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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

    BlackArrow
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    Post  BlackArrow Fri May 02, 2014 9:25 pm

    macedonian wrote:
    You were wondering who was killed? Well, keep wondering because the BBC isn't reporting it!
    Goebels would be proud.

    What, you think the BBC should know the names of everyone who died in the fire in Odessa?
    The BBC are good, but they are not that good...
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    Firebird


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    Post  Firebird Fri May 02, 2014 9:28 pm

    Hopefully we can wake up tomorrow and Lvov will resemble 1946 Dresden...

    (With any pro Russians having left the city beforehand).

    If history has ever said anything in the Ukraine, in Europe and anywhere else, its you DON'T NEGOTIATE WITH NAZIS, neo or original.

    You only harm yourself. The Right Sector is "kill others or die yourself". Geneva was NEVER gonna work.
    macedonian
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    Post  macedonian Fri May 02, 2014 9:33 pm

    BlackArrow wrote:
    macedonian wrote:
    You were wondering who was killed? Well, keep wondering because the BBC isn't reporting it!
    Goebels would be proud.

    What, you think the BBC should know the names of everyone who died in the fire in Odessa?
    The BBC are good, but they are not that good...

    I'm not in the mood for your BS now.
    Stop playing naive here!
    Were they on the proUkrainian side they would've certainly reported it, and you know it!

    But hey, what goes around - comes around, right?
    Keep that in mind.
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    Post  BlackArrow Fri May 02, 2014 9:39 pm

    macedonian wrote:
    BlackArrow wrote:
    macedonian wrote:
    You were wondering who was killed? Well, keep wondering because the BBC isn't reporting it!
    Goebels would be proud.

    What, you think the BBC should know the names of everyone who died in the fire in Odessa?
    The BBC are good, but they are not that good...

    I'm not in the mood for your BS now.
    Stop playing naive here!
    Were they on the proUkrainian side they would've certainly reported it, and you know it!

    But hey, what goes around - comes around, right?
    Keep that in mind.

    Are you in Odessa at this moment, did you see the fire? You don't what happened. All you know is what other people decide what you should see and read on the media and internet - don't be so naive.
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    Post  Hannibal Barca Fri May 02, 2014 9:48 pm

    This is ridiculous! Goes precisely the way Yugoslavia went. Russia must act decisively NOW!
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    Post  Airbornewolf Fri May 02, 2014 9:51 pm

    http://rt.com/news/156480-odessa-fire-protesters-dead/

    BlackArrow
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    Post  BlackArrow Fri May 02, 2014 9:54 pm

    London Guardian reporting 38 dead in Odessa:

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/02/ukraine-dead-odessa-building-fire

    I am watching the scenes in Odessa on CNN this moment - man, it's a mess...


    Last edited by BlackArrow on Fri May 02, 2014 9:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
    macedonian
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    Post  macedonian Fri May 02, 2014 9:55 pm

    BlackArrow wrote:Are you in Odessa at this moment, did you see the fire? You don't what happened. All you know is what other people decide what you should see and read on the media and internet - don't be so naive.

    I watched the whole thing live on a stream!
    I know what I saw, and it was absolutely bloody disgusting.
    I've heard the crowd cheer and laugh as they watched people hanging from windows trying to escape the fire.
    They were saying: "Jump Bitch"! and similar...
    And I watched it on a proUkrainian, as well as a proRussian stream.
    They showed absolutely the same thing.

    It was not only a bad thing for the subhumans that did it, nor only for Ukraine itself...humanity lost a lot today.
    And to add insult to injury (or should I say: Death?!) BBC is whitewashing the facts.

    Had you followed my posts here more carefully, you'd know that I always try to keep a healthy realism.
    I know all sides use propaganda, the media today is merely a propaganda instrument.
    But this is way out of line here.

    So, yeah - screw the biased slime that is the BBC and the drivel that they deliver...
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    Post  BlackArrow Fri May 02, 2014 9:57 pm

    Well keep away from the BBC then, if that's how you feel.
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    Post  As Sa'iqa Fri May 02, 2014 10:00 pm

    More reports coming - supposedly 5 people were killed where "army" (no info what it was) attacked a barricade near Kramatorsk. Some time later there was an ambush on "soldiers" - 2 more dead.


    Last edited by As Sa'iqa on Fri May 02, 2014 10:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  Vann7 Fri May 02, 2014 10:00 pm

    38 pro Russians killed when NATO maidans that came from Kiev ,torch the building they were occupying.  And very few Pro Russian protesters to counter them.. Police did nothing to save them.. Pro federalization were busy doing more important things like ,watching TV. The lack of Pro Russian Participation on a daily basics is whats is literary killing their revolution. A city with 1-2 milion citizens should have no problem to get 5,000 activist every day non stop at the very minimum. Defending their zone from any Neo NAzi comming from Odessa to their territory. Since its very clear that police no longer can help them. Either for incompetence or because they aligned with kiev.

    At the same time the European Union is saying is "concerned" for the events happening in Ukraine and saying that the Pro Russian protesters should stop doing "illegal things" and leave the buildings and end their protest. What a joke..  
    When Neo Nazis occupy buildings in Kiev is was democratic and legal.. but when pro Russians do the same everywhere else ,then they suddenly terrorist and have to stop.. Laughing 

    This is why Russia should give up with the European Union a colony of US.. and move all their business to the emerging economies like Asia and south america. Only nations in the Euro that Russia should continue relations are the usual nations that always are friendly with Russia.. ie.. Italy ,Greece,Serbia..perhaps bulgaria? and neutral countries not part of the EU.


    Last edited by Vann7 on Fri May 02, 2014 10:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
    macedonian
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    Post  macedonian Fri May 02, 2014 10:02 pm

    BlackArrow wrote:Well keep away from the BBC then, if that's how you feel.
    Doesn't matter what western media you read, it all seems to be propaganda.
    You've mentioned the Guardian, right?
    Well, check out who made their report. It's three journalists from London.
    Kinda strange, since they had their own man on the ground IN FRONT OF THE BUILDING AT THE TIME THAT THE EVENTS UNFOLDED.
    Problem is, his reports are too realistic for the Guardian to relay.

    Have a look at his twitter account:
    Howard Amos
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    Post  BlackArrow Fri May 02, 2014 10:10 pm

    It's Howard Amos's name on top of the Guardian article.
    There is nothing wrong with the Guardian article, it mentioned more or less what happened - there was a confrontation between pro and anti Moscow supporters, a lot of pro-Russians died in a fire.
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Fri May 02, 2014 10:18 pm

    BlackArrow wrote:
    macedonian wrote:
    You were wondering who was killed? Well, keep wondering because the BBC isn't reporting it!
    Goebels would be proud.

    What, you think the BBC should know the names of everyone who died in the fire in Odessa?
    The BBC are good, but they are not that good...

    The BBC good? Are we talking about the same BBC that protected pedophile Jimmy Savile for all these years?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2221613/Jimmy-Savile-BBC-faces-allegations-censored-emails-12-victims-abused-DJ-head-court.html


    Last edited by magnumcromagnon on Fri May 02, 2014 10:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
    macedonian
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    Post  macedonian Fri May 02, 2014 10:19 pm

    BlackArrow wrote:It's Howard Amos's name on top of the Guardian article.
    There is nothing wrong with the Guardian article, it mentioned more or less what happened - there was a confrontation between pro and anti Moscow supporters, a lot of pro-Russians died in a fire.

    You're right, it is now. Previously it was
    The Guardian wrote:Tom McCarthy and Alan Yuhas in New York and Matthew Weaver and Mark Tran in London

    But even so, the "more or less" part and all those shades of grey is where the real propaganda lies.
    Nevermind, I'm still in rage over what I saw today live. Terrible thing, and I was in such a good mood today.

    But, such is life.
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    Post  macedonian Fri May 02, 2014 10:23 pm

    Back to news:

    A lot of Twitter rumors about possible/ongoing attacks in Kramatorsk and Slavyansk. (this from Russian and Western journos there).
    Things just don't seem to be looking up at the moment.

    -----
    Edit

    Stay classy Carl Bildt

    -----

    Something definitely going on in Kramatorsk. Reports from the city center of ambulances heard.
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    Post  Vann7 Fri May 02, 2014 10:50 pm

    BlackArrow wrote:It's Howard Amos's name on top of the Guardian article.
    There is nothing wrong with the Guardian article, it mentioned more or less what happened - there was a confrontation between pro and anti Moscow supporters, a lot of pro-Russians died in a fire.

    yes ..it was divine fire from heaven right?  
    How credible any media can be when it fails to mention that Pro Euro nazis killed them ,when torched the building after knowing they were occupying it ? Not only that ,the hand pocket of them that managed to jump 3 floors and survive ,where beaten later by NATO "freedom lovers" until no longer they move.. In any civilized country in the world ,those people will be declared as Criminals and sent to Jail.. that is a crime in any nation standar. But since they are Pro Euro ,the western media covers them and defend their actions as "freedom of expression" and fighting for "Democracy" but when there is talks about Pro Russia protesters.. refusing to recognize the dictators NATO placed in Power ,then they called terrorist /separatist by western media  and say how they should stop doing "illegal things " . It only makes you want to vomit ,how shamelessly the EU in just a matter of weeks totally reverse their definitions , it was legal in Kiev to occupy buildings and demand a new government.. but now is illegal the easter regions do the same and demand autonomy and democracy restored. Still today ,many buildings are occupied in Kiev.. including the Federal Court.. oh but since they are Pro NATO. then is legal. LOL  Pure comedy Laughing 
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    Post  BlackArrow Fri May 02, 2014 11:01 pm

    Vann7 wrote:
    yes ..it was divine fire from heaven right?  
    How credible any media can be when it fails to mention that Pro Euro nazis killed them ,when torched the building after knowing they were occupying it ? Not only that ,the hand pocket of them that managed to jump 3 floors and survive ,where beaten later by NATO "freedom lovers" until no longer they move.. In any civilized country in the world ,those people will be declared as Criminals and sent to Jail.. that is a crime in any nation standar. But since they are Pro Euro ,the western media covers them and defend their actions as "freedom of expression" and fighting for "Democracy" but when there is talks about Pro Russia protesters.. refusing to recognize the dictators NATO placed in Power ,then they called terrorist /separatist by western media  and say how they should stop doing "illegal things " . It only makes you want to vomit ,how shamelessly the EU in just a matter of weeks totally reverse their definitions , it was legal in Kiev to occupy buildings and demand a new government.. but now is illegal the easter regions do the same and demand autonomy and democracy restored. Still today ,many buildings are occupied in Kiev.. including the Federal Court.. oh but since they are Pro NATO. then is legal. LOL  Pure comedy Laughing 

    What a complete rant...

    BTW, nobody is trying to defend the deaths, or defend the actions of those killed them.
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    Post  Flyingdutchman Fri May 02, 2014 11:06 pm

    BlackArrow wrote:
    Vann7 wrote:
    yes ..it was divine fire from heaven right?  
    How credible any media can be when it fails to mention that Pro Euro nazis killed them ,when torched the building after knowing they were occupying it ? Not only that ,the hand pocket of them that managed to jump 3 floors and survive ,where beaten later by NATO "freedom lovers" until no longer they move.. In any civilized country in the world ,those people will be declared as Criminals and sent to Jail.. that is a crime in any nation standar. But since they are Pro Euro ,the western media covers them and defend their actions as "freedom of expression" and fighting for "Democracy" but when there is talks about Pro Russia protesters.. refusing to recognize the dictators NATO placed in Power ,then they called terrorist /separatist by western media  and say how they should stop doing "illegal things " . It only makes you want to vomit ,how shamelessly the EU in just a matter of weeks totally reverse their definitions , it was legal in Kiev to occupy buildings and demand a new government.. but now is illegal the easter regions do the same and demand autonomy and democracy restored. Still today ,many buildings are occupied in Kiev.. including the Federal Court.. oh but since they are Pro NATO. then is legal. LOL  Pure comedy Laughing 

    What a complete rant...

    BTW, nobody is trying to defend the deaths, or defend the actions of those killed them.


    It is a complete fu***** mess right there!!

    Macedonian i fully agree with you about the EU there a bunch of idiots and when the pro russians occupy buildings its illegal and when pro western people do it it is legal EU talks bullshit right now!!
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    Post  navyfield Fri May 02, 2014 11:16 pm

    navyfield wrote:
    KomissarBojanchev wrote:The problem is that antiNATO paramilitary isn't "armed to the teeth". Russian intervention would be diplomatic suicide, as I said they should instead give them just massive equipment aide. It would becompletely enough against the galician dogs.
    Exaclty. Russia and germany are playing very cool.
    Theres a reason american slut ambassador: fck eu comment was taped and released.
    Germany was in the bandwagon and had its candidate there...thinking russia would back down like the first time and more tolerate if it was EU led action like in lybia...
    But Russians were ready and strong enough this time.
    Now Germany backed down and is very silent.
    USA wants to escalate ,wants EU to slap sanctions on Russia , and vice versa would happen, that would weaken them both.germany would be biggest loser.
    Britain and France are with USA  like in ww2 ,to twarth germanys control over EU ,even if theyll suffer...
    Im sure soldiers in the east can hold on against novice western hunta ,no need for armed intervention and escalations , referendums->joins russia= mission accomplished . russia

    like i was saying before, theres a reason cia is pushing hard exactly at this day, and now you can take a guess where merkel is today -in USA...

    If Putin decides for action ,he will sure wait for merkel to come back from america ,he doesnt want to give coup de gras to Usa for a joint declaration with germany, and make position of merkel unbearable during talks.
    Germany wanted to talk about free trade with usa , but Usa wants to talk about ukraine crisis and increased defence spending which Germans dont want for economic reasons. Usa want bloodshed for its interests ...


    Last edited by navyfield on Fri May 02, 2014 11:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
    macedonian
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    Post  macedonian Fri May 02, 2014 11:16 pm

    @ FlyingDutchman: glad we share that opinion. Actually I'd be glad if we can all agree on what's true, and see through the propaganda, no matter from which side it comes.

    On with the news. Still bad.
    I was right about Kramatorsk and Slavyansk.
    RT is reporting it now:

    RT.com wrote:Dozens reported injured or killed in Kramatorsk as Ukraine army launches assault

    Ukraine’s National Guard is reportedly storming the eastern town of Kramatorsk. Meanwhile, the army has resumed its special operation in Slavyansk, where two soldiers have been killed.

    “The assault is starting now,” a Kramatorsk self-defense activist has told RIA Novosti by phone. Another activist told the news agency that the National Guard opened fire on self-defense forces.

    Dozens have been killed or injured in Kramatorsk, a doctor told RIA Novosti. The medic added that the fighting has now stopped and all of those injured have been taken to hospitals in Kramatorsk and Slavyansk. At least two died on the way to the hospital, she said.

    More @ RT
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    Post  navyfield Fri May 02, 2014 11:24 pm

    relax ,putin will do it ,if you belive in symbolism and resurgent ortodox faith perhaps he will enter ukraine maybe exactly on st. george day-coming soon on may the 6th.
    Theres a reason Russia has that lizzard slayer on its flag  Wink 
    http://xlerma.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/ruflag.jpg
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    Post  Hannibal Barca Fri May 02, 2014 11:28 pm

    Just send in the Sukhois and beat the crap out of Kiev. Expel all the German-Polish minority from Ukraine and execute the government for crimes against humanity.
    Fear is the most lasting emotion. If you can't make them love you make them obey you. Fuck west. USA tyranny vanishes, European puppets will follow the strongest master like always do.
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    Post  Intrigado Fri May 02, 2014 11:34 pm

    Unfortunately, it looks like there's already a formed mindset on each side. Whatever happens, each party is going to blame the other. Such pity for the people who died there. It really shouldn't have happened this.
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    Post  Vann7 Fri May 02, 2014 11:39 pm


    Best report about the 38 people killed must see..

    http://rt.com/news/156480-odessa-fire-protesters-dead/

    Basically according to Police ,Right sector tried to take by force the Pro Russian zones , they apparently were more in numbers and managed to push for a while the Pro Russian activist to the building. and is there that they start to torch the building with they inside.. 38 killed mostly of the fire smoke. And apparently later ,its looks like they managed to push back with perhaps reinforcements the Neo nazis of the place.
    None will have died if there was enough people on the streets to counter the neo nazi mob.. because police so far do nothing.. and will not be surprised they come from kiev too.

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