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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #1

    Werewolf
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    Post  Werewolf on Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:55 am

    flamming_python wrote:Little humour to lighten the mood

    Feel sorry for the non-Russian speakers here, you guys are missing out  lol! 


    But i really have to aggree with this fellow, on all accounts.
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    Post  sepheronx on Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:24 am

    hehehe banned on MP again. This time because I pointed out the fact that EU is tied to Russian economy, and US has not had a president impeached for their actions in other countries or embargoes placed on them, so why should Russia? guess the mods did not like that one.
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    Post  Werewolf on Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:27 am

    sepheronx wrote:hehehe banned on MP again.  This time because I pointed out the fact that EU is tied to Russian economy, and US has not had a president impeached for their actions in other countries or embargoes placed on them, so why should Russia?  guess the mods did not like that one.

    The place is a joke along with the people there, talking lot of freedom of speech but never granting anyone their opinion, so much for rights here and there.
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    Post  sepheronx on Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:28 am

    Werewolf wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:hehehe banned on MP again.  This time because I pointed out the fact that EU is tied to Russian economy, and US has not had a president impeached for their actions in other countries or embargoes placed on them, so why should Russia?  guess the mods did not like that one.

    The place is a joke along with the people there, talking lot of freedom of speech but never granting anyone their opinion, so much for rights here and there.

    Yeah, all while I was just about to respond to a person talking about Russian economy and how he can learn to read the numbers (to tell him he is wrong). Guess its too late now. Whatever. Not like any of those armchair generals actually make a difference to anything anyway.
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    Post  flamming_python on Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:31 am

    Wow the Ukraine is **really** getting penetrated from all sides here.

    Eastern Ukrainians by Western Ukrainians
    Kievans by Pravyj Sektor and all this neo-nazi trash
    Ukrainian military in the Crimea by the Russian military
    And now - all of the Ukraine by the IMF

    Yatsenyuk today agreed to the IMF's conditions. According to some reports there are 10 of them, as follows:

    ===============================================================================

    1. Raising of pension age by 2 years for men, 3 years for women. Cancellation of the right for qualification for early pensions and the principle of counting 1 year for 2 in dangerous professions.

    2. Liquidation of the institute for special pension allowances, which are specified for scientists, government workers, managers of state enterprises. Put restrictions on pensions for working pensioners. Set the retirement age for military officers to 60 years.

    3. Increase the gas prices for municipal businesses by 50%, and increase the prices two-fold for household users. Increase electricity prices by 40%. Allow municipal utilities to set their own prices. Allow the gas price to be raised in correspondence to the international rise in gas prices. Increase the excise on petrol by 60 euros.

    4. Cancel benefits and raise prices on public transport by 50%. While not raising the minimum cost of living, balance the social situation through the use of point subsidies.

    5. Privatize all mines and retract all subsidies. Cancel benefits for municipal utilities, transport companies and others. Cancellation of state support for childbirth, free meals and textbooks.

    6. Restrict the practice of simplified taxation. Cancel VAT exemptions in rural districts. Oblige pharmacies to pay VAT.

    7. Cancel the moratorium on the sale of agricultural land. Cancel subsidies for pig and chicken farming.

    8. Reduce the amount of ministers to 14. Leave only one vice-minister. Cancel the position of minister of the cabinet of ministers. Liquidate 6 ministries. Subordinate all state services to ministers. Tax administration, customs service and the state property fund must all become part of the finance ministry.

    9. Restrict excessive salaries for public officials**

    10. Unemployment benefits are only to be assessed after a minimum period of 6 months of employment. Sick pay should be set at 70% of one's salary, but not lower than the minimum wage. Sick pay will only be paid starting from the 3rd day of sick leave.

    ===============================================================================

    * = helloooo China (and EU farmer overlords)
    ** = OK, this one makes sense, but it will probably hit the ones right at the bottom anyway while the powerful will just steal more

    Well if true than the EU and US have certainly showed what friends they are to the Ukraine.

    All this moaning I heard on forums, from Eastern Europeans, even Ukrainians, about how reforms will be good for them, etc... how a 50% rise in gas prices for homeowners will 'increase efficiency' was even something I heard from a Slovakian on mp.net.
    Well now they have their reforms. Good luck to them.

    Russia should have stayed out. As soon as these conditions would have been published; the people of Kiev would have thrown out this band of putschists themselves; nationalism and paper promises don't mean much when your ass is freezing.
    But now the new government can rally the nation behind them and just put all the blame on Russia instead for the worse living standards and economic situation.
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    Post  sepheronx on Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:42 am

    Well, that sucks for Ukraine. While this is all a good indication for Russia to as well change their economic policies to be more dependent on domestic consumption, by increasing average wage, increasing living standards, and pumping out domestic products or products built in the country by countries who are eager to work with Russia (China as an example). Screw EU and USA.
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    Post  Werewolf on Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:45 am

    I think this point is really the hardest kick in the balls for the absolute majority of people.

    Sounds like greece conditions, where all prices where raised and people started to use coal or burn furniture and than the police was running around trying to arrest people for "environmental pollution", while people were trying not to freeze to death by burning the rest what they had left.

    There need to be laws that only aims at individuals, that no individual can gather more money he can spend or so much money that he can actually influence policy or economy and other market concurences which only harms everything. There were a suggestion by a economical expert here in germany to make a treshold for rich people that no one could gather more than 20 mln Euro as a private person, every cent he earns more has to be given to charities or put into states budget for use of the social sector, of course this was torpedoed by politicians and lobbyists, even tho i think 20 mln euro are far to much anyway for a person, but would be a start.
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    Post  flamming_python on Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:10 am

    Oh BTW Donetsk was stormed earlier today. It's now under the control of a new governor appointed by a people's militia. Hell knows who he really is; he's just about the most uninspiring personage you can imagine Smile

    But hey, whatever beats that clique of putchists in Kiev - I'm for it

    Now they're talking about organizing a referendum for joining with Russia, alliance with Crimea, etc...
    If I were them I would just shut it instead of aggravating tensions; simply refuse to recognize Kiev and leave it at that for now.
    Otherwise the chance of similar movements succeeding in Kharkov, Lugansk will lessen.

    BTW the old governor beat it pretty quick. Hell, I've never seen a man run so fast!  respekt 

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    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:08 am

    I still think russia should've stayed away during this colored revolution. It did during yuschenko's one and look what happened: It smothered away by the end of his first term. Now all that russian military intervention will make the current thugs that took over look to the people as some  patriotic heroes that valiantly resisted russian aggression in pursuit of EU democracy and civilisation while they're doing exactly the opposite, but once a specific public opinion is implanted, its very hard to change be it blatantly false or true.
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    Post  Regular on Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:34 am

    Lol I find it funny when Ukrainians are told not to film they get pissed. Well I can understand them. Soldiers really don't want to show their faces, I would like to hear their words - why?
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    Post  Austin on Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:50 am

    To not do any thing is also to accept the fact that what ever is going in Ukraine is in interest of Russia and of Ukranian people specially at EAST/North.

    Also a possibility to loose Crimea if the bandits decided it was illlegal.

    Its a tough choice to make ......The fact that they took time and came to such a decision is to say that they have validated the pro-cons of it ......and doing something has more pros then cons.


    At the end of the day you have to do what is in the best interest of National Interest .........No one Sanctions America or even Argues with them then they invade country on Phoney pretext.

    So in International Diplomacy Might is Right.
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    Post  flamming_python on Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:15 am

    Regular wrote:Lol I find it funny when Ukrainians are told not to film they get pissed. Well I can understand them. Soldiers really don't want to show their faces, I would like to hear their words - why?

    Why do you think? Orders. There's nothing more to it than that.
    They certainly aren't afraid of getting recognized back in Russia and having the shit kicked out of them by this little weed who found courage for all 24 secounds.
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    Post  TR1 on Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:43 am

    LOL @ MP.net praising these Ukranian soldiers for marching unarmed.

    With all the journalists around it was bloody obvious the Russians would do nothing to hurt them. Where were these balls of steel when RUssian forces roamed at will?

    This whole thing shows how pathetically incompetent Ukraine is at policing itself.

    ALso I keep LOLing when I see Georgia comparisons. These Western idiots see Russia as some psuedo USSR, since apparently these two crises are at all alike (Not).

    Well thanks Putin, hope you know what you are doing Smile.

    When we gonna get someone in charge who is not a total retard?
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    Post  Stealthflanker on Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:45 am

    Lookin at a thread in other forum... Someone posted twitter link there stated that some Ukraines are bravely marched to Russian occupied airport...

    https://twitter.com/shustry/status/440734434686689280

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #1 - Page 36 Bh3NyffIUAAysaQ


    The Situation in the Ukraine. #1 - Page 36 Bh3OctqIUAAw9Ax


    Dammit.. That thread's now essentially become a newsfeed for ukraine..(It supposed to be Role playing forum)


    Russian respond ? Stop the coloumn.. firing warning shots and..basically stand down for order.

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #1 - Page 36 Bh3TignIMAAAtFt
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    Post  TR1 on Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:54 am

    Apparently the only shooter was some militia guy.

    The Russians did exactly what anyone with sense would. Brave action my ass, does anyone actually buy this?

    Wow, such passive resistance, so impressed....
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    Post  Stealthflanker on Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:59 am

    TR1 wrote:Apparently the only shooter was some militia guy.

    The Russians did exactly what anyone with sense would. Brave action my ass, does anyone actually buy this?

    Wow, such passive resistance, so impressed....

    The poster of the image in that other forum i guess. Cool Not me.
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    Post  TR1 on Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:18 am

    Wasn't aiming that @ you sorry.

    Just laughing at this heroism...
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    Post  Sujoy on Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:40 am

    In an interview to BBC yesterday , Yulia Tymoshenko said that 80% of the population of Kiev consists of Russian speaking people and they formed the bulk of the anti Govt.supporters at Maidan .

    BBC on it's part telecasted an interview with a 30 something old guy who said that his father is Russian , mom Ukranian and yet he has signed in for the Ukranian army to stop a Russian attack .

    To be sure , if you are outside Russia this is the type of propaganda that is catching up .

    A more balanced article on Ukraine is this .

    http://orientalreview.org/2014/03/03/divide-and-conquer-west-replays-old-partition-game-in-ukraine-i/
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    Post  Austin on Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:52 am



        Russia in the case of sanctions by the United States will be forced to go into other currencies, create a cash-payment system, said Tuesday in an interview with RIA Novosti Presidential Aide Sergei Glazyev.

        "We will have to go into other currencies, create a cash-payment system. We have excellent trade relations with our partners in the East and the South, and we will find a way to not only zeroed our financial dependence on the U.S., but will come out of these sanctions with great advantage for themselves, "- said the eye.


    Trying to announce sanctions against Russia will turn to the collapse of the U.S. financial system, which will entail termination of U.S. dominance in the global financial system. If sanctions are applied against state structures, we will be forced to actually recognize the impossibility of return of those loans that were given to the Russian structures by U.S. banks. Indeed sanctions - a double-edged weapon, and if the United States were frozen our assets, that, accordingly, liabilities of our organizations in the U.S. will also be frozen. This means that our banks and businesses will not return U.S. Loans partners ", - said the eye.
    "The Americans threaten Russia with sanctions and involve the EU in economic and trade war with Russia. Regarding the possible effects of these sanctions can say the following: most of sanctions against Russia will suffer the U.S. itself, because if we talk about trade relations with America, we did them not depend. Treasuries We keep a decent amount - more than $ 200 billion, and if the United States against us dare to apply sanctions to freeze accounts of Russian enterprises and citizens, we can no longer view America as a reliable partner and we encourage all to dump U.S. Treasuries , dump the dollar as the currency in which we can not be sure and leave the U.S. market. "


    http://ria.ru/economy/20140304/998048715.html
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    Post  GarryB on Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:11 am

    Lol I find it funny when Ukrainians are told not to film they get pissed. Well I can understand them. Soldiers really don't want to show their faces, I would like to hear their words - why?

    Few soldiers in foreign countries want to be filmed... such film can be used to plan attacks, to assess force strength and determine how well armed and equipped the potential enemy is.

    If there was a Georgian equivalent it was the drones that flew around the place just before the Georgians started attacking South Ossetia with artillery.

    Personally I think Putin is being sensible... the west will be critical of Russia no matter what it does, at least in this case it has a toe hold in the Crimea that could spread.

    Now that EU austerity measures have been revealed a few Ukrainians might suddenly realise whose deal makes sense and whose does not... If Russia had ordered its forces in the Crimea to do nothing then the coup would have taken control of all of the Ukraine unopposed and the first thing they would likely have done is torn up the agreement on the Crimea and demanded the Russians leave Sevastopol.

    If they hadn't acted now acting later would be too late.

    The lack of concrete western over reaction as we saw in the Georgian conflict perhaps reflects they clearly realise they have taken things too far and Russia wont bow down this time...

    Just looking at the Austerity measures... privatising the mines = sell the mines to western companies who will fire half the work force and then work the remaining miners hard and get every dollar they can out of the Ukrainian soil... with the money generated going into western pockets instead of the Ukrainian economy...
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    Post  flamming_python on Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:14 pm

    Кадыров сообщил о десятках тысяч чеченцев, рвущихся проучить украинских радикалов

    Чеченские силовики со всей серьезностью подойдут к проверке информации о возможной связи между украинскими политиками националистического толка, в том числе из "Правого сектора", с северокавказским террористическим бандподпольем, пообещал глава Чечни Рамзан Кадыров.
    Кадыров сообщил о десятках тысяч чеченцев, рвущихся проучить украинских радикалов
    Фото: Global Look Press

    "Правоохранительные органы нашей республики проверят наличие связей между террористами Северного Кавказа и представителями "Правого сектора". Если информация подтвердится, наш ответ будет справедливым и жестким. Каждого привлечем к ответственности согласно российскому законодательству", - цитирует Кадырова ИТАР-ТАСС.
    Источники агентства в силовых структурах Северного Кавказа утверждают, что "украинские националисты воюют на стороне экстремистов, оказывают им финансовую и иную помощь и поддержку" последние 10-12 лет. К настоящему моменту большинство каналов удалось нейтрализовать.
    Напомним, украинская радикальная организация "Правый сектор" в ночь на воскресенье якобы выступила с обращением к чеченскому террористу Доку Умарову. Вскоре пресс-служба организации заявила, что обращение главы "Правого сектора" Дмитрия Яроша, в котором содержался призыв "с оружием в руках поддержать антироссийские силы в Украине", появилось в результате взлома неизвестными аккаунта на странице организации в соцсети "ВКонтакте".
    "Рецепт Родниной", как назвал дезавуирование обращения Яроша "Московский комсомолец", было предпринято после того, как Кадыров пообещал выписать лидеру националистов "билет в один конец". "Слова Дмитрия Яроша о том, что воевал в Чечне, мы без внимания не оставим. Доку Умаров с нашей помощью отправился туда, откуда никто еще не вернулся. Выпишем туда билет и Ярошу", - заявил глава Чечни на своей странице в Instagram, реагируя на обращение к Умарову.
    Как напоминает МК, Кадырова неоднократно обвиняли в том, что он уничтожает своих врагов не только на территории Чечни и России.
    "Поздно они спохватились, сначала обратились к террористам за помощью, потом стали отрицать свое обращение. Теперь пусть отвечают за свои заявления и противоправные действия, время расплаты пришло", - сказал Кадыров и заверил, что в Чечне "десятки тысяч добровольцев" готовы "встать на защиту украинского народа" от радикалов с Майдана, пишет Newsru.com.
    Сам Ярош, пишет УНН, взялся за создание ячеек своей организации во всех областях Украины, призвал к мобилизации и пообещал участвовать в "освобождении Крыма".
    Отметим, что вопрос о том, жив ли Доку Умаров, остается открытым. В январе Кадыров в очередной раз сообщил о ликвидации "крысы по имени Доку". Но спецслужбы эту информацию опять не подтвердили.

    So, Chechens and Ukrainian Nazis ready to fight over whether Crimea belongs to Russia  What a Face 

    Personally I was holding out for Armenians vs the Italian army but hell this is even better  cheers
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    Post  Hannibal Barca on Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:49 pm

    If Putin move up in Kiev, dethrone Yatseniuk and his friends, restore Yanukovich or an other transitional government and proceed aggressively ousting pro Europeans from power. What do you think about this plan?
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    Post  Austin on Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:58 pm

    Putins Press Confrence today the first since the crisis

    Russia does not consider joining Crimea to Russia - Putin
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    Post  Austin on Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:59 pm

    Check Ammanpour , Prof Stephan Cohen and Wolf Blitzer Clash in The Situation Room


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    Post  Austin on Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:00 pm

    Nice Interview with Stephen Cohen on Ukraine Crises


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