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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #2

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    etaepsilonk


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    Post  etaepsilonk Thu Mar 27, 2014 6:09 pm

    Haha, I was just browsing mp.net's Ukraine thread and stumbled upon this comment on UN voting:
    "Originally Posted by Swag
    Seriously now. Is the russiastronk!1 posse proud of that list ? Just asking."

    It's unfortunate, that I don't have account there, coz I was very tempted to say:
    "Yes, absolutely. Because it clearly shows that Russia can still achieve it's goals, even without having to spend hundreds of billions of USD in maintaining "coalitions of the willing""  Very Happy



    ------------------------------------
    To viktor:
    "Barroso: EU is not ready to offer Ukraine the prospect of membership in the Union"

    Well, it could be that EU leadership knows about the internal opposition to the membership.
    Either that, or my theory about Ukraine's lucrative market is ridiculed  Embarassed




    ------------------
    In other news, looks like the beacons of democracy decided to ignore "open skies" overflights, and calculated Russian presence using "military experts" instead  Laughing 

    Ukraine's official: the border - šimtatūkstantinė kariuomenėRumunijos Russian President : Russia's ambitions Romanian border
    ( 523 )
    BNS , ELTA,
    www.DELFI.lt
    In 2014 . March 27 . 15:16

    Ukraine's official: the border - Nearly 100 thousand Russian army
    ©️ AP / Scanpix

    Nearly 100 thousand . Russian troops concentrated on the borders of Ukraine , said on Thursday the Americans senior Ukrainian defense official , giving much greater than the number of U.S. military experts.

    Almost 100 thousand . troops are stationed in the Ukrainian border ... as well as Kharkov , Donetsk toward " - said the Ukrainian National Security Council Chairman Andriy Parubyjus directly from Kiev online.

    "Russian forces are not only in Crimea , they were spread all along the borders of Ukraine . They are south of the north and east , " - he said.

    After the annexation of the Crimean Peninsula , Russia is trying to incite separatist sentiment and elsewhere in Ukraine , Kiev so worried that you would expect the Russian invasion of the country in the east, explained A.Parubyjus Atlantic Council - a group of experts in Washington .

    According to him, Ukraine is now no doubt that the Russian invasion could begin any day.

    Pentagon officials previously published estimates , the Russian forces to the borders of Ukraine with more than 20 thousand . - And it is airborne , and armored vehicles and OVER 9000!!!! tank units , these forces would be sufficient to occupy the eastern regions of Ukraine .

    Therefore, the U.S. defense experts are skeptical response to A.Parubyjaus mentioned number.

    "It seems that ( they ) too large " - told AFP by one specialist .

    A.Parubyjus noted that the Ukrainian government is supporting Western countries initiated a criminal sanctions against Moscow , and asked that the military partners in public , sent a signal to Moscow for its actions .

    " We are asking our partners to conduct joint military exercises , which " show that cooperation and partnership are still here, " - he said through an interpreter.

    A.Parubyjus claimed that the very need to " visible support of our partners in the visible presence " of the crisis.

    He stressed that the Russian troops stationed in the Crimea were well trained special forces .

    J. Marchuk : coming days - a critical

    Former Ukrainian Minister of Defense and former national security and Defence Council Secretary Yevhen Marchuk said that the next two days in Ukraine will be most critical during the entire history of Independence , published by unian.net .

    Yevgeny Marchuk It told a press conference in the press center of the Ukrainian crisis .

    He stressed that the events to grow toward the second special operation by Russia towards Ukraine phase . The second stage can be much more dangerous than the Crimean stage .

    "Government structures do not belong to the experts who have in-depth knowledge of national and public security defense and security aspect , this time does not doubt that the next two days will be most critical for Ukraine over the period of independence ," - said Mr Marchuk .

    According to him , the military has a very accurate indicator of when to prepare for mass operation , especially offensive that can not be hidden.

    " There are some operations out of their stages, when it is not possible to wait long . It should either cancel or realize , " - he explained inform glavcom.ua .

    J. Marciukas reported currently in Donetsk and around the city observed the so-called tourist civilian clothes and focus their organizational activity .

    "Visible signs of all that may initially be at a massive offensive nature of Russian regular army attack on the territory of Ukraine , which will be launched very deliberately - they have already gained experience in the Crimea - taking all the mistakes ... The majority of people will be organized , who cometh military uniforms , but the majority will be armed with automatic rifles. Well and then - appropriate action , " - said Mr. Marciukas .

    In addition , he said , expert opinion, the Russian intervention in the Crimea could be blocked without firing. "At the moment I can say one thing - the Panel's assessment , intervention in the Crimea could be blocked without mutual shooting, tanks and aircraft", - stressed Marciukas .

    As already reported unian.net , U.S. military intelligence has warned Congress that the likelihood that Russia will invade the East Ukrainian territory is greater than was believed until now.

    American intelligence, Rostov -on-Don , Kursk and Belgorod regions centered on more than 30 thousand . soldiers , most of them - the motorized troops that can be deployed quickly .

    March 24 . Bryansk region in the southwestern part of the Fourth National Guard was observed Kantemirov tank division of the Twelfth regiment of tanks (in Russian elite of the army , regularly participating in Red Prada climbing ) technique .

    The regiment deployed technique Novozibkų - Klimovo area and is expected to be ready to march straight through Chernigov in Ukraine 's capital.

    Romanian President : Russia's ambitions in the Romanian border

    Romanian President Traian Basescusas warned that Moscow's territorial ambitions to achieve the country's eastern border , writes AP.

    According to the president of Russia's foreign policy in recent times has become unpredictable in 2008 . war with Georgia and Ukraine's Crimean Peninsula current annexation no longer be treated as " isolated incidents ."

    Speaking to the Romanian Ministry of Defence officials T. Basescusas warned that Moscow may plan " snap " of the separatist region of Moldova and southern Ukraine, " from Odessa to the Danube .

    Romanian president of Russian influence in the region speak openly at first . In 2005 . He said that Russia in the Black Sea behaves like your lake .

    http://www.delfi.lt/news/daily/world/ukrainos-pareigunas-pasienyje-simtatukstantine-rusijos-kariuomene.d?id=64382890#ixzz2xBcSPLUK
    KomissarBojanchev
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #2 - Page 29 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #2

    Post  KomissarBojanchev Thu Mar 27, 2014 6:53 pm

    TheArmenian wrote:Obtaining the lone Ukrainian frigate would have been nice of course. But there are many valuable ships that Russia got hold of:

    -The Ropucha class landing ship: This one is more valuable than anything else at the moment. This kind of workhorse is doing most of the work in resupplying Syria.
    -The 3 Grisha class corvettes: These are of the later Grisha IV type with the Fregat type radar. They are just as good as the best one the Russians have. These ships are great for patrolling the Black sea.
    -The 2 Natya class minesweepers: They are ocean-going minesweepers and can do a variety of jobs (including mine warfare, patrol, surveillance etc.)
    -The Slavutych command ship: Allegedly it is in good shape.
    -The Donbass tender: Great for supporting subs in the Mediterranean.
    -The Tarantul class missile boat: Unfortunately it is of the older Tarantul II class with the older missiles. But still a great boat for the black Sea.
    -The Zaporojie submarine: You can laugh all you want on this old Foxtrot class boat. But it has recently been overhauled (with Ukrainian money). Sure it does not have the modern fancy stuff, but it can dive and can be a good training unit for the crews of the Kilos that are building. It can also serve as minelayer, surveillance etc.
    -The Polnocny class Landing craft: Again, a valuable asset for short range operations in the area. Does it really have to be new?

    There are also a number of other ships, boats, crafts and tugs that can still do a good job. For most tasks the age is not relevant as long as the boat is in good shape.
    Beleive it or not I actually went on board the mine sweeper cherkassy during a blackseaops exercise near Varna last year. I could hardly see any crewmen there unlike the numrous sailors standing proudly near the neighboring russian ship
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    Post  etaepsilonk Thu Mar 27, 2014 6:58 pm

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:
    Beleive it or not I actually went on board the mine sweeper cherkassy during a blackseaops exercise near Varna last year. I could hardly see any crewmen there unlike the numrous sailors standing proudly near the neighboring russian ship

    Maybe that's there those Ukrainian sailors were?  Wink
    You know, kinda like:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=O2STH60AEn4#t=175
    navyfield
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    Post  navyfield Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:58 pm

    wait so 100 countries voted for a resolution and 99 abstained ,voted no , or didnt show up in the hall...
    USA administration was expecting like about 170 yes-votes...
    its official -this is a diplomatic dissaster for Usa.
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    Post  macedonian Thu Mar 27, 2014 9:11 pm

    navyfield wrote:wait so 100 countries voted for a resolution and 99 abstained ,voted no , or didnt show up in the hall...
    USA administration was expecting like about 170 yes-votes...
    its official -this is a diplomatic dissaster for Usa.
    Only American puppets voted 'Pro'.
    Independent nations voted either 'Con' or abstained.
    Just like the effin' pseudo-Macedonian puppet government did.
    This will change pretty quick though. Mark my words. People here are more and more fed-up by the 'West'
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    Post  Werewolf Thu Mar 27, 2014 9:25 pm

    macedonian wrote:
    navyfield wrote:wait so 100 countries voted for a resolution and 99 abstained ,voted no , or didnt show up in the hall...
    USA administration was expecting like about 170 yes-votes...
    its official -this is a diplomatic dissaster for Usa.
    Only American puppets voted 'Pro'.
    Independent nations voted either 'Con' or abstained.
    Just like the effin' pseudo-Macedonian puppet government did.
    This will change pretty quick though. Mark my words. People here are more and more fed-up by the 'West'

    People who understand global/geopolitical affairs see how many actually voted yes or not.

    Naive people may see actuall 100 countries seperatley voted for yes, while people who understand which countries are souvereign and which are not see only a Slave with a chain around his neck saying the exact same words his slaver tells him out of the backround with a whipe in his hand.

    There are only about 2 yes the rest are just repeating what their slave master tells them.
    All EU countries are run by dictatorship of oligarchs sitting in Brussels which were never elected and give orders to every single EU country and the US with its vassals without any own foreign policy. Over 140 nations are in slavery of the US (US Bases) which have bases their not because this countries like the US, but because the US has significant political influence in their governments.

    Does not matter what UN slaves vote for they have no power here.
    macedonian
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    Post  macedonian Thu Mar 27, 2014 9:35 pm

    Agreed.
    Though that UN Ambassador of ours better not meet me anytime soon...(yes, I know it's not up to him, but...well...I really detest being a puppet to anyone, and I prefer Independence!)
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:06 pm

    Asia will not 'isolate' Russia
    By Pepe Escobar

    Any (bureaucratic) doubts the New Cold War is on have been dispelled by the Group of Seven issuing a pompous, self-described Hague Declaration. Abandon all hope those who expected The Hague to become the seat of a tribunal judging the war crimes of the Cheney regime.

    The G-7 also cancelled its upcoming summer summit in Sochi as a means of "punishing" Moscow over Crimea. As if this carried any practical value. Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov responded with class; if you don't want us, we have better things to do. [1] Everyone knows the G-7 is an innocuous, self-important talk shop. It's in the G-20 - much more representative of the real



    world - where crucial geopolitical and geoeconomic issues gain traction.

    The Hague Declaration comes complete with the kiss of death, as in, "The International Monetary Fund has a central role leading the international effort to support Ukrainian reform, lessening Ukraine's economic vulnerabilities, and better integrating the country as a market economy in the multilateral system." That's code for "wait till structural adjustment starts biting".

    And then there will be "measures to enhance trade and strengthen energy security" - code for "we will destroy your industry" but "are not very keen on paying your humongous Gazprom bill".

    All this in the sidelines of a supposed summit on nuclear security in the Netherlands, where US President Barack Obama, at the Rijksmuseum, in front of Rembrandt's The Night Watch, extolled Washington's "support of the Ukrainian government and Ukrainian people". Rembrandt's watchers have never seen anything like it in their glorious lifespan. It pays to be a Nazi after all; you just need to be in the right government, against the right enemy, and fully approved by the hyper-power.

    King Willem-Alexander hosted a lavish dinner for the members of the nuclear security summit at the Royal Palace Huis ten Bosch in The Hague - after Obama met with Chinese President Xi Jinping in a (failed) bid to "isolate" Russia. The White House would later add that, as long as Russia continues "flagrantly" to violate international law, "there is no need for it to engage with the G7". Unless, of course, it starts conducting a drone war in Ukrainian badlands - with kill-list attached.

    All about NATO

    The US Senate - always enjoying superb popularity ratings - laboriously laid the groundwork for debating a bill backing a US$1 billion loan guarantee for the regime changers in Kiev, plus $150 million in aid also including "neighboring countries". These figures are enough to pay Ukraine's bills for maybe two weeks.

    Meanwhile, in the facts on the ground department, Crimea will be booming soon - tourism included - and may even become a "special economic zone". [2] Subjects of the upcoming IMF/agrobusiness-plundered Khaganate of Nulands will see the results for themselves.

    Hysteria within the North Atlantic Treaty Organization that Russia is about to invade everyone and his neighbor literally tomorrow - remember The Russians Are Coming! - persists unabated. Independent observers, The Roving Eye included, always insisted this is all about NATO, and not the European Union. [3]

    Since the go-go days of the Bill Clinton era, NATO has been expanding to the doorstep of Russia. The process graphically represents US hegemony over Europe; NATO "annexed" Eastern Europe even before the EU. And even those certified US Cold Warriors such as Paul Nitze always thought this was a needless, dangerous provocation of Russia.

    Very few remember how "Bubba" Clinton, to make sure terminal alcoholic Boris Yeltsin was re-elected in 1996, postponed NATO's expansion for a year. Afterwards, the expansion turbocharged into NATO as global Robocop - from the Balkans to the intersection of Central and South Asia, and to Northern Africa.

    NATO's humanitarian bombing of Yugoslavia - 36,000 combat missions, 23,000 bombs and missiles - whose 15th anniversary is "celebrated" this week, codified the new realities. NATO had nothing to do with defense; it was a multi-lethal (transformer) attack dog. It was the epitome of clean war; aerial blitzkrieg, and no casualties. And it was totally legitimized by "human rights" over national sovereignty; that was humanitarian imperialism in the making, opening the way to "responsibility to protect" and the destruction of Libya.

    Moscow knows very well the lineaments of the neo-barbarian behemoth at its gates, in the form of NATO bases in Ukraine, assuming the regime changers in Kiev remain in power. And their response has absolutely nothing to do with "Putin's aggression". Or the so-called "Medvedev Doctrine" of Russia theoretically extending military protection to Russians everywhere. As if Russia was about to "threaten" its business interests in Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan, Tajikistan or Mongolia.

    What the White House calls "the international community" - roughly the "Hague Declaration" G-7 plus a few European minions - could not possibly admit that. Asia, on the other hand, clearly identifies it. China, Japan and South Korea, for starters, identify Russia with a steady supply of oil and gas and further business deals. Even considering that Japan and South Korea are essentially US protectorates, nothing could be more anachronistic in their calculations than a Western-provoked New Cold War.

    Asia will not "isolate" Russia - and Asians and Russians know it, as much as The White House is in denial. Beijing's abstention in "condemning" Moscow - talk about the American angry-schoolmaster brand of politics - is classic Deng Xiaoping-style "keep a low profile", as China is Russia's strategic partner and both are busy working for the emergence of a multipolar world. Not to mention Beijing's utmost rejection of US-style color-coded "revolutions" and regime change ops - as well as that "pivoting to Asia" encirclement ops.

    Oh, to have been an EU-regulated fly on the wall in that Hague room where Obama and Xi were talking; cool Xi meets Obama pivoting around himself.

    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/CEN-01-250314.html#.UzLvZiGloxU.twitter

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    Post  Vann7 Fri Mar 28, 2014 7:12 am



    I do not see any war not now ,not in the future over Crimea.. Ukrainians will not fight Russia that they see as their cousins majority for a land they know in their hearts was always Russian and a referendum confirmed its support.
    Pretty much Russia won Crimea without firing a single shot and the most interesting part of all , is that the Junta
    in Kiev was not expecting that and in shock how they lost it..including the thousands of defections.. From 20,000 Ukrainian troops ,only 2,000 remained loyal to the kiev gov.

    The only way i see a war going in Ukraine in the distant future is that NATO start building a missile shield in Ukraine and supply them with nuclear weapons.. but even there ,i think Putin Reaction will be to give nukes to CUba ,venezuela ,ARgelia ,Syria and Iran. So Russia have their ways to pressure NATO to retreat from Russian borders.
    Also Russia have the option to create dissent in Ukraine and reverse the coup with another one ,using the 8 million russians living in Ukraine. The 100,000 troops near Ukraine border is non sense.
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    Post  Austin Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:20 am

    No reasonable alternative to energy supplies from Russia to EU — German vice chancellor
    http://en.itar-tass.com/world/725664

    BERLIN, March 28. /ITAR-TASS/. The deliveries of natural gas from Russia to the European Union “have no reasonable alternative,” German Vice Chancellor, Minister of Economics and Energy Sigmar Gabriel said on Thursday evening at an energy forum in Osnabruck, organized by the Neue Osnabrucker Zeitung newspaper.

    According to him, at discussions on Europe’s dependence on Russian natural gas and oil “it is often concluded that there are many other possibilities (for getting energy resources).” However, it is not so, stated the chairman of the German Social Democratic Party that is part of the government coalition in Germany.

    Gabriel also warned against “panic sentiments”. “Even during the ‘cold war’ Russia had observed the concluded agreements,” the German vice chancellor stressed.

    German Federal Chancellor Angela Merkel for her part called for “reducing the dependence” of the European Union from energy supplies from Russia. Talking to reporters in Berlin on Thursday after a meeting with Canadian Prime Minister Steven Harper, she said that “the hole energy policy (of the European Union) will be reconsidered.”

    The head of the German government said that it would be done because the EU is “highly” dependent on Russian oil and gas. And Germany’s dependence “has long been not the greatest anymore,” Merkel said.
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    Post  Austin Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:20 am

    It would take around a decade for EU to reduce its Energy Dependencies on Russia ..by that time Russia too could reorient its energy supply to the Asian Market.
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    Post  arpakola Fri Mar 28, 2014 12:48 pm

    http://www.news123.gr/nea/newsgroup.php/5113334/
    Although the parliament of Cyprus voted against any sanction or condemnation against Russia

    the NATO pig Anastasiadis (pretending the president of Cyprus..) voted in UN in favor of Russia condemnation
    http://www.philenews.com/el-gr/eidiseis-politiki/39/192009/thetiki-psifos-tis-kyprou-sti-gensynelefsi-tou-oie-gia-tin-krimaia
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    Post  Viktor Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:35 pm

    Austin wrote:It would take around a decade for EU to reduce its Energy Dependencies on Russia ..by that time Russia too could reorient its energy supply to the Asian Market.

    By that time Russia will take further steps to increase EU dependency on its energy supply as you see Austin this is not the first time ever that EU want to decrease its dependancy on

    Russian supplys - it is its constant agenda. Nabucco and Nabucco light where some of their biggest but failed projects to do so and there are others of course.
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    Post  arpakola Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:40 pm

    Viktor wrote:
    Austin wrote:It would take around a decade for EU to reduce its Energy Dependencies on Russia ..by that time Russia too could reorient its energy supply to the Asian Market.

    By that time Russia will take further steps to increase EU dependency on its energy supply as you see Austin this is not the first time ever that EU want to decrease its dependancy on

    Russian supplys - it is its constant agenda. Nabucco and Nabucco light where some of their biggest but failed projects to do so and there are others of course.

    and all those.. until Batumi starts asking for independance and claiming territories very - very close to the pipes..
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    Post  sepheronx Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:01 pm

    arpakola wrote:http://www.news123.gr/nea/newsgroup.php/5113334/
    Although the parliament of Cyprus voted against any sanction or condemnation  against Russia

    the NATO pig Anastasiadis (pretending the president of Cyprus..) voted in UN in favor of Russia condemnation
    http://www.philenews.com/el-gr/eidiseis-politiki/39/192009/thetiki-psifos-tis-kyprou-sti-gensynelefsi-tou-oie-gia-tin-krimaia

    This could prove very costly to cyprus as a large portion of their finances comes from Russian oligarcges dumping their money in Cyprus banks. With the whole sanctions ordeal being pushed, and Putins push for everyone to use domestic banks (with possibility of creating a tax free zone in Russia), then they could lose out in those billions. I think the comdemning nations will eventually feel this and may think twice in future. At least I hope Putin actually pushes the oligarches to bring back this money.
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    Post  flamming_python Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:37 pm

    sepheronx wrote:
    arpakola wrote:http://www.news123.gr/nea/newsgroup.php/5113334/
    Although the parliament of Cyprus voted against any sanction or condemnation  against Russia

    the NATO pig Anastasiadis (pretending the president of Cyprus..) voted in UN in favor of Russia condemnation
    http://www.philenews.com/el-gr/eidiseis-politiki/39/192009/thetiki-psifos-tis-kyprou-sti-gensynelefsi-tou-oie-gia-tin-krimaia

    This could prove very costly to cyprus as a large portion of their finances comes from Russian oligarcges dumping their money in Cyprus banks. With the whole sanctions ordeal being pushed, and Putins push for everyone to use domestic banks (with possibility of creating a tax free zone in Russia), then they could lose out in those billions. I think the comdemning nations will eventually feel this and may think twice in future. At least I hope Putin actually pushes the oligarches to bring back this money.

    They're gonna lose out of those billions for the reasons you already mentioned, that have nothing to do with the UN resolution (which Russia nor anyone else cares about - let's be real), as well as last year's episode when Germany froze and cut a nice chunk from the assets of large Russian depositors in Cypriot banks in order to pay for the Cypriot bailout
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    Post  Austin Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:48 pm

    Obama urges Russia to move its troops away from Ukrainian border
    http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/28/world/europe/ukraine-crisis/index.html?hpt=hp_t2


    (CNN) -- Russia could ease tensions with Ukraine if it were to move its troops away from its border with Ukraine and begin direct talks with the Kiev government, President Obama said in an interview aired Friday by CBS News.

    "You've seen a range of troops massing along that border under the guise of military exercises, but these are not what Russia would normally be doing," the President said. "It may simply be an effort to intimidate Ukraine, or it may be that they've got additional plans.

    "And, in either case, what we need right now to resolve and de-escalate the situation would be for Russia to move back those troops and to begin negotiations directly with the Ukrainian government as well as the international community."

    Russia may have 40,000 troops near its border with Ukraine, two U.S. officials told CNN on Thursday. The officials said that this estimate was largely based on satellite imagery and that a firm number is difficult to assess.

    However, a spokesman for Ukraine's Council of National Security and Defense, Yarema Dukh, told CNN his government estimates 88,000 Russian troops are at the Ukrainian border.

    U.S. officials said they believe the higher estimates may reflect Russian troops on alert farther to the east.
    Russia has said its troops are carrying out snap military exercises in the region.

    Obama said he believes Russian President Vladimir Putin still harbors a grievance over the 1991 dissolution of the Soviet Union. "You would have thought that, after a couple of decades, there'd be an awareness on the part of any Russian leader that the path forward is not to revert back to the kinds of practices that were so prevalent during the Cold War."

    Instead, he said, Putin should be moving toward further integration with the world economy.

    Obama said that Putin has described the breakup of the Soviet Union as tragic, and that he may feel that the West has taken advantage of Russia.

    "He may be entirely misreading the West," Obama said. "He's certainly misreading American foreign policy. We have no interest in encircling Russia, and we have no interest in Ukraine -- beyond letting the Ukrainian people make their own decisions about their own lives."

    He said he rejected the notion that a sphere of influence along its border justifies Russia invading other countries.

    "Certainly, they're going to have influence -- because of trade and tradition and language and heritage -- with Ukraine," he said. "
    But there's a difference between that and sending in troops and, because you're bigger and stronger, taking a piece of the country. That is not how international law and international norms are observed in the 21st century."
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    Post  Austin Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:50 pm

    I just hope Russia de-escalates it and removes the troops.

    I see no logic in going inside Eastern Ukraine....beats any logic now that they have got Crimea.
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    Post  Viktor Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:58 pm

    Austin wrote:I just hope Russia de-escalates it and removes the troops.

    I see no logic in going inside Eastern Ukraine....beats any logic now that they have got Crimea.

    Obama started a process that resulted with Ukraine being in total mess and now is asking/pleeing Russia to remove its troops - no can do.

    Putin said and gain permission to go after the nazis should they start killing civilians and that is what he will do in such case. Sanctions are out of a question so there is noo reason

    to deescalate situation in "west" favor. West is the one who should have been deescalating and choose not to, so why should Putin deescalate now when its works to its favor?
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    Post  arpakola Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:27 pm

    Austin wrote:I just hope Russia de-escalates it and removes the troops.

    I see no logic in going inside Eastern Ukraine....beats any logic now that they have got Crimea.
    The Situation in the Ukraine. #2 - Page 29 Z
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    Post  sepheronx Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:19 pm

    Austin wrote:Obama urges Russia to move its troops away from Ukrainian border
    http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/28/world/europe/ukraine-crisis/index.html?hpt=hp_t2


    (CNN) -- Russia could ease tensions with Ukraine if it were to move its troops away from its border with Ukraine and begin direct talks with the Kiev government, President Obama said in an interview aired Friday by CBS News.

    "You've seen a range of troops massing along that border under the guise of military exercises, but these are not what Russia would normally be doing," the President said. "It may simply be an effort to intimidate Ukraine, or it may be that they've got additional plans.

    "And, in either case, what we need right now to resolve and de-escalate the situation would be for Russia to move back those troops and to begin negotiations directly with the Ukrainian government as well as the international community."

    Russia may have 40,000 troops near its border with Ukraine, two U.S. officials told CNN on Thursday. The officials said that this estimate was largely based on satellite imagery and that a firm number is difficult to assess.

    However, a spokesman for Ukraine's Council of National Security and Defense, Yarema Dukh, told CNN his government estimates 88,000 Russian troops are at the Ukrainian border.

    U.S. officials said they believe the higher estimates may reflect Russian troops on alert farther to the east.
    Russia has said its troops are carrying out snap military exercises in the region.

    Obama said he believes Russian President Vladimir Putin still harbors a grievance over the 1991 dissolution of the Soviet Union. "You would have thought that, after a couple of decades, there'd be an awareness on the part of any Russian leader that the path forward is not to revert back to the kinds of practices that were so prevalent during the Cold War."

    Instead, he said, Putin should be moving toward further integration with the world economy.

    Obama said that Putin has described the breakup of the Soviet Union as tragic, and that he may feel that the West has taken advantage of Russia.

    "He may be entirely misreading the West," Obama said. "He's certainly misreading American foreign policy. We have no interest in encircling Russia, and we have no interest in Ukraine -- beyond letting the Ukrainian people make their own decisions about their own lives."

    He said he rejected the notion that a sphere of influence along its border justifies Russia invading other countries.

    "Certainly, they're going to have influence -- because of trade and tradition and language and heritage -- with Ukraine," he said. "
    But there's a difference between that and sending in troops and, because you're bigger and stronger, taking a piece of the country. That is not how international law and international norms are observed in the 21st century."

    For not wanting to encircle Russia, but pushing for two neighbouring nations of Russia to join nato, not including ones already in it bordering them tells a different tale.

    As well, furthering themselves into world economy will give us more authority over Russia. Bad advice abd message I think.
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    Post  flamming_python Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:12 pm

    lol

    A collage of the pics used in the Ukrainian-language version of the Wikipedia article on Russia

    Very Happy

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #2 - Page 29 07-rus10

    Says it all really
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    Post  arpakola Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:22 pm

    http://charly015.blogspot.gr/2014/03/putin-ordena-que-rusia-devuelva.html
    ?????
    ------------------------


    In a historic dispute with the West, Russia reclaims Crimea - March, 2014
    http://theriseofrussia.blogspot.gr/2014/03/in-historic-dispute-with-west-russia.html
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    Post  flamming_python Fri Mar 28, 2014 7:44 pm

    arpakola wrote:http://charly015.blogspot.gr/2014/03/putin-ordena-que-rusia-devuelva.html
    ?????
    ------------------------


    In a historic dispute with the West, Russia reclaims Crimea - March, 2014
    http://theriseofrussia.blogspot.gr/2014/03/in-historic-dispute-with-west-russia.html

    Cheaper than scrapping them apparently.

    Makes sense I guess - that junk has zero value in combat anyway.

    Can't understand why the ships are being handed over though. If scrapping is expensive, they can always just sink them; and unlike some rusty tanks they will have combat value, even the most obsolete ones, and would pose a danger to the Russian BSF.
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    Post  TR1 Fri Mar 28, 2014 7:47 pm

    Good, should do that with both naval and ground systems.

    Hell give them their planes back t0o.


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