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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    macedonian
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    Post  macedonian Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:13 pm

    По словам жителей Краматорска, на аэродром привезли несколько контейнеров со знаками химической опасности. Контейнеры находятся под усиленной охраной украинской армии. Что именно находится в них — неизвестно.
    Novorossia.su

    I hope this is only a bad attempt at propaganda.
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    Post  fragmachine Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:20 pm

    macedonian wrote:
    По словам жителей Краматорска, на аэродром привезли несколько контейнеров со знаками химической опасности. Контейнеры находятся под усиленной охраной украинской армии. Что именно находится в них — неизвестно.
    Novorossia.su

    I hope this is only a bad attempt at propaganda.

    Might be biological weapons to be used against people. Downright scary thing that I thought just today that UKR army could possibly do that cowardish move. And some info just leaked - damn.

    It might be just as well a trap - to provoke some major assault on the airfield to kill as much Novorussian soldiers as possible.
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    Post  macedonian Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:25 pm

    fragmachine wrote:
    macedonian wrote:
    По словам жителей Краматорска, на аэродром привезли несколько контейнеров со знаками химической опасности. Контейнеры находятся под усиленной охраной украинской армии. Что именно находится в них — неизвестно.
    Novorossia.su

    I hope this is only a bad attempt at propaganda.

    Might be biological weapons to be used against people. Downright scary thing that I thought just today that UKR army could possibly do that cowardish move. And some info just leaked - damn.
    It might be just as well a trap - to provoke some major assault on the airfield to kill as much Novorussian soldiers as possible.
    That's what the linked article states...but I really don't believe they'll go full retard like that. But who the fcuk knows...

    --------

    In other news...

    Poroshenko speaks for stopping fire in Ukraine’s eastern regions
    Tass

    (for the record, I don't believe that either)
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    Post  macedonian Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:33 pm

    RF UN ambassador skeptical about UN peacekeeping mission prospects in Ukraine

    TASS wrote:KRASNOYARSK, June 08. /ITAR-TASS/. Vitaly Churkin, Russia’s Permanent Representative at the United Nations, says he is skeptical about the prospects of introducing United Nations peacekeepers to Ukraine, since this step requires Kiev’s consent.

    “It will require the consent from Kiev, from the Ukrainian government,” he said in an interview with the Sunday Evening programme on Russia’s television Channel One. “It is a regular practice to ask for such consent. And today, if Kiev plans to continue its force operation in the eastern regions, it is not obvious that they will accede to the presence of such peacekeeping contingent, as long as they want to solve this problem by force. But I hope this attitude will be changed.”

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    Post  Regular Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:41 pm

    How the hell they would contain bio weapon?  Suspect 
    Even chemical weapon theory sounds far fetched
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    Post  macedonian Sun Jun 08, 2014 11:00 pm

    Regular wrote:How the hell they would contain bio weapon?  Suspect 
    Even chemical weapon theory sounds far fetched

    Well the article seems to imply chemical not biological weapons, but that too I think is just propaganda.
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    Post  flamming_python Sun Jun 08, 2014 11:06 pm

    Vann7 wrote:THis is one of the major reasons Russia foreign policy is very limited at times..  It does'nt real friends.

    Belarus Lukashenko is saying that Ukraine should kill all Separatist.. with friends like that who need enemies?



    Russia is now in a position that if invade Ukraine to defend civilians , his relations with Belarus could totally break..
    and might even lose Belarus as an ally and they seek to join NATO too.. lol

    I don't really trust in that President.. he could Betray Russia overnight . Are all politicians in Belarus have the same opinion of Lukashenko
    about the Ukraine war?  Or if there any other competition in Belarus that have a closer stance with Russia?

    People how many times have I pointed out that you that WORDS ARE CHEAP. In fact they COST NOTHING.

    Lukashenko is playing good cop. Trust me, he ain't going anywhere.

    You guys are orchestrating a whole witches Sabbath over some I don't even know what.

    Keep your heads clear, and watch what happens. The following month will be very critical, the US has given Russia a deadline and if it follows then we can comfortably say that the rebels are getting shafted in the back and that Russia is ready to take a major defeat.
    But if not then the sanctions will come (if nations don't break rank with Obama), which will actually free Russia's hands for a military option - even though this is by far not the prefered solution and not just because of the threat of sanctions.

    I move to keep the thread clean and stop posting all these non-essential, non-relevant comments. By all means discussion is warranted but it should be on topic; we can create a seperate topic for Russia vs America, Slavic unity rants.
    Get a grip. All of you.
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    Post  flamming_python Sun Jun 08, 2014 11:08 pm

    macedonian wrote:
    По словам жителей Краматорска, на аэродром привезли несколько контейнеров со знаками химической опасности. Контейнеры находятся под усиленной охраной украинской армии. Что именно находится в них — неизвестно.
    Novorossia.su

    I hope this is only a bad attempt at propaganda.

    Could just be some white phosphorus, napalm or whatever.
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    Post  sepheronx Sun Jun 08, 2014 11:22 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    Vann7 wrote:THis is one of the major reasons Russia foreign policy is very limited at times..  It does'nt real friends.

    Belarus Lukashenko is saying that Ukraine should kill all Separatist.. with friends like that who need enemies?



    Russia is now in a position that if invade Ukraine to defend civilians , his relations with Belarus could totally break..
    and might even lose Belarus as an ally and they seek to join NATO too.. lol

    I don't really trust in that President.. he could Betray Russia overnight . Are all politicians in Belarus have the same opinion of Lukashenko
    about the Ukraine war?  Or if there any other competition in Belarus that have a closer stance with Russia?

    People how many times have I pointed out that you that WORDS ARE CHEAP. In fact they COST NOTHING.

    Lukashenko is playing good cop. Trust me, he ain't going anywhere.

    You guys are orchestrating a whole witches Sabbath over some I don't even know what.

    Keep your heads clear, and watch what happens. The following month will be very critical, the US has given Russia a deadline and if it follows then we can comfortably say that the rebels are getting shafted in the back and that Russia is ready to take a major defeat.
    But if not then the sanctions will come (if nations don't break rank with Obama), which will actually free Russia's hands for a military option - even though this is by far not the prefered solution and not just because of the threat of sanctions.

    I move to keep the thread clean and stop posting all these non-essential, non-relevant comments. By all means discussion is warranted but it should be on topic; we can create a seperate topic for Russia vs America, Slavic unity rants.
    Get a grip. All of you.

    It is pathetic that you as a Russian are still supporting all of this. I would figure you would be the first to say that Lukashenko is a fucking idiot and that Putin is a spineless retard. Both should go and someone should deal with Poroshenko. Sanctions mean fuck all.
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    Post  macedonian Sun Jun 08, 2014 11:25 pm

    flamming_python wrote:People how many times have I pointed out that you that WORDS ARE CHEAP. In fact they COST NOTHING.
    Lukashenko is playing good cop. Trust me, he ain't going anywhere.
    You guys are orchestrating a whole witches Sabbath over some I don't even know what.
    I agree. I don't see him switching sides at this point.

    flamming_python wrote:Keep your heads clear, and watch what happens. The following month will be very critical, the US has given Russia a deadline and if it follows then we can comfortably say that the rebels are getting shafted in the back and that Russia is ready to take a major defeat.
    But if not then the sanctions will come (if nations don't break rank with Obama), which will actually free Russia's hands for a military option - even though this is by far not the prefered solution and not just because of the threat of sanctions.
    You might or might not be right. You and I are random people exchanging opinions on an internet forum. I don't think either of us has insider info from the Kremlin.
    So, yes, I do hope you're right, but I retain my right to point to facts that I think prove otherwise...that's actually what I thought internet forums are for...

    flamming_python wrote:I move to keep the thread clean and stop posting all these non-essential, non-relevant comments. By all means discussion is warranted but it should be on topic;
    You can always point to an opinion you feel is offtop, but:
    flamming_python wrote:we can create a seperate topic for Russia vs America
    I thought US vs Russia is EXACTLY the nucleus of the Ukraine situation...silly me...

    flamming_python wrote:Slavic unity rants.
    Get a grip. All of you.
    What's with all this "Five Eyes" talk?!  Razz 
    On a more serious note, where exactly do you feel that Russia's influence can be spread if not among countries that share similar culture?
    Russia is not the USSR anymore, and the idea of communism and worker equality ain't gonna fly no moar...
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    Post  Werewolf Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:14 am

    Chess is a game of strategy and a strategy is also to let your enemy in unknown, the time plays against USA and not against Russia, i hope for the sanctions that will bea turning point in near future against USA.

    Currently Media is warmongering against russia, accussing russia to be the major force against Ukraine (Fascist Junta) while the majority of EU thinks otherwise and this is the reason why more and more of the bride public are more and more concerned about US/EU, because of such poor blatant propaganda of Psaki,Kerry and more and more proof of US involvement but zero of Russian involvement, while we know US invasions with millions dead we get propagandized that the Russian invasion has Zero dead people, it does not matter if people count that as an Invasion or see it as it is true democracy.

    The point of this Ultimatum is what? The Ape give Putin the ultimatum to calm down the alleged "Russian" agents and all Anti-kiew/anti-fascist in their propaganda called Pro-Russian, down or they will sanction Russia with this time sanction that actually will hit part of the economy.

    There are only 3 Options you will see:

    1) Putin will announce something to show publicly he bows down to US will, that will kill everything for every single russian and other nations, firstly reputation and after presidential period maybe even a Pro-US puppett, but this option has the lowest possibility, the reasons for this are. If they wanted to do exactly this case they would have done it in Georgia, where Russian military was much weaker and by far easier hitable like with the GPS shut down during 888 war, further back then, RT which is the main reason even in the WEST, that people believe less and less in American warmongering Propaganda. RT is globaly the best and the only reason why the Mainstream Informationwar monopoly of the West was broken. The third reason why Georgan war in 2008 would be easier for the goals of the evil empire of US, is that backthen Pro-American oligarchs were much more common inside the Kremlin of the Jelzin,Saxarov and other scum oligarch families which were holding lot of power and influence on the policy.

    2) Putin will not announce to bow down to US "ultimatum" and the Sanction kick in, this will be the turning point just in few month and not in Russia but here in EU zone,especially in France, which are more reliable when it comes to protests than here in germany where only vegetables are living. We have here in germany almost 40% energy that comes from russian gas, since early 2013 the energy prices hove doubled in most cities and this will be even harder. But this will be blamed upon Putin in any case, regardless of the Sanction oppossed on Russia for no Import of Russian oil/gas to Europe the Media will twist it that Russias fault, this will be a crucial point for Information war to show the truth.

    The point of Revolutions is, there are only 3 Things need to bring masses on the streets, No food or cut of food supply or make it drastically expensive, No more Disinformation (Television, MEDIA distraction to summe it up) and the last thing a corrupt government acting against its People. One of this 3 points the US will bring upon EU in any case, Russia has no options to target the other 2 points only bring Information to destabilize this factor of Western Disinformation of own people, the case of a Corrupt government is already existent, people who are not politically educated or involved don't realize it yet. The soup has to boil little bit longer untill economically Germans are targeted again for Ukraine than this will be the right opportunity for everyone who wants to break Germany away from US, the problem is one factor, there are no and i mean not a single person in entire German political sphere that is competent or of on the payroll of Russia/China to take this place, like US is doing since early 2000 century.

    3) Sanctions are a threat and will try opposse them but EU will split partially from it and only part of sanctions will kick in so that one deception is among Western Mainstream Media watchers created, that they will argue about Unity like they do for the past 5 years, like the Western MSM Propaganda focused on "Fuck the EU" and not the content of conspiracy plans of the US in Ukraine leadership.

    Remember there are things that can be created just to distract the wide mass like they did with Ukraine from the defeat of US invasion plans in Syria, so they give Putin his medicine and tell him he can not interfere with Military. The Policy and goal of such events is to keep the brain busy with other body parts pain, when the Leg hurts, injure your finger and the head will focus on the pain in the finger.

    Currently i see the 2nd Point as the most plausible. The West is a falling Empire that is an undeniable fact and the US lives through the 5 stages of Grief of its own death.

    Last 5-10 years it was Denying that it will be no more in our lifespan, today since Syria and especially since BRICS boycott of Petrodollar is Untertaker who will put the nail into the coffin, the US has dug its hole itself and provided through its Atrocities and empirial enslavery of humankind under private banks the coffin for that.

    The day the USA splits apart and the day humankind kill those traitor politicians and private banksters is the day i will make sure that not only i will never work again on this holyday, but this day will become a worlds holyday for all people.
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    Post  Vann7 Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:53 am



    What i know is that if Russia give up with Donetsk and Lugansk and leave the Rebels
    to its own luck ..it will be very ugly for the Russian families living there.. I can forsee the Neo Nazis raping many womens at the
    orders of the CIA and or burning their houses of a couple of hundreds of ethnic Russian families to force them to flee to Russia as refugees .

    In other words the Europepenization of Ukraine in the Donetsk and Lugansk zones and to kick anyone friendly from Russia and destroy
    their business. Yes i think US government is fully capable of any vile crime ,that hitler or stalin commited in the past.

    So this is why the Pro Independence fighting forces have no choice to fight or die or become a homeless in a refugee camp in Russia.
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    Post  Werewolf Mon Jun 09, 2014 1:06 am

    US is an evil empire as long it exists it will do atrocities of all kind, while Hitler or Stalin were just dictators in a long time line who have committed atrocities, it is a big difference, the US as the Evil Empire it is outshadows any single dictator and any vile empire that ever existed and is only parred by British Empire since they are the once that lied the roots for all Strategies and tactics of "Divide et impera" the USA is currently using with help of UK and Israhell, Hitler and Stalin were blatant at propaganda both did not destroy culture of other countries to such a degree like the US and British evil empires did and still do.
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    Post  TR1 Mon Jun 09, 2014 1:29 am

    Vann7 wrote:

    What i know is that if Russia give up with Donetsk and Lugansk and leave the Rebels
    to its own luck ..it will be very ugly for the Russian families living there.. I can forsee the Neo Nazis raping many womens at the
    orders of the CIA
    and or burning their houses of a couple of hundreds of ethnic Russian families to force them to flee to Russia as refugees .

    In other words the Europepenization of Ukraine in the Donetsk and Lugansk zones and to kick anyone friendly from Russia and destroy
    their business. Yes i think US government is fully capable of any vile crime ,that hitler or stalin commited in the past.

    So this is why the Pro Independence fighting forces have no choice to fight or die  or become a homeless in a refugee camp in Russia.


    Dude.......
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    Post  Vann7 Mon Jun 09, 2014 1:53 am


    In other news an interesting Interview with one DOnetsk force Commander the problems they have in their battle..
    Basically he believe that the Ukraine Army tactics are of totally destroying DOnetsk and Lugansk Infrastructure , Electricity and water
    to create a human catastrophe and use their Controlled Genocide to Pressure the Independence Fighters to leave.


    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-06-08/shadowy-commander-east-ukraine-insurgency-speaks

    Notice how his opinions does not differ for what i have been saying ,of the criminal tactics used by the Ukraine army.. which
    is adviced directly by the US Pentagon and CIA .


    Last edited by Vann7 on Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:25 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  zino Mon Jun 09, 2014 3:03 am

    I thought I was a hot-headed Latin but here it goes much further.

    Moscow 2014
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOzBAB05XU0

    You all think about that.
    Government of Russia is responsible first of the well-being of russian citizens.
    And again: there is no military solution in Ukraine, al least yet. Russia cannot invade and secede to the contemporary world for two oblast.
    First at least half of Ukraine should revolt, second Russia must first win the information war in order to preserve the trading with EU.

    This is my humble opinion.
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    Post  sepheronx Mon Jun 09, 2014 6:35 am

    So South Stream is dead.

    I wonder if our Russian members here will now stop and think "Maybe we should actually do something in East Ukraine then", as regardless on how Russia acts, US is pushing for more sanctions and limiting business with Russia. Lose Ukraine entirely, and you will be more controlled economically from outside pressure. Seems that this current leadership is incompetent in this case.
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    Post  TR1 Mon Jun 09, 2014 6:46 am

    sepheronx wrote:So South Stream is dead.

    I wonder if our Russian members here will now stop and think "Maybe we should actually do something in East Ukraine then", as regardless on how Russia acts, US is pushing for more sanctions and limiting business with Russia.  Lose Ukraine entirely, and you will be more controlled economically from outside pressure.  Seems that this current leadership is incompetent in this case.

    Yeah because actually serious economic isolation is a good thing right Very Happy ?
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    Post  sepheronx Mon Jun 09, 2014 6:50 am

    TR1 wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:So South Stream is dead.

    I wonder if our Russian members here will now stop and think "Maybe we should actually do something in East Ukraine then", as regardless on how Russia acts, US is pushing for more sanctions and limiting business with Russia.  Lose Ukraine entirely, and you will be more controlled economically from outside pressure.  Seems that this current leadership is incompetent in this case.

    Yeah because actually serious economic isolation is a good thing right Very Happy?

    For domestic.  But how long can one be isolated?  And them attempting it alone, and aiming at Russia's economy, should be an act of war itself.  Being Isolated will stunt technological growth as evident in the past.  Which hurts total economy for long periods of time.  Isolation is good for short period of time for domestic development. But this isn't just isolation, they want to go at Russia's land itself.

    Do you support this?  If so, why the hell do you consider yourself Russian then? Or are you one of those diehard liberalists that likes to see your own country fall apart?
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    Post  Werewolf Mon Jun 09, 2014 6:52 am

    By US and British definition Sanctions,isolation and even a growing economy that will outshadow those of UK/US is an act of war.

    That is exactly why WW1 and WW2 were created by UK ambitions of keeping its hegemony and in WW2 as the legacy and sympathy for the british Empire by the genocider Churchill.
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    Post  TR1 Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:07 am

    sepheronx wrote:
    TR1 wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:So South Stream is dead.

    I wonder if our Russian members here will now stop and think "Maybe we should actually do something in East Ukraine then", as regardless on how Russia acts, US is pushing for more sanctions and limiting business with Russia.  Lose Ukraine entirely, and you will be more controlled economically from outside pressure.  Seems that this current leadership is incompetent in this case.

    Yeah because actually serious economic isolation is a good thing right Very Happy?

    For domestic.  But how long can one be isolated?  And them attempting it alone, and aiming at Russia's economy, should be an act of war itself.  Being Isolated will stunt technological growth as evident in the past.  Which hurts total economy for long periods of time.  Isolation is good for short period of time for domestic development. But this isn't just isolation, they want to go at Russia's land itself.

    Do you support this?  If so, why the hell do you consider yourself Russian then?  Or are you one of those diehard liberalists that likes to see your own country fall apart?

    Yes, I very much support staying the hell out of Ukraine.

    Increasing international economic isolation, and diving into the black hole that is Ukraine is not a recipe for success.

    Who is going for Russia's land? What land?
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    Post  macedonian Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:27 am

    [quote="TR1"]
    sepheronx wrote:Yeah because actually serious economic isolation is a good thing right Very Happy?

    Superb analysis. What is it with you and one liners?!

    As evident from the current situation - Russia gets the isolation treatment NO MATTER what it does.
    This is not a response to the 'Crimea Annexation', these fresh sanctions (South Stream) are just another proof of the US's willingness to broaden the conflict between the west and Russia, and NOT cool things down. The very fact that the idiotic Bulgarian PM spoke about canceling 'South Stream' on a press conference with American Senators (lovely McCain was in that bunch) screams of US influence in this mess. Almost if they're trying to say: "Look we can make countries bend-over and take it up the [insert appropriate term here]". Nevermind that it's Bulgaria that stands to lose quite A LOT from canceling the deal...

    So, unless Russia is willing to "play nice" and rollover, and rename itself "Fido", I don't see this ever deescalating. No, it'll keep growing to the point that Russia will have to make a choice: Stand up, or stand down. Problem is, later on, the situation will not be as favorable as before.
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    Post  TR1 Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:30 am

    So tell me, how is getting stuck in Ukraine going to make anything better?

    What gold mine are you all expecting Russia will find there?
    There will be much more serious sanctions if actual intervention takes place. This isn't a "clean cut" like the Crimea was.

    Russia already nabbed a strategic location and 2 million people from Ukraine. How the hell have we "lost" anything?
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    Post  Asf Mon Jun 09, 2014 8:16 am

    So South Stream is dead.
    I don't really think EU would dig it's own grave.

    Actually EU seems to support the Russian point it some strange manner: Germany and France said they won't break the Mistral deal, Merkel said she won't lift military spendings, Germany said Poroshenko should be more careful using force in the east, ect.

    But as all we know, closing South Stream is a punch in the belly for southern european countries - who in Paris or Berlin would really think of them?  Smile


    Last edited by Asf on Mon Jun 09, 2014 8:26 am; edited 2 times in total
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    Asf


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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #5 - Page 7 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  Asf Mon Jun 09, 2014 8:19 am

    "Poroshenko: We should cease fire in the eastern regions on this week" (link (in russian))

    May be Putin was able to enforce his will? From the beggining of crisis he told of federalisation of the Ukraine, not about separation of Novorossia

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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #5 - Page 7 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

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