Ukrainian Aviation Industry: Discussion

Ukraine and Turkey Sign Agreement On Joint Production of Aircraft Based on Antonov Designs

Ukraine and Turkey have signed an agreement on joint production of passenger and freight aircraft. According to Daily Sabah, they will be assembled in Antonov manufacturing plants.

The agreement was signed by the Deputy Prime Minister of Ukraine Hennadiy Zubko and Minister of National Defense of Turkey İsmet Yılmaz during the Turkish Minister’s visit to Kiev at the end of last week. Zubko stated "I am sure that our work will bear fruit. We have prepared a 'road map' and we will adhere to it.”

According to Daily Sabah, Turkey will create a model of a passenger plane based on the An-158, as well as a cargo aircraft based on the An-178. It is possible that technical cooperation between the two countries will not be strictly limited to the production of aircraft. "Thanks to the efforts of the technical delegation, we discussed bilateral economic relations on the whole,” said Yılmaz.

Antonov to Supply Its First An-132 In Early 2017

The Antonov Design Bureau, a Ukrainian aircraft manufacturing and servicing company, which is part of the state-run Ukroboronprom Concern, plans to supply its first An-132 aircraft to a customer under a contract with Saudi Arabia's scientific organization KACST in early 2017.

This aircraft was designed and built with the use of Europe- and U.S.-supplied components, as well as domestic ones, according to Oleksandr Khokhlov, the director of the An-132 program and deputy chief designer at Antonov.

"Now the aircraft is at the final assembly stage during which the aircraft's systems and equipment are being installed. The maiden flight is planned in the fourth quarter of 2016, and in the first quarter of 2017 we plan that together with our Arabian partner we will present the aircraft to potential customers from Saudi Arabia," Khokhlov said.

He stressed that the aircraft fully meets the customer's requirements and is a good example of import substitution in the domestic production of aircraft.

"Despite the fact that the An-132 is a comprehensive modernization of the An-32 and the An-26 which were designed during the Soviet era, using Russian components, our principled position was to abandon cooperation with Russia, not only for political but also purely economic reasons," Khokhlov said.

At this, Khokhlov noted that in case of signing firm contracts for the construction of new An-132 aircraft, as expected by the Ukrainian company, it will be able to quickly launch a full-scale production of aircraft using own production capacities.

"We possess relevant technical capabilities. In fact, we can carry out a full-scale production of aircraft or share part of the production process with the Saudi company according to a cooperative scheme. Currently they can take on only a small production segment, but they are considering options to expand it. Besides, a joint marketing strategy is more important to us now than industrial cooperation.

Entering Saudi Arabia's market with the An-132 aircraft will allow us to gain a foothold not only on that market but in the entire Middle East region, focusing later on Latin America and India's markets, where Antonov's aircraft have long proved successful," Khokhlov said.

In February 2015, Ukraine's Antonov and Saudi Arabia's Taqnia Aeronautics signed a cooperation agreement on the establishment in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia of aircraft manufacturing complex and the An-132, An-148 and An-178 production. Antonov company estimated that the market demand for the An-132 aircraft in the next 20 years would be 900 units.

"An Croatian investigation into the refurbishment of its MiG-21 fleet by Ukraine has uncovered more irregularities. Paperwork from Ukraine indicated that two engines that it supplied to Croatia were of unknown origins. So far, it has been determined that five of the MiG-21s that Croatia bought as part of the refurbishing package had been put together using parts from airplanes that were scrapped by other air forces.

The hulls were from Bulgaria, which retired the jets back in 1998, and the wings were from Algerian MiGs."

Source: http://alert5.com/2016/06/02/croatian-mig-21s-refurbished-by-ukraine-have-engines-with-questionable-sources/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

"The Azerbaijani company signed the agreement on the purchase of ten Ukrainian-made An-178 aircraft with the Ukrainian state enterprise Antonov, according to military-informant.com.

The price of the contract has not been disclosed, but it has become known that the first advance payment has already been made by Azerbaijan’s company. The amount of prepayment has not been disclosed either. The report says the negotiations have lasted for nearly a year.



The Antonov An-178 will be delivered to Azerbaijan in two shipments within two years: two aircraft to be delivered first, followed by another eight, which may be assembled in the territory of Azerbaijan. The An-178 aircraft made its first flight last year. As of now, there have been 77 landings. Testing of the aircraft is underway. An-178 can transport up to 18 tonnes of various cargo.

The aircraft accelerates to 850 kilometers per hour and flies at a cruising altitude of about 12 kilometers. "

Source: http://defence-blog.com/news/new-ukrainian-an-178-aircrafts-may-be-assembled-in-the-territory-of-azerbaijan.html

Militarov wrote:

does Antonov still plan to produce the AN-70??

Re An-225
Sounds rather like a pr stunt from those pathetic Nazi hohols. Is an oversized An-225 really that useful for "mass production"?

Wasn't Russia a joint venture partner? And in any case, surely RUSSIA holds equal intellectual property? And have the hohols breached an agreement with Russia by selling out to China? Perhaps China could sell any intellectual property on to Russia?

Would Russia produce An-124s and 225s? Or is the plane past it with Russia better off developing Ilyushin variants?

Either way, sad to see these hohol Obama-bitches betray their own roots yet again.

Seems that the Ukropistanis are selling the (inherited) family jewels for a one-off cash injection (which will be immediately stolen by Porkshank and/or his Oligarch allies), while the Chinese get "all manufacturing rights and technological documents for the super-heavy air freighter AN-225 Mriya" and get to manufacture within China without any further Ukrop involvement.

Sounds like a fire sale to me. I wonder how little the Chinese managed to pay the Ukrops? A large sack of potatoes and a case of vodka is a likely price...

It seems to me that the usefulness of the An-225 blueprints and technical drawings is not actually for the An-225 or similar, but rather the An-124.
The An-225 obviously has differences to the An-124, having a stretched fuselage with the same cross section, a central, mid wing addition has been added to standard An-124 wings, an extra 2 pairs of landing gear wheels per side, deletion of the rear loading ramp, and redesigned tailplane to take into consideration a dorsal external load.

But you would have to think the overwhelmingly vast majority of the subsystems, substructure and components are identical. The An-225 leveraged massively off the An-124 for good reason....technical and cost reasons.
From China's point of view regarding technical design and knowhow, this sale, if true, represents a major step toward a large An-124 type aircraft, rather than the An-225, in my opinion.

JohninMK wrote:Rapidly followed by a denial. Possibly someone saw that the publicity could be personally dangerous.


Economic Pravda-Ukraine, August 31, 2016
Translated by Tom Winter, September 1, 2016

The State Enterprise Antonov has denied reports about the sale of the Antonov 225 to the Chinese company China Aerospace.

The press service of the State Enterprise Antonov reported this to Economic Pravda.

"Information about the selling ownership of the An-225 to the Chinese company China Aerospace does not correspond to reality. We are not betraying the homeland. More detailed commentary will come later..." said the press service.

At the same time on the state-owned enterprise's Facebook page, it was reported that on August 30 Antonov and Aerospace Industry Corporation of China (AICC) signed a cooperation agreement for the An-225 program.

"Thus, the parties expressed their intention for long-term cooperation, which provides, in the first stage, of construction of the second AN-225 Mriya, modernized, at the State Enterprise Antonov, and the delivery to the AICC, and in the second stage, joint serial production of An-225 in China under license," the report says.

It is also noted that both phases will be implemented under the terms of individual contracts.

Earlier, Chinese media reported that the State Enterprise Antonov and the Chinese company China Aerospace signed a cooperation agreement, under which China would have ownership of the giant aircraft AN-225 transporter, including the use of drawings and specifications of the aircraft.

http://www.fort-russ.com/2016/09/antonov-denies-report-about-selling.html

Russia probably put external pressure on the Chinese side...aka "Mo Antonov, no Almaz-Antey".

"Thus, the parties expressed their intention for long-term cooperation, which provides, in the first stage, of construction of the second AN-225 Mriya, modernized, at the State Enterprise Antonov, and the delivery to the AICC, and in the second stage, joint serial production of An-225 in China under license," the report says.http://www.fort-russ.com/2016/09/antonov-denies-report-about-selling.html

They recently signed licence production agreement for AN-178:

Chinese interest in the An-178 is noteworthy for two reasons. If successful, Antonov's partnership with Beijing A-Star in building and selling Chinese military An-178s would break the monopoly of state owned defense contractors like AVIC and NORINCO on PLA procurement. While a newcomer like Beijing A-Star would have to master the challenges of building a 60 ton cargo plane, Antonov's willingness to take that risk speaks to its commitment (and financial need) to sell the An-178 to foreign buyers like China. Antonov has also provided consulting and engineering support to Chinese cargo planes like the Y-20 and Y-9 in the past. http://www.popsci.com/chinese-company-bets-ukrainian-cargo-plane
Programs such as this, if successful, could lead to additional coproduction opportunities for Antonov with other countries - something management is fervently hoping for as it seeks to revitalize this long-storied aviation firm. http://www.malaysiasun.com/index.php/sid/247125699

The AN-225 will be useful to PRC in airlift/humanitarian assistance, etc. - 1 can deliver as much as ~4 IL-76s/Y-20s! http://sputniknews.com/asia/20160901/1044865061/ukrainian-aircraft-china-purchase.html
Can any1 explain why a modified AN-124 was not enough for the Buran, which is lighter & smaller (except the wingspan) than the Space Shuttle? http://www.k26.com/buran/Info/A_Comparison/Numerical_Facts_and_Figures/numerical_facts_and_figures.html  BTW, their engines have even less trust!- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonov_An-124_Ruslan#Specifications_.28An-124-100M-150.29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shuttle_Carrier_Aircraft#Specifications

[quote="Tsavo Lion"]

Can any1 explain why a modified AN-124 was not enough for the Buran, which is lighter & smaller (except the wingspan) than the Space Shuttle?

That's not really true. The Buran was marginally smaller and lighter, but not by very much, and teh main weight difference was that the Buran didn't carry the 3x main Hydrolox engines that the Shuttle needed.

As to why an upgraded Ruslan was required, the Buran empty mass of 42T was within the An-124 nominal capacity, but not when its an aircraft-sized assembly perched on the Ruslans upper exterior, and when its considerable aerodynamic drag needs to be managed. There is a world of difference between 42T skidded mass nestled in your cargo bay and a 42T aircraft passively sitting on your roof. An extra set of engines was required to overcome the extra drag and retain surplus power for contingency, so the Mriya was born...

Still, why a modified B-747 was adequate for comparable outside load?
 IMHO, unless AN-225 was also intended for other tasks, a slightly stretched AN-124 could be built for the Buran: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/an-124-300-proposal-could-double-ruslan-range-168196/

After serially producing the An-225.. , China could add cruise missile and drone launch racks to make it into a larger than B-52 style mother ship. China would likely develop the military portion of that project by themselves. China will also use new An-225s for movement of rockets and large parts to their new island space launch pad, when weather does not allow shipping. China will also use it for faster alternative transport of tanks and other heavy gear to South China Sea islands or to Tibet or other locations as the needs arise. http://www.nextbigfuture.com/2016/08/china-and-ukraine-will-build-more-of.html
...the Antonov organization has also investigating.. [& PRC could capitalize on] an improved hybrid of the An-124 and An-225 called the "An-124-300". It would feature the fuselage of the An-124 and the extended wing of the An-225, kitted up with modern avionics and engines. Since more powerful engines are now available, only four would be needed instead of six. The cargo floor would be extended, and a palletized loading system would be installed. It would have a maximum range of 11,500 kilometers (7,145 miles) with a 100 tonne (110 ton) cargo. Development costs were cited as less than a billion USD. http://www.airvectors.net/avantgt.html

A pic. of baseline AN-124 in PLAAF markings:

Because (I think), the Buran wasn't the single biggest load that the an-225 would transport.

And I don't know if the Buran in flight above the Antonov, she generated lift by herself, or otherwise, she generated inverted lift, in order to remain on the back of the A-225?? Or she was neutral?

It is rather obvious that the An-225 was not made for the Buran. But having it allowed its use for the transport of the Buran.

Or something like this: http://survincity.com/2013/02/multipurpose-aerospace-system-max/

Yes, w/o other loads AN-225 would be overkill, & also in the waning days of USSR the Antonov needed to justify its budget allocations. There was even 8-engine AN-325 proposed!

The second incomplete An-225 is somewhat different than its older active companion. Instead of the twin-tail setup used by the active An-225, the second Cossack has just a single vertical stabilizer. The first aircraft was built with such a tailplane to afford pilots greater control authority when carrying Buran on the Cosscak’s back. A strategic airlifter, however, doesn’t really need the same allowances. The unfinished Cossack also has a rear cargo door, and will probably feature improved high-bypass turbofan engines as well as a glass cockpit. It’s unclear just how China will use the new An-225, however, considering that only one will be completed and the flying/maintenance costs will be incredibly high. It’s also possible that the Chinese government intends to use the An-225 as a testbed, similar to how they’ve utilized their aircraft carrier, to develop concepts and to create heavy strategic airlift aircraft of their own, going forward. The Chinese government aims to have the Cossack completed and airworthy by 2019 at the latest. https://tacairnet.com/2016/08/31/china-aims-to-build-a-second-an-225-cossack-in-cooperation-with-antonov/

Antonov explained that the agreement they have with China is on studying the potential for finishing the 2nd airframe.
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2114029.html comment: http://csef.ru/en/politica-i-geopolitica/416/an-225-uletaet-na-vostok-kak-kiev-prodaetsya-kitayu-za-besczenok-7001