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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:05 am

    Vann7 wrote:

    Interesting information..   according to Russian diplomats close to lavrov , John Brennan the CIA director was in Ukraine
    to try to get information of 20 missing in action americans special forces of te company black water.  Very Happy

    http://www.voltairenet.org/article183269.html


    Looks like the video of american captured was true.and i don't think they will be released any time soon.. LOL
    RUssia can use them to negotiate and or even use them when you have enough number as a media weapon
    to discredit Obama..interference in Ukraine. if i were to guess ,they will be in Siberia now.. in a secret place.. Laughing 

    Blackwater hmmmm, paid provocateurs with the purpose of sowing violence and discourse with the advantage that Kiev putschists do not have to acknowledge their presence in Eastern Ukraine me thinks.
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    Post  arpakola Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:25 am

    Separatists supported by armed men captured & disarmed 6BMD airborne combat vehicles in Kramatorsk, took them outside town. Aperantly they are driving from Kramatorsk to Slaviansk.
    https://twitter.com/Ranyah/status/456330435581059072
    One of the six tanks of the Ukranian army that I just saw in #Kramatorsk that switched sides. Now w Russian flag. pic.twitter.com/Ig0qJQ5jWM
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #3 - Page 12 BlU2HQlCIAEjDjB


    Kramatorsk, today. .. Crowd blocked 1 tank and 5 APCs on the street. Soldiers stated they are not going to shoot
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #3 - Page 12 Attachment

    http://www.regnum.ru/news/polit/1791270.html#ixzz2yyqearGZ

    --------------------------------------------------


    Alpha Commander addresses Russian SOF
    His arguing against a conflict with Russia , mostly adressing Russian people talking about the danger of nuclear power-plants being damaged and gas pipes
    ----------------------------------------

    Ukrainian deputy and presidential candidate Lyashko ( openly gay ). Announcing that Ukrainian army have taken complete control of Slavyansk (in reality, they didn't even try to enter the town). Chanting to kill all separatists.
    As we see, he is quite popular among Maidan crowd.


    --------------------------------------------

    Maidan VS maidan...

    ------------------------------------------


    Last edited by arpakola on Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:57 am; edited 1 time in total
    macedonian
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    Post  macedonian Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:52 am

    Rumors of Ukrainian soldiers switching sides...

     russia 

    It's twitter, so...
    But anyway:

    Link1
    Link2
    arpakola
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    Post  arpakola Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:10 am


    TODAY Kramatorsk



    The Situation in the Ukraine. #3 - Page 12 Attachment

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #3 - Page 12 Doniesk+f+minister

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #3 - Page 12 Er0bBs0cuhQ


    Last edited by arpakola on Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:04 am; edited 5 times in total
    Airbornewolf
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    Post  Airbornewolf Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:14 am

    macedonian wrote:Rumors of Ukrainian soldiers switching sides...

     russia 

    It's twitter, so...
    But anyway:

    Link1
    Link2

    good to see there is still common sense under the Ukrainian Millitary.

    also shows the slipping control of Kiev on its armed forces in General.
    macedonian
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    Post  macedonian Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:28 am

    Airbornewolf wrote:
    macedonian wrote:Rumors of Ukrainian soldiers switching sides...

     russia 

    It's twitter, so...
    But anyway:

    Link1
    Link2

    good to see there is still common sense under the Ukrainian Millitary.

    also shows the slipping control of Kiev on its armed forces in General.

    Yes, very true.


    Here's a pic
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    Post  Firebird Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:28 am

    Very worrying reports yesterday. THankfully it *seems* things weren't as bad as we'd feared.
    However, heavy vehicles detecting to the Donetsk side is a good side.
    Lets hope common sense prevails over idiocy in the rest of the Ukr military.
     russia  russia  russia
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    Post  arpakola Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:38 am

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #3 - Page 12 Graf11


    an other view
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    partizan

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    Post  partizan Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:25 pm

    It's too good to be true...

    Litttle off topic: Looking at the faces of so caled "euro-maidan" represented by Julija Timoshenko and on the other hand, looking at Poklonskaya and Ekaterina Guberneva (correct me if I'm wrong) for normal person it is not too difficult to choose the side... Very Happy 

    Never the less, we have to congratulate both sides in this conflict, both protesters and ukrainian soldiers, on the callmnes they are showing. When I remember events here in former Yugoslavia 25 years ago, I only can regrete why we didn't act more like them... You al know what happened after that...
    Hannibal Barca
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    Post  Hannibal Barca Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:42 pm

    Yes probably the people on charge of handling the situation in Ukraine where up close 25 years ago in Yugoslavia and now use the valuable experience gained there.
    Sometimes age does matter. Let's see how things unfold. Already said that Putin is the greatest Russian leader after Ivan the Terrible. I am confident he will pull this off.
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    Post  Firebird Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:53 pm

    There's some really bizarrre aspects to it all.

    Russia actually wants to foster ties with the EU. But not as the EU's bitch.
    It will take time and thinking to work out how best to  do it.

    The US on the other hand, just wants to cause shit, even war between the EU and the CIS/Russia.
    Not all Americans, but certainly the lunatics that dictate its foreign policy.

    Now the EU has good and bad. Certain politicians see Russia as an extremely valuable partner. But others see the CIS as something to destablise and colonise and abuse. The current EU monkeys chose to put Nazis in charge of the Ukraine. Not exactly a wise move when you are trying to foster friendships.

    Hopefully now, the bulk of a Federal Ukraine's states will become rock solid partners of Russia, infact even part of a "Greater RUssia" either an informal or more formal way.

    Still.. a lot of shit (and shits) to sort 1st!
    George1
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    Post  George1 Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:57 pm

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    Post  partizan Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:13 pm

    Hannibal Barca wrote:Yes probably the people on charge of handling the situation in Ukraine where up close 25 years ago in Yugoslavia and now use the valuable experience gained there.
    Sometimes age does matter. Let's see how things unfold. Already said that Putin is the greatest Russian leader after Ivan the Terrible. I am confident he will pull this off.

    I was thinking the same about Putin but as you say, let's wait couple of days... Wish I was so confidente like you but here in Croatia we have a saying "tko se na mlijeko opeče i na jogurt puše". Maybe someone will translate this for you but basicly is saying that one can not be too careful, or something like that...
    I have a feeling that the "westerners" are acting like a lunatics, totally unpredictible cause they did not expect such turnover in Ukraina. And they are like spoiled children..or like a wounded beast..But not without the means to inflict a sirius harm to Russia or world it self.
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    Post  macedonian Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:34 pm

    Firebird wrote:There's some really bizarrre aspects to it all.

    Russia actually wants to foster ties with the EU. But not as the EU's bitch.
    It will take time and thinking to work out how best to  do it.

    The US on the other hand, just wants to cause shit, even war between the EU and the CIS/Russia.
    Not all Americans, but certainly the lunatics that dictate its foreign policy.

    Now the EU has good and bad. Certain politicians see Russia as an extremely valuable partner. But others see the CIS as something to destablise and colonise and abuse. The current EU monkeys chose to put Nazis in charge of the Ukraine. Not exactly a wise move when you are trying to foster friendships.

    Hopefully now, the bulk of a Federal Ukraine's states will become rock solid partners of Russia, infact even part of a "Greater RUssia" either an informal or more formal way.

    Still.. a lot of shit (and shits) to sort 1st!

    I agree somewhat, but the EU is really America's bitch.
    They'll do ANYTHING, from joining the attack on Afghanistan/Iraq/Libya/Syria/Iran/Serbia...wherever, to sanctioning Russia, to embarrassing themselves for lack of diplomatic etiquette with the Evo Morales' plane incident...
    The Germans were kinda angry that the Americans have spied on them.
    If it was Russia doing the spying - they would certainly be sanctioned...as it is the US...well...they don't mind too much.

    Don't expect anything good to come from the EU. Especially in its relation to Russia.
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    Post  Vann7 Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:57 pm

    Kiev is saying that the Russian raised flags in armored carriers is a trick a tactic.. to bypass all checkpoints..


    The Russian flags on Ukrainian Armored Personnel Carriers (APCs) were a stratagem, Kiev says. According to the acting head of the Batkivshchina Party, Sergey Sobolev, the Ukrainian military raised Russian flags on their vehicles on purpose, to fool the Donetsk region’s self-defense squads and thus be able to get into areas under the control of protesters.

    “Those were our military units using guerilla methods of intervention,” Sobolev said, citing the acting Defense Minister. “Very soon, in two to three hours this maneuver is going to be disclosed and you’ll understand that it was actually a breakthrough, which our units thus carried out.”


    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Wed Apr 16, 2014 2:09 pm

    Apparently 3 BTRs have joined the side of the Slavyansk defenders/DPR forces; they drove to the centre of Slavyansk and took down their Ukrainian flags.
    This is confirmed by a RIA Novosti correspondent there.

    Only strange thing is how they drove into the centre of Slavyansk first. So, someone must have allowed them in and they made their intentions clear in advance, if the story is indeed true

    http://ria.ru/world/20140416/1004139444.html
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    Post  etaepsilonk Wed Apr 16, 2014 2:20 pm

    flamming_python wrote:Apparently 3 BTRs have joined the side of the Slavyansk defenders/DPR forces; they drove to the centre of Slavyansk and took down their Ukrainian flags.
    This is confirmed by a RIA Novosti correspondent there.

    Only strange thing is how they drove into the centre of Slavyansk first. So, someone must have allowed them in and they made their intentions clear in advance, if the story is indeed true

    http://ria.ru/world/20140416/1004139444.html

    Excellent news  Smile 

    If Kiev's junta will continue to suffer such setbacks, soon they'll have no other option but to negotiate a peaceful settlement.
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    Post  flamming_python Wed Apr 16, 2014 2:38 pm

    Interesting site: "Honest Voting"
    http://modsite.by/

    You can choose which region are you from, and if your IP checks out you can vote for whether you want to stay in the Ukraine, enter the RF, have an independent republic or be part of a federative Ukraine

    Here are the results
    http://modsite.by/allresult/

    A majority of all regions are for entrance into Russia, and only a fairly small minority in all regions advocate staying in the Ukraine. Of course, these results are warped and not representative (even more so when all the trolls from Western Ukraine discover this site and connect by proxy over the next 48 hours, etc...), but this isn't the point - which is that you can gauge, with some accuracy - the level of support for staying part of the Ukraine relative from one eastern region to the other.

    So the winners are Lugansk, closely followed by Donetsk with the highest annexation into RF sentiment by a good margin, with all the others hovering around 51-55%
    Donetsk followed by Odessa have the highest support for being independent republics, albeit still single-digit figures; with the rest of the regions being even lower.
    Support for federalization is highest in Nikolayev and Dnepropetrovsk, albeit still unpopular options
    While Kherson & Kharkov are the regions which most want to stay in the Ukraine.

    As you can see - support for annexation into Russia is much higher than for federalization or independence, although again - the thing is that typically most moderate people won't care enough to vote or follow this whole situation on the internet
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    Post  flamming_python Wed Apr 16, 2014 2:45 pm

    Apparently Turchinov fired the head of the MVD VV (Internal Forces) today

    If he was wise - he would have fired Saakashvilli as military & propaganda adviser instead  Very Happy 
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    Post  flamming_python Wed Apr 16, 2014 2:54 pm

    Some Euromaidan Ukrs are pissed off that they donated money to a such an army, that ends up defecting to the enemy later Very Happy
    While others are calling for the Ukrainian army to start shooting in these towns & villages, etc...

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #3 - Page 12 Ukrarm10
    Hannibal Barca
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    Post  Hannibal Barca Wed Apr 16, 2014 3:33 pm

    Russia seem to outbribe the bribers  jocolor 
    arpakola
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    Post  arpakola Wed Apr 16, 2014 3:47 pm

    flamming_python wrote:Interesting site: "Honest Voting"
    http://modsite.by/

    You can choose which region are you from, and if your IP checks out you can vote for whether you want to stay in the Ukraine, enter the RF, have an independent republic or be part of a federative Ukraine

    Here are the results
    http://modsite.by/allresult/

    A majority of all regions are for entrance into Russia, and only a fairly small minority in all regions advocate staying in the Ukraine. Of course, these results are warped and not representative (even more so when all the trolls from Western Ukraine discover this site and connect by proxy over the next 48 hours, etc...), but this isn't the point - which is that you can gauge, with some accuracy - the level of support for staying part of the Ukraine relative from one eastern region to the other.

    So the winners are Lugansk, closely followed by Donetsk with the highest annexation into RF sentiment by a good margin, with all the others hovering around 51-55%
    Donetsk followed by Odessa have the highest support for being independent republics, albeit still single-digit figures; with the rest of the regions being even lower.
    Support for federalization is highest in Nikolayev and Dnepropetrovsk, albeit still unpopular options
    While Kherson & Kharkov are the regions which most want to stay in the Ukraine.

    As you can see - support for annexation into Russia is much higher than for federalization or independence, although again - the thing is that typically most moderate people won't care enough to vote or follow this whole situation on the internet

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #3 - Page 12 Rus+vote

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #3 - Page 12 Rus+vote2
    arpakola
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    Post  arpakola Wed Apr 16, 2014 3:52 pm

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #3 - Page 12 5073481cb61298e95415c8b6bb7f1aad
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    Post  Firebird Wed Apr 16, 2014 3:57 pm

    I think Federation makes more sense than a unitary Ukraine state for everyone. Just my feeling.

    If the East becomes part of Russia, the question remains, what happens with the Centre? And what happens with the Western ie mountainous NATO buffer zone?

    Perhaps Kiev could become a "City Republic"?

    And this is the harder part, but some areas could have dual status. Enhanced links with both the EU AND CIS.

    Perhaps some parts could be in the Ukrainian Federation BUT also part of Russia too.
    That might sound strange to some. Bu Greenland and Denmark are ONE country. However, only Denmark is in the EU. Likewise you have British bits that are for many purposes part of Britain, but again outside the EU. (Basically colonies or whatever, like offshore banking centres eg the Isle of Man).
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    Post  arpakola Wed Apr 16, 2014 4:12 pm



    testing the new toys.. (Thanks KIEV.. now we have something to play with..)

    -------------------------------------------------

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