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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #4

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    Post  magnumcromagnon Mon May 19, 2014 12:34 am

    Steelworkers are forced to drive out pro-Russian forces out of Mariuopol:

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    Post  magnumcromagnon Mon May 19, 2014 12:36 am

    UKRAINE A Group Of Ukrainaian Forces Has Defected To The People's Republic Of Donetsk:

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    Post  magnumcromagnon Mon May 19, 2014 4:00 am

    Ukraine: The waiting game
    By Pepe Escobar

    Everything one needs to know about mediocre political elites allegedly representing the "values" of Western civilization has been laid bare by their reaction to the referendums in Donetsk and Lugansk.

    The referendums may have been a last-minute affair; organized in a rush; in the middle of a de facto civil war; and on top of it at gunpoint - supplied by the Kiev NATO neo-liberal neo-fascist junta, which even managed to kill some voters in Mariupol. An imperfect process? Yes. But absolutely perfect in terms of graphically

    depicting a mass movement in favor of self-rule and political independence from Kiev.

    This was direct democracy in action; no wonder the US State Department hated it with a vengeance. [1]

    Turnout was huge. The landslide victory for independence was out of the question. Same for transparency; a public vote, in glass ballot boxes, with monitoring provided by Western journalists - mostly from major German media but also from the Kyodo News Agency or the Washington Post.

    What should come after the Donetsk People's Republic proclaimed itself a sovereign state, and asked Moscow to consider its accession into Russia, is not secession, nor outright civil war, but a negotiation.

    That's clear by the Kremlin's measured official reaction: "Moscow respects the will of the people in Donetsk and Lugansk and hopes that the practical realization of the outcome of the referendums will be carried out in a civilized manner."

    The cautious tone is also reflected by the Kremlin urging the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) to help broker the negotiation.

    Yet once again, there's concrete proof that the NATO neo-liberal neo-fascist junta does not want to negotiate anything. Farcical "acting" President Oleksandr Turchynov labeled the exercise in direct democracy a "farce, which terrorists call the referendum"; and Washington and Brussels branded it "illegal".

    And all this after the Odessa massacre; after the deployment of neo-nazi paramilitaries disguised as a "National Guard" (the goons US corporate media calls "Ukrainian nationalists"); dozens of CIA and FBI agents on the ground; plus 300 of the inevitable Academi - former Blackwater - mercenaries. What else to expect when the current Ukrainian Secretary for National Security is neo-nazi Andriy Parubiy, the previous commander of the Maidan's "self-defense forces" and a cheerleader of World War II nazi collaborator Stepan Bandera.

    Banderastan - with its remix of 1980s Central American-style death squads - doesn't do referendums; they'd rather burn to death ethnic Russian civilian "insects" who dare to occupy buildings.

    So this is the key message of the referendums. We reject the Kiev NATO neo-liberal neo-fascist junta. It's an illegal "government" of putschists. We are not "pro-Russian" separatists. We don't want to secede. What we want is a unified, federal and civilized Ukraine, with strong autonomous provinces.

    R2P, anyone?
    The Empire of Chaos wants - what else - chaos. Crucially, the Empire of Chaos now blatantly supports the deployment of an "army against their own population"; this was strictly verboten - punishable by NATO bombs or NATO-enabled jihad - in Libya and Syria, but now is just the new normal in Ukraine.

    In Libya and in Syria - they tried three times at the UN - this would be the ultimate pretext for R2P ("responsibility to protect"). But in Ukraine the "terrorists" - Dubya-era terminology included - are the population, and the good guys are the Kiev neo-nazi militias. US ambassador to the UN and top R2P cheerleader Samantha Power exceeded all her previous levels of batshit craziness when she depicted the NATO junta onslaught against civilians as "reasonable" and "proportional", adding that "any of our countries" would have done the same in face of such a threat.

    Berlin, for its part, wants, tentatively, to go the diplomatic way, although there's a clear split between stony Atlanticists and German captains of industry - who have identified clearly how Washington is aiming no holds barred to destroy the Russo-German economic synergy. The Empire of Chaos's game is to erect a wall between them, manifested in practice by a Russian "invasion". It's true that Moscow could easily pull a Samantha and invoke R2P to protect Russians and Russophones in Ukraine. But chessmaster Putin knows better than to invent a new Afghanistan in his western borderlands.

    For Berlin all that matters is the economy. Germany will grow by 1.9% at best in 2014. With 6,200 German businesses in Russia and over 300,000 German jobs depending on two-way trade, American-style sanctions are beyond counter-productive, although Russophobia and Cold War 2.0 hysteria remains somewhat rampant.

    Paris, for instance, has seen the writing on the wall. The US$1.66 billion contract to sell two Mistral-class helicopter carriers to Russia will go ahead, as Paris diplomats admitted the cancellation - in terms of penalties and lost jobs - would hurt France much more than Russia.

    Over a month ago, on April 10, Putin sent a crucial letter to the 18 heads of state (five of them outside of the EU) whose countries import Russian gas via Ukraine. He was more than explicit; Moscow could not by itself keep financing the about-to-default Ukrainian economy. Between discount after discount and failing to impose penalty after penalty, since 2009 Moscow has subsided Kiev to the tune of an astonishing $35.4 billion. Europeans, Putin wrote, would also have to come to the table.

    That spectacular nullity, outgoing European Commission (EC) President Jose Manuel Barroso, although agreeing a dialogue is necessary, answered that Gazprom's new rule of only allowing gas to flow to Ukraine if paid in advance was "worrying". As if any European energy major would gladly dismiss unpaid bills.

    A neutral, Finlandized Ukraine would finish off for good the current mess. It's just a matter of waiting for the NATO neo-liberal neo-fascist junta to go broke, and frozen to death.

    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/CEN-01-130514.html
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #4 - Page 19 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #4

    Post  Vann7 Mon May 19, 2014 4:58 am

    Now they targeting civilians basic needs..  

    RT: Kiev army shells Kramatorsk, city ‘left without water’ – self-defense coordinator

    http://rt.com/news/159816-kiev-army-shell-kramatorsk/

    several videos inside. Seems some skirmish fights in kramatorsk and local defenses managed to
    push them away..

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    Post  magnumcromagnon Mon May 19, 2014 5:23 am

    arpakola wrote:Rally in Ukraine's Kharkov calls for boycotting presidential elections, promises referendum
    Read more: http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_05_18/Rally-in-Ukraines-Kharkov-calls-for-boycotting-presidential-elections-promises-referendum-5911/

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #4 - Page 19 9RIAN_02411831-1

    A traditional Sunday rally of supporters of federalization is under way in Kharkov at the foot of the Lenin monument.

    An Interfax correspondent reports that the rally involves activists of Southeast and Borotba movements as well as the Communist and Progressive Socialist Parties.
    "It is our task is to by no means go to elections. We should meet in this square on May 25: We won't recognize the elections," member of the coordinating council of Southeast Yury Apukhtin said.
    He criticized the second all-Ukrainian national unity roundtable held in Kharkov on Saturday saying that he refused to attend it even though he had been invited. He also promised that Kharkov would hold a referendum following the examples of Donetsk and Lugansk.
    Read more: http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_05_18/Rally-in-Ukraines-Kharkov-calls-for-boycotting-presidential-elections-promises-referendum-5911/

    ========================

    German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier has called for restraint in imposing new sanctions on Russia, as politicians, businesses and the general public in Germany grow ever more skeptical of putting more pressure on Moscow.

    Steinmeier defended the already imposed sanctions against Russia, but said that he still preferred "cooperation instead of confrontation" with Moscow, according to a Saturday interview with Thüringische Landeszeitung.

    “We must avoid falling into an automatic [sanctions] mode, which leads only to a dead end and leaves no more policy options,” Steinmeier said.

    The comment was made the same day Ukraine's acting Foreign Minister Andriy Deshchytsia appealed for toughening sanctions, including imposing “preventive” ones, against Russia in an interview to another German newspaper, Die Welt.

    The idea of slapping Moscow with any further restrictions appears to be lacking popular support in Germany. That was felt earlier this week in Berlin when Chancellor Angela Merkel, attending her party’s campaign event, was booed by a rally of protesters holding signs, which read 'Europe is strong only with Russia' or 'Stop the Nazis in Ukraine.'



    The Situation in the Ukraine. #4 - Page 19 Germany_1



    The Situation in the Ukraine. #4 - Page 19 Bn3R0BvCUAAj7Dl
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    Post  Vann7 Mon May 19, 2014 9:31 am

    Looks like NATO is now pushing the Tatars to boycott the new crimea republic with special rights..
    they want their own Assembly and historical names changed.. to the ones Tatar had. basically the want
    to turn Crimea in a Tatar land..  This is the reason why i believe they all had to be shot and not bother with deporting them
    when Stalin took control of Crimea. They now say they were angels and never helped Hitler to fight Soviets but there reports they did.
    In any case it looks like the west is going to push the Tatars to create unrest... they were against the reunification of Crimea with
    RUssia ,why Russia now needs to treat them like the Royalty?  This is what i hate of any group that use their  past as a weapon to earn
    world sympathy . As if it was Putin fault that they were deported.  What about all the European and Russians that were kidnapped by Tatars
    and sold as slaves to the turks?  Tatars main business was crime ,in the black sea..they dedicated to kidnap people and later sell them as slaves.  The Crimea republic needs to warn the Tatars of another Deportation if they do continue with their plans of wanting to receive
    special privileges based of what someone did 70 years ago in crimea. Tatars should have the same rights and not better than anyone in Crimea.    Tatars now are showing the first signs of Rebellion , because are making demands in public to the international community ,
    to help them get a special status.  IMHO Russia should have to be quick and divide them ,create division before they feel too tempted
    to try to declare some kind of mini republic inside crimea. The Tatars needs to be landlocked their territories very fast ,for the contruction
    of military bases and things like that. Just in case they paid and try to Rebel ,that they will end without access to the sea surrounded by Russian controlled zones.

    http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/732069

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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #4 - Page 19 Empty Putin Orders Russian Troops Back to Bases After Drills Near Ukraine

    Post  AirCargo Mon May 19, 2014 12:02 pm

    NEW YORK TIMES-Europe

    Putin Orders Russian Troops Back to Bases After Drills Near Ukraine

    By REUTERS MAY 19, 2014, 5:19 A.M. E.D.T.

    MOSCOW — Russian President Vladimir Putin has ordered military forces to return to their permanent bases after drills in three regions bordering Ukraine, the Kremlin said on Monday.

    Putin's office said he had issued the order because the spring manoeuvres were over. The move could also be intended to ease tension in Russia's standoff with the West over Ukraine before Kiev holds a presidential election on Sunday.

    In Brussels, however, a NATO military officer said the military alliance had seen no sign of the Russian troops returning to their bases.

    "We haven't seen any movement to validate (the report)," the officer, speaking on condition of anonymity, said.

    The Kremlin said in a statement that Putin had ordered his defence chief to return troops that had been involved in exercises in the border provinces of Rostov, Bryansk and Belgorod to their "places of permanent deployment".

    NATO has said Russia has amassed some 40,000 troops near the border with Ukraine, and Putin has reserved the right to send forces in to protect Russian-speakers if necessary.

    Their presence on the border increased tension after Russia's annexation of Crimea in March and raised fears in the West that Moscow could invade to support pro-Moscow separatists.

    It was not immediately clear how many soldiers would be moved away from border regions as a result of Putin's order. After Putin also said on May 7 that forces had been withdrawn from the frontier, but NATO and the United States said there were no signs of reductions.

    In another conciliatory signal, Putin welcomed what the Kremlin said were initial contacts between the Ukrainian government and "supporters of federalisation" who want more power for largely Russian-speaking regions in eastern Ukraine. Russia wants Kiev to speak directly to the separatists.

    Putin also reiterated Russia's demand that Kiev end what the Kremlin calls a "punitive operation" against the separatists and pull back its troops, suggesting the pro-Western government is to blame for the violence.

    (Additional reporting by Adrian Croft, Writing by Steve Gutterman, Editing by Timothy Heritage)
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    Post  arpakola Mon May 19, 2014 3:23 pm

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #4 - Page 19 0_b69c0_65808e96_XL
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #4 - Page 19 0_b69c5_78dece40_XL
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #4 - Page 19 0_b69c6_4c9a5d90_XL


    The Situation in the Ukraine. #4 - Page 19 0_b69e7_8eadc8d3_XL
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    Post  arpakola Mon May 19, 2014 3:48 pm


    happy on their way to IMF ..

    http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=219062&d=1400504858
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    Post  Hannibal Barca Mon May 19, 2014 4:26 pm

    Slow plan that is although with solid fundamentals.
    I don't believe in slow plans. Toο much unknown parameters in between.
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #4 - Page 19 Empty Odessa fire victims died from chloroform vapors — senior Ukrainian investigato

    Post  arpakola Mon May 19, 2014 5:37 pm

    Odessa fire victims died from chloroform vapors — senior Ukrainian investigator
    http://en.itar-tass.com/world/732210
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    Post  Vann7 Mon May 19, 2014 8:27 pm

    arpakola wrote:Odessa fire victims died from chloroform vapors — senior Ukrainian investigator
    http://en.itar-tass.com/world/732210

    Wow.. that doesn't look good.. if that what i think..
    Looks like a pure crime very well planned and the fire was a cover from the incident ,to make it look like
    an aciddent . And choloroform unless im mistaking is something you don't make in your garage mixing liquid bleach with
    other cleaners. Looks like a professional job.
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    Post  Airbornewolf Mon May 19, 2014 8:59 pm

    Vann7 wrote:
    arpakola wrote:Odessa fire victims died from chloroform vapors — senior Ukrainian investigator
    http://en.itar-tass.com/world/732210

    Wow.. that doesn't look good.. if that what i think..
    Looks like a pure crime very well planned and the fire was a cover from the incident ,to make it look like
    an aciddent .  And choloroform unless im mistaking is something you don't make in your garage mixing liquid bleach with
    other cleaners.  Looks like a professional job.

    im of opinion it does not matter much if it was a proffesional job or not. those people still died on a terrible way, i doubt anyway about any effectiveness of Chlorofohm with windows smashed and the fire drawing air into itself and burning it. and if indeed chemicals where used what did it matter?. that Nazi scum where still outside waiting to shoot or club them to death if they made it out the building.

    ive heard stories of people in fires that almost escaped a burning building, but either got lost in the smoke and just fell unconsious by the fire gasses themselves. and in Odessa, beaten to death, burned to death, executed after jumping from a burning building or chemical attack. all options make my skin crawl of this sickening brutal inhumane savagery. i have no other description for what happened in Odessa.

    wishing death to an organisation with opposite views is often an shallow reaction, but when even pregnant women are strangled to death in Odessa with the others that died brutally then Right sector, Svoboda and Kiev's regime should all face execution one way or another. this horrific happening of events matches that of world war 2 and should receive a bullet in the brain while its manifesting itself.
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    Post  Regular Tue May 20, 2014 9:31 am

    There were no pregnant women there. The woman in question had her stomach bloated. How she died is another question.
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    Post  Vann7 Tue May 20, 2014 9:48 am

    New Article by french Journalist Thierry Meyssan ,clearly Illustrate that US and its major NATO Zionist allies
    only interest in Ukraine is to weaken Russia economy as much as possible through mercenaries hostile to Russia
    and hired by them. Recently Lavrov told Victoria nuland was in a meeting in the whitehouse with Right Sector and was asking
    for explanations..  Here the report shows a US and Major allies coordinated the unification of forces of Nazis and Muslin Radicals tatars
    in Ukraine to fight Russia. And That some Extremist who were fighting in Syria and killing civilians where transported by Turkey secret services to Kiev to help in the overthrow of Yakunoych and now used to fight against Pro Federalization forces in eastern Ukraine.

    http://www.voltairenet.org/article183864.html

    US Neocons interest in Muslins jihadist and Nazis in Europe to promote them ,to welcome them and finance them ,is just NATO secret armies ,recruited to fight against Russia (or its allies) by proxy in future revolutions that are also staged by them..
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    Post  arpakola Tue May 20, 2014 10:29 am

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #4 - Page 19 1416575

    ======================================


    In Odessa, the authorities banned Russian flags and people began to use flags of Slovenia.
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #4 - Page 19 Empty pictures from Donetsk taken in 1962

    Post  arpakola Tue May 20, 2014 1:52 pm

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #4 - Page 19 23

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #4 - Page 19 1

    pictures from Donetsk taken in 1962

    more pics here>> http://englishrussia.com/2014/05/19/donetsk-ukraine-1962/
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Tue May 20, 2014 7:37 pm

    The U.S. Congress Russian missiles aimed at destroying Satan Ukrainian companies

    In an attempt to destroy the most formidable Russian missiles, the RS-20 Satan, Republicans in U.S. Congress are willing to demand that the Ukrainian company that developed ceases to cooperate with Russia, ending its existence.

    The chairman of the Armed Services Committee of the House of Representatives, Republican Mike Rogers, is willing to submit to Congress an amendment to the proposed U.S. military spending, which would force the country's president to "negotiate with the Government of Ukraine to end the long-standing cooperation between Kiev and Moscow in the maintenance of intercontinental ballistic missiles, "writes the American website The Daily Beast . these missiles, known in NATO as RS-20 Satan (they are listed in START) treaty and called on Russia R-36М Voevoda , are by far the most powerful Russian missiles in terms of range and payload, so they are operated today by the Force Strategic Missile country. In 1991 , the year when the USSR disintegrated, Ukraine inherited from the Soviet Union a powerful military industry, including the production and technology of missiles and rockets. And a true jewel of this crown was the Design Bureau Yuzhnoye Yanguel, headquartered in Dnepropetrovsk, an important factory ICBMs. Till the fearsome Voevoda is not completely replaced by the new Russian missiles Topol, Yars and other, the experts of this company performed its monitoring and extending its useful life, this being the only work that remains today. In other words, congressional Republicans are willing to demand that the U.S. Government pressure on Ukraine to 'sacrifice' one of his companies with valuable not only specialists but also dangerous for the simple reason that they are carrying nuclear ballistic missile technology. Their production stopped long ago, but the documentation on this gun is still in the company of Dnepropetrovsk, as well as other documentation intercontinental missile: Molodets the RT-23 (SS-24 Scalpel, as designated NATO), designed for installation in trains. Recall that a program of strategic missile systems SS-24 Scalpel type is already underway in China . In an interview in February the Russian newspaper "Nezavisimaya Gazeta", the former chief of staff of Russia's Strategic Missile Troop Viktor Yesin suggested that the change of power in Ukraine was not going to destroy this cooperation with the Ukrainian companies in this sector, but even if that happened, Russia would be able to keep afloat its missiles Voevoda. If the bill they want to promote approving the Republicans, Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel should within 30 days submit to Congress a report on how it intends to reach U.S. these goals, remember the article in The Daily Beast.

    Complete text: http://actualidad.rt.com/actualidad/view/128677-congreso-misiles-rusos-satan?utm_source=browser&utm_medium=aplication_chrome&utm_campaign=chrome

    This is the most convincing evidence that the Pentagon's whole purpose in Ukraine was to give them an advantage in Thermonuclear first strike, if this goes through than it's clear cut act of war for a potential nuclear strike and warrants a immediate establishment of a no-fly zone to seize facilities. No amount of sanctions avoidance is worth being turned in to a super-heated irradiated pile of ash and rubble! Now I was reluctant to support an invasion of Ukraine but now if this goes through it's time to start threatening to pull out of every nuclear convention and go on the offensive!


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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #4 - Page 19 Empty The Situation in the Ukraine.

    Post  AirCargo Tue May 20, 2014 7:55 pm

    New York Times-Europe

    Ukraine Tycoon: Separatists Are Wrecking the East


    By THE ASSOCIATED PRESSMAY 20, 2014, 9:49 A.M. E.D.T.


    SLOVYANSK, Ukraine — Pro-Russia separatists fighting government troops faced a surge of local anger Tuesday and a new challenge from the country's richest man, who demanded an end to their rebellion.

    Metals tycoon Rinat Akhmetov, riding a wave of public dismay with the fighting, issued a strong call against the mutiny in the east, which he described as a "fight against the citizens of our region" that has devastated Ukraine's industrial heartland.

    "Is looting in cities and taking peaceful citizens hostage a fight for the happiness of our region? No, it is not!" Akhmetov said in a video statement.

    The tycoon vowed to challenge the insurgents who declared independence last week in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions, an area of 6.5 million people.

    "No one will frighten us, including those calling themselves a Donetsk People's Republic," he said.

    Akhmetov had initially taken a noncommittal stance as the mutiny engulfed the east, drawing criticism from the authorities in Kiev. But last week, his company organized citizen patrols of steelworkers who worked alongside police in Mariupol to improve security. The move forced insurgents to vacate the government buildings they had seized in the key Black Sea port.

    The tycoon urged all workers in eastern Ukraine to hold peaceful protests at their companies by blowing sirens Tuesday "in support of peace and against bloodshed."

    It was unclear if his call had a broad following.

    Interior Minister Arsen Avakov quickly hailed Akhmetov's move, saying on Facebook that "the people's power and energy will sweep the terrorist scum away better than any counterterrorist operation."

    One rebel leader in Donetsk, Denis Pushilin, retaliated Tuesday by threatening to nationalize Akhmetov's assets over his refusal to pay taxes to the Donetsk People's Republic.

    Russia has scathingly criticized Ukraine's interim authorities — who came to power in February after a pro-Russian president fled — for using the military against the rebellion. Ukraine is holding a presidential election on Sunday, which the government in Kiev hopes will unite the country behind a new leader.

    On Tuesday, the Ukrainian parliament adopted a "memorandum on mutual understanding and peace" that calls for moves to decentralize power and guarantees the status of the Russian language in Ukraine. Both issues are at the heart of the rebellion in the east, where native Russian speakers dominate.

    Separatists exchanged fire again Tuesday with government forces on the outskirts of Slovyansk — the epicenter of the rebellion against the government — but this time anger at the fighting appeared to be growing.

    Yekaterina Len, a 61-year-old resident whose house was hit by a mortar shell, burst into tears as she looked at the wreckage. She survived the shelling by spending the night with neighbors.

    Some residents said many houses had been hit as rebels shoot at government troops and draw retaliatory fire.

    "They must stop with this banditry so that there can be peace!" said resident Lina Sidorenko. "How much longer can this go on? We had a united country and now look what's happened."

    Vyacheslav Ponomaryov, the separatist leader in Slovyansk, heard an earful Tuesday as he met with about 200 residents, who shouted at him to end the hostilities.

    Wearing a pistol on his belt and flanked by a bodyguard toting a Kalashnikov rifle, Ponomaryov yelled back, saying he will compensate those whose houses were damaged.


    "Please, I implore you, do not panic!" he shouted. "If you do, you are playing into the hands of our enemies."

    Russia's Defense Ministry, meanwhile, said its units were dismantling camps along the border with Ukraine and preparing to leave for their home bases.

    A day after President Vladimir Putin issued a pullout order in an apparent bid to ease tensions with the West, the ministry said the army units in the Bryansk, Belgorod and Rostov regions bordering Ukraine were getting ready to leave.

    NATO, which estimates that Russia has 40,000 troops along the border with Ukraine, said it could not yet confirm any change. NATO spokeswoman Oana Lungescu on Tuesday challenged the Russians "to prove that they are doing, what they are saying."

    The Russian Defense Ministry said it would take time for troops to dismantle their camps and load equipment on trucks for a march to railway stations. It didn't say how many troops were being pulled out or how long it would take.

    Putin's order to withdraw troops from areas near the border and his support for Ukraine's presidential vote, which he had previously sought to postpone, appeared to reflect a desire to de-escalate the worst crisis between Russia and the West since the Cold-War era.

    The U.S. and the European Union have imposed travel bans and asset freezes on Putin's inner circle over Russia's annexation of Crimea.

    ___

    Isachenkov reported in Moscow and John-Thor Dahlburg in Brussels contributed to this report.
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    Post  Intrigado Tue May 20, 2014 9:53 pm

    I suppose it was a bad idea to call it a "People's Republic". All the Central and East European countries have been at one time a "People's Republic" and the mere idea is likely to send shivers on anyone's spine. Ahmetov knows what happened to those labeled as being "bourgeois" under such regimes. Of course he's afraid that he may lose his wealth and his business.
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    Post  Vann7 Wed May 21, 2014 12:43 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    This is the most convincing evidence that the Pentagon's whole purpose in Ukraine was to give them an advantage in Thermonuclear first strike, if this goes through than it's clear cut act of war for a potential nuclear strike and warrants a immediate establishment of a no-fly zone to seize facilities. No amount of sanctions avoidance is worth being turned in to a super-heated irradiated pile of ash and rubble! Now I was reluctant to support an invasion of Ukraine but now if this goes through it's time to start threatening to pull out of every nuclear convention and go on the offensive!

    I think i read somewhere Russia was replacing the SATAN missiles with more modern ones.. but in any case ,Russia will have no problem
    to replace the components that Ukrainian companies produce. THe missile is not done in Ukraine ,just some parts of it.. That RUssia can produce on its own land too if they see a need. But now that Ukraine is a puppet state of US , it makes sense for Russia to accelerate and move away from the old design. Im more worried about NATO getting S-300s and BUks missiles than the Satan missile.
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    Post  AlfaT8 Wed May 21, 2014 1:23 am

    Vann7 wrote:
    I think i read somewhere Russia was replacing the SATAN missiles with more modern ones..  but in any case ,Russia will have no problem
    to replace the components that Ukrainian companies produce. THe missile is not done in Ukraine ,just some parts of it.. That RUssia can produce on its own land too if they see a need. But now that Ukraine is a puppet state of US , it makes sense for Russia to accelerate and move away from the old design. I'm more worried about NATO getting S-300s and BUks missiles than the Satan missile.
    Thanks Vann its good to know, but here's another way of looking at it, there still a chance that these companies may have more info about these missiles then just there parts, if that's the case then the U.S isn't trying to neutralize the Satan missile, but to steal as much info about these missiles in order to improve there current Nukes and/or make there own Satan(ish) missiles, cause it's to expensive for them to make new ones from scratch. Suspect 

    What do you guys think?  scratch 
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Wed May 21, 2014 2:42 am

    Femen was involved in the Odessa Massacre, I always knew they were pro-NATO skanks following the same mentally depraved line as Pussy Riot:

    Fake “Feminists” of Femen Participated in the Odessa Massacre

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #4 - Page 19 800_external

    Fake “Feminists” of Femen Participated in the Odessa Massacre
    by Steven Argue

    Femen is known for bold and visually striking topless protests across Europe and North Africa. Often regarded as a feminist organization, the fact that they were started and was run by a man, Victor Svyatski, is less well known. He has recently been ousted from the leadership, but as Femen is his brainchild, he still worth looking at. Also less well known are Femen’s ties to the anti-woman Ukrainian neo-Nazi movement.

    Kitty Green, a former Femen activist, describes Victor Svyatski's as the leader of the group, saying, "Once I was in the inner circle, you can't not know him. He is Femen."

    Victor Svyatski would personally review potential activists to see if they were pretty enough. In addition, Brazilian supporters were denied a franchise under the brand for not having the right weight.

    Kitty Green's description of Victor Svyatski's rule over the group isn't pretty, "He was quite horrible with the girls. He would scream at them and call them bitches.”

    Victor Svyatski explained his male iron fist methods of leadership over the women saying, “These girls are weak.” He says this in the recent film documentary "Ukraine is not a Brothel" which outs him as the leader of the group. He further explains his position:

    “They [the Femen activists] don’t have the strength of character. They don’t even have the desire to be strong. Instead, they show submissiveness, spinelessness, lack of punctuality, and many other factors which prevent them from becoming political activists. These are qualities which it was essential to teach them.”

    This is indeed a curious attitude towards women for the male leader of a supposedly feminist organization. Yet, when one looks at the targets of Femen’s protests, the goals seem to be far more anti-immigrant and anti-Russian than one of fighting for women’s liberation. This includes their participation in the recent Odessa massacre which was a massacre of 116 anti-fascist protesters who stood up for the rights of the oppressed Russian nationality in Ukraine.

    An early campaign of Femen was in Lvov Ukraine against Turkish football fans being able to visit Ukraine. In fact, they claimed that this was a threat to the genetic purity of Ukraine. Similarly, Femen leader Inna Shevchenko recently stated the reasons why the group is coming to the UK, listing:

    “Prostitution, laws about immigration, Islamic extremism in UK will not escape Femen’s naked massacre now. Whether it’s Derby’s Al-madinah school or Buckingham Palace, Femen will always find the way to be where it’s needed.”

    So like many on the far right, Femen’s apparent opposition to Islam playing a role in oppressing women in North Africa and the Middle East is actually part of a wider campaign against an entire group of peoples, men and women, as they try to immigrate. A reality usually ignored by this ideology is that these people are trying to immigrate from the repression, exploitation, poverty, sexist oppression, and wars largely imposed on the regions of their homelands by U.S. and European imperialism. This is U.S. and European imperialism in league with regional capitalists, dictators, and religious extremists. Immigrants flee the poverty imposed by imperialism. They also flee the Islamists the U.S. placed in power in Libya and Afghanistan by giving heavy backing to armed religious fanatics. Today the U.S. is also backing similar groups in Syria. Likewise, the U.S. also gives major support to the religious fanatics in power in Saudi Arabia, the most repressive and anti-woman government in the world.

    Femen did recruit one woman from an Islamic country. This was a 19 year-old Tunisian named Amina Sboui (who was active under the alias Amina Tyler). She was threatened with being stoned to death for her bold topless acts and did spend four months in prison. Upon her release from prison, however, Amina Sboui quit the group, saying, “I do not want my name to be associated with an Islamophobic organization.” She was also concerned about the source of the group’s funding, saying:

    “I don’t know how the movement is financed. I asked (Femen leader Inna Shevchenko) several times, but I didn’t get a clear answer. I don’t want to be in a movement supported by suspect money. What if it is financed by Israel? I want to know.”

    Some funding sources for the group have been revealed, including the wealthy American capitalist Jed Sunden, who also founded the Kiev Post. The Kiev Post is a terrible news source that has backed U.S. imperialist intervention in Ukraine and the U.S. backed junta that came to power in the February 22nd coup. Other sources of funding for the group have also been revealed, but because the group has no transparency in funding, no complete public listing exists. There is, however, no question that the group is well funded. A Ukrainian journalist who infiltrated the group in 2012 reported on air that that group members were paid a salary of US $1,000 a month. In addition, each Parisian operation costs at least US $1,300 per woman with paid expenses including airplane tickets, hotel rooms, taxis, and food.

    There is no question that large amounts of American money have been pumped into Ukrainian non-governmental organizations to carry out the U.S. sponsored coups in Ukraine that occurred in 2014 and in 2004. Hundreds of millions of dollars were poured into the country through groups like the National Endowment for Democracy (NED), Open Society Institute (OSI), International Republican Institute (IRI), and the Freedom House. Major backers included MoveOn.org sponsor and American multi-billionaire, George Soros. In addition, Victoria Nuland, speaking for the Obama administration, bragged that the U.S. has spent five billion dollars supposedly “promoting democracy” in Ukraine. The term "democracy" is U.S. imperialist double speak for overthrowing elected governments. And like the Femen activists, the U.S. backed Maidan rioters who overthrew the elected government of Ukraine also received regular payment for protesting. Femen was also among those who supported the Maidan
    protests, the February coup, the murderous neo-Nazi attack in Odessa, and Femen also has ties to the neo-Nazi Svoboda Party that came to power with two other right wing parties in the February coup.

    Femen and Their Support For Mysogynistic Neo-Nazi Extremists

    In 2011 Femen leaders Inna Shevchenko, Sasha Shevchenko, and Victor Svyatski can be seen at a small picket against Belarus. Flying over their heads is the red and black checkered flag of UNA-UNSO, a far right paramilitary group that merged with the neo-Nazis of Right Sector during the Maidan riots. Standing right next to Inna Shevchenko and Sasha Shevchenko is one of their Femen comrades holding a banner that is clearly marked with the logo and name of the neo-Nazi Svoboda party. The Svoboda banner reads, "Long live independent Belarus. Freedom for Ukraine", "No to red terror". Of course, these are absurd slogans for Svoboda, a neo-Nazi group that calls for executing Ukrainian Russian intellectuals without trial and endorses Nazi collaborator and mass murderer Stepan Bandera as their hero. As the Femen held Svoboda banner suggests, another campaign of Femen has been against the deformed workers state of Belarus which has avoided many economic problems found in Ukraine by continuing to maintain a planned socialist economy since the days of the Soviet Union.

    The neo-Nazis of Svoboda, besides having total hatred for Ukraine’s Jews and ethnic Russians, also hate women. This was made clear when, Oleksandr Sych, as a neo-Nazi Svoboda MP in the Ukrainian parliament, introduced a bill that would have banned abortion in April 2013. Currently in Ukraine abortion is legal on demand in the first twelve weeks of pregnancy. The bill introduced by Svoboda would have outlawed abortion except in rare cases like rape. When a Svoboda representative in parliament was asked what kind of proof a woman would have to show to prove rape, he reflected Svoboda’s deep seated misogyny by answering:

    “I do not work in the law enforcement and do not know what a woman can or cannot prove… But first of all, [she] should lead such a lifestyle as to not be exposed to the risk of rape. In particular, [she should not be] drinking alcohol beverages in a questionable company.”

    This is pure misogyny that infringes on the rights of women to control their bodies and their lives and blames the victim in cases of rape.

    Likewise, Adolf Hitler opposed women’s reproductive freedom. The Nazis increased the penalty for abortion when they first came to power in 1933. In 1943, the Nazis took this a step further, making the performance of an abortion on an "Aryan" woman punishable by execution.

    Obama claims to be pro-choice. Yet, in the United States he repeatedly renews the Hyde Amendment which bans public funding of abortions for poor women in the United States. Likewise, in Ukraine he backs neo-Nazis who seek to ban abortion. Similarly, the fake feminist of Femen protest for the right to abortion yet didn't protest against the Svoboda bill and have now helped bring these neo-Nazis to power through their support to the Maidan movement.

    With the February coup, Svoboda has been given the positions of Prime Minister for Economic Affairs (Oleksandr Sych), Education Minister (Serhiy Kvit), Ecology Minister (Andriy Makhnyk), Agriculture Minister (Ihor Shvaiko), and Prosecutor-General of Ukraine (Oleh Makhnitsky). In addition, a cofounder of Svoboda, Andriy Parubiy, has also been given the portfolio of Secretary of National Security and Defense. Make no mistake, this is a fascist given a position of command in war that the capitalist state of Ukraine and its fascist thugs are now waging against the working class, leftists, women, Jews, and national minorities of Ukraine. Femen, by participating in the May 2nd Odessa massacre, is on the front lines of that war, and fighting on the wrong side. Where it counts in the world fight against fascism, Femen is supporting the fascists. Meanwhile, in western Europe, as if simply to confuse, Femen is staging hypocritical anti-fascist protests in places like Paris.

    The subjugation of women has long been a key component of U.S. backed imperialist forces and remains the case today from the Islamists the U.S. supports in Syria to the fascists it supports in Ukraine. This is because the forces willing to align themselves with U.S. subjugation and exploitation tend to be rabid ultra-religious and anti-socialist types who have deeply engrained anti-woman hatreds.
    Besides Femen support for the neo-Nazis of Svoboda, Femen also officially endorsed the three party coalition that led the Maidan movement. Those three parties included the neo-Nazi Svoboda Party, Batkivshchyna (Fatherland Party), and UDAR. All three were united in supporting the IMF austerity demanded by their imperialist sponsors while the democratically elected government of Ukraine refused. As a result of that Maidan movement coming to power in February, the neo-Nazis of Svoboda are now part of the junta that runs Ukraine. Solutions to Euro-fascism and sexism will be found in the hard struggles of the world proletarian and socialist movements against capitalism, imperialism, sexism, and fascism, not in the absurdly contradictory actions of Femen and the coups sponsored by U.S. imperialism.

    http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2014/05/19/18755970.php
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    Post  Vann7 Wed May 21, 2014 4:36 am

    AlfaT8 wrote: there still a chance that these companies may have more info about these missiles then just there parts, if that's the case then the U.S isn't trying to neutralize the Satan missile, but to steal as much info about these missiles in order to improve there current Nukes and/or make there own Satan(ish) missiles, cause it's to expensive for them to make new ones from scratch. Suspect 

    What do you guys think?  scratch 


    Indeed you have a good point there..
    Thats exactly what they want.. to make a law to justify they taking the design and the hows to make the Satan Missile ,
    and even if possible work with them in US ,to produce the missiles and later test their defenses against them. Indeed there is
    a problem for Russia nation security since they have many SATAN missiles still in service and that they plan to continue using until 2022. US Knowing how the engine/motor works and its heat signature will allow its interceptors to differentiate between the missile and decoys.
    Which is the major pain for any defense.So Russia should start replacing the engine in the short time and creating a quick easy replace version of the missile.  What is good however is that Russia already is working in a Next generation Satan missile.


    Satan SS-18 (RS-20B Voyevoda) missile is an old ICBM from the 1970s. there will be a state of the art ICBM called [ Sarmat ]  and Russia estimate will be ready for 2018. So the new Satan (Sarmat) ICBM will have technology and features more than 50 years advanced. Such lapse of time for technology is an eternity . considering we didn't have Internet or digital computers 50 years ago.. Smile  Imagine the huge improvements it could have today.

    http://www.voanews.com/content/reu-russia-plans-new-icbm-to-replace-cold-war-satan-missile/1812053.html

    In the end ,this missiles goal to scare and nothing else. They are the heavier Nukes that Russia have that can be launched without aid from a plane and from big distances. Still in case they not used ,their Topols ,Bulavas ,Yars and stilettos are more modern and in small  groups  they can achieve the same destructive power of the Satan.

    When it comes to femen ,is an experiment ,their goal is Rusophobia ,not anti Islam. I have yet to see them burning the Quran .
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Wed May 21, 2014 7:30 am

    Vann7 wrote:
    AlfaT8 wrote: there still a chance that these companies may have more info about these missiles then just there parts, if that's the case then the U.S isn't trying to neutralize the Satan missile, but to steal as much info about these missiles in order to improve there current Nukes and/or make there own Satan(ish) missiles, cause it's to expensive for them to make new ones from scratch. Suspect 

    What do you guys think?  scratch 


    Indeed you have a good point there..
    Thats exactly what they want.. to make a law to justify they taking the design and the hows to make the Satan Missile ,
    and even if possible work with them in US ,to produce the missiles and later test their defenses against them. Indeed there is
    a problem for Russia nation security since they have many SATAN missiles still in service and that they plan to continue using until 2022. US Knowing how the engine/motor works and its heat signature will allow its interceptors to differentiate between the missile and decoys.
    Which is the major pain for any defense.So Russia should start replacing the engine in the short time and creating a quick easy replace version of the missile.  What is good however is that Russia already is working in a Next generation Satan missile.


    Satan SS-18 (RS-20B Voyevoda) missile is an old ICBM from the 1970s. there will be a state of the art ICBM called [ Sarmat ]  and Russia estimate will be ready for 2018. So the new Satan (Sarmat) ICBM will have technology and features more than 50 years advanced. Such lapse of time for technology is an eternity . considering we didn't have Internet or digital computers 50 years ago.. Smile  Imagine the huge improvements it could have today.

    http://www.voanews.com/content/reu-russia-plans-new-icbm-to-replace-cold-war-satan-missile/1812053.html

    In the end ,this missiles goal to scare and nothing else. They are the heavier Nukes that Russia have that can be launched without aid from a plane and from big distances. Still in case they not used ,their Topols ,Bulavas ,Yars and stilettos are more modern and in small  groups  they can achieve the same destructive power of the Satan.

    When it comes to femen ,is an experiment ,their goal is Rusophobia ,not anti Islam. I have yet to see them burning the Quran .

    Try not to nit-pick the details, look at the greater picture...the fact that they're trying to meddle in Russia's nuclear potential is grounds to retake the East because all that moral high ground goes out the window when the Neo-Cons are chomping at the bit to get first strike nuclear advantage to cause megadeath scenarios in Russia. It means that 40 million Russian deaths in WW1 and WW2 to help the Western Powers were all for nothing, because they want to cause 10's-of-millions more deaths. It proves that broken promise of expanding to the East of Europe, and ABM bases were all directing towards Russia, and all the capitulations, all the sacrifices and all the kowtowing from Gorbachev and Yeltsin were for nothing.  It means the INF treaty is nothing more than giving U.S. NATO allies such as Britain and France a pass for having short, and intermediate range theater nuke domination in Europe while Russia is left high and dry. It means that the pathetic "Megatons-for-Megawatts" program where Russia sells it's highly enriched uranium at significantly lower than market prices (Yeltsin loved the idea of Russia being swindled out of it's money) were for nothing outside of Russia being cheated out of it's money and having a weaker nuclear potential in the process.

    When the Strangeloves in the Pentagon want to restrict Russia's nuclear potential it's a national security issue of the highest order, if the opposite where true the U.S. State, Defense departments would freak out...so why should Russia kowtow and sacrifice anymore than the countless times that they already have in the past 20 years? How about Russia gives a stern warning of threatening to pull out of every nuclear treaty simultaneously to show them that they mean business, no more capitulations from the Russian side for now on, because it's gotten them virtually nothing in return outside of empty promises and a weaker nation state.

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