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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:34 am

    Regular wrote:Oh and healthy diet called Holodomor would be nice too Very Happy

    How far we've come as a society - when such a diet will actually help a great deal many people in Western consumer society, than kill them Smile
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    Post  GarryB Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:38 am

    As Sa'iqa wrote:I am an atheist and not a Catholic. Pro-Christian in general.
    Russia, however, is not a western country. The West has come through the Renaissance and the Enlightenment. Russia is a weird mix of Byzantine absolutist tradition mixed with the political culture of the Golden Horde. One historian (I can't recall his name now) has classified Russia as a Turanic country - effectively an antithesis of civilization.

    EDIT: Ok, I got him

    hahaha... I am from the western world and I know there is still east and west europe... west being first world and east being 2nd world... which equates to being white but not quite white enough...

    I too am impressed with western civilisation and if they actually practised what they preached I think the anti western feeling around the world would disappear.

    Sadly the west has no morals or standards that it wont break but is happy to judge others by those very same standards and morals.

    Kosovo was interfered with because there was an attempt at ethnic cleansing. The final result of all the death machines and expensive hardware was an ethnic cleansing... but nobody in the west noticed.

    the west cares about serbian oppression of the Kosovo Albanians... the people of Guam however who were moved to make way for a military base have no rights... let alone the native Americans... of course natives were just called Indians everywhere...

    Truth Justice and the American way... yet their methods and abuse of democratic principles they are no better than those they oppose and demonise... the elected government of the Ukraine did not sign an agreement with the EU so it is violently toppled and that is OK because clearly the west controls them.

    The people of Crimea are given the opportunity to vote in a referendum to decide their future and it is all Putin Annexing the Crimea.

    I love the sales pitch, but the implementation is rubbish... no thank you.

    Personally I blame the western media... owned by big business it seems to me that its job has changed and now it is just another political tool to justify the western actions and its position... read my sig.

    Are you really suggesting to wage war against everyone who has a different opinion, even non-combattants??

    Hilarious... the justification of strategic bombing is total war... there is no such thing as non combatants... Germans in Germany were part of the German war machine that was acting against the UK and US... firebombing women and children and old men was justified by the west... just as rounding up women and children in the Boer war and putting them in concentration camps was justified... by the civilised west.

    The Civilised west that demands freedom of speech, but listens to every word you say via electronic means... try to find one place in public in London with no CCD TV camera coverage... and I will say wait a week they will put cameras up soon...
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    Post  etaepsilonk Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:38 am

    macedonian wrote:
    etaepsilonk wrote:Are you really suggesting to wage war against everyone who has a different opinion, even non-combattants??

    I think it would be a warcrime.

    You BETTER stop putting words in my mouth little man!
    If you have a comprehension deficiency, perhaps it would be best to read more and post less?
    I'm about to lose my temper with this idiocy of yours.


    Hilarious. I'm not putting ANYTHING in your goddamned mouth.

    You yourself had written:
    "If you're looking to win - you strike your enemy deep inside his ranks where he doesn't feel vulnerable...you create havoc, so that he cannot attack you where you're weak...

    And you suggest to do all that on THE ENEMY, which according to you is "People in Ukraine who are brainwashed into believing western propaganda".

    That's NOT my inventions, but your own posts, buddy. So why don't you stop playing a drama queen, and stand up for your words, like every mature person does?

    macedonian
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    Post  macedonian Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:42 am

    etaepsilonk wrote:
    macedonian wrote:
    etaepsilonk wrote:Are you really suggesting to wage war against everyone who has a different opinion, even non-combattants??

    I think it would be a warcrime.

    You BETTER stop putting words in my mouth little man!
    If you have a comprehension deficiency, perhaps it would be best to read more and post less?
    I'm about to lose my temper with this idiocy of yours.


    Hilarious. I'm not putting ANYTHING in your goddamned mouth.

    You yourself had written:
    "If you're looking to win - you strike your enemy deep inside his ranks where he doesn't feel vulnerable...you create havoc, so that he cannot attack you where you're weak...

    And you suggest to do all that on THE ENEMY, which according to you is "People in Ukraine who are brainwashed into believing western propaganda".

    That's NOT my inventions, but your own posts, buddy. So why don't you stop playing a drama queen, and stand up for your words, like every mature person does?


    Yes, sorry. I forgot that even the less intelligent can make an account on forums and post their shite.
    Sorry about that mate, now please BUGGER OFF!
    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:44 am

    Cyberspec wrote:Looks like the situation at Kramatorsk has been exaggerated a fair bit by the various initial reports. Apparently there wasn't any battle, no casualties and currently it's a standoff between the protesters surrounding the airfield and Ukr. security forces inside.

    Video of the SBU general Krutov (in charge of the operation) being roughed up by protesters at Kramatorsk


    Yeah you can say that again.

    I've even seen KavkazCentre style reports of 1 Ukr helicopter downed, 1 helicopter taken out of action and a fighter jet too  lol1 
    no j/k

    In actuality there was no battle, Ukrainian air force showed up mainly for the cameras and fired some dummy rockets or something, flares too (which were mistaken for rockets by locals).

    There were some shots fired when the locals wanted to take over the local airfield on, it was guarded by a few Ukrainian servicemen who fired warning shots, the locals left. Some time later literally the whole town showed up, a lot of swearing and an officer presiding over the 'counter-terrorism op' was nearly lynched; but in the end no-one got hurt.

    When the locals left after the botched takeover attempt - the Ukrainian guards were reinforced by helicopter. So that explains the story about that.

    The Ukr media did get good footage too; will be used on the home front, so the government can be portrayed as some other than the powerless piece of crap that it is, and avoid Pravyj Sektor and other hardliners curb-stomping them for not taking decisive action.
    I suppose it's better to be a powerless piece of crap of a government, even an illegitimate one - than a psycho one, legitimate or not.
    And for that I'm glad, so far. Makes me optimistic that reasonable people in Kiev can be found, and the south-east will gain their freedom, or their autonomy, or whatever it is they wish.

    So far anyway. Things could very well escelate further over the next few days, in fact they certainly will - and the last thing anyone needs is hardliners, and any criminal military orders.


    Last edited by flamming_python on Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:46 am; edited 2 times in total
    Cyberspec
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    Post  Cyberspec Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:44 am

    Unconfirmed rumours that civilian and military Police have established checkpoints at major crossroads in Russia's Rostov region and reports of large military convoys on the move
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    Post  Werewolf Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:47 am

    etaepsilonk wrote:
    macedonian wrote:
    etaepsilonk wrote:Are you really suggesting to wage war against everyone who has a different opinion, even non-combattants??

    I think it would be a warcrime.

    You BETTER stop putting words in my mouth little man!
    If you have a comprehension deficiency, perhaps it would be best to read more and post less?
    I'm about to lose my temper with this idiocy of yours.


    Hilarious. I'm not putting ANYTHING in your goddamned mouth.

    You yourself had written:
    "If you're looking to win - you strike your enemy deep inside his ranks where he doesn't feel vulnerable...you create havoc, so that he cannot attack you where you're weak...

    And you suggest to do all that on THE ENEMY, which according to you is "People in Ukraine who are brainwashed into believing western propaganda".

    That's NOT my inventions, but your own posts, buddy. So why don't you stop playing a drama queen, and stand up for your words, like every mature person does?


    If your IQ is to low to understand a rather simple sentence and its meaning you should stop posting at all about what others have written in this forum. Macedonian is right, you have put words in his mouth and completley to stupid to understand the meaning an adult should be able to understand, either your education level is beyond reperation or you are just to young to understand the content.

    Keep quite and don't ridicule yourself even more.
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    Post  macedonian Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:48 am

    Cyberspec wrote:Unconfirmed rumours that civilian and military Police have established checkpoints at major crossroads in Russia's Rostov region and reports of large military convoys on the move

    Good God!
    I hope it's false rumors.
    Regular
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    Post  Regular Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:52 am

    macedonian wrote:
    Regular wrote:There is enough hate for Russians in Western Ukraine, listen to their slogans, listen how they call Russians.
    Why even try?
    Only way to win their hearts and minds is by hanging them on feet and by bleeding their hearts dry. To win their minds You could use nagant right at the back of the skull. Done and tested in good old days. Oh and healthy diet called Holodomor would be nice too Very Happy

    I'll take that as joke.
    But I'm not laughing.
    Sorry I couldn't give You back the favour. You made me cringe with Hearts and Minds™️ comment. I see no way Russia could score PR points in Western Ukraine. How do You imagine Russia changing their anti-russian stance?
    They are completely brainwashed. Their hohol breed is either victimized or overglorified. Full of themselves and full of hate. Their politicians and even simple folk people are OK with threatening Russian lives. To be Ukrainian now is not an option. Their all nation was discredited. Everyone who supports whole Ukraine should beaten till they become Schumachers for life.
    I had enough of Ukrainian propaganda on my TV today. Talking about scores of separatists killed and all! I almost got a fight with one pidor with O for a surname who tried to tell me about russian propaganda, when I don't watch Russian tv at all!
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    Post  etaepsilonk Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:56 am

    macedonian wrote:
    Yes, sorry. I forgot that even the less intelligent can make an account on forums and post their shite.
    Sorry about that mate, now please BUGGER OFF!

    Oh, I will. I'd just like to say that I just gave you an excellent real-life advice. Whether you took it or even noticed it is not my bussiness, of course, but considering your subsequent insults, I assume that you haven't. It wouldn't take much intelligence to do that in a four sentence post, you know, even less than it takes to make a forum account  Wink




    To werewolf:
    "If your IQ is to low to understand a rather simple sentence and its meaning you should stop posting at all about what others have written in this forum. Macedonian is right, you have put words in his mouth and completley to stupid to understand the meaning an adult should be able to understand, either your education level is beyond reperation or you are just to young to understand the content.
    Keep quite and don't ridicule yourself even more."

    Look, I have no intention for pissing matches, long ones at least  Smile 
    And I understand very well that such "fights" are, in fact, pointless and irrelevant.
    However, your attempts to shame me, or question my IQ, are irrelevant to me just as much.
    I KNOW WHAT I JUST READ. And it just happens that I find such thoughts unnacceptable. Whether you share the same judgement, it's not my bussiness, and it's not my intention to convince you otherwise, if you don't want to. And YOU shouldn't too.


    Last edited by etaepsilonk on Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:12 am; edited 2 times in total
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    Post  macedonian Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:59 am

    Regular wrote:
    macedonian wrote:
    Regular wrote:There is enough hate for Russians in Western Ukraine, listen to their slogans, listen how they call Russians.
    Why even try?
    Only way to win their hearts and minds is by hanging them on feet and by bleeding their hearts dry. To win their minds You could use nagant right at the back of the skull. Done and tested in good old days. Oh and healthy diet called Holodomor would be nice too Very Happy

    I'll take that as joke.
    But I'm not laughing.
    Sorry I couldn't give You back the favour. You made me cringe with Hearts and Minds™️ comment. I see no way Russia could score PR points in Western Ukraine. How do You imagine Russia changing their anti-russian stance?
    They are completely brainwashed. Their hohol breed is either victimized or overglorified. Full of themselves and full of hate. Their politicians and even simple folk people are OK with threatening Russian lives. To be Ukrainian now is not an option. Their all nation was discredited. Everyone who supports whole Ukraine should beaten till they become Schumachers for life.
    I had enough of Ukrainian propaganda on my TV today. Talking about scores of separatists killed and all! I almost got a fight with one pidor with O for a surname who tried to tell me about russian propaganda, when I don't watch Russian tv at all!

    Oh, brainwashed people tend to sober up at some point.
    Once they realize who's their REAL enemy - they suddenly become quiet...then they see the truth for what it is...

    No amount of propaganda can change the Truth in the long run.
    Rest assured.
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    Post  Vann7 Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:14 am

    Now im more convinced in Russia..what they need to do..

    1)Organize civilians in the thousands to surround army convoys and not let them enter with their trucks..
      and have many civilians (old people no bothering to die..LOL) with flags near every armed checkpoint. that way if civilians killed and check point bombed from distance ,special forces retaliate with weapons.


    2)Commando Guerrillas.. arm with Kornets and manpads ,special forces already retired from Russian army.. people in the 60s.
    well trainned soldiers with Kornets and manpads could defeat any army with tanks and airforce.
    while at the same time threatening to invade if Ukraine continue crack down on civilians..

    3) if all else fails ,and civilians killed. Russia will need to invade and Push the Ukrainian army away and create a buffer demilitarized zone.

    Having the support of Shagai Corportation Organization could be a huge difference here.. That will be a massive message to NATO that if they interfere they will have to fight not only with Russia but  China ,India ,Belarus , Kasakistan and other former soviet republics..
    Just 500 soldiers from each ally will be enough,Russia will put the rest. Russia needs to start looking for an alliance ..even if the entire alliance only represent in total 10 thousand soldiers. with a hundreds of T-72 tanks and and airforce support.  THe goal should be only to move away the Ukrainian army of the eastern side and southern side  of the country and NOT to take kiev.. And say that they will leave as soon Kiev start a referendum in all cities and allow them to have their own leaders and security with the guarantee that they will not take any territory or Ukraine and that will every city have its own government and security.


    Last edited by Vann7 on Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:18 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  Regular Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:18 am

    macedonian wrote:

    Oh, brainwashed people tend to sober up at some point.
    Once they realize who's their REAL enemy - they suddenly become quiet...then they see the truth for what it is...

    No amount of propaganda can change the Truth in the long run.
    Rest assured.
    There is no universal truth. It doesn't exists in this world. Everyone sees it from their perspective. 
    I've noticed that I have enough Russian blood to be infuriated by current Ukrainian rhetorics. Be it their politics or their people. Every curse they say about Russians goes to my mother and my Russian side of family. All those threats about how Russians will be shot, knifed and lynched etc etc. I simply can't stand it. Their news coverage about anti-terrorist operation just killed them as people. They are all dead to me.
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    Post  macedonian Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:25 am

    Again: there's NO POINT in a shooting war.
    There should not be dead people (at least not from Russia pro-Russian Ukrainians) actions.
    Hearts and minds (however funny that seems now).

    And maybe (somehow  Very Happy ) tell people in west Ukraine how harsh the warm hug of the IMF is...
    Let them know that their pay/pension will be cut in half (if not more!). Make them realize that they'll have to pay twice as much for food.
    Give them an idea of what this new 'Democratic Ukraine' would look like.
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    Post  Regular Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:35 am

    It's too late now! They will blame Russians for that as well.
    Be it high gas prices or restriction of export.
    When in doubt who to blame- blame Russians. 
    I just hope my childhood friends will be OK.
    Time to go to vkontakte and try to remember names  pirat
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    Post  macedonian Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:40 am

    Regular wrote:It's too late now! They will blame Russians for that as well.
    Be it high gas prices or restriction of export.
    When in doubt who to blame- blame Russians. 
    I just hope my childhood friends will be OK.
    Time to go to vkontakte and try to remember names  pirat

    That's what I meant when I said somehow (: explain to them what the situation is.
    I know many will understand. Especially older folk.


    I hope your friends will be fine too. I don't think it will escalate that far...at least it doesn't seem so at the moment.

    (or it's perhaps my wishful thinking?)
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    Post  Regular Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:49 am

    Thanks man. I'll go to sleep now. I better turn off my internet, it's not like I can do anything. I'll turn off my Sat too. Too much crap on media these days. I'm becoming easy to provoke.
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    Post  macedonian Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:55 am

    Regular wrote:Thanks man. I'll go to sleep now. I better turn off my internet, it's not like I can do anything. I'll turn off my Sat too. Too much crap on media these days. I'm becoming easy to provoke.

    I understand fully. I've been provoked many times myself.
    I'll be off too. Hope tomorrow brings about better news (none that we can read in western media  Very Happy ).

    I'm hoping, and am (almost) sure that Russia will win this.
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Wed Apr 16, 2014 5:55 am

    Mad Evil Russians, despite the collapse of the USSR they found a way to move the continental Russian land mass right next to NATO bases in secret, without anyone noticing:

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #3 - Page 11 BkZWRj4CAAAYJs_
    Stealthflanker
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    Post  Stealthflanker Wed Apr 16, 2014 6:21 am

    1 Ukrainian flanker down ?!

    http://theaviationist.com/2014/04/15/su-27-reportedly-down/

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    Post  Vann7 Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:30 am

    Stealthflanker wrote:1 Ukrainian flanker down ?!

    http://theaviationist.com/2014/04/15/su-27-reportedly-down/


    That is Syria videos..read the info. Not ukraine..
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    Post  Stealthflanker Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:35 am

    Vann7 wrote:
    That is Syria videos..read the info. Not ukraine..

    I know that the author use footage of various sources including Syria.

    The article said however it's the Ukrainian flanker that went down, i posted it for cross checking.

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    Post  macedonian Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:13 am

    That footage is fake.

    Any significant changes in the past 8hrs?
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    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:20 am

    Vann7 wrote:
    Stealthflanker wrote:1 Ukrainian flanker down ?!

    http://theaviationist.com/2014/04/15/su-27-reportedly-down/


    That is Syria videos..read the info. Not ukraine..

    Ignore the Syria clip; the Syria clip is about a helicopter going down.

    The Ukraine story is about a Su-27, also published by ITAR-TASS.

    "flamming_python" has already commented on this story though.
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    Post  Vann7 Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:46 am



    Interesting information..   according to Russian diplomats close to lavrov , John Brennan the CIA director was in Ukraine
    to try to get information of 20 missing in action americans special forces of te company black water.  Very Happy

    http://www.voltairenet.org/article183269.html


    Looks like the video of american captured was true.and i don't think they will be released any time soon.. LOL
    RUssia can use them to negotiate and or even use them when you have enough number as a media weapon
    to discredit Obama..interference in Ukraine. if i were to guess ,they will be in Siberia now.. in a secret place.. Laughing 

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