From recent reports in India , the spares issue of Russian weapons has gone bad and spares takes a long time to come affecting operational capability and uptimes.
The length of negotiations for various programs with India suggests the Indians like to be thorough.
I remember in the 1990s there were various countries that complained about support and spares and it turned out these countries had saved money by buying from former product customers like the air forces of former Soviet Republics that were reducing their force sizes.
When it came time to buy spares however these countries were not interested in selling from their spares pools and so the countries had to go to the original manufacturers to buy spares... and understandably after losing sales to other former Soviet Republics the manufacturers were not interested in bargain prices. Some countries actively sold bogus parts on the black market that led to problems too.
The solution is obvious... buy from a fellow customer if you want to buy cheap, but don't expect the manufacturer to honour spares and support for second hand sales.
Considering India is so keen to be self sufficient I would have thought a primary pillar of self sufficiency is making your own spares.
Get the companies that you deal with to set up support and overhaul facilities along with sales depots. Plan in advance what will be needed and when... and don't negotiate to the last penny. Not only should you have operational spares, you should also have reserve spares you can operate while waiting for more to arrive... in other words have enough spare parts and support equipment and have a spares and support agreement with the company that makes the parts.
If you get stuff cheap from third parties then go to the original maker and get them to check them and overhaul them and then they will likely be happy to support them too.
Having said that companies in Russia seem more interested in selling new products than selling spares and support equipment for existing material.
US is making most of it and many defence deal was signed and will be signed even though US equipment cost a lot.
Which is something I don't really understand. Why not buy the Russian item and spend half the extra money needed to get the US equivelent and use that to pay for a spares pool that will keep you going when there is red tape or problems with support?
Right now money is not a problem so Russia should ask more and provide firm support.
It would be rather better for India if the Russians charged extra and set up spares and support service centres in India.
Suprisingly I do not hear such spares and maintenance issue for Russian equipment in other armies , which would mean they dont exist in the way it exisit in India , It is over blown by Western Lobbies or India could be unique in experience uptimes and spares issue of Russian equipment.
Of course it is emphasised by rivals and for obvious and selfish reasons.
Russia should also sell some arms and equipment to Pakistan as US sells to India and Pakistan , see no reason why russia should not do the same.
Pakistan would not be a huge market for Russian stuff, and the internal problems Russia is having (ie things exploding and people being taken hostage) are largely stirred by the Sunni Muslims which come mainly from Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. I don't think they are in any hurry to encourage them.
Indian navy had been irritated due lack of spare parts for its 'Black panther squadron'(Mig-29variant).
That deal is part of the Gorshkov deal... if they did not include spare parts and support in the deal, or if they didn't allow for a large enough pool of spares in the initial purchase who do you blame?
Though I am fanatic about evergreen Mig-21 its accidents can not be ignored considering fact they were made in India on licence.
Well the fact that they are made in India one assumes spares and support should not be an issue... what was used in the role previously and what was its record like?
The Mig-21 has been successfully used around the world... why would there be more crashes in India? Is it the pilot training? Taking junior pilots too far too fast? Is it the conditions... heat and dust etc?
Like F-16IN, super hornet Mig-35 has air-frame at least decade old. Beside that India already operates Mig-29 class.Indians were trouble in 1999 while using Russian planes in stringer prone Environment for attacking role.
The laws of physics have not changed and aerodynamics have not changed either. The F-22 is not really that much different in basic aerodynamic shape than the Mig-29 despite the age difference. The best solution to Stinger is a targeting pod and expensive guided weapons that can be released above the upper ceiling of Stinger.
The other solution is Manta DIRCM.
Where Mirage's performance was good when LGB modification done with help of Israelite.
The current upgrade for the Indian Mig-29 should allow similar air to ground performance to the M2K.
Life cycle for MMRCA is considered for 40 years.Shortlisted RAFEL is considered as semi-stealth which considered as important feature for next decade.
Was that included in the requirements? If it was then why was the reason for the Mig-35 not being chosen given as lack of stealth rather than diversity?
Russians are very aware of these thing, Even Russian president when arrived India , accepted that they have to compete for arm export.
The Russians are aware India wont just buy any old crap just because Russia makes it.
Their history of joint ventures with India to ensure that India gets what they want and need is proof enough of that.
We are aware of Russian talent and their accessibility to their gadget.Thats why INDIA has participated in FGFA project.But for current requirement Mig 35 can not be best option...If u put the strategic environment in calculation picture will be crystal clear....
I disagree. The Mig-35 can perform any mission a Rafale or Typhoon can perform. The idea that the Euro canards are stealthy and the Mig is not is just rubbish... especially in Asia. Both the Typhoon and Rafale are very expensive for aircraft that are not stealth aircraft and a Rafale dropping laser guided bombs is no better at it than a Mig-35 doing the same thing much cheaper. Further the choice of the Mig-35 offers potential for future upgrades of the existing Mig-29 fleet to include systems and equipment developed for the Mig-35, whereas the Eurocanards are completely new and different from anything India has in service now.
For your supplier comment please consider ongoing Admiral Gorshkov (INS Vikramaditya deal)How much calculation can be wrong..upto 200%.... initially it was around $900 million...and end up at apr $2.4 Billion...Indians never kept this in mind welcome Shows its not just Buyer-seller relation ship ...
The original deal was for 1.4 billion, of which 700 million was for the air component of Mig-29s and Ka-27s and Ka-31s. After looking inside the vessel it was found all the wiring and piping needed replacing and the increase in materials costs led to one increase of 1 billion dollars to a total of $2.4 billion including airwing.
To scratch build a new carrier of equivalent size would cost 2 billion for the ship alone so they are still ahead of the game.
The real problem was that it took the Indian government 10 years to negotiate the contract for this quick fix. The Indians needed a carrier fast and Russia had one that they didn't really want to sell to China. The Indians didn't want them to sell to China either but took a decade of talking to finalise the initial contract.
If it truly was urgent perhaps a 5 year limit on contract negotiations... they could have started work 5 years earlier and it probably would have been completed before material and wage costs increased after 2005. They probably still would have had to have replaced all the wiring and piping, but the materials and wages would have been cheaper and it would be in service now.
If you check the news Indian MoD conducted MRCA competition very transparently.Field Trials were taken for 2 years. And each vendor informed with proper supportive data.
so Mig could have quit competition.But when consider the impact of such move on its penitential customer then millions worth nothing...
So they said at the start that for the purposes of maintaining diversity that Russian products will not be considered and Mig joined the competition anyway?
Do you have proof of that?
There is no doubts Russians are proven very trusted supplier at time of conflict. respekt
but this is not enough considering security challenges before India.
What else is there?
The title of this thread is about India being upset that Russia has cancelled a couple of exercises at the last minute. Do you think Russia should be pleased when India tells them a competition they entered to supply India with a multi role fighter they were never going to win because India thinks it already has too many Russian fighters?
Even this parmeter has been considered in MMRCA, thts why american are also out of race despite heavy lobbing and back stage tactics...
Remember that the Seaking helos India operates also became pretty useless when the UK stopped supplying spares and support after India tested a nuke.
Yet you prefer to consider the Typhoon over the Mig.
France refused to sell you more Mirage 2000s and told you to buy Rafales instead but you refused because they were too expensive... now... the price is higher.
Pakistan should only be sold old Russian stock and money used to modernize Russia's arsenal.
Everyone knows, don't trust Pakistan. Due to Saudi money they've gotten pretty good at playing the game. Saudi and Pakistan are tied at the hip now. Which means they are tied to US-China just as close.
Russia should not expand its sales to Pakistan, but it should look more carefully at other asian countries... particularly in terms of getting rid of obsolete equipment.
It should also look to central and south america for the same thing as their older kit is easier to use and still effective... major purchases could be rewarded with additional sales of the tools and equipment to make their own spares and ammo so they can be self sufficient.