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    China Military and Geopolitics

    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:09 am

    A retired general.

    FYI, BBC is full of shit.

    Yes, they are sending martial artists to train their soldiers. But if they were at war with India, the fighting would have already started. Martial arts wont win in this conflict and they all know that. This is to prevent any further deaths if both sides decide to use hand to hand combat.

    Anyone with common sense would know.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:36 am

    During the last incident they were fighting with hands. 20 indians deads and (unofficial) 40 chineses.

    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:42 am

    Yes, but that isn't a war. That was a mob gang fight. Of course they would fight with hand to hands. And the deaths are attributed to soldiers falling off cliffs. Not from breaking necks like they are Steven Seagal.

    If a "war" ever broke out, they would be shooting each other and hand to hand becomes useless.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:11 pm

    Yeah I know. I was pointing out why the propaganda move (sending the martial art guy there) was made. ==> because they fought with hands and stupid media are probably quoting some stupid retired soldier talking about how their martial arts are better than the other's....

    You know, total stupidity.
    jhelb
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    Post  jhelb on Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:41 pm

    Isos wrote:During the last incident they were fighting with hands. 20 indians deads and (unofficial) 40 chineses.
    Not a single dead body of a PLA soldier was found. Those Indians made up those figures. China has not accepted that figure of 40 either.
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    Post  Isos on Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:11 pm

    jhelb wrote:
    Isos wrote:During the last incident they were fighting with hands. 20 indians deads and (unofficial) 40 chineses.
    Not a single dead body of a PLA soldier was found. Those Indians made up those figures. China has not accepted that figure of 40 either.

    Chinese are not reliable either.

    If india had 20 deads you can expect deads on the other side too.

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    jhelb
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    Post  jhelb on Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:56 pm

    Isos wrote:If india had 20 deads you can expect deads on the other side too.
    Maybe the Indians have also lost more than 20 soldiers. They are not disclosing it.
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    Post  Sujoy on Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:02 pm

    Isos wrote:Yeah I know. I was pointing out why the propaganda move (sending the martial art guy there) was made. ==> because they fought with hands and stupid media are probably quoting some stupid retired soldier talking about how their martial arts are better than the other's....

    You know, total stupidity.
    Chinese state media is also saying the same thing. That PLA is sending martial artists to Ladakh

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/military/article/3090840/china-recruits-mma-fighters-tibet-border-militia
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:03 pm

    Wasn't it Enter the Dragon, where Bruce Lee was going to an island to fight some bad guys and he asked where the guns were.... experts know better than anyone else that you can spend decades learning to fight and becoming a master at a variety of fighting skills, but any idiot can be handed a shot gun loaded with buckshot and drop you from 20m away and there is not much you can do about it...

    The point is that in this case the enemies are not idiots on either side... being trained in hand to hand fighting gives you confidence, but even a pistol or a knife makes much more sense.

    I saw a documentary the other day that was actually quite good where they got trained fighters (trained with old weapons) to fight it out with weapons made safe but with referees checking for hits and scores and potential injuries. The spear was vastly superior to any kind of sword simply because you could reach and stab him and with your sword... even a long sword you can't reach and stab him... you can only deal with his spear...

    Most RPG gamers would be crushed to learn this but it is true.

    Equally 10,000 trained ninjas would not defeat 500 soldiers with assault rifles in the mountains... most of the time there is no way to sneak up on positions... and falls and avalanches and the cold are just as dangerous as bullets and hands and feet.

    In fact at altitude the real danger is actually feet or should I say metres... pulling a trigger is much easier that climbing around and physically fighting someone in such conditions.
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:54 pm

    They want to keep it gun-free area so it doesn't get out of control & escalate.
    Although the Chinese Kung Fu was influenced by the Indian monk Da Mo, the 1st Chan Buddhism patriarch, at the Shaolin temple, it is superior to the Indian martial arts. The PLA SOFs use simplified, easier to learn style created by combining the best techniques to neutralise & dispatch an enemy on the battlefield.


    https://www.gazeta.ru/army/2020/07/11/13148959.shtml


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:47 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : add link)

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    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Fri Jul 17, 2020 2:08 pm

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/hisutton/2020/07/17/china-sends-flanker-fighter-jets-to-south-china-sea-amid-tensions/#3c2f7e302f73

    They may deploy more fighters if need be-this may be an advance party.

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    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:13 pm

    Iran could become a protectorate of China
    https://www.rosbalt.ru/world/2020/07/22/1854891.html
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    Post  Sujoy on Sat Jul 25, 2020 4:14 am

    Pakistan and China have entered a three-year deal to expand potential bio-warfare capabilities

    Wuhan Institute of Virology has signed the covert deal with Pakistan military’s Defense Science & Technology Organization (DESTO), to collaborate research in “emerging infectious diseases” and advance studies on the biological control of transmitted diseases.

    https://www.theklaxon.com.au/home/xdx17f6auh0tew0g57ubqrzxkdeux9
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:21 pm

    Very clever: https://asiatimes.com/2020/08/beijing-pushing-new-delhi-toward-a-hard-choice/?mc_cid=4f9545de82&mc_eid=5455568640
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    Post  Sujoy on Sat Aug 15, 2020 12:58 pm

    Chinese amphibious armoured personnel carrier. Unique feature - allows soldiers to jump off before it starts to sink.


    Chinese amphibious armoured personnel carrier
    Hole
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    Post  Hole on Sat Aug 15, 2020 1:51 pm

    A few weeks ago the american version sunk with 8 or 9 dead soldiers as a result.
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Aug 16, 2020 4:53 am

    Unfortunate... but it happens.

    That was flat water... they obviously didn't have the trim vane set properly or perhaps the bilge pumps were not doing their job and got swamped... but everyone sitting on top in life jackets is standard procedure because this happens...
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:57 pm

    Axis Tehran - Moscow - Beijing challenged the unipolar world

    https://www.juancole.com/2020/08/understanding-strategic-partnership.html

    Iran, Pakistan to stage joint naval drills in Strait of Hormuz  http://www.xinhuanet.com//english/2017-03/16/c_136132154.htm


    Now, Iranian & Pakistani navies will complement each other if need be.

    [size=13]
    [/size]
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:15 pm

    By controlling the southern flank of the waters near Taiwan, China is preparing for an encirclement that would, as its most important components, not be a potentially disastrous Normandy-style invasion. Any invasion attempt would include military pressure as well as cyberattacks aimed at paralyzing Taiwan’s crucial infrastructure.
    https://asiatimes.com/2020/08/us-doubles-down-on-taiwan-ties-to-poke-china/?mc_cid=ad9759c8ad&mc_eid=5455568640

    https://asiatimes.com/2020/08/taiwan-to-boost-invasion-defenses-with-us-weapons/

    https://asiatimes.com/2020/08/china-ups-ante-as-us-support-bolsters-taiwan/?mc_cid=d11a42f666&mc_eid=5455568640

    https://asiatimes.com/2020/08/us-china-sea-tensions-hot-and-getting-hotter/?mc_cid=a94ad20b7a&mc_eid=5455568640

    https://asiatimes.com/2020/08/china-accused-of-spying-on-australia-naval-build-up/?mc_cid=8ac6cc75a3&mc_eid=5455568640

    https://asiatimes.com/2020/08/china-flexes-at-us-in-four-seas-show-of-force/?mc_cid=4fcea32b9e&mc_eid=5455568640

    https://asiatimes.com/2020/08/why-there-wont-be-a-us-china-war/?mc_cid=1fffd75694&mc_eid=5455568640

    https://asiatimes.com/2020/08/the-eurasian-century-has-already-begun/?mc_cid=4fcea32b9e&mc_eid=5455568640

    https://www.juancole.com/2020/08/bruited-investment-beijing.html

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/27/world/asia/missiles-south-china-sea.html

    https://asiatimes.com/2020/08/us-china-blast-and-bluster-towards-a-sea-clash/?mc_cid=d5267194a3&mc_eid=5455568640


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Thu Aug 27, 2020 1:50 pm; edited 4 times in total (Reason for editing : add links)
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon Aug 31, 2020 12:36 am

    Taiwan may already have nukes ready: https://nvo.ng.ru/gpolit/2020-08-07/8_1103_coldwar.html?print=Y
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    Post  AlfaT8 on Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:25 pm

    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:03 pm

    The clip creators claim to speak from the Chinese POV. The notion that China wants to dominate the World is incorrect. If she did, Kublai Khan troops would have reached & occupied W. Europe even before the Polo brothers reached him; the Ming fleet of giant junks would've stopped the Portuguese from reaching E. Africa & India, & the Americas, Australia & NZ would've been colonized by her. Rather, she wants to deny any single nation or group of nations such domination & thus secure her own well being. 
    After all, China was plundered by the West, Russia & Japan since the Opium Wars & until 1949. Imported low wage Chinese labor supported the same countries' economies, while the Christian influenced Taiping Rebellion killed 20–30M people.
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    Post  Begome on Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:07 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:The clip creators claim to speak from the Chinese POV. The notion that China wants to dominate the World is incorrect. If she did, Kublai Khan troops would have reached & occupied W. Europe even before the Polo brothers reached him; the Ming fleet of giant junks would've stopped the Portuguese from reaching E. Africa & India, & the Americas, Australia & NZ would've been colonized by her. Rather, she wants to deny any single nation or group of nations such domination & thus secure her own well being. 
    After all, China was plundered by the West, Russia & Japan since the Opium Wars & until 1949. Imported low wage Chinese labor supported the same countries' economies, while the Christian influenced Taiping Rebellion killed 20–30M people.

    From the Wiki: "In 1843, after carefully reading a pamphlet he had received years before from a Protestant Christian missionary, Hong declared that he now understood that his vision meant that he was the younger brother of Jesus and that he had been sent to rid China of the "devils", including the corrupt Qing government and Confucian teachings."
    This guy has reached levels of heresy that most Protestants can only dream of...I don't think it's fair to call the rebellion "Christian influenced", especially since Christianity (i.e. Orthodox Christianity) is pretty much by definition anti-revolutionary and thus doesn't promote any kind of rebellion.

    I agree about China taking a more subtle approach, though, and being probably somewhat more oriented toward a multi-polar world, like Russia, rather than striving for global hegemony. If they do take Taiwan, I hope the brilliant minds of TSMC don't run away; Russia needs their chips (for now)!
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:17 pm

    From the Wiki: "In 1843, after carefully reading a pamphlet he had received years before from a Protestant Christian missionary,.." 
    I don't think it's fair to call the rebellion "Christian influenced", especially since Christianity (i.e. Orthodox Christianity) is pretty much by definition anti-revolutionary and thus doesn't promote any kind of rebellion.
    If he hadn't read it, he wouldn't be inspired by it to make trouble. 
    Protestantism was not above a rebellion- recall decades of religious wars in Europe. 
    In our time there's the Lord's Army in Africa.
    In fact, Japan avoided being colonized thanks to the timely expulsion of Christian missionaries & killing of local converts.
    In China, the Boxer Rebellion came to late.
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    Post  Begome on Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:44 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:If he hadn't read it, he wouldn't be inspired by it to make trouble. 
    Protestantism was not above a rebellion- recall decades of religious wars in Europe. 
    In our time there's the Lord's Resistance Army in Africa.
    In fact, Japan avoided being colonized thanks to the timely expulsion of Christian missionaries & killing of local converts.
    In China, the Boxer Rebellion came to late.

    This is why I explicitly said that Christianity is Orthodox Christianity...any weirdo can call himself Christian and there were all sorts of "Christian" sects including ones that had "sex liturgies" and ate the aborted babies of female parishioners...Protestantism isn't real Christianity and this rebellion leader went way above even the typical Protestant level of craziness.

    I agree that "Protestantism is not above rebellion", though: it basically is rebellion and caused not just religious wars but also all sorts of other murderous and theocratic movements, like the Anabaptists (they're pretty peaceful these days, but that's certainly not how they started out). This "Lord's Resistance Army" also isn't Orthodox and it seems to mostly be a personality cult around their leader, as sects and cults often are.
    With respect to Japan: there were Orthodox missionaries there as well as Western missionaries; you can find the writings of some of the Orthodox fathers there who, even in a time when Japan was at war with Russia (the father's country of origin) told the Japanese to pray for Japanese victory even though they themselves would pray for Russian victory (being Russian) and openly saying that this is the way...to stick by your nation.

    So I would simply suggest not lumping in crazy cults and heretics and their anti-Christian movements with Christianity.

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