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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #4

    arpakola
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #4 - Page 20 Empty DNI nationalises Akhmetov's factories ?

    Post  arpakola on Wed May 21, 2014 10:46 am

    http://www.dnrnovosti.com/2014/05/blog-post_5778.html


    What a mass meeting !!
    (a new orange revolution is starting at DONBuss.. !! jok,,)

    DNI nationalises Akhmetov's factories ?


    Last edited by arpakola on Wed May 21, 2014 10:58 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  Regular on Wed May 21, 2014 10:54 am

    If they nationalise it how they will pay wages to workers? Where is their budget?
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    Post  arpakola on Wed May 21, 2014 11:05 am

    Regular wrote:If they nationalise it how they will pay wages to workers? Where is their budget?

    Αhkmandof has a lot of profit out of it..
    My friend .. workers are produsing  always .. more then they are paid .. ALWAYS.. that is one of the rules of capitalism..

    =============================
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9yjshy2Qva0

    Mount Karachun (near Slavyansk) under mortar fire.
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    Post  Hannibal Barca on Wed May 21, 2014 11:58 am

    arpakola wrote:
    Regular wrote:If they nationalise it how they will pay wages to workers? Where is their budget?

    Αhkmandof has a lot of profit out of it..
    My friend .. workers are produsing  always .. more then they are paid .. ALWAYS.. that is one of the rules of capitalism..

    =============================
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9yjshy2Qva0

    Mount Karachun (near Slavyansk) under mortar fire.


    What a retarded comment for a retarded jewish alcoholic who still hunts humanity 150 years afterward.
    If you could get as much as you were producing then why should someone give you his means of production, his capital, his expertise, or cooperate with you!?
    I mean total crap mate! Is like if saying that an internal combustion engine always burns more fuel that the  energy output she produces.
    Damn we do know this, friction, thermal loss and constrains always take the bulk of it. No friction no compression in first place so total idiocy of stating the obvious.

    btw Go say this principle to the countless of state enterprises or private ones who report loses instead of profits...
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    Post  arpakola on Wed May 21, 2014 12:37 pm

    Кадыров обещает действовать жестко, если группу LifeNews не отпустят
    http://lifenews.ru/news/133569

    http://lifenews.ru/news/133567

    ===================================

    Deal !!!
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #4 - Page 20 BoJwHURIMAAd-7y
    ======================

    but in KIEV .. they are happy now.. (have their reasons?)
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    Post  arpakola on Wed May 21, 2014 2:19 pm

    [quote="Hannibal Barca"]
    arpakola wrote:
    Regular wrote:If they nationalise it how they will pay wages to workers? Where is their budget?

    Αhkmandof has a lot of profit out of it..
    My friend .. workers are produsing  always .. more then they are paid .. ALWAYS.. that is one of the rules of capitalism..

    =============================

    What a retarded comment for a retarded jewish alcoholic who still hunts humanity 150 years afterward.
    If you could get as much as you were producing then why should someone give you his means of production, his capital, his expertise, or cooperate with you!?
    I mean total crap mate! Is like if saying that an internal combustion engine always burns more fuel that the  energy output she produces.
    Damn we do know this, friction, thermal loss and constrains always take the bulk of it. No friction no compression in first place so total idiocy of stating the obvious.

    btw Go say this principle to the countless of state enterprises or private ones who report loses instead of profits...

    Such large strategic enterprices .. like coal extraction can operate under socsial control. After all the oligarchs , prooven now, they will use their powers and money to support KIEV. So nationalise them looks a good idea.
    Talking only about Large Coal industries , electricity production , transport etc.. not every single enterprice
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    Post  Hannibal Barca on Wed May 21, 2014 4:18 pm

    Nothing ever worked well with social control. FACT. Reasons too many and too obvious.

    -Incentives for one.
    -Human nature for antagonism an other.
    -Decision making norms that must be somehow centralized and decisive.
    -Cold economic decisions against syndicate interests an other.
    -Economy against politics yet an other.
    -Decisions not influenced from state/local/political leverage should be mentioned.
    -Market rules against sentimental policies.
    -Unequal distribution of power/wealth that promote risk or ability.
    -Anti-corruption environment based on the fact that workers may punished/promote according to their performance and they don't protected by a guaranteed position

    and many many others...

    This was the battlefield of Cold War 1 and capitalism triumphed. Clever people never commit the same mistakes twice.

    Cold War 2 will be about private, derivative based, debt monitored  capitalism against nationalist centered, state supervised,  industrialist driven, with controlled balance sheets  capitalism.
    China/Russia/Axis model vs English/Jewish system. Let's define the game first..

    PS: You can take control, threaten, weaken or even kill the pro western industrialists of East Ukraine and should probably act fast and undercover, but nationalizing their companies and go for an old school social crap IS NOT the way to go or prosper. Shoot the and change them with new loyal patriotic guys is the  Putin/Chinese way and is substantially better after all.


    Last edited by Hannibal Barca on Wed May 21, 2014 4:26 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    Post  Vann7 on Wed May 21, 2014 4:18 pm


    Ukraine have a debt of $3.5 billions US dollars to Russia in Gas alone.. and about $15 billions for other things.
    IF Russia Annex Donetsk and Lugansk now..and or invade.. Then kiev will refuse to pay its debt and still receive Gas by reverse from Europe from the one Russia supply them and at their prices..and kiev could also cut the Electricity and water supply to the east and then
    Russia will have to deal with that major problem and this aside of the war they will need to face against the Ukraine army and its radicals.
    This is why is not on interest of Russia to invade Ukraine and try to avoid as much as possible to enter.. and instead they will prefer to send undercover veterans well armed with anti tank rockets and manpads to help.
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    Post  Hannibal Barca on Wed May 21, 2014 4:25 pm

    Vann7 wrote:
    Ukraine have a debt of $3.5 billions US dollars to Russia in Gas alone.. and about $15 billions for other things.
    IF Russia Annex Donetsk and Lugansk now..and or invade.. Then kiev will refuse to pay its debt and still receive Gas by reverse from Europe from the one Russia supply them and at their prices..and kiev could also cut the Electricity and water supply to the east and then
    Russia will have to deal with that major problem and this aside of the war they will need to face against the Ukraine army and its radicals.
    This is why is not on interest of Russia to invade Ukraine and try to avoid as much as possible to enter.. and instead they will prefer to send undercover veterans well armed with anti tank rockets and manpads to help.


    -Ukraine can't repaid her bills anyway

    -Without Lugansk, Donetsk etc. Ukraine will NEVER be a feasible economic entity, it will be a thorn to the eye of IMF.

    -Ukraine might get energy indirectly from Europe (which I doubt anyway) but then Eurocunts will have to pay the bill  Laughing 

    -Undercover operations might very well be the way of choice if proven to be decisive. If not, more radical measures should be taken..
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Wed May 21, 2014 6:49 pm

    Vann7 wrote:
    Ukraine have a debt of $3.5 billions US dollars to Russia in Gas alone.. and about $15 billions for other things.
    IF Russia Annex Donetsk and Lugansk now..and or invade.. Then kiev will refuse to pay its debt and still receive Gas by reverse from Europe from the one Russia supply them and at their prices..and kiev could also cut the Electricity and water supply to the east and then
    Russia will have to deal with that major problem and this aside of the war they will need to face against the Ukraine army and its radicals.
    This is why is not on interest of Russia to invade Ukraine and try to avoid as much as possible to enter.. and instead they will prefer to send undercover veterans well armed with anti tank rockets and manpads to help.

    It's extremely unlikely Kiev can pay it's gas debt back by themselves, how can Ukraine pay it's gas debt without others subsidizing their incompetence? They said they'll pay a portion of their gas debt back if they get subsidized gas, which means that Russia will never gets it's gas debt paid back in full and will lose future income because of the subsidized gas to benefit a Russophobic regime! Lets not forget at the same time Kiev is cutting water off for Crimea (an idea that they surely got from the Islamist terrorists in Aleppo). On top of not getting it's gas debt paid back Kiev will undermine Russia's arms industry, so in the long run letting Kiev get away with murder will actually cost Russia tens of billions more in lost income and contracts due to Kiev's meddling, so in the process of separating the East and South from the West, and in return the Ukraine will lose most of it's economy and Russia will gain all the industrialized East and South and keep the money for themselves.

    Again originally I didn't support a Russian invasion of Ukraine (and it doesn't have to be an invasion it could be a proxy war where Russia holds a no fly zone with S-400's and Iskander-M's involved to give Pro-Russian Rebels the edge), but when Congress wants to undermine Russia's nuclear potential than were talking about a whole different animal here. If it goes through than it's definitive evidence that Ukraine is nothing more than a glorified ABM base, and Russia has already said that they'll take preventative measures against the illicit proliferation of ABM bases around it's borders. Russia takes the South and East and they'll lose a few billion temporarily from Western companies pulling out but Russia will rebound when Chinese companies take their place, plus Russia want's to diversify trade away from NATO states and trade with China is under $90 billion a year which both sides agreed in bilateral trade talks that the goal is to raise it over a $100 billion a year. Cutting contracts with the Chinese almost always produced better dividends for the other side (such as financing massive infrastructure projects that Russia's far east desperately needs) compared to Western companies (who love to lobby NATO to topple governments to get sweetheart deals), hence the reason why China was able to out-lend the World Bank in 2010 (Africans unanimously chose China economically over the West for a reason):

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-pacific-12212936

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-12-28/china-exim-loans-to-sub-sahara-africa-exceed-world-bank-funds-fitch-says.html

    ...But if Russia lets Kiev get away with murder, Russia stands to lose potentially everything instantly in a thermonuclear first-strike (which the Iron Maidanuts have already glorified and fantasized about such megadeath scenarios in private conversation)! Russia has already capitulated too much in the past 20 years, It's the same with Syria, Russia cant fulfill arms contracts to Syria because of sanctions, but at the same time the Pentagon is engaging in arms trafficking in Syria! How many more sacrifices should Russia make ultimately to gain nothing and to lose significantly more?
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Wed May 21, 2014 7:37 pm

    This may have very well been the work of Tartar extremists that Pepe Escobar and myself have warned about (and or Right Sector), only time will tell:

    Car explosion near a hospital in Simferopol, Crimea

    It has operated a vehicle next to a hospital in the Crimean city of Simferopol. Specialists are investigating the incident.

    "The group of operations research to the Research Committee of the Republic of Crimea has come to the scene of the incident. Inspection is performed and then the results and more detailed information is given", told Itar-Tass on Commission Research of the Republic of Crimea. moment the vehicle type is not specified and if no victims or injured after the explosion. More soon.

    Complete text: http://actualidad.rt.com/actualidad/view/128795-explotar-auto-simferopol-crimea?utm_source=browser&utm_medium=aplication_chrome&utm_campaign=chrome

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    Post  arpakola on Wed May 21, 2014 9:57 pm

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    Post  Vann7 on Thu May 22, 2014 12:00 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:This may have very well been the work of Tartar extremists that Pepe Escobar and myself have warned about (and or Right Sector), only time will tell:

    Car explosion near a hospital in Simferopol, Crimea

    It has operated a vehicle next to a hospital in the Crimean city of Simferopol. Specialists are investigating the incident.

    "The group of operations research to the Research Committee of the Republic of Crimea has come to the scene of the incident. Inspection is performed and then the results and more detailed information is given", told Itar-Tass on Commission Research of the Republic of Crimea. moment the vehicle type is not specified and if no victims or injured after the explosion.  More soon.  

    Complete text: http://actualidad.rt.com/actualidad/view/128795-explotar-auto-simferopol-crimea?utm_source=browser&utm_medium=aplication_chrome&utm_campaign=chrome



    My best guess it was a western secret service operation that seek the blaming of tatars in Crimea, with exported terrorist in Crimea and with the full help of Kiev.RUssia will have a challenge of inspecting for explosives in every car. But it also could be Tatars too. Im sure it will no be the first one. One way to counter such attacks is to install Cameras everywhere ..check points every 5 minutes in car ,wire tap all phone communications in All crimea ,(screw Snowden) so that after every attack they can monitor which phone calls are made to where..  Any phone call at midnight to Kiev will be suspicious. Also every car to have a sticker properly identify from which Town it comes.. So if a car is stolen (as usually happens with car bombs) and try to enter another town then it will be detained and its owners fully investigated. If the car is stolen from the same town the bomb attack will happen..then its real owners will warn police of the incident and all police will have the order to arrest the car. So in summary. Russia can make it very hard for terrorist if they have..

    1)Checkpoints ,Checkpoints and checkpoints.. everywhere.
    2)Every Car indentifyied with an official sticker which town it comes
    3)Cameras in every corner of Crimea ,so as soon a bomb happens ,its author will be on tape..
    4) security access in every town with cameras filming the license plate of every car that enters or leave at any hour.
    5)Wire tapping all phone calls in crimea.
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    Post  Regular on Thu May 22, 2014 12:26 am

    Sorry guys, You can say what ever about Russia getting Crimea, but prestige wise Russia took it up the arse. 
    After Ukraine there will be Belarus or Kazakhstan...
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    Post  macedonian on Thu May 22, 2014 12:51 am

    Regular wrote:Sorry guys, You can say what ever about Russia getting Crimea, but prestige wise Russia took it up the arse. 
    After Ukraine there will be Belarus or Kazakhstan...
    Not likely.

    NOW I am convinced that Russia is playing all the right moves. As opposed to how I felt before.
    Russia reads the cards the US has as if they have an X-Ray vision. I feel that they knew that this was bound to happen in Ukraine - and they let it happen.
    See, their game is to let the ignorant trumpet about their 'exclusiveness' around the world. Let the world know just how threatened it is by these cowboys...

    To put it in culinary terms: America wants its burger RIGHT NOW, while Russia is all about slow food...we all know what damage fast food does to your body in the long term (though not fast evident), as oppose to how slowfood keeps you vital for years...

    So - yeah, let the cowboys feel that they've won...shootin' their way around town...not expecting the O.K. Coral showdown...and THAT'S where the duel will be won (and lost for some).

    It's the Roman Empire all over again.
    Hubris makes one weak when he feels strongest.
    People truly NEVER learn.
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    Post  TR1 on Thu May 22, 2014 1:18 am

    Regular wrote:Sorry guys, You can say what ever about Russia getting Crimea, but prestige wise Russia took it up the arse. 
    After Ukraine there will be Belarus or Kazakhstan...

    What? I don't see any similar movement in those nations, because they are not Russophobic like the Ukraine at all.

    If anything, this is a continuation of 2008: Russia can, and will act in its periphery. For wrong or right.
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    Post  GarryB on Thu May 22, 2014 3:43 am

    I can't find it now, but there was a news article quite a while back about how Russian investment and subsidies kept the Ukraine afloat the last 3-4 years... some lady from the IMF or something said so.

    Regular... you sound like the Ukraine is some sort of prize and that the US is winning... to be honest it is a prize like East Germany was a prize for West Germany... whoever wins wins a very significant economic burden that is split in two. If you want to hold it together then you will find half the population actively working against you so any small progress you make can easily be undone.

    If the EU does get that basket case then it will do more damage to Europe than to Russia... so I can see why the US has been pushing for this all along.

    For Russia... well what difference does it make... a hostile Ukraine that cooperates every other election and then backstabs you when the other guys get in, or exactly the same thing that is a member of the EU...

    The other option that might involve a full civil war will never be worth the cost.
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    Post  Vann7 on Thu May 22, 2014 4:39 am

    Regular wrote:Sorry guys, You can say what ever about Russia getting Crimea, but prestige wise Russia took it up the arse. 
    After Ukraine there will be Belarus or Kazakhstan...

    You need to think in terms of economy first..

    If Russia army invade now Ukraine ,for sure will control Donetsk and Lugansk withing hours and push the ukraine army back.
    However sending 40,000 soldiers into Ukraine with tanks and generals is very costly. it could cost $1 billion per day or couple of days such operation. Then kiev radicals will start increasing their violence in retaliation to other cities against Russians. So if Russia invade ,they will need to stop in Kiev and all the way to the west of Ukraine to protect Russians from nazis retaliation. And then you will have NATO special forces undercover firing javelins and Spike missiles to Russian tanks with remote road side bombs everywhere and Russia will suffer thousands casualties over a long war of months.  Then you will have civilians that do not support Russia ,and will start blocking Russian tanks..this will be used by all murdering media in the west for decades to demonize Russia. and will create Unrest in Russian cities too for the protest.When a nation is at war ,that also draw away foreign investors in the country.  So what US really want is damage Russia economy and damage Russia world image too.

    Sending a few hundred undercover mercenaries is better. On Top that if Russia invades then Ukraine will have justification to not pay its
    debt.  Ukraine is a bankrupt country.. is a time bomb ,because a major civil war will happen. Not if but when.. because Kiev will not have money to pay any government employer its salary and its army will defect when not paid for long.. So it will be much more wise.. For Russia than when a major civil war start  when the entire economy of Ukraine collapse ,that Russia is not inside ukraine.. so that their economy problems will not be blamed on Russia. That will teach Ukrainians that joining the European Union and having USA support do not fix their
    problems.. and will realize the hard way ,that they need to get closer to Russia. Specially when they notice people in Crimea doing very well.  Wink

    SO Ukrainians have a major problem of being brainwashed into thinking that Joining the EU ,and having USA in charge of their nation will magically turn into gold their  streets ,and turn Ukraine a very prosperous nation. They will be all awakened how wrong they were into thinking ,there was any freedom or prosperity under the EU. And will see for the first time ,that it was a terrible mistake to allow US to take control of their nation. And when the time bomb explode ,and a full civil war start ,is when everyone who was Pro EU and PRO USA ,will plead Russia to take them back. And when that happens it will be very easy for Russia to help. No longer will be any doubt in Ukrainians mind that their future is with Russia and not with NATO.. So Russian actions are planned for Long Term..Is on the interest of Russia to have a friendly Ukraine with Russia ,regardless if they are in the EU. Invading now with tanks ,will allow all western neocon media to have a field day with negative propaganda against Russia.. accusing them of killing civilians women and children just for their political views.

    If you think in terms of saving lives.. then Russian invading Ukraine and taking control of the east.. will provoke many Ukrainian casualties and hostile attacks in the entire country against any Russian population. So yes Russia will protect Donetsk and Lugansk.. but what about Mariupol? Odessa? Kharkiv? Central Ukraine? it could have the opposite effect of making Ukrainians seek revenge against anyone that is Russian in any part of Ukraine.
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    Post  arpakola on Thu May 22, 2014 7:07 am

    Vann7 wrote:
    Ukraine have a debt of $3.5 billions US dollars to Russia in Gas alone.. and about $15 billions for other things.
    IF Russia Annex Donetsk and Lugansk now..and or invade.. Then kiev will refuse to pay its debt and still receive Gas by reverse from Europe from the one Russia supply them and at their prices..and kiev could also cut the Electricity and water supply to the east and then
    Russia will have to deal with that major problem and this aside of the war they will need to face against the Ukraine army and its radicals.
    This is why is not on interest of Russia to invade Ukraine and try to avoid as much as possible to enter.. and instead they will prefer to send undercover veterans well armed with anti tank rockets and manpads to help.

    Forget the gas issue. For any one to divert back must partially buy from Russia.
    Independ and donbuss has nothing to do with Russia .
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    Post  AirCargo on Thu May 22, 2014 8:00 am

    New York Times-Europe

    Solidarity Eludes Ukraine Separatist Groups as Presidential Election Nears


    By ANDREW ROTH and DAVID M. HERSZENHORNMAY 21, 2014

    DONETSK, Ukraine — With a critical presidential election looming on Sunday, rifts are appearing among the patchwork of separatist groups that have seized control of public buildings in numerous cities in southeastern Ukraine.

    In an interview on Wednesday, a rebel politician in Slovyansk said he did not recognize the authority of the self-proclaimed government of the Donetsk region and suggested he could use force to seize control.  Vyacheslav Ponomaryov, the self-declared mayor of the city of Slovyansk, where Ukrainian troops and anti-Kiev militias have engaged in sporadic fighting for several weeks, said that there was no contact between him and the new republic’s government and suggested he could order the city’s paramilitary groups to “restore order” in Donetsk.  “We are here fighting, and they are sitting around stuffing themselves,” Mr. Ponomaryov said by telephone from the city, which has been surrounded by Ukrainian military checkpoints and is in a region where shelling and shootouts have occurred in recent weeks. “It’s not a difference of opinion,” he said. “We have fundamentally opposing views.”

    Mr. Ponomaryov’s statements suggested open hostility between Donetsk, where the Donetsk People’s Republic declared autonomy from Kiev after organizing a referendum this month, and several heavily armed stronghold cities to the northwest.   But with armed groups in Slovyansk and elsewhere under the control of a shadowy military commander named Igor Strelkov, it was not immediately clear that Mr. Ponomaryov’s denunciation of his fellow revolutionaries carried any real weight.

    The separatist groups were knocked off balance earlier this month when President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia announced his intention to withdraw tens of thousands of Russian troops from the Ukrainian border, recommended that Ukraine solve its political problems through dialogue, and even gave tacit backing to the presidential election. Whether they can maintain their previous momentum without the implicit military and political backing of the Kremlin remains to be seen.

    Mr. Ponomaryov’s statements came as Ukraine’s provisional government has tried to cobble together support and improve the chances of a legitimate vote on Sunday. At a round-table session in the southern city of Mykolaiv, representatives of the Kiev government received a generally warm reception amid what seemed to be broad support for the talks, which are intended to help resolve the political crisis.  Mykola P. Romanchuk, the governor of the Mykolaiv region, praised the effort at dialogue. “The right way to solve any problems — economic, judicial and, today, political,” Mr. Romanchuk said, “we need to solve at the round table.”  The atmosphere was notably lighter than at the previous session in the eastern city of Kharkiv, where officials from the embattled region at times openly questioned the motives and even the legitimacy of the provisional government.

    Officials described Sunday’s presidential election as critical to Ukraine’s moving forward after the recent months of unrest. The acting prime minister, Arseniy P. Yatsenyuk, said the government was working steadily to carry out a series of structural changes, including constitutional amendments, and a decentralization plan that will give greater budget authority to local officials.  Mr. Yatsenyuk said the government was also committed to tightening ties with Europe through formal political and trade agreements. “We have no other way,” he said. Mr. Yatsenyuk also sounded optimistic about the east, collectively known as Donbass, where he said separatist groups were clearly weakened.  “In the last few days, the situation in Donbass has turned around,” Mr. Yatsenyuk said. “The self-proclaimed Donbass republics will control neither Donbass nor Ukraine. I can call it an achievement of our common efforts.”  In a visit to a military base located near the city of Slovyansk, Oleksandr V. Turchynov, Ukraine’s acting president, told local news media that Kiev’s military campaign against the rebel groups was entering its “final phase” and vowed to “cleanse the Donetsk and Lugansk regions of terrorists.”

    Denis Pushilin, the speaker for the revolutionary republic’s parliament based in Donetsk, denounced the military campaign and said that if it continued it could provoke a military response from Russia.  Speaking in his office on the 10th floor of the seized regional administration building in Donetsk, Mr. Pushilin on Wednesday denied any rift between himself and Mr. Ponomaryov.  He said that Mr. Ponomaryov had received “incorrect information” because the military blockade of the city had hampered communications, which could be monitored by the Ukrainian military.  But Mr. Pushilin said that relations remained strong with Mr. Strelkov, who he said controlled all the paramilitary groups in the region.

    Ukrainian media outlets, many of them openly hostile to anti-Kiev forces in the east, have reported that heightened tensions have led to arguments and even armed clashes among rebel commanders in several cities.  Both Mr. Pushilin and Mr. Ponomaryov denied that serious fighting had taken place.

    On Tuesday, several military trucks with armed men bearing a Russian flag sped into Donetsk from the north and surrounded the headquarters of the Ukrainian Security Service, which has been occupied by members of a Donetsk-based militia. Sentries dressed in military fatigues and armed with automatic rifles were posted at crossroads leading to the building, and city police officers prevented pedestrians from entering the area.  A guard, who did not give his name but identified himself as a second lieutenant in the army of the Donetsk People’s Republic, said they had come from the city of Horlivka, which is located to the north of Donetsk, in order to “instill order” among members of a local militia.  “There is no discipline” among them, he said, adding that the local militias were “unprofessional” and had not been registered. “Horlivka made the revolution.”
    Andrew Roth reported from Donetsk, and David M. Herszenhorn from Kiev, Ukraine.
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #4 - Page 20 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #4

    Post  arpakola on Thu May 22, 2014 10:00 am

    AirCargo wrote:New York Times-Europe

    Solidarity Eludes Ukraine Separatist Groups as Presidential Election Nears


    By ANDREW ROTH and DAVID M. HERSZENHORNMAY 21, 2014

    DONETSK, Ukraine — With a critical presidential election looming on Sunday, rifts are appearing among the patchwork of separatist groups that have seized control of public buildings in numerous cities in southeastern Ukraine.

    In an interview on Wednesday, a rebel politician in Slovyansk said he did not recognize the authority of the self-proclaimed government of the Donetsk region and suggested he could use force to seize control.  Vyacheslav Ponomaryov, the self-declared mayor of the city of Slovyansk, where Ukrainian troops and anti-Kiev militias have engaged in sporadic fighting for several weeks, said that there was no contact between him and the new republic’s government and suggested he could order the city’s paramilitary groups to “restore order” in Donetsk.  “We are here fighting, and they are sitting around stuffing themselves,” Mr. Ponomaryov said by telephone from the city, which has been surrounded by Ukrainian military checkpoints and is in a region where shelling and shootouts have occurred in recent weeks. “It’s not a difference of opinion,” he said. “We have fundamentally opposing views.”

    Mr. Ponomaryov’s statements suggested open hostility between Donetsk, where the Donetsk People’s Republic declared autonomy from Kiev after organizing a referendum this month, and several heavily armed stronghold cities to the northwest.   But with armed groups in Slovyansk and elsewhere under the control of a shadowy military commander named Igor Strelkov, it was not immediately clear that Mr. Ponomaryov’s denunciation of his fellow revolutionaries carried any real weight.

    The separatist groups were knocked off balance earlier this month when President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia announced his intention to withdraw tens of thousands of Russian troops from the Ukrainian border, recommended that Ukraine solve its political problems through dialogue, and even gave tacit backing to the presidential election. Whether they can maintain their previous momentum without the implicit military and political backing of the Kremlin remains to be seen.

    Mr. Ponomaryov’s statements came as Ukraine’s provisional government has tried to cobble together support and improve the chances of a legitimate vote on Sunday. At a round-table session in the southern city of Mykolaiv, representatives of the Kiev government received a generally warm reception amid what seemed to be broad support for the talks, which are intended to help resolve the political crisis.  Mykola P. Romanchuk, the governor of the Mykolaiv region, praised the effort at dialogue. “The right way to solve any problems — economic, judicial and, today, political,” Mr. Romanchuk said, “we need to solve at the round table.”  The atmosphere was notably lighter than at the previous session in the eastern city of Kharkiv, where officials from the embattled region at times openly questioned the motives and even the legitimacy of the provisional government.

    Officials described Sunday’s presidential election as critical to Ukraine’s moving forward after the recent months of unrest. The acting prime minister, Arseniy P. Yatsenyuk, said the government was working steadily to carry out a series of structural changes, including constitutional amendments, and a decentralization plan that will give greater budget authority to local officials.  Mr. Yatsenyuk said the government was also committed to tightening ties with Europe through formal political and trade agreements. “We have no other way,” he said. Mr. Yatsenyuk also sounded optimistic about the east, collectively known as Donbass, where he said separatist groups were clearly weakened.  “In the last few days, the situation in Donbass has turned around,” Mr. Yatsenyuk said. “The self-proclaimed Donbass republics will control neither Donbass nor Ukraine. I can call it an achievement of our common efforts.”  In a visit to a military base located near the city of Slovyansk, Oleksandr V. Turchynov, Ukraine’s acting president, told local news media that Kiev’s military campaign against the rebel groups was entering its “final phase” and vowed to “cleanse the Donetsk and Lugansk regions of terrorists.”

    Denis Pushilin, the speaker for the revolutionary republic’s parliament based in Donetsk, denounced the military campaign and said that if it continued it could provoke a military response from Russia.  Speaking in his office on the 10th floor of the seized regional administration building in Donetsk, Mr. Pushilin on Wednesday denied any rift between himself and Mr. Ponomaryov.  He said that Mr. Ponomaryov had received “incorrect information” because the military blockade of the city had hampered communications, which could be monitored by the Ukrainian military.  But Mr. Pushilin said that relations remained strong with Mr. Strelkov, who he said controlled all the paramilitary groups in the region.

    Ukrainian media outlets, many of them openly hostile to anti-Kiev forces in the east, have reported that heightened tensions have led to arguments and even armed clashes among rebel commanders in several cities.  Both Mr. Pushilin and Mr. Ponomaryov denied that serious fighting had taken place.

    On Tuesday, several military trucks with armed men bearing a Russian flag sped into Donetsk from the north and surrounded the headquarters of the Ukrainian Security Service, which has been occupied by members of a Donetsk-based militia. Sentries dressed in military fatigues and armed with automatic rifles were posted at crossroads leading to the building, and city police officers prevented pedestrians from entering the area.  A guard, who did not give his name but identified himself as a second lieutenant in the army of the Donetsk People’s Republic, said they had come from the city of Horlivka, which is located to the north of Donetsk, in order to “instill order” among members of a local militia.  “There is no discipline” among them, he said, adding that the local militias were “unprofessional” and had not been registered. “Horlivka made the revolution.”
    Andrew Roth reported from Donetsk, and David M. Herszenhorn from Kiev, Ukraine.

    "In an interview on Wednesday, a rebel politician in Slovyansk said he.."

    well... do we need to argue any further on the issue?
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #4 - Page 20 Empty Боевика, расстреливавшего людей в Одессе, отправили под домашний арест

    Post  arpakola on Thu May 22, 2014 10:01 am

    Боевика, расстреливавшего людей в Одессе, отправили под домашний арест
    http://www.dnrnovosti.com/2014/05/blog-post_881.html

    Под домашний арест отпустил суд Одессы активиста Евромайдана Сергея Ходиака, который подозревается в стрельбе из охотничьего ружья по милиционерам, демонстрантам и прохожим 2 мая. 2 мая в Одессе шесть человек получили смертельные ранения из огнестрельного оружия.
    Ещё пятеро были ранены дробью из охотничьего оружия, напоминает ИТАР-ТАСС. После беспорядков задержаны 12 человек, заведены уголовные дела по шести статьям Уголовного кодекса Украины.
    Беспорядки в Одессе начались с марша, устроенного приехавшими из Киева экстремистами "Правого сектора", самообороной Майдана и футбольными фанатами из Харькова. Они подожгли палаточный городок на Куликовом поле.
    Находившиеся на Куликовом поле сборщики подписей за проведение референдума о федерализации Украины и наделении русского языка статусом государственного укрылись в Доме профсоюзов. Дом профсоюзов нападавшие подожгли коктейлями Молотова.
    В беспорядках от огня, отравления хлороформом, огнестрельных ранений и бит погибли 48 человек, 247 — пострадали. Ряд украинских политиков заявлял, что киевские власти сознательно занижают число жертв. По некоторым данным, погибших может быть до 116 человек.
    По словам начальника Главного следственного управления МВД Украины Виталия Сакала, для расследования беспорядков в Одессе создана следственно-оперативная группа из 200 человек, привлечены иностранные эксперты.
    Между тем, в одесских СМИ опубликованы фото- и видеоматериалы, которые свидетельствуют о том, что в ходе беспорядков Сергей Ходиак действительно стрелял в людей, в том числе сотрудников правоохранительных органов, из обреза охотничьего ружья.
    Одесский областной совет в середине мая запретил пребывание на территории области незаконных вооруженных формирований.
    "Радикалов не должно быть на улицах — это мое отношение к "Правому сектору". Я считаю эту группу заранее полностью финансированной какими-то людьми с какими-то определенными целями. Везде, где они появлялись, были только провокации", — заявил губернатор области Игорь Палица.
    Убрать из Одессы присланных из Киева боевиков "Правого сектора" требовал и уволенный после беспорядков начальник одесской милиции Петр Луцюк.
    "В Киеве собралось большое количество людей, которые остались без присмотра, было принято решение направить эти формирования в Одессу. Мы в этом не нуждаемся. Они приехали и создают нестабильную ситуацию", — выступил 4 мая перед депутатами областного совета Петр Луцюк.
    Он также проинформировал о конфликтах, возникающих у радикалов с одесситами, а также об обнаруженном милицией складе, на который они завезли оружие и боеприпасы.
    Присутствие экстремистов в городе необходимо, "чтобы контролировать милицию", утверждает назначенный Киевом прежний губернатор области Владимир Немировский.
    Приехавший в Одессу секретарь Совбеза Украины Андрей Парубий встретился с боевиками и передал им бронежилеты и другое снаряжение.  

    ==============================

    http://lifenews.ru/news/133637
    Бойцы Коломойского атаковали военнослужащих за отказ воевать35 военнослужащих ранены в результате карательной операции боевиков, приехавших в украинское село Благодатное на машинах "Приватбанка".

    В селе Благодатном Донецкой области, что на российско-украинской границе, произошло вооруженное столкновение. На лагерь украинских военных напали боевики из Киева. Они действовали при поддержке бронетехники и боевых вертолетов. Часть из них прибыли на место на машинах "Приватбанка".

    Столкновение произошло в районе блокпоста между поселками Благодатное и Ольгинка. Как сообщил источник в РОВД Волновахского района, обстрелу подвергся блокпост украинской армии.

    По словам местных жителей, ставших очевидцами нападения, неизвестные, приехавшие на инкассаторских машинах "Приватбанка" и двух джипах, открыли огонь по украинским военным, отказавшимся ранее стрелять по мирным жителям.

    – Жители Благодатного встали на защиту своих домов. Солдатам нацгвардии приказали подавить сопротивление. Те отказались стрелять в людей, и в итоге их наказали, – говорит источник в штабе командования самообороны.

    По данным собеседника, это была карательная операция по заказу олигарха Игоря Коломойского – владельца "Приватбанка", известного тем, что он финансировал протесты на Майдане и выплачивал вознаграждения бойцам "Правого сектора".

    Нацгвардия попыталась оказать сопротивление нападавшим, но тех поддержала бронетехника и военные вертолеты. Один из снарядов, выпущенный боевой машиной, попал в склад боеприпасов. В результате взрыва пострадали по меньшей мере 35 человек.

    =============================


    The Situation in the Ukraine. #4 - Page 20 1418338

    =================================

    http://rt.com/politics/160468-russia-zyuganov-ukraine-symonenko/
    Russian leftists blasts Kiev plans to ban Ukrainian Communist Party
    Russia’s KPRF has attacked plans of the acting Ukrainian president to ban the Communist party in the country, as a threat to all leftist and patriotic forces, and says such a step is typical of fascist regimes of the past.

    “All fascist regimes in the world started their activities with a ban on Communist parties. Such threats are a threat to all leftist popular and patriotic forces,” the leader of Russian Communists, Gennady Zyuganov, said at a roundtable in the State Duma on Wednesday.

    Zyuganov said the Communist Party of the Russian Federation had prepared a draft motion against the attempts to ban the Communist Party of Ukraine, and would submit it to the Lower House in the near future.
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #4 - Page 20 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #4

    Post  Vann7 on Thu May 22, 2014 10:37 am

    Please don't post anything from the New York TImes.. Or any other Neocons media. They are part of the problem of what happens in Ukraine ,the disinformation war. The leadership in DOnetsk and Lugansk was NOT self imposed.. it was elected by an assembly ,so if any police disagree with the authority all he needs to do participate in the next elections that will happen later to elect a permanent ministers. The leadership in Eastern part of Ukraine is temporary and anyone can participate in the next elections.  Neither Force ,violence or terror was used to choose the leadership in the east . Force was only used to siege buildings most of them took by unarmed people. But once buildings were taken , the
    temporary leadership was elected by vote.  What is clear is the the New York Times and all the jewish mafia elite media they control are trying to divide the local forces fighting the illegitimate Kiev authorities. But even if the report is a selective fact.. with misleading information something very classic of Zionist media , The opinion of one policeman means nothing.  The referendum numbers in donetsk shows 2.3 millions support the independence and only 200,000 about 10% wanted to remain with kiev.  So no one said it was 100% support
    that never happens in any election ,anywhere but overwhelming majority in the east to not want to be ruled by NAZis that always
    siege power through coups and never legally.  The coup early in 2014 ,was not the first one.. the same people tried several coups before
    in the past.


    Last edited by Vann7 on Thu May 22, 2014 12:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #4 - Page 20 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #4

    Post  TR1 on Thu May 22, 2014 12:02 pm

    National guard column/blockpost with 3 BMP and a BTR was attacked and essentially destroyed.
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #4 - Page 20 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #4

    Post  As Sa'iqa on Thu May 22, 2014 12:03 pm

    ...with at least 8 killed and 20 wounded, maybe 11 killed and 30 wounded

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