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    Mi-24/Mi-35M Hinds: News

    Werewolf
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    Post  Werewolf on Wed Aug 26, 2020 7:34 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Wow... that is a huge speed increase with just new rotor blades... with the huge advantage that it is relatively easy to apply to the entire fleet of helicopters and should allow a performance boost across the entire fleet...

    It's a little misleading I think

    As those blades were tested on the flying lab Mi-24 (based on the Mi-24K), which is single-seat and has no wings. They managed to get that thing up to 400 km/h. I believe the plans call for getting it up to 440-450 km/h with subsequent modifications.

    But still just the blades will provide a speed boost to serial Mi-24 and Mi-28 machines too; even +20-30 km/h would be good

    Yes, these blades are a direct result from the testbed Mi-24K, but it has stubbed wings (lifting wings) which generates ~25% lift.

    You can see this blades on the Mi-24K high speed helicopter testbed.

    Mi-24/Mi-35M Hinds: News - Page 7 ?u=https%3A%2F%2Fpp.userapi.com%2Fc638320%2Fv638320954%2F3d8f4%2FzX-S3MvnH2o
    Mi-24/Mi-35M Hinds: News - Page 7 ?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.globalsecurity.org%2Fmilitary%2Fworld%2Frussia%2Fimages%2Fmi-24k-image03

    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Wed Aug 26, 2020 8:06 pm

    This is non-autoclave infusion composite molding. The wings of the MC-21 are also "cast" this way.

    https://www.compositesworld.com/articles/infused-wing-sheds-light-on-aerocomposites-future

    Those mud hut dwellers!

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:48 am

    It's a little misleading I think

    As those blades were tested on the flying lab Mi-24 (based on the Mi-24K), which is single-seat and has no wings. They managed to get that thing up to 400 km/h. I believe the plans call for getting it up to 440-450 km/h with subsequent modifications.

    But still just the blades will provide a speed boost to serial Mi-24 and Mi-28 machines too; even +20-30 km/h would be good

    That is the question though... to what extent were the old blade designs holding back aircraft speeds... on any conventional rotor bladed helicopter you have a rotor blade on one side of the helicopter going forward generating lift and also a blade on the opposite side going backward also generating lift. The airspeed at 300km/h flying forward means the attacking blade... the blade going forward has 300km/h of extra wind flow to add to the lift it is generating so its lift angle into the wind would need to be quite shallow to avoid generating too much lift and creating a roll effect. The retreating blade on the other hand has 300km/h reverse wind so it needs to be angled up significantly to compensate and balance the lift being generated by the attacking blade on the other side of the helicopter. The faster you fly the worse it becomes and the speed limit is dictated by the retreating blade stall... where the retreating blade is angled up so high to generate life moving backwards through the airflow that essentially it is no longer generating lift and instead is just batting the air and creating drag... the helicopter will then roll over to that side and crash...

    Improved blade tips and reduced weight blades, might increase speed by allowing higher forward speeds without stalls...

    Perhaps even being able to drop the nose to the level that instead of acting like free spinning wings like on a gyrocopter, the blades instead provide direct thrust like the propeller on the nose of an aircraft where all blades are essentially pulling evenly through the incoming air flow even higher speeds can be attained...

    Of course with Coaxial designed rotors retreating blade stall is not a problem because with two sets of rotors there are always two blades going forwards and two going back...

    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS on Thu Aug 27, 2020 4:39 pm

    GarryB wrote:Improved blade tips and reduced weight blades, might increase speed by allowing higher forward speeds without stalls...

    I think these blade tips address the problem of the tips going transonic at high forward speeds, which is additional to that of the retreating blade you comment. That is why it will only provide a short term mitigating effect or small speed increase, bigger increases in speed will demand newer approaches.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Aug 28, 2020 8:41 am

    It is like the squeak you hear in your car... you search and search and eventually you find what is making it and you fix it... but once that squeak is gone you then start hearing the next noise that you didn't notice when you had the squeak but this will annoy you even more because you were expecting silence.

    I doubt a fix to blade tips will transform the speed of a helicopter... who knows how much it limited speed, but most helicopter blades are constant speed rotation so flight speed shouldn't have that much effect on them... they don't speed up or slow down the rotation rate... they change the pitch angle of the blades to change lift or flight speed of the aircraft.

    When they upgraded the Hind using parts developed for the Havoc they said the rotor was made 300kgs lighter and the blades were 20-30% more efficient and generated so many kgs more lift... so this change should further improve things without burning more fuel or making more noise or making it expensive.

    The angled wings on the high speed model are not that much different from the old wings from the Hind which were high lift angled designs too... they said when they upgraded them to the more stubby modern ones that replicate those on the Havoc that it would reduce the amount of weight off loaded from the main rotor during forward flight, which was not so good, but it also improve lift performance in the hover which it spend rather more time doing at near max weights so they decided it was worth it.

    The reduced sized wing also allowed the older Ataka and Shturm missiles to be carried in bundles of 8 per outer pylon so with the new wing it could carry 16 ATGMs and two rocket pods or gun pods... which is rather better than the old Hind which had a total of four ATGMs on the wing tips and then twin ATGMs on each under wing pylons or rocket pods underwing for either four ATGMs and four rocket pods or 12 ATGMs or 8 ATGMs and two rocket pods...

    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python on Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:16 pm

    Serial production of the updated Mi-35P has begun

    Russian Helicopters holding company (part of rostec state Corporation) has started mass production of Mi-35P combat helicopters in an updated appearance under an export contract at Rostvertol, the Corporation's press service reported on Sunday.
    "Last year, we demonstrated this machine to a number of potential customers and today we can say with confidence that the helicopter is in demand – today, serial production of the Mi-35P has begun under the first contract signed with a foreign customer," TASS reports Andrey Boginsky, CEO of the holding.
    the Mil and Rostvertol design bureaus upgraded the Mi-24 attack helicopter under the working name Mi-35P+. The helicopter received an analog-digital complex for guided missiles, which were not previously used on this type of helicopter. Also, there are optical-electronic system.

    Shame they don't name the customer
    Perhaps Venezuela
    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS on Fri Aug 28, 2020 6:06 pm

    GarryB wrote:I doubt a fix to blade tips will transform the speed of a helicopter... who knows how much it limited speed, but most helicopter blades are constant speed rotation so flight speed shouldn't have that much effect on them... they don't speed up or slow down the rotation rate... they change the pitch angle of the blades to change lift or flight speed of the aircraft.

    I seem to remember a speed increase between 10-15% for existing models being mentioned. Since it comes apparently without downsides it is a very nice improvement.
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Mon Nov 23, 2020 5:49 pm

    This is the deadliest looking Christmas Tree, Rave Party, helicopter I've ever seen! Shocked
    Mi-24/Mi-35M Hinds: News - Page 7 Em71llzW4AAwZez?format=jpg&name=medium

    Don't remember Tron looking like this? Wink

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