New Russian heavy ICBM - Sarmatian

Indeed, the manufacturing capacity has to be kept alive. I would even go as far as to treat the Sarmat like a car. Retire
the newest models in 20 years. No need to keep an ICBM functional for 50+ years. The US is going to learn the hard way
that this is not the proper approach.

Russia gets accused of a lot of things but wasting money is not a common accusation...

Not like they never do of course... the NK-25 and NK-32 engines are different enough to not be compatible but had the same specs including weight and size and performance and are used by the same aircraft company... Tupolev... on their Tu-22m3 and Tu-160 designs... it would have been cheaper to use one engine type and focussed the money spent on the two different programmes essentially making the same engine to do it cheaper and faster, but who is to say it really was a waste.

In terms of compatibility and servicing it would not be perfect and having to make two different engines for two planes that require the same engine performance from each engine sounds silly, but who is to say they didn't combine development to make both development processes easier and faster with cooperation, or maybe competition drove them to make much better engines... resulting in more power and better fuel efficiency than the previous model engine achieved.

We can see the Tu-144 was not an efficient aircraft with its original 20 ton thrust engines which seemed to be related to the older engines used on the earlier Tu-22M2s... but the new engines for the Tu-160 were tested on the Tu-144 and massively improved performance... to the point where Russia hating America chose to work with Tupolov in the 1990s when they wanted to design new supersonic airliners, instead of their European partners with the still operational at the time Concord...

With the new engines the Tu-144 was closer in performance to what the Americans wanted to build so they insisted on working with Tupolev instead of the French.

Different engine types means more flexibility... the Russian aircraft industry suffered for a lack of engines in different power ranges as a legasy of the cold war and distributed production.

lancelot wrote:IMHO there is no reason to keep the facilities for military and civilian liquid fuel rockets separate. The facilities which make the Soyuz-5 or Angara rocket could be making the Sarmat's replacement whenever it becomes necessary to do it. The tools equipment are basically the same and the know how is pretty similar. There is some specialized knowledge to handle hypergolics. But not THAT different. I already said more than once that I think Russia has way too many liquid rocket families for space launch and this is another manifestation of the same issue. Russia needs to handle its budget more carefully than the US since it can't just blow money uselessly like they do.

You're completely missing the context. All these rockets are produced by DIFFERENT factories, design schools and research teams. There are literally thousands of kilometers between them. So the number of rocket types corresponds to the number of teams engaged in their development.

I've noticed Russia likes using "soft launch" systems from silos
re harder to detect the launch and gentler on the components on board etc etc

this is interesting

MIT - Moscow Institute of Thermal Technology
is about to sign a contract for a maglev train ....

MIT is a division of Roscosmos .....

this looks suspiciously like recycled engineering from a proposed maglev style soft launch silo system to me ....
ie what on Earth would a "thermal institute" being doing working on something like this ?

JSC "Corporation" Moscow Institute of Thermal Engineering "plans to sign an agreement on the construction of a track for a train on a magnetic cushion, said Yuri Solomonov, General Designer of MIT, Academician of the Russian Academy of Sciences, Hero of Labor of Russia.
“We are now at the stage of signing the agreement for the first route,” Solomonov is quoted by TASS.

He noted that the agreement will be in June.

According to him, the commissioning of the route is planned for 2025.

On May 13, it was reported that a model of a train on a magnetic cushion will be demonstrated for the first time by the Moscow Institute of Thermal Engineering Corporation.

shot of the prototype train in this article

https://www.worldstockmarket.net/maglev-trains-are-being-tested-in-russia/

maybe they will connect the Khrunichev Space Centre in west Moscow with the Korolyov conglomerate in east Moscow ?
that would be pretty cool ...

Cold launch systems means reloading is quicker and easier because there is no damage to the launch tube.

To be clear cold launch means the motor of the missile or rocket is not started till it is clear of the launch tube... their might be flames coming out of the launch tube as the cold launch system used to eject the weapon might include a rocket motor too.


Missile explosions often happen when the main rocket is fired up so having that happen outside of the launch tube is safer for the platform too... which is not to say it would be completely safe of course.

People find the product development process in Russia strange because it seems to occur from enterprises that are not nominally
focused on such development. But that is not Russian schizophrenia. There is a cluster of innovation in some research-active
enterprise and it is evaluated that this innovation has potential. So the people who have produced the promising development are
tasked with completing the task. No point transferring their ideas/work to some other enterprise and different people just to keep
things "orderly". The other aspect is that during the USSR this sort of floating or academic development model was the norm and
Russia has not totally flushed down the toilet all of its Soviet experience.

I think it is a good thing that Russian R&D is spread over a wider base of enterprises. This gives it more capacity and probability of
innovation. Rosatom does not have to fixate on nuclear-only research if a slew of other needs arise, for example materials science
needs. Same goes for Roscosmos.

GarryB wrote:Cold launch systems means reloading is quicker and easier because there is no damage to the launch tube.

To be clear cold launch means the motor of the missile or rocket is not started till it is clear of the launch tube... their might be flames coming out of the launch tube as the cold launch system used to eject the weapon might include a rocket motor too.

Are the ATGMs and rockets launched by Mi-28, Ka-52 cold launched?

I gather, helicopter launched rockets cannot be cold launched. ATGMs probably. Not sure though.

kvs wrote:People find the product development process in Russia strange because it seems to occur from enterprises that are not nominally
focused on such development.

Who are these people? South Korea is surviving on Russian product management techniques. Ditto for China. Most Russian university toppers in STEM are immediately hired by Samsung, Huawei and other Asian tech giants.

I have discovered that the Soviets had a prototype maglev train
fascinating stuff .... the Rus are such intriguing people

https://englishrussia.com/2017/02/21/unique-soviet-magnetic-levitation-train-that-could-go-400-kmh-photos-video/

and it does seem the Chinese are looking at an electric catapult for their ICBMs from Tibet

https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/china-building-cutting-edge-rockets-for-high-altitude-locations-could-be-deployed-on-india-border/story-QbZ7rXVia8PfQcYQuahCeK.html#:~:text=China%20is%20building%20rockets%20for%20its%20artillery%20units,indicating%20the%20projectiles%20could%20be%20deployed%20against%20India.

I think ... my gutfeel is probably right
this maglev train is a spinoff of a proposed rocket launch system

going off at my usual tangent ... you guys should be used to me by now

I don't know about you guys but I have theory on all technology
I believe that Rus and American engineering is very similar
they are both pragmatists .... they make things that are durable and as simple as possible

whereas the Germans and Japs are more obsessed with intricate engineering

I think it is to do with geography
Rus and USA are large countries and you need engineering that is durable and simple to maintain
whereas Jap and EU are very compact geographically so the need for simplicity and durability is less of an issue

why I was saying on the Car industry thing a week ago
Rus is crazy to adopt idiotic EU standards for cars .....
I think they should tell the EU to insert their car regs up Ursula dan ver Hairgel's date ....
it will be difficult of course .... they will need to extract her inflate head out there first

also why Rus and US are so well suited to working together in space
.... question is ..... what are the Chinese ?
vast country ..... I put them in the pragmatist camp .... I think that scares the shit out of the US ....


.... yes I'm having a home brew bourbon .... cheers

Are the ATGMs and rockets launched by Mi-28, Ka-52 cold launched?

The vast majority are because of the ATGM design.

If you put the solid rocket in the back of an ATAKA or SHTURM or Kornet or Vikhr missile then where would you put the rear facing sensor to detect the command guidance commands for the Ataka and Shturm, or the lasers the Kornet and Vikhr ride to the target?

Equally if the rocket motor is in the rear and burns forward the balance of the missile is going to get more and more nose heavy as the fuel in the rear burns and the back end gets lighter.

Most of the Russian/Soviet ATGMs have rocket nozzles mounted near the centre of gravity half way down the sides of the missile angled backwards to push the missile forward... but obviously in a tube these rocket nozzles wont blow the missile out of the tube so they need a gas generator or powder charge in the rear of the tube to blow the missile forward out of the tube... once it gets clear the rocket lights up and flames come out the sides but angled backwards to accelerate the missiles forward and often are angled slightly to induce a slow rate of spin as well.

Locating the rocket fuel around the centre of gravity means as it burns the missile remains balanced...

I gather, helicopter launched rockets cannot be cold launched. ATGMs probably. Not sure though.

Rockets are generally hot launched and follow a ballistic path so the shift in weight as the rocket fuel burns is accounted for in the ballistic charts or ballistic aiming tables for them... if you have ever played darts you will know that heavy weight in the nose and fins at the rear to keep it nose pointed frontwards works well enough... it is when it glides long distances in powered flight that cg issues arise.... especially when you want the warhead to be pointed at the target... preferably slightly nose down on impact...

I think they should tell the EU to insert their car regs up Ursula dan ver Hairgel's date ....

Totally agree... there are lots of weirdoes and freeks that get to make decisions regarding EU regulations... Russia should look at their own needs and the directions they want to take and just ignore the EU.

There might even be areas where EU regulations don't go far enough, but that will be for Russia to decide for Russia.

I need a drink now because you made me think of that witches freckle...

GarryB wrote:Rockets are generally hot launched and follow a ballistic path so the shift in weight as the rocket fuel burns is accounted for in the ballistic charts or ballistic aiming tables for them

But a number of helicopter launched rockets being used by both Russia and NATO are precision guided. So they don't need to follow a ballistic path. Yet these rockets are not cold launched.

They generally have guidance systems added to them that include control fins for steering... the guidance systems look forward for target marking laser spots or optical guidance so they don't need to look back at the launch platform like a command guided missile (Ataka, Shturm, Khrisantema) or the laser beams the missile is riding to the target (Vikhr, Kornet, Bulat).

The early ASMs the Soviets used were actually based on the AA-1 Alkali which was a complex mess of a design with the warhead in the nose and the command guidance pod in the tail and the rocket motors half way down the tube... it didn't last long as an AAM but they made them in enormous numbers so what do you do with them?

Well you use them as ASMs, so the Kh-25 family of missiles is based on the airframe... the Kh-66 western codename Kerry actually kept the rear mounted command guidance antenna and was manually flown into the target by the pilot. Later models include anti radiation weapons and the modular Kh-25 family of missiles all using the same layout.

These weapons are currently replaced by Kh-31 and Kh-58 and Kh-59 and Kh-29 and now Kh-38 and a range of other new weapons, though to be fair the Kh-59 still uses rear a facing datalink that communicates with a dedicated pod on the aircraft.

At its simplest level you can take an 80mm unguided Russian/Soviet rocket and fit a nose mounted fuse with built in control fins to steer the missile and a nose mounted seeker to find the target to make any unguided rocket guided... to maximise range you would loft it into the air so it comes in on the target diving down at an angle so cg is not a problem... it is not flying it is falling.

When we see Russian aircraft launching rockets into the air and firing them in volleys they wont be guided... Rockets are used for area targets and firing in volleys to get good coverage is normal and is not helped or improved with guidance kits for Rockets.

The idea of guided rocket packages would be to allow long range hits on point targets that even a volley of rockets might not hit... like a single vehicle, so you can save money by just using one rocket instead of the entire pod to try to hit a point target.

Ironically the RPG-7 is cold launched too... it fires like a recoilless rifle where propellent is detonated to blow the rocket down the tube and out towards the target at about 160m/s. At about 11 metres down range with the tail surfaces deployed the rocket motor of the RPG-7 rocket lights up and accelerates the rocket to supersonic speed and flattens the trajectory to the target.

I think ... my gutfeel is probably right
this maglev train is a spinoff of a proposed rocket launch system

Actually the magnetic force needed to move a train or lift a huge rocket out of a silo would be immense... I would expect such technology would be useful in an EMALS catapult system for aircraft carriers, because a 30 or 40 ton plane accelerated to 250km/h in a short stretch of deck would be comparable to lifting a 100 ton missile up and out of a hole in the ground or moving a few thousand tons of train along a track at 300-400km/h.... the Chinese already seem to have an EMALS cat system on their new carrier, so adopting the same technology on land to move stock around just makes sense.

Would be interesting to see what sort of weapons they could create where masses of metal and explosive could be accelerated... accelerating a 40 ton plane to 250km/h over a space of 15-20m, or a 1,000 ton train to 400km/h... what speed could it accelerate a 500kg bomb... and if you angled it up... how far could you launch them without burning fossil fuels...

Once you can lift something above the surface magnetically then you reduce friction with the ground... in the same way a wheel reduces friction but even more so.

Then the only things slowing you down are the airflow/air resistance and the ability to gain momentum.

The Sarmat developer announced that the missile will be equipped with modern maneuvering warheads.

According to Vladimir Degtyar, General Director of the Makeyev State Missile Center, the Sarmat intercontinental ballistic missile will be able to exit the silo under any conditions.
MOSCOW, September 22. /tass/. The Sarmat intercontinental ballistic missile is equipped with maneuvering warheads. This was announced to TASS by Vladimir Degtyar, Director General of the Makeev State Rocket Center (part of Roscosmos).

The Sarmat is equipped with the most modern maneuvering warheads, " Degtyar said.

According to the general director of the enterprise, the uniqueness of the Sarmat is unsurpassed speed, record range, highest shooting accuracy and complete invulnerability when overcoming the missile defense system.

According to Degtyar, the Sarmat intercontinental ballistic missile will be able to exit the silo under any conditions. "According to its maximum characteristics to date, the rocket will come out of the mine under any conditions and will be guaranteed to fulfill its task, no matter what - such high reliability is inherent in this missile system," said Degtyar. In June, he told TASS that the Sarmat silo is a complex engineering structure that guarantees the safety of the missile both when hit by conventional high-precision weapons and nuclear ones.

According to the general director of the enterprise, "Sarmat" is the crown of rocket technology, created by the cooperation of enterprises headed by the SRC. The newest missile system will reliably ensure Russia's security from external threats for 40-50 years, Degtyar believes. "And in today's difficult geopolitical conditions, this is our reliable shield, the main factor of nuclear deterrence and a guarantee of preserving peace," he added.

The general Director of the enterprise reminded that Sarmat will replace the Voevoda complex, which was created in the USSR. At the same time, the new missile, Degtyar emphasized, is not an analog, but a new generation ICBM with colossal tactical and technical characteristics. "That is why it has already been dubbed an 'engineering miracle' and a 'crown of rocket technology'," explained Degtyar.

About the rocket
The Sarmat ICBM was developed at the V. P. Makeev State Rocket Center, manufactured by the Krasmash plant (both enterprises are part of Roscosmos). According to experts, the RS-28 Sarmat ICBM is capable of delivering a separable warhead weighing up to 10 tons anywhere in the world.

The first launch of the Sarmat ICBM was carried out from the Plesetsk cosmodrome in the Arkhangelsk Region on April 20. It was successful, and the calculated characteristics were confirmed at all stages of the rocket's flight.

https://tass.ru/kosmos/15830517

In June, he told TASS that the Sarmat silo is a complex engineering structure that guarantees the safety of the missile both when hit by conventional high-precision weapons and nuclear ones.

nice, I wonder what scenarios he meant by this? that a mine will be hit? or a warhead by asat weapons?

I suspect he means it is hardened to survive near misses by nuclear weapons and that level of strength means it would take a direct hit by a conventional weapon to do some damage, and that likely Active protection systems on the base should prevent direct hits.

Roscosmos plans to show Sarmat to the US inspection team by the end of February 2024

exhibition drills and display will be held on the territory of JSC "Krasmash", which is a manufacturer of missiles
MOSCOW, 23 September. /TASS/. Roskosmos plans to conduct a training and demonstration of the Sarmat intercontinental ballistic missile to the American inspection team by February 20, 2024. The corresponding application is published on the public procurement website .

"The name of the stage, the content of the services: training and conducting the procedure for displaying the RS-28 ICBM (Sarmat ICBM - TASS note) to the American inspection team. <...> The term for the provision of services from the date of conclusion of the state contract: but not earlier than May 20, 2022 year to February 20, 2024," the terms of reference say.

The document specifies that the purpose of the work is to fulfill international obligations. Training and display will be carried out on the territory of JSC "Krasmash", which is a manufacturer of missiles.

Among the planned works, it is noted "preparation and display in demonstration rooms (on sites) of display elements (rocket assembly without warhead on a rack, first stage on a rack, transport and launch container on a railway platform)".

The Sarmat missile was developed at the State Missile Center named after VP Makeev, whose main specialization is the development of sea-based intercontinental ballistic missiles. According to experts, the RS-28 Sarmat ICBM is capable of delivering a multiple reentry vehicle weighing up to 10 tons to anywhere in the world, both through the North and South Poles.

https://tass.ru/kosmos/15850309

GarryB wrote:I suspect he means it is hardened to survive near misses by nuclear weapons and that level of strength means it would take a direct hit by a conventional weapon to do some damage, and that likely Active protection systems on the base should prevent direct hits.

perhaps also course correction once missile is hit...

perhaps also course correction once missile is hit...

My understanding is that he is taking about missile silos resisting being hit rather than missiles continuing after being hit.

20.10.2022
InoSMI

New Russian missile horrified the West




Sohu: "Queen" of Russian missiles will deal a crushing blow anywhere in the world

Before the West had time to recover from the appearance of "Satan", a new rocket came to replace it, writes a Sohu user. It is able to fly across the entire North Pole and reach any point on the planet. The most powerful ICBM in the world will protect Russia from external threats.

In April this year, the Russian army successfully test-fired a Sarmat intercontinental ballistic missile from the Plesetsk cosmodrome in the Arkhangelsk region, during which it accurately hit a target in Kamchatka. This was the first national test of the Sarmat. On the same day, Vladimir Putin congratulated the Russian Armed Forces on the successful launch of the missile, noting that it had no analogues in the world and would not appear in the short term. The President addressed his statement to the West, saying that the new missile system would ensure Russia's security and "make think of those who, in the heat of frenzied aggressive rhetoric, are trying to threaten our country."

As the world's most powerful nuclear missile, the Sarmat is over 35 meters long, can carry 10-15 warheads, and has a circular probable deviation of 150-200 meters. In terms of deadly power, it surpasses the strongest Russian ICBM R-36M (NATO classification - SS-18 "Satan") and, once deployed, could become the world's largest intercontinental ballistic nuclear missile.

The Sarmat is the latest fifth-generation ICBM developed in Russia and given the official serial number RS-28. The main flight path of the rocket is inertial parabolic. It used the advanced technologies of the inertial guidance complex, astro-correction and GLONASS satellite guidance. The combined guidance method provides the most accurate strike. It can fly 18,000 kilometers across the North or even the South Pole and deliver a devastating blow to any point in the world. The Sarmat ICBM is known as the "absolute queen" of the missile family.

The Sarmat ICBM is permanently based on a silo with a total launch weight of more than 100 tons and a warhead weight of about 10 tons. The rocket uses a new liquid-propellant rocket engine developed by RAO NPO Energomash named after Academician V.P. Glushko. The launch method is the ejection of a rocket, followed by turning on the engine. When launched, the powder pressure accumulator ejects the projectile from the shaft to a height of 20-30 meters, after which the engine automatically turns on. "Sarmat" is about to take up combat duty. The Russian Strategic Missile Forces (RVSN) have already made the first order for 50 units.

"Sarmat" is a heavy silo-based intercontinental missile. It can carry up to 14 nuclear warheads, and their penetrating power reaches an incredible 80%. As soon as the tests are successfully completed, the Russian Strategic Missile Forces plan to officially put this type of missile into service as early as next year. They will gradually decommission the R-36M nuclear missiles, which the West calls "Satan" with horror.

ICBM "Sarmat" has four main characteristics: wide range, large bomb load, high strike accuracy and excellent penetrating ability. The warhead has a length of 35.5 meters, a diameter of 3 meters, a takeoff weight of 208.1 tons, a fuel capacity of 178 tons and a maximum flight range of 18,000 kilometers.
The rocket is equipped with staged liquid engines, which are "drowned" in the fuel tank. Fuel tanks are load-bearing, with combined dividing bottoms. The model of the first-stage liquid-propellant rocket engine, PDU-99 (RS-99), is a modernized version of the RD-274 liquid-propellant rocket engine, previously installed on the R-36M ICBM. "Sarmat" can withstand a combat load of more than 10 tons and can carry 10 individually targetable nuclear warheads with an explosive yield of 750,000 tons of TNT.


https://vpk.name/news/643336_novaya_rossiiskaya_raketa_privela_zapad_v_uzhas.html?new#new

November 8, 01:34

The second test launch of the ICBM "Sarmat" can be completed before the end of the year


The first launch of Sarmat was performed on April 20, 2022

MOSCOW, 8 November. /TASS/. The second test launch of the newest heavy liquid intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM) "Sarmat" can be completed before the end of 2022. This was reported to TASS by a source close to the military department.

"Until the end of this year, flight design tests (LKI) of Sarmat can be continued with the second launch of the product," he said.

The first launch of "Sarmat" during the LCI was performed on April 20, 2022. According to the interlocutor of the agency, as in the first launch, the rocket will launch from the Plesetsk cosmodrome with the delivery of combat training units to the Kura training ground in Kamchatka. He noted that after evaluating the results of this launch, a decision could be made to deploy the first regiment with Sarmat ICBMs.

Another TASS source said that "according to the contract signed at the end of 2020, the Strategic Missile Forces will initially receive a regimental kit." He did not specify the timing of putting the regiment on combat duty in full force.

It is believed that full-scale flight design tests - LKIs can be considered completed after at least five launches have been completed. In the case of the Sarmat, one launch must be carried out with an azimuth in a southerly direction, through the South Pole.
About "Sarmat"

The Sarmat missile was developed at the State Missile Center named after VP Makeev, whose main specialization is the development of sea-based intercontinental ballistic missiles. According to experts, the Sarmat ICBM is capable of delivering a multiple reentry vehicle weighing up to 10 tons to anywhere in the world, both through the North and South Poles.

https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/16266767

The first launch was flawless. All systems worked perfectly. No need for a huge number of tests under that circumstances. 

Better to test it properly than to get it into service and on your 10th launch find a problem... there is no hurry that is worth getting this wrong.