian jet.

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #6 - Page 13 TITZualyiJg

    As I already stated the Russian side has several OTH radars which would be recording European aerospace traffic, aerospace that is always under heavy surveillance...in all likeliness they would know!
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:13 pm

    Intrigado wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:The most widespread air-defense weapons among the Pro-Russian rebels are MANPAD's, unless it was planning on landing in Ukraine the likeliness that MANPADS caused the crash is pretty slim, more likely Ukrainian Tunguska, Osa, Buk, or S-300 complex shot it down.

    Itar-Tass reported about three weeks ago that "Self-defence forces of the Donetsk People’s Republic have taken control over a missile defence army unit equipped with Buk missile defence systems, the press service of the Donetsk People’s Republic told Itar-Tass on Sunday.

    So far, no details are available about the number and condition of the missile systems taken over by the self-defence forces. The press service refused to comment.

    The Buk missile defence system is a mobile medium-range surface-to-air missile (SAM) system designed to defend field troops and logistics installations against air threats in conditions of heavy electronic countermeasures and intense enemy fire."

    http://en.itar-tass.com/world/738262

    Yes I know, but the number of Buk's in rebel hands are far fewer, and it's more likely the missile was fired from Kiev forces.
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    Post  Vann7 Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:15 pm



    President Putin's plane might have been the target for Ukrainian missile - sources

    http://rt.com/news/173672-malaysia-plane-crash-putin/

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #6 - Page 13 20

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    Post  magnumcromagnon Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:22 pm

    The silence is deafening, no official U.S. statement so far that I know of. Jen "Nutz" Psaki is no where to be found!
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    Post  Werewolf Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:26 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:The silence is deafening, no official U.S. statement so far that I know of. Jen "Nutz" Psaki is no where to be found!

    This time it will be either John Jew Kohn or the new blonde they somewhere digged up.
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:33 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:The silence is deafening, no official U.S. statement so far that I know of. Jen "Nutz" Psaki is no where to be found!

    This time it will be either John Jew Kohn or the new blonde they somewhere digged up.

    ...If it's not Nutz-Psaki, then I'll be disappointed. I'm still waiting for her to go in depth about how she came to discover the geographical location and geological formation of the Belarus coastline. Embarassed
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    Post  TR1 Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:39 pm

    She already spoke, and just said her condolences, not much else.
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    Post  Intrigado Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:46 pm

    John McCain spoke too or more exactly he went on a rampage: criminals, there will be hell to pay, stuff like this.
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    Post  Firebird Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:48 pm

    I'm wondering, this sounds like another scam.
    The hohols shoot down an airliner. Then ask for a ceasefire to "determine the facts".
    Then use the ceasefire to pull their troops out of the Southern cauldron.

    I'd tell them to get fucked. Every time they take a hit they offer a ceasefire, so they can regroup and kill more Donbass resistance.

    Donbass MUST finish off the southern cauldron before any ceasefires.
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    Post  Intrigado Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:49 pm

    ...and Israelian army entered the Gaza strip tonight. What else could go wrong, I wonder?  cry 
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    Post  arpakola Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:52 pm

    Vann7 wrote:

    President Putin's plane might have been the target for Ukrainian missile - sources

    http://rt.com/news/173672-malaysia-plane-crash-putin/

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #6 - Page 13 20


    http://www.defencenet.gr/defence/item/%CF%83%CF%84%CF%8C%CF%87%CE%BF%CF%82-%CE%AE%CF%84%CE%B1%CE%BD-%CE%B2%CF%80%CE%BF%CF%85%CF%84%CE%B9%CE%BD-%CF%80%CE%AE%CE%B3%CE%B1%CE%BD-%CE%BD%CE%B1-%CF%80%CF%81%CE%BF%CE%BA%CE%B1%CE%AD%CF%83%CE%BF%CF%85%CE%BD-%CE%B3-%CF%80%CF%80

    confirmed
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    Post  Firebird Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:54 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Intrigado wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:The most widespread air-defense weapons among the Pro-Russian rebels are MANPAD's, unless it was planning on landing in Ukraine the likeliness that MANPADS caused the crash is pretty slim, more likely Ukrainian Tunguska, Osa, Buk, or S-300 complex shot it down.

    Itar-Tass reported about three weeks ago that "Self-defence forces of the Donetsk People’s Republic have taken control over a missile defence army unit equipped with Buk missile defence systems, the press service of the Donetsk People’s Republic told Itar-Tass on Sunday.

    So far, no details are available about the number and condition of the missile systems taken over by the self-defence forces. The press service refused to comment.

    The Buk missile defence system is a mobile medium-range surface-to-air missile (SAM) system designed to defend field troops and logistics installations against air threats in conditions of heavy electronic countermeasures and intense enemy fire."

    http://en.itar-tass.com/world/738262

    Yes I know, but the number of Buk's in rebel hands are far fewer, and it's more likely the missile was fired from Kiev forces.

    Plus, the Resistance have infinitely less in the way of radar. And any Russian radar assistance would be much better quality. The Ukraine's incompetence re the S8 airliner (not to mention Right Sector's mentality) speaks volumes.

    I suspect a Ukr air to air missile may have been pretty likely.

    Its all a bit staggering tho that the 100s of Russian speaking civillians dont matter to the US and cronies. But the 280 on the jet mean massive condemnation and blame being hurled at Russian speakers.
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    Post  Vann7 Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:58 pm

    HAHAHA the Poroshenko Government is already contradicting itself..
    They first say the Rebels shot down the plane with a BUK system they got..
    but they are the ones who have the international responsibility to protect international flights
    of civilians planes.. if Poroshenko is now saying the Rebels have the capabilities to shoot down
    very high altitude planes.. they why his government did not ordered its Air traffic controllers to drive away
    any international civilians flights from Rebels controlled airspace?  Ehh.. ehh.. ermm.. Wink  LOL

    Airtraffic controllers job is precisely  provide a safe route for civilians airlines . So if what Poroshenko claims
    is true that the Rebels shot down the civilian plane with a Buk system.. then why his government air traffic controllers allowed international air flights to flight over so dangerous zone?  

    Unless of course they on purpose were leading International air flights through a war zone with the sole
    intent to get them shot down and later blame the Rebels.  Wink  In Short Poroshenko claims that Rebels had the
    capabilities to shot down very high altitude planes ,raise the question why his government did nothing to drive
    international air flights away of a war zone?  Wink 

    The silence of the white house ,means they are trying to see ,what information Russia have first ,before commenting on anything so they could create a solid case against Rebels and Russia.

    In any judicial court ,if what Poroshenko claims are true (which are not). It will be enough to get criminal charges
    against Ukraine. For intentionally luring international civilians planes into a war zone to try to use the lives of hundreds of civilians ,to earn world sympathy on a criminal war they are leading in eastern ukraine...

    1)Do the Rebels have motives to shoot down a malasyan civilian plane? NO..
    i bet noone in the independent forces knows where malasya is located and who live there.
    2)Does Russia have motives to shoot down a malasyan civilian airplane and something to earn? NO.
    3)Does Ukraine have something to gain from leading International flights on a war zone for Rebels to shoot it down  YES..   To gain world support with their Criminal war .

    But so far it is also possible that also what happened is Kiev RIght sector pilots believed the plane what the presidential Plane of Putin and attacked it from distance.. because apparently both planes were on same route and both planes the Malasyan and Presidential flew just minutes away of distance.


    Last edited by Vann7 on Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  Strizh Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:12 pm

    I hope that there wont be any truce they must destroy/capture the encircled troops!!!!!!
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:12 pm

    Just to let people know Kiev declared a "No Fly Zone" over Eastern Ukraine on July 8th:

    The Ukrainian civil aeronautical service had closed on July 8 airspace east of the country, following the fighting against pro-Russian separatists, allowing the transit of aircraft only above 7900 meters. The Malaysian Boeing was flying at 10 thousand feet of altitude.

    http://www.ansa.it/sito/notizie/mondo/2014/07/17/aereo-di-linea-malese-caduto-in-ucraina_3ca655eb-a994-4bcd-9d85-cd9f2e15a365.html

    Apparently the flight altitude was at 10,000 feet which translates to an altitude of 3km, and Kiev's No Fly Zone only allows transit over it's air space at a altitude of 8km.
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    Post  Hannibal Barca Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:21 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:The silence is deafening, no official U.S. statement so far that I know of. Jen "Nutz" Psaki is no where to be found!

    This time it will be either John Jew Kohn or the new blonde they somewhere digged up.

    ...If it's not Nutz-Psaki, then I'll be disappointed. I'm still waiting for her to go in depth about how she came to discover the geographical location and geological formation of the Belarus coastline. Embarassed

    She is with me, read above  Razz 
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    Post  Intrigado Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:30 pm

    It looks like an Ukrainian official said they got proof about the GRU's involvement in shooting down the plane.
    If someone knows Russian, a Moldovan site posted a video saying that it's about two Russian officials talking among themselves moments after the plane crashed.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5E8kDo2n6g

    So sorry for the victims and I truly hope their death won't be used to bring about more death in that benighted region.
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:30 pm

    Firebird wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Intrigado wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:The most widespread air-defense weapons among the Pro-Russian rebels are MANPAD's, unless it was planning on landing in Ukraine the likeliness that MANPADS caused the crash is pretty slim, more likely Ukrainian Tunguska, Osa, Buk, or S-300 complex shot it down.

    Itar-Tass reported about three weeks ago that "Self-defence forces of the Donetsk People’s Republic have taken control over a missile defence army unit equipped with Buk missile defence systems, the press service of the Donetsk People’s Republic told Itar-Tass on Sunday.

    So far, no details are available about the number and condition of the missile systems taken over by the self-defence forces. The press service refused to comment.

    The Buk missile defence system is a mobile medium-range surface-to-air missile (SAM) system designed to defend field troops and logistics installations against air threats in conditions of heavy electronic countermeasures and intense enemy fire."

    http://en.itar-tass.com/world/738262

    Yes I know, but the number of Buk's in rebel hands are far fewer, and it's more likely the missile was fired from Kiev forces.

    Plus, the Resistance have infinitely less in the way of radar. And any Russian radar assistance would be much better quality. The Ukraine's incompetence re the S8 airliner (not to mention Right Sector's mentality) speaks volumes.

    I suspect a Ukr air to air missile may have been pretty likely.

    Its all a bit staggering tho that the 100s of Russian speaking civillians dont matter to the US and cronies. But the 280 on the jet mean massive condemnation and blame being hurled at Russian speakers.

    It should be noted that the U.S. never puts pressure on Japan for recognizing the war crimes they committed against China, and similarly 9 million Russians died in Nazi concentration camps, and the U.S. govt. like the sanctimonious hypocrites (when it comes to lecturing countries like Iran on holocaust denial) that they are, never mentions that fact nor do they ever mention the other Russian sacrifices during WW2. It should also be noted that the U.S. almost never puts pressure on Turkey to recognize the Armenian Genocide, and the Israeli's are also sanctimonious hypocrites and refuse to recognize the Armenian Genocide, you can't make this shit up!  So what do all these cases have in common? The 3 groups that I mentioned (Chinese, Russians, Armenians) are all aligned in the Eastern sphere's of power, and by de facto they are America's competitors/advisories.
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:34 pm

    Intrigado wrote:It looks like an Ukrainian official said they got proof about the GRU's involvement in shooting down the plane.
    If someone knows Russian, a Moldovan site posted a video saying that it's about two Russian officials talking among themselves moments after the plane crashed.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5E8kDo2n6g

    So sorry for the victims and I truly hope their death won't be used to bring about more death in that benighted region.

    ...Kiev claims this, despite the fact that they declared a No Fly Zone over Eastern Ukraine, 9 days earlier! Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
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    Post  Regular Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:38 pm

    RIP to killed passengers. Malaysian airlines are not the luckiest company.
    Well maybe it will hard lesson for some controllers not to direct flights above warzone.
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