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    Russia - Egypt military contracts

    GarryB
    GarryB


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    Post  GarryB Sun Jan 02, 2022 4:52 am

    It is also reminding stupid Russians who think their future is with the west against the rest of the world who their enemy really is... they want Russians to suffer in poverty.

    On tv they are having a replay of all the Seinfield episodes... which I have never really watched because I don't find him to be funny... but an episode happened to be on the other day and I think they had just sold an idea for a TV show and were offered a private jet they could fly anywhere they liked... remember this is from the 1990s... and each character suggested a place they could go, and the woman suggested Russia, to which the three men dismissed it as "too bleak"... that is what they thought of Russia in the 1990s... a broken country not worth visiting for free.

    When it is not an enemy they aren't interested.... now the US is making it an enemy you can't get a visa to go because there is no embassy there now,

    I think Russia growing and developing independently and slowly getting kicked out of international organisations run by the US or at least influenced by the US is good for Russia and actually the rest of the world because the alternative systems they have to set up to work with the rest of the world wont be controlled by the west... which is something a lot of countries are looking for but wont say out loud in fear of being attacked.

    With Russia having an alternative to SWIFT it means if they get kicked off SWIFT then all the countries that want Russian gas or Russian weapons or Russian grain or Russian minerals or products will have to join the Russian alternative to SWIFT... and that includes the US if they want Russian oil and gas... which they do, and Russian Titanium to make their aircraft etc etc... which they do.

    Essentially kicking Russia off SWIFT would damage SWIFT more than it damages Russia and for the rest of the world it gives them an alternative payment system that the US cannot monitor and spy on them with.

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    jhelb
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    Post  jhelb Sun Jan 02, 2022 11:38 am

    GarryB wrote:It is also reminding stupid Russians who think their future is with the west against the rest of the world who their enemy really is... they want Russians to suffer in poverty.
    A large number of Russians are pro West. That doesn't make them stupid. Millions of Russians live in the West and are extremely successful.

    Rather no Russian ever migrates to Africa and Asia. Not even to China and Japan.
    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Sun Jan 02, 2022 4:29 pm

    jhelb wrote:Rather no Russian ever migrates to Africa and Asia.

    I personally know a few that moved to both for work or pleasure
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Jan 03, 2022 4:27 am

    A large number of Russians are pro West. That doesn't make them stupid. Millions of Russians live in the West and are extremely successful.

    Have seen some of your comments about India and Indian relations with the west... a west you claim despises India... is it really so hard for you to understand the west does not like any non west group and only uses them for its own growth and development, while seeing those non western groups as potential rivals to be "contained" and handled to quote a German politician "from a position of strength".

    They want to be able to tell you what to do, they don't want a partnership or mutually beneficial relationship... you don't need to be in a position of strength and power for such things... they want control of your resources and you get to sit at their feet picking up scraps on the floor if you are good.

    It does make them stupid.

    The people in power in the west don't like Russians... they will use their oil and gas and their metallurgy and their skills, but they wont welcome them in to the family or treat them with real respect till they lose that accent and can accurately mimic a westerner... ie get rid of everything that makes them Russian.

    They are already rewriting their history books... Russia equals the Soviet Union and Stalin and was as bad if not worse than Nazi Germany under Hitler...

    How long before it was Stalin that got Hitler into power in Germany... it wasn't the wests fault at all...
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    mnztr


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    Post  mnztr Thu Jan 13, 2022 5:57 am

    News is that the Su-35 deal with Egypt is cancelled. Apparenly they tested the SU against the Rafale and the SU was inferior. Esp the radar. This explains why Egypt signed for another 30 Rafales. There is some conflicting reports so its hard to see if this is definitive. Also its not clear if the Rafale purchase includes the Meteor missile. If Egypt did cancel the deal, it would be pretty funny if Russia sells them to Iran. More US sanctions blowing back on themselves.
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:10 am

    mnztr wrote:News is that the Su-35 deal with Egypt is cancelled. Apparenly they tested the SU against the Rafale and the SU was inferior. Esp the radar. This explains why Egypt signed for another 30 Rafales. There is some conflicting reports so its hard to see if this is definitive. Also its not clear if the Rafale purchase includes the Meteor missile. If Egypt did cancel the deal, it would be pretty funny if Russia sells them to Iran. More US sanctions blowing back on themselves.

    That would be interesting especially given the Irbis e is more powerful, has longer detection range. Irbis E proved to be about 395km for a 2m^2 target while the Rafale is about 298km. Which isn't something to laugh at either.

    But it's probably Egypt excuse not to get sanctioned.

    Either that or Egypt figured the performance are similar so stick with what they already got get a few more and make claims so that they don't have to pay Russia for making a different decision at last minute. Very unprofessional but been done a million times.

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    mnztr


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    Post  mnztr Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:36 am

    Apparenly the Russian radar was easily jammed by the Rafales EW. But the fact is Egypt has a shitload of American equipment and the US can really screw them. Its kinda poetic that the Su-35 goes to Iran. I hope Russia gives them the good shit to hang on the wings. Apparently this is part if a 10B oil for weapons deal and the Iranian fleet will be upgraded and overhauled with Russian assistance. Su-24s, Mig -29 SU-25 ETC.
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:25 am

    mnztr wrote:Apparenly the Russian radar was easily jammed by the Rafales EW. But the fact is Egypt has a shitload of American equipment and the US can really screw them. Its kinda poetic that the Su-35 goes to Iran. I hope Russia gives them the good shit to hang on the wings. Apparently this is part if a 10B oil for weapons deal and the Iranian fleet will be upgraded and overhauled with Russian assistance. Su-24s, Mig -29 SU-25 ETC.

    Was it? I doubt it somehow, but then again, have strong enough EW suite and you can jam nearly any airborn radar. As said, power output has to exceed that of power of the radar. And Irbis E is about 20KW of raw power. So the RBE radar of the Rafale will be jammed even easier. Hence why the jets are supposed to have ECCM capabilities and if Egypt doesn't get those on the Su-35's, well, they are pretty retarded.

    But you are right on the rest, the EU and US can make Egypts military useless.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:42 pm

    That story is few months old and comes from a polish source. It's not reliable.

    Su-35 was never in egypt to test them against the rafales. And russians would have never used their own su-35's radars against a Rafale because french are known to register any radar signal they can for their database. Even US complained that during exercise rafales keep doing that.

    Egypt not wanting the su-35 is just an issue with money.

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    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:24 pm

    Isos wrote:That story is few months old and comes from a polish source. It's not reliable.

    Su-35 was never in egypt to test them against the rafales. And russians would have never used their own su-35's radars against a Rafale because french are known to register any radar signal they can for their database. Even US complained that during exercise rafales keep doing that.

    Egypt not wanting the su-35 is just an issue with money.

    I figured as much. Thanks Isos for clearing the air.
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    Post  AlfaT8 Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:29 pm

    Aah, the oh so reliable polish sources strike again.
    News of any Su-35s in egypt would have been detected long ago, but nothing of the sort happened.

    The Egyptions are trying to keep things balanced with their western and eastern weapon purchases.

    Its clear that they are tryng to improve their capabilities by purchasing russian fighters but they cant go all in on Russia becuase of financial and more importantly political constraints.

    They have to keep pandering to the west to some extent in order to not get bombed.

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    TMA1
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    Post  TMA1 Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:33 pm

    mnztr wrote:News is that the Su-35 deal with Egypt is cancelled. Apparenly they tested the SU against the Rafale and the SU was inferior. Esp the radar. This explains why Egypt signed for another 30 Rafales. There is some conflicting reports so its hard to see if this is definitive. Also its not clear if the Rafale purchase includes the Meteor missile. If Egypt did cancel the deal, it would be pretty funny if Russia sells them to Iran. More US sanctions blowing back on themselves.

    Where did you get this info? Globaldefensecorp, notorious antirussian shill site, said the su-35 was pitted against rafale and the EW suite totally blinded the su-35 bars (doesnt carry bars) radar. The whole thing is ridiculous from start to finish. Where did you get your info? If legit I would love to see the sources. I fear though there is nonsense afoot though as your story sounds too much the same.

    Still I could be wrong. Like I said pls show the sources if you still got em.

    Edit: okay now I am 95 percent positive after seeing the next post you made that you got this info from globaldefensecorp or another source using globaldefensecorp as a source. I think if the deal was cancelled it had more to do with trying to ingratiate themselves with the west and not get Arab Springed or CAATSA'd as another poster said before me. It is hard for a nation like Egypt to balance relationships with major powers. Thry must be careful not to go beyond balancing relationships to burning bridges thru diplomatic/political machinations. There is a lot to it we dont know. I think Egypt might be upset by Russias doings eith Ethiopia but I'm not sure on this.

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    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:49 pm

    TMA1 wrote:
    mnztr wrote:News is that the Su-35 deal with Egypt is cancelled. Apparenly they tested the SU against the Rafale and the SU was inferior. Esp the radar. This explains why Egypt signed for another 30 Rafales. There is some conflicting reports so its hard to see if this is definitive. Also its not clear if the Rafale purchase includes the Meteor missile. If Egypt did cancel the deal, it would be pretty funny if Russia sells them to Iran. More US sanctions blowing back on themselves.

    Where did you get this info? Globaldefensecorp, notorious antirussian shill site, said the su-35 was pitted against rafale and the EW suite totally blinded the su-35 bars (doesnt carry bars) radar. The whole thing is ridiculous from start to finish. Where did you get your info? If legit I would love to see the sources. I fear though there is nonsense afoot though as your story sounds too much the same.

    Still I could be wrong. Like I said pls show the sources if you still got em.

    Edit: okay now I am 95 percent positive after seeing the next post you made that you got this info from globaldefensecorp or another source using globaldefensecorp as a source. I think if the deal was cancelled it had more to do with trying to ingratiate themselves with the west and not get Arab Springed or CAATSA'd as another poster said before me. It is hard for a nation like Egypt to balance relationships with major powers. Thry must be careful not to go beyond balancing relationships to burning bridges thru diplomatic/political machinations. There is a lot to it we dont know. I think Egypt might be upset by Russias doings eith Ethiopia but I'm not sure on this.

    Yeah, if the article you claim says bars radar, then they can't get basics right and it's shit. As others said, the Su-35's being seen in Egypt would have media all over it but nothing. And they obviously didn't fly and test em out in Russia with rafales lol.
    Broski
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    Post  Broski Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:48 pm

    Egypt will always play second or third fiddle to israel and Saudi Arabia as far as western military equipment is concerned and they're content with remaining there, I don't see the problem.
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    mnztr


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    Post  mnztr Thu Jan 13, 2022 5:37 pm

    here is one of the articles:

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/pauliddon/2021/12/30/is-iran-really-about-to-buy-russian-su-35se-fighter-jets/?sh=3467f9ac204d

    In regard to jamming, its not just a matter of radar power. And of course its not easy to jam Irbis at close range. But perhaps the Rafale can combine its radar with jammers to increase the jamming output. Its also the sophistication of the approach that matters.
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    Post  mnztr Thu Jan 13, 2022 5:41 pm

    I have seen some pics of Egyptian SU-35 being ferried to Egypt. Were they fakes? Egypt has Rafale so they can conduct their own test. It would be easy for SU's to arrive at a Egyptian base unnoticed to anyone except satellites. But they could easily fly them in at night and put them in a hangar.
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:43 pm

    And then returned them?

    No, I don't think so.
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    Post  mnztr Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:42 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:And then returned them?

    No, I don't think so.


    yes and asked United to remarket them. Of course there will be penalties etc. Russia is pragmatic. They know how much leverage the US has over Egypt. The alternative is Egypt keeps them and lets the USA pick them apart. That said we know Russia export variants are never the best stuff. If France offered them the Meteor with the second buy, then their reason for buying the SU-35 is diminished. Maybe Russia was receptive to the idea as it allows them to deliver direct blowback to CAATSA. Kill our sale to Egypt, now Iran has them. USA USA USA!!!
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:52 pm

    Actually russia planed to deliver them unoticed like the S-300 and tors some years ago.

    Two journalists were arrested for divulgating the su-35 contracts for Egypt and sentanced for espionnage.

    Egypt economy is relying too much on USA and other US arab state proxies.

    Those planes never reached egyptian soil.

    They are buying more Rafales only because Sisi doesn't trust US at all and need new fighters to replace the f-16 fleet. Its meteor is also a pain in the ass for israel. The mig-29M are delivered with what seems to be the weaker rvv ae and 80km range which isn't enough for them IMO.

    Su-35 may have came with r-37M and rvv-sd but also future r-77M.

    The economic sanction imposed by US would be too hard to sustain for them thus they refused them. But that's good Iran will make a better use of such planes.

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    Post  limb Thu Jan 13, 2022 11:45 pm

    TMA1 wrote:
    mnztr wrote:News is that the Su-35 deal with Egypt is cancelled. Apparenly they tested the SU against the Rafale and the SU was inferior. Esp the radar. This explains why Egypt signed for another 30 Rafales. There is some conflicting reports so its hard to see if this is definitive. Also its not clear if the Rafale purchase includes the Meteor missile. If Egypt did cancel the deal, it would be pretty funny if Russia sells them to Iran. More US sanctions blowing back on themselves.

    Where did you get this info? Globaldefensecorp, notorious antirussian shill site, said the su-35 was pitted against rafale and the EW suite totally blinded the su-35 bars (doesnt carry bars) radar. The whole thing is ridiculous from start to finish. Where did you get your info? If legit I would love to see the sources. I fear though there is nonsense afoot though as your story sounds too much the same.

    Still I could be wrong. Like I said pls show the sources if you still got em.

    Edit: okay now I am 95 percent positive after seeing the next post you made that you got this info from globaldefensecorp or another source using globaldefensecorp as a source. I think if the deal was cancelled it had more to do with trying to ingratiate themselves with the west and not get Arab Springed or CAATSA'd as another poster said before me. It is hard for a nation like Egypt to balance relationships with major powers. Thry must be careful not to go beyond balancing relationships to burning bridges thru diplomatic/political machinations. There is a lot to it we dont know. I think Egypt might be upset by Russias doings eith Ethiopia but I'm not sure on this.

    Does this give a precedent that caatsa is working and that the russian military export is getting strangled? Does this mean that countries not already under sanctions from the US won't buy russian equipment anymore?
    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Thu Jan 13, 2022 11:56 pm

    [quote="limb"]
    TMA1 wrote:
    Does this give a precedent that caatsa is working and that the russian military export is getting strangled? Does this mean that countries not already under sanctions from the US won't buy russian equipment  anymore?

    Combine this decision with that of Indonesia and probably others we do not know about and the answer will be yes. But only for customers that are economically or politically vulnerable or in the pockets of the US i.e. the corrupt who value their lives/bank accounts.

    There are however many other customers who are more independent who have the strength or bloody mindedness to ignore it.

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    Post  mnztr Fri Jan 14, 2022 2:27 am

    limb wrote:
    TMA1 wrote:
    mnztr wrote:News is that the Su-35 deal with Egypt is cancelled. Apparenly they tested the SU against the Rafale and the SU was inferior. Esp the radar. This explains why Egypt signed for another 30 Rafales. There is some conflicting reports so its hard to see if this is definitive. Also its not clear if the Rafale purchase includes the Meteor missile. If Egypt did cancel the deal, it would be pretty funny if Russia sells them to Iran. More US sanctions blowing back on themselves.

    Where did you get this info? Globaldefensecorp, notorious antirussian shill site, said the su-35 was pitted against rafale and the EW suite totally blinded the su-35 bars (doesnt carry bars) radar. The whole thing is ridiculous from start to finish. Where did you get your info? If legit I would love to see the sources. I fear though there is nonsense afoot though as your story sounds too much the same.

    Still I could be wrong. Like I said pls show the sources if you still got em.

    Edit: okay now I am 95 percent positive after seeing the next post you made that you got this info from globaldefensecorp or another source using globaldefensecorp as a source. I think if the deal was cancelled it had more to do with trying to ingratiate themselves with the west and not get Arab Springed or CAATSA'd as another poster said before me. It is hard for a nation like Egypt to balance relationships with major powers. Thry must be careful not to go beyond balancing relationships to burning bridges thru diplomatic/political machinations. There is a lot to it we dont know. I think Egypt might be upset by Russias doings eith Ethiopia but I'm not sure on this.


    Does this give a precedent that caatsa is working and that the russian military export is getting strangled? Does this mean that countries not already under sanctions from the US won't buy russian equipment  anymore?

    No question CAATSA hurts, but the US will only apply it to weak nations. China, India do what the want. Turkey getting the shaft. INdonesia can't take the risk
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    Post  mnztr Fri Jan 14, 2022 2:44 am

    The reason for applying CAATSA is the US fear that the SU-radar can spot F-35's. i.e the same reason why it will not even sell AMMRAM to Egypt to this day. - Ensuring Egypt can get swatted by Israel if necessary. Meteor was included one of 2 ways, either the US relented (unlikely as they would have just forced Egypt to buy Ammram for its F-16s) or MBDA subbed US components for European components so the they could tell the US to sod off.

    I think the stories about the SU radar being easily jammed are not true .That said the Indian SU-30 upgrade is using a Indian sourced ASEA radar and not the Irbis. That is the plan anyway..which may changes 10000x in the next year
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    Post  GarryB Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:10 am

    If Egypt wants a long range AAM there is always the RVV-BD... according to the makers of the missile:

    The missile is designed to arm export aircraft versions of MiG and Su type. May be adapted to aircraft of non-Russian makes. The missile is stored, energized in carriage flight, fired or jettisoned from launch aircraft by АКУ-410-1 or АКУ-620 eject launcher.

    Does this give a precedent that caatsa is working and that the russian military export is getting strangled? Does this mean that countries not already under sanctions from the US won't buy russian equipment anymore?

    Would be a case of teh US crossing the line which in the current climate gives Putin all the ammunition and reasoning to cross lines Israel and the US have probably asked him to respect in the region... this should be interesting.

    There are however many other customers who are more independent who have the strength or bloody mindedness to ignore it.

    And as a reward for their hard headedness and independence might get access to equipment and weapons the US and the west really would prefer they didn't have...

    That said the Indian SU-30 upgrade is using a Indian sourced ASEA radar and not the Irbis

    Is that because it is better or because they want to fund a domestic independent source for the technology?

    The Chinese seem happy with their Su-35s, as do the Russian AF.
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    Post  miketheterrible Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:52 am

    India doesn't have an airborn aesa radar in production while Russia does.

    So no, it won't get such an upgrade unless India gets N036 for su-30 if the weight and design will work.  Otherwise, India doesn't and won't.

    India uses Israeli radar for their Tejas for instance.

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