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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    macedonian
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    Post  macedonian Sun Jun 22, 2014 4:52 pm

    Whatever the theory behind the whole scenario, at this point I'm more interested about the situation on the ground...

    Twitter chatter about self-defense forces attacking a border-guard checkpoint in Belovodsk (Wikimaps link).
    Kinda strange, I thought they'd have control over that part ages ago. Thought the twitter rumors ARE spread by pro-Ukrainians, so might well be just a propaganda effort. Seems a bit off...that's all...
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    Post  macedonian Sun Jun 22, 2014 5:05 pm

    Well, seems there are others stuck in the past too:

    Lithuanian President Compares Putin to Hitler and Stalin-Magazine

    NewYorkTimes wrote:BERLIN — Lithuania's president likened the tactics of Russian President Vladimir Putin to those employed by Stalin and Hitler, and said in a magazine interview that Moscow was trying to persuade Baltic states to leave NATO in exchange for cheaper oil or gas.

    Former U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton in March said Putin's incursion into Crimea was akin to moves Hitler made in the years before World War Two, though she said the following day that she was not making a comparison.

    Asked whether such comparisons to Hitler or Stalin went too far, Dalia Grybauskaite told German news magazine Focus on Sunday: "(Putin) uses nationality as a pretext to conquer territory with military means. That's exactly what Stalin and Hitler did. Such comparisons are spot on."
    Whole thing @ "New York Times"

    The NYT never fails to deliver, does it?! Neither do the Krouts (Spiegel, Stern, WAZ, etc)...
    The propaganda stench is so big on this one, I had to read it with my nose covered.

    That tells me things ARE going to escalate...and we all might be pretty much fcuked...

    On a side note:
    What is it with these Baltic countries..?! They have a death-wish or something?! Their leaders aren't big fans of history, they think escalating things with Russia might somehow help them?! What?! I don't get it! How stupid can one get?!
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #5 - Page 29 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  Werewolf Sun Jun 22, 2014 5:30 pm

    macedonian wrote:Well, seems there are others stuck in the past too:

    Lithuanian President Compares Putin to Hitler and Stalin-Magazine

    NewYorkTimes wrote:BERLIN — Lithuania's president likened the tactics of Russian President Vladimir Putin to those employed by Stalin and Hitler, and said in a magazine interview that Moscow was trying to persuade Baltic states to leave NATO in exchange for cheaper oil or gas.

    Former U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton in March said Putin's incursion into Crimea was akin to moves Hitler made in the years before World War Two, though she said the following day that she was not making a comparison.

    Asked whether such comparisons to Hitler or Stalin went too far, Dalia Grybauskaite told German news magazine Focus on Sunday: "(Putin) uses nationality as a pretext to conquer territory with military means. That's exactly what Stalin and Hitler did. Such comparisons are spot on."
    Whole thing @ "New York Times"

    The NYT never fails to deliver, does it?! Neither do the Krouts (Spiegel, Stern, WAZ, etc)...
    The propaganda stench is so big on this one, I had to read it with my nose covered.

    That tells me things ARE going to escalate...and we all might be pretty much fcuked...

    On a side note:
    What is it with these Baltic countries..?! They have a death-wish or something?! Their leaders aren't big fans of history, they think escalating things with Russia might somehow help them?! What?! I don't get it! How stupid can one get?!

    You mean Lithunia among Latvia and Estonia which are the three Nazi symphatysant countries that have already national parades to glory SS?

    If putin is the new hitler shouldn't the baltic states follow now Putin as their new fuhrer they like so much?

    This 3 failed nations are a disgrace to all slavic people, the sooner this idiot states are swollowed by whoever the better.
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #5 - Page 29 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  Regular Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:04 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    macedonian wrote:Well, seems there are others stuck in the past too:

    Lithuanian President Compares Putin to Hitler and Stalin-Magazine

    NewYorkTimes wrote:BERLIN — Lithuania's president likened the tactics of Russian President Vladimir Putin to those employed by Stalin and Hitler, and said in a magazine interview that Moscow was trying to persuade Baltic states to leave NATO in exchange for cheaper oil or gas.

    Former U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton in March said Putin's incursion into Crimea was akin to moves Hitler made in the years before World War Two, though she said the following day that she was not making a comparison.

    Asked whether such comparisons to Hitler or Stalin went too far, Dalia Grybauskaite told German news magazine Focus on Sunday: "(Putin) uses nationality as a pretext to conquer territory with military means. That's exactly what Stalin and Hitler did. Such comparisons are spot on."
    Whole thing @ "New York Times"

    The NYT never fails to deliver, does it?! Neither do the Krouts (Spiegel, Stern, WAZ, etc)...
    The propaganda stench is so big on this one, I had to read it with my nose covered.

    That tells me things ARE going to escalate...and we all might be pretty much fcuked...

    On a side note:
    What is it with these Baltic countries..?! They have a death-wish or something?! Their leaders aren't big fans of history, they think escalating things with Russia might somehow help them?! What?! I don't get it! How stupid can one get?!

    You mean Lithunia among Latvia and Estonia which are the three Nazi symphatysant countries that have already national parades to glory SS?

    If putin is the new hitler shouldn't the baltic states follow now Putin as their new fuhrer they like so much?

    This 3 failed nations are a disgrace to all slavic people, the sooner this idiot states are swollowed by whoever the better.
    ;D Slavic people. Hahaha!! Why are You looking for enemies where You shouldn't? 
    I will speak for one country- Lithuania. I doubt You will find many Nazi sympathisers, not in the open. Of Course there is such element, but nothing close to Ukraine. 
    And still Baltic countries are not yet failed(we might hit the dirt after euro), even if our politics are. We are not slavs too, so get your american geography right. 
    What You hear is Grybauskaite a populist bitch that was KGB cadre. You see I have special hatred towards people who served in KGB and spied on their own people. Now they are frickin patriots.
    Me and my family voted for Afghanistan vet Naglis Puteikis that was neutral to Russia and was only one with the brain and integrity.
    There was another candidate who was pro-polish and pro-russian.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valdemar_Toma%C5%A1evski
     The Situation in the Ukraine. #5 - Page 29 69-uju-pergales-metiniu-kare-minejimas-64990877
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    Post  arpakola Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:08 pm

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    Post  Hannibal Barca Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:19 pm


    What is it with these Baltic countries..?! They have a death-wish or something?! Their leaders aren't big fans of history, they think escalating things with Russia might somehow help them?! What?! I don't get it! How stupid can one get?!


    For the life of mine I would never answer this question.
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    Post  Vann7 Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:53 pm

    [quote="macedonian"]  

    On a side note:
    What is it with these Baltic countries..?! They have a death-wish or something?! Their leaders aren't big fans of history, they think escalating things with Russia might somehow help them?! What?! I don't get it! How stupid can one get?!

    Is called Puppet states.. The political elite in Baltic States is totally controlled by US and Western Rusophobic elite..
    Will not be suprised if they are financed by the west with millionaire Bank Accounts and all that. US congress finance political parties
    in europe. IF you look at the world map.. notice how by " Coincidence" all the nations that share a border with  Russia from the eastern europe ,are doing generally better than the average central or southern or western European nations . You are told by Ukrainians pro eu..about how great is the EU ,because "look at how well baltic states doing" or "poland". What happens is the nations bordering Russia ,are the most important ones for NATO to have under their influence ,so they give investors preference to them. More money flows from Neocons companies into the nations bordering Russia..to keep Russia influence away.

    BUt Had the baltic States be located near Spain.. they will be poor nations. Just look at Spain ,Italy,Portugal,greece. The good thing about Ukraine joining the EU ,is that it will end the myth of life becoming better automatically just for being an EU member. But also that The US empire neither the EU  will not have the economy to maintain 40 millions homeless people and  bankrupt nation as they will become. That their streets will not turn into Gold as they believed.  All those Ukrainians throwing rocks at Russian business are truly victims of their idiocy ,and their western poisoned media. They do not see how they damage their own nation image ,and will scare any foreign investor to start a business in Ukraine. Ukraine will collapse in 1 or 2 years and those throwing rocks at Russia will be either jobless under the EU and asking Russia to take them back after they notice how much better life is for Crimeans.  This is why Time is on the side of Russia.. and
    actually Russia could benefit greatly (if they get a very strong economy with CHina trading) from an influx of orthodox Ukrainians  ~10-20 millions into Caucasus and far east of Russia, to counter the muslin but also the mongol menace of slowly turning Russia into a muslin nation for their huge over population growing. Once Russia economy is ready , Ukraine could significantly help Russia to solve their muslin influence problems but also the Chinese silent invasion in the east.


    Last edited by Vann7 on Sun Jun 22, 2014 9:16 pm; edited 3 times in total
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:55 pm

    Pro-NATO Polish foreign minister secretly wiretapped, Radoslaw Sikorski admits that a Polish-American alliance is worth nothing and is harmful and dangerous for Poland:

    Polish Foreign Minister said that the Polish-American alliance harms country

    Polish magazine "Wprost" published a new record, compromising the leading politicians in the country. Were published including a few snippets of conversation Polish Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski.

    WARSAW, June 22 - RIA Novosti. wiretapping scandal with leading Polish politicians a new development: Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski in a conversation with former Finance Minister Jacek Rostowski said that the Polish-American alliance is worth nothing and harms Poland, reports the magazine "Wprost " with reference to a recorded conversation politicians. Editorial Board "Wprost" got new records, including Polish Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski, a former government spokesman Paul Grasya Poland, the State Property Minister Wlodzimierz Karpinskogo and ex-Finance Minister Jacek Rostowski. Publication of compromising, in particular, head of the National Bank of Poland Marek Belka and Interior Minister Bartlomiej Sienkiewicz started online Polish magazine "Wprost" over the weekend, then a portion of the transcripts appeared in the printed version of the magazine. Unknown recorded a conversation in one of the most prestigious restaurants in Warsaw between Belka and Sienkiewicz, during which Interior Minister Belka requested budget support Poland and patch budget holes. Belka, in turn, spoke of the need resignation of Finance Minister Jacek Rostowski. The conversation was recorded in the summer of 2013. In the autumn of 2013, the finance minister was forced to resign.

    Currently promulgated several fragments of conversation Sikorsky. Polish Foreign Minister argues that the foreign policy of Prime Minister Donald Tusk and Minister of National Defence Tomasz Semonyaka is incorrect, and "Polish-American alliance is worth nothing." Sikorski said that the alliance with the United States "is harmful because it creates a false sense of security." Head of Polish diplomacy explained: "We had an argument with the Germans, the French, because they support the Americans," assessing this situation, using the English obscene expression. On the eve of prosecutors and agents ABW under investigation raided the magazine "Wprost" which published a transcript. Investigators were trying to find evidence of illegal wiretapping organization. The editorial staff, however, refused to issue materials, citing the right to journalistic secret. As a result, representatives of power structures left Editor "Wprost" with nothing. Siloviki action has come under fire in Polish society and the entire media community. According to a poll conducted after the publication of compromising official records, 48% of Poles are in favor of dismissal of the government of Donald Tusk, with 30% of respondents were against it.

    РИА Новости http://ria.ru/world/20140622/1013090966.html#ixzz35OVbEP7Z


    ...LMAO the Polish douche bags at MP.net are left with egg on their face, even Polish foreign minister Sikorsky recognizes NATO membership as a "false sense of security", and membership amounts to hot air. Think about it people in the wire tapped conversation Sikorsky pointed out that France and Britain were the most adamant and vehement in backing the Pentagon, while obviously Polish leadership were not, and it's obvious because U.S., U.K., and France are the only nuclear powers in NATO, and all other countries in NATO are nothing more than meat-shields to take the brunt of the damage from Russia. Since the end of the Cold War, there was up until recently a "Good Cop/Bad Cop" relationship in NATO, where the U.S., France, and Britain pretended to be nice and respectful towards Russian concerns and wishes, while the Baltic states played Bad Cop, alienating themselves and receiving such consequences from such actions.

    Seriously people, who actually legitimately thinks NATO members such as Greece and Bulgaria would team up with NATO member Turkey to fight Russians???..... lol!
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    Post  medo Sun Jun 22, 2014 9:12 pm

    What is it with these Baltic countries..?! They have a death-wish or something?! Their leaders aren't big fans of history, they think escalating things with Russia might somehow help them?! What?! I don't get it! How stupid can one get?!

    Baltic states are not Slavs and they are enemies of Russia for centuries, practically from Teutonic knights crusade in Russia from the beginning of 13. century.
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    Post  macedonian Sun Jun 22, 2014 11:36 pm

    Many rumors (and this is both from pro-Russian and pro-Ukrainian side) is that the self-defense forces now have more than enough tanks, but not enough crew to operate them...hope new volunteers start pouring in.
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    Post  macedonian Sun Jun 22, 2014 11:55 pm


    Wow Sergey Glazyev doesn't mince his words, does he?!


    Glad that at least some of the Putin advisers aren't into that "Our Partners" crap...
    Interesting that he was born in Zaporizhia, Ukraine too.
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:51 am

    Reaffirming my earlier post. Report: Polish minister says US ties worthless:

    http://news.yahoo.com/report-polish-minister-says-us-ties-worthless-102515845.html?soc_src=mediacontentstory
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    Post  Vann7 Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:34 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:Reaffirming my earlier post. Report: Polish minister says US ties worthless:

    http://news.yahoo.com/report-polish-minister-says-us-ties-worthless-102515845.html?soc_src=mediacontentstory

    Most likely that comment is staged and a mouth paid service for the jewish NEOCONS elite.. who are the ones pushing for world war 3.
    They will like to see US to start world war 3 with Russia and will not mind a nuclear interchange... Since they are not in the front line ,
    and they have rich properties all around the world ,they will survive any event or tragedy.
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    Post  Vann7 Mon Jun 23, 2014 3:22 am

    macedonian wrote:
    Wow Sergey Glazyev doesn't mince his words, does he?!


    Glad that at least some of the Putin advisers aren't into that "Our Partners" crap...
    Interesting that he was born in Zaporizhia, Ukraine too.


    Hehe.. im glad he basically told that Russia aim to end the war should be not Ukraine but the white house were Neocons Fascism should be defeated. He pointed the obvious of Americans being behind Ukraine proxy war against Russia. however i don't agree with its military predictions.He seems to lack of knowledge of military . The believe that half a million Ukrainians can be organized into a united army with weaponsand tanks and invade Crimea ,is  fantasy at best.. even if they could do that.. lets say 50,000 Ukrainians in the front and 450,000 Nato mercenaries in the back..Neither NATO can send their latest tanks and combat jets to Ukraine.. because will be a disaster for their image worldwide and their sales. if for example Rafale and Eurofighters falls from the sky like flies.  Russia can totally push such kind of invasion with the weapons they have.. No one will run with an ak-47 towards a mine field with thousands of heavy machine gun firing at them.  on top that at least 90% of the population in Crimea support Russia. So essentially to take Crimea back they will need to fight one by one ,street by street every house in crimea. is not going to happen. They have problems with 10,000 rebels in Donbas ,they will stand not a chance with Crimea and Russia army.. Not even NATO could get Crimea back.. The logistics to deploy armies near Russia will be a nightmare ,when Russia can easily bomb their military bases and generals headquarters and shutdown the countries being used as command center. And the fact that Russia can declare a no fly zone in 90% of Ukraine with their S-400s will make impossible for NATO airforces to operate until they get rid of Russian Air defense first. we are now discussing fantasy worlds..really doubt any Nato country will form in line to invade Crimea. The goal of US taking Ukraine is an economic war and to isolate Russia business in the west. to sabotage Russia and EU energy trade and to force EU into cut any trade with Russia.  and time is against Poroshenko .not donbass , Civilians can flee to Russia ,fighters stay. The more time it pass ,the more unrest Kiev will see..Poroshenko is going to lose the control of his country if this war goes for another year. I really don't think Kiev will remain in control of Ukraine in one year of war. It will split. With Russia taking under their influence a huge territory from them much more than Donetsk and Lugansk.
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    Post  fragmachine Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:39 am

    Vann7 wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:Reaffirming my earlier post. Report: Polish minister says US ties worthless:

    http://news.yahoo.com/report-polish-minister-says-us-ties-worthless-102515845.html?soc_src=mediacontentstory

    Most likely that comment is staged and a mouth paid service for the jewish NEOCONS elite.. who are the ones pushing for world war 3.
    They will like to see US to start world war 3 with Russia and will not mind a nuclear interchange... Since they are not in the front line ,
    and they have rich properties all around the world ,they will survive any event or tragedy.

    Sikorsky is from UK as well as Rostovsky. Many speculate about Sikorsky ties with MI 6..

    BTW Rostovsky is finance minister.

    OFFTOP but interesting thing is that during Kaczynski presidenture he disbanded WSI (Wojskowe Służby Informacyjne) - Military Inteligence Service - the cause was - of course - 'bloody soviet agents' that meant to occupy it. There were no proof of such action, be it Belarusian or Russian. Now Poland is without it's own 'Central Intelligence Agency' - which means there must be some other foreign agencies - and I seriously doubt that there are Russian ones.

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    Post  arpakola Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:24 am



    =====================

    http://novorossia.su/ru/node/3052
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    Post  Viktor Mon Jun 23, 2014 3:19 pm

    Aha, it has started. Same old "fancy" words used again and again whenever some country submits itself to the EU - it basically means you are screwed but we have

    to press on because we, govrenment of Ukraine are nothing more than puppets of US who brought us on power so we have no other option but to obey.

    Ukrainian Foreign Minister: an association agreement with the EU will require restructuring of the economy
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    Post  arpakola Mon Jun 23, 2014 3:31 pm

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #5 - Page 29 W1unoFK
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #5 - Page 29 BDNVRsF
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #5 - Page 29 UMB9QVm




    Ukrainian Army shelling after the announced ceasefire


    Last edited by arpakola on Mon Jun 23, 2014 3:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  Viktor Mon Jun 23, 2014 3:33 pm

    Croat link (of RBTH) which says that Gazprom is preparing to file another lawsuit against Ukraine but this time 18bin$ heavy

    Gazpromova nova tužba protiv Ukrajine
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    Post  Asf Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:02 pm

    "Police mission similar to EULex is going to Ukraine." http://vz.ru/news/2014/6/23/692406.html


    Seems like independancy of Ukraine is no more
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    Post  macedonian Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:28 pm

    Asf wrote:"Police mission similar to EULex is going to Ukraine." http://vz.ru/news/2014/6/23/692406.html


    Seems like independancy of Ukraine is no more

    Oh, I beg to differ.
    That's terrible news!

    They have that same mission in Kosovo, and it ended up in them having their way there and Kosovo being independent.
    Not good news at all. Rather an escalation.
    Think what happens if an EU Police member gets shot...I'm willing to bet my left nut, that it'll be blamed on the pro-Russians.
    Then, you get some sort of joint NATO/Ukrainian/EU operation to root out the "terrorists".
    Not good news at all.
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    Post  arpakola Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:34 pm

    NATO warships of the NATO Maritime Group 2 are in Konstantinouple at this time .. probably heading to Black sea.
    http://turkishnavy.net/
    they include : (http://www.defencenet.gr/defence/ite...83%CF%83%CE%B1)
    Spanish F-105 Cristobal Colon
    the Turkish F-247 TCG Kemalreis
    Canadian HMCS Regina (FFH 334)
    also in the group are the following included
    the US FFG-50 USS Taylor ,
    the French (A-630) FS Marne.

    The issue here is the it is obvius that NATO is desperatly pushing Russia to act ..
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    Post  Vann7 Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:45 pm

    Whatever happens in the diplomatic arena... Ukraine is a failed state. And what we witness is NATO trying to desperately
    maintain Ukraine as a single state united. It will collapse on its own ,regardless of what happens in Eastern Ukraine.The rebels photo
    earlier ,no idea when it was took but seemed in a good mood. For me it looks like There is a very high chance the DOnetsk and Lugansk republic will get their independence sooner or later.. But this will not be total consolation until all Pro Russia cities from Odessa to Kharkiv Rebel and declare also its own independence. As long the white house controls Kiev , they will continue using them ,to sabotage Russia ,
    So unless its leaders comes to its senses , it will be a matter of time Ukraine will do something stupid ,that will provoke a major world war.
    The attack on the Russian checkpoint is only a sign of things to come.  Any NATO mercenary thugs deployed in Ukraine could easily fire artillery at Russia ,using the cover of Ukraine national guard.  This is why Russia should stop talking in soft tone to its "western partners" and
    warn USA and NATO allies that if Russia attacked, in a major attack ,that civilians die ,that they will not only retaliate to kiev but also to Americans bases in eastern Europe. One iskander missile with americans killed, will be more than enough to send a big message to the west.
    That Russia will not tolerate any more proxy war games against them.


    Last edited by Vann7 on Mon Jun 23, 2014 6:16 pm; edited 3 times in total
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    Post  arpakola Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:46 pm



    New volunteers are joining Novorussiya ranks
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #5 - Page 29 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  macedonian Mon Jun 23, 2014 6:56 pm

    RT Breaking news

    Donetsk self-defense forces agree to ceasefire until 0700 GMT Friday


    The leader of self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic in eastern Ukraine agreed to a ceasefire in the region until 10 a.m. local time on Friday. He stressed that the self-defense force's ceasefire will come only as a reciprocal move.

    "The duration of the ceasefire is the same as announced previously - before 10 a.m. on June 27. During this period monitoring by Russian and OSCE representatives will be organized. We hope that during ceasefire from both sides we will be able to reach an agreement and start consultations on the process of peaceful settlement of the conflict," Aleksandr Boroday, prime minister of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic said live on Rossiya 24 TV.

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    Edit:

    Now BBC is running it too:

    Ukraine separatists 'to join truce', rebel leader says
    Pro-Russia rebels in eastern Ukraine say they will observe a ceasefire until Friday morning, responding to the Ukrainian forces' unilateral ceasefire.

    The rebel announcement was made in Donetsk by Alexander Borodai, leader of the self-styled "Donetsk People's Republic" which is defying Kiev.

    On Friday, Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko announced a 15-point peace plan and declared a week-long truce.

    Mr Borodai spoke after attending preliminary peace talks in Donetsk.

    BBC

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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #5 - Page 29 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

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