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    Project 21631: Buyan-M missile ship

    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:31 pm

    mnztr wrote:These are really nice ships, versatile, and incredibly deadly for their size.

    Best of all they started as rock bottom river gunboats before some madlad decided to strap some cruise missiles on them and created entirely new naval doctrine in the process Cool

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    calripson


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    Post  calripson Wed Nov 17, 2021 5:30 am

    Russia should keep the production line at Zelenodolsk open. They have done a good job of delivering the ships on time and on budget.
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    mnztr


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    Post  mnztr Wed Nov 17, 2021 3:37 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    mnztr wrote:These are really nice ships, versatile, and incredibly deadly for their size.

    Best of all they started as rock bottom river gunboats before some madlad decided to strap some cruise missiles on them and created entirely new naval doctrine in the process  Cool


    Yes imagine, a ship less then 1K tons can strike 2500 km away. That is insane.

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    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Wed Nov 17, 2021 5:55 pm

    mnztr wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    mnztr wrote:These are really nice ships, versatile, and incredibly deadly for their size.

    Best of all they started as rock bottom river gunboats before some madlad decided to strap some cruise missiles on them and created entirely new naval doctrine in the process  Cool


    Yes imagine, a ship less then 1K tons can strike 2500 km away. That is insane.

    Its only the gun on the front that gives it a sense of scale, how small it is.

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    medo
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    Post  medo Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:18 pm

    mnztr wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    mnztr wrote:These are really nice ships, versatile, and incredibly deadly for their size.

    Best of all they started as rock bottom river gunboats before some madlad decided to strap some cruise missiles on them and created entirely new naval doctrine in the process  Cool


    Yes imagine, a ship less then 1K tons can strike 2500 km away. That is insane.

    And those cruise missiles also carry nuclear warheads...
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    Post  JohninMK Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:40 pm

    medo wrote:
    And those cruise missiles also carry nuclear warheads...

    I think you meant to say "And those cruise missiles COULD carry nuclear warheads"

    But I think it unlikely, too high a risk.

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    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:56 pm


    Any Russian or American missile larger than Harpoon/Uran can carry nuclear warhead

    They achieved insane levels of miniaturisation long ago, others are nowhere near that, they need pickup truck to carry what Russians and American can fit in a duffel bag   

    But yeah, they don't carry them here, too risky

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    Post  hoom Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:30 am

    Kinda hoping they introduce Zirkon to service with another Caspian -> Al Qaeda & Friends in Syria bang.
    At 1000km range Idlib is out of range but from just off Iran in SW corner (I never saw clear indication of where the original Caspian strike was actually launched from) they could hit most of the area along the North border & there's plenty of Al Qaeda & friends there to be targets.
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    Post  GarryB Fri Nov 19, 2021 3:32 am

    Not worth it... 30 minutes after the impact there will be US special forces combing the area for missile parts and evidence... and for what... a boom that could have been delivered by a Tu-22M3 or Su-24.

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    marcellogo
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    Post  marcellogo Fri Nov 19, 2021 9:29 am

    GarryB wrote:Not worth it... 30 minutes after the impact there will be US special forces combing the area for missile parts and evidence... and for what... a boom that could have been delivered by a Tu-22M3 or Su-24.
    Once scramjet missiles will be acquired in numbers, one can use idlib to dump previous generation ramjet ones in a fast way. Twisted Evil

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    hoom


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    Post  hoom Sat Nov 20, 2021 12:50 am

    30 minutes after the impact there will be US special forces combing the area for missile parts and evidence...
    Good point Embarassed
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    Post  GarryB Sat Nov 20, 2021 5:18 am

    Once scramjet missiles will be acquired in numbers, one can use idlib to dump previous generation ramjet ones in a fast way.

    The amusing thing is that they would be almost as interested in the ramjet ones as the scramjet ones... Twisted Evil

    In the 1990s the Germans and the French created a project to develop and produce a light tactical missile called ANS or something.

    It was going to be an 800kg missile that flew at mach 2.5 to about 90km for destroying radar and ships and was going to use a combined rocket ramjet propulsion system where the solid rocket fuel was located in the core of the ramjet, so on launch the solid rocket fuel burned and accelerated the missile to climb and when it burned out the empty space left behind was the ramjet combustion chamber which then lit up and carried the missile to the target.

    It ended up going nowhere of course even though the Soviets had the Kh-31 a decade before with a launch weight of 600kg and a flight range of 110km and a speed of mach 3 with a combined rocket ramjet engine.

    The American Navy wanted a supersonic low flying missile to test its air defences so it created a competition to get a low flying supersonic anti ship missile hoping the Russians would sell them Moskits or Granits or Vulcans... they offered the MA-31 an early model Kh-31 of average performance... but it was still way better than US competition and won.

    They learned their Phalanxs were useless against sea skimming missiles because of multipath returns from the water so they developed the SEA RAM for CIWS protection.
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    Post  Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:57 pm

    My favorite ships. Cheap, reliable, universally usable, strongly armed.

    I would wish that generation 3 TorM2U gets with 2x8 and AK630 plus 1x8 kalib as before. I do not trust the PantsirM.

    Maybe even stronger drives with more knots and a little more seaworthiness despite the preservation of the Wolga ability.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:08 am

    I do not trust the PantsirM.

    What is wrong with PantsirM?

    For 20% of their loadout they could have the quarter sized missiles for light drones and minor threats like subsonic Harpoons and Tomahawks.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:25 am

    They are always operating off the russian coast. For that matter  they can have even cheaper Sosna-R to deal with such targets.

    But Pantsir has longer range and with 4 such ships you can create a line of air defence of 160km long (4x40km) obliging enemy cruise missiles to go around, reducing their range against ground targets.
    Hole
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    Post  Hole Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:41 pm

    Just another expert who thinks the russian Navy just put something on a ship that was laying around at the harbor without testing it before. Rolling Eyes
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    Post  Big_Gazza Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:22 pm

    ..or who believes the utter BS smears targeting Pantsir as a result of combat losses in the ME or elsewhere.  When low-skill users deploy Pantsir on an individual basis and inadequately supported and provisioned, there will be losses.  Big deal.  Thats war.  

    The only people who really believe that Turkish drones have "proved" that Pantsir is "junk" are all perennial Russophobes who hate Russia cuz she exists....

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:25 pm

    Pantsir destroyed drones, drones destroyed pantsirs... those are not magical system, but human made. They are not perfect and if you don't use them correctly they will suck.

    For the Buyan, they replaced it with Karakurt because its high sea handdling wasn't good.
    medo
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    Post  medo Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:51 pm

    Karakurts are not replacing Buyans. Karakurts are made for high sea operations, while Buyans are sea-river class.

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:12 pm

    medo wrote:Karakurts are not replacing Buyans. Karakurts are made for high sea operations, while Buyans are sea-river class.

    On production lines they are. They are the same type at same price but Karakurt offers more.
    Hole
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    Post  Hole Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:48 pm

    Build by different yards. Huge possibility that more Buyan-M´s will be ordered after the 12th has been delivered.

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    Post  Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:43 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    I do not trust the PantsirM.

    What is wrong with PantsirM?

    For 20% of their loadout they could have the quarter sized missiles for light drones and minor threats like subsonic Harpoons and Tomahawks.

    The experiences in Syria show that only TORM 2 actually acts almost certain and every threat killt. This also has the better radar what I really decisive is for ships.  Better take a little more money in hand but have proper air defense and ship protection.

    Big_Gazza wrote:..or who believes the utter BS smears targeting Pantsir as a result of combat losses in the ME or elsewhere. When low-skill users deploy Pantsir on an individual basis and inadequately supported and provisioned, there will be losses. Big deal. Thats war.

    The only people who really believe that Turkish drones have "proved" that Pantsir is "junk" are all perennial Russophobes who hate Russia cuz she exists....
    Is your horizon so small? It's all about threats like Delia, Spike, Harpon, C-802, etc. and not just about "Turkish drones". This also includes RQ-170 and other. Better radar, better rockets, better protection for the ship.
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:05 pm

    Hole wrote:Build by different yards. Huge possibility that more Buyan-M´s will be ordered after the 12th has been delivered.

    Not likely

    Both have engine production problems

    Plus shipyard that made Buyans landed order for over a dozen logistics ships, they will be busy for a while

    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:11 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Hole wrote:Build by different yards. Huge possibility that more Buyan-M´s will be ordered after the 12th has been delivered.

    Not likely

    Both have engine production problems

    Plus shipyard that made Buyans landed order for over a dozen logistics ships, they will be busy for a while


    Engine production problems? Is this regarding that situation where Zvezda refused to allow others to produce the engine yet they themselves can't deliver on time?

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    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:26 pm


    Yeah, the legendary diesel disaster

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