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    Russia - Egypt military contracts

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    Post  Book. on Wed May 27, 2015 5:21 am

    Egypt the Tor Pecho2 Buk

    Russia it monk model

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    Post  Book. on Wed May 27, 2015 9:27 am

    Russia sell monk kit

    for safety
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    Post  GarryB on Wed May 27, 2015 11:50 am

    Lets not fool ourselves... Egypt would only need MiG-35s if it was going to be taking on Israel and Saudi Arabia... and I don't see either happening any time soon.

    Buying MiG-29M2s makes a lot more sense... they would be ready for production now, they would be cheaper now, and they use the same airframe that the MiG-35 uses so the opportunity exists to later upgrade to MiG-35 level when the AESA modules get cheaper and the other technology matures.

    The more important aspect will be what sort of ordinance will be purchased... R-73s and R-77s now and upgraded missiles in the near future like Morfei and R-77M and RVV-BD would make it a very potent fighter and purchases of a range of air to ground weapons would also be beneficial.
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    Post  house200888 on Wed May 27, 2015 4:24 pm

    GarryB wrote:Lets not fool ourselves... Egypt would only need MiG-35s if it was going to be taking on Israel and Saudi Arabia... and I don't see either happening any time soon.

    Buying MiG-29M2s makes a lot more sense... they would be ready for production now, they would be cheaper now, and they use the same airframe that the MiG-35 uses so the opportunity exists to later upgrade to MiG-35 level when the AESA modules get cheaper and the other technology matures.

    The more important aspect will be what sort of ordinance will be purchased... R-73s and R-77s now and upgraded missiles in the near future like Morfei and R-77M and RVV-BD would make it a very potent fighter and purchases of a range of air to ground weapons would also be beneficial.

    You are wrong my friend
    In fact Egypt is buying weapons to build a new modern and strong army
    You will see in the coming days that it is MIG-35 the same version that Russia signed a deal for . Rumors say that it will be equipped with Italian radar and avionics (may be VIXEN 1000E AESA radar or a variation of it)

    Another deal about KA-52 will be signed soon . the CEO of the Russian company hinted about it yesterday in his visit to Egypt (I will add a video and Arabic link about that)

    Even the Armata is offered to Egypt (I will add an Arabic link of the Russian industry minister during his recent visit to Egypt . You can use Google translation ) . Some time ago egypt was offered producing of t-90sm

    Another deals that is under negotiations now :
    SU-35
    Iskander
    Bastion


    http://arabic.sputniknews.com/arab_world/20150526/1014404353.html?utm_source=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2F&utm_medium=short_url&utm_content=pr9&utm_campaign=URL_shortening

    http://arabic.sputniknews.com/russia/20150526/1014397781.html#ixzz3bEr2XXM5

    http://gate.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/14/213/665248/%D8%A5%D9%82%D8%AA%D8%B5%D8%A7%D8%AF/%D8%AA%D8%AC%D8%A7%D8%B1%D8%A9-%D9%88%D8%B5%D9%86%D8%A7%D8%B9%D8%A9/%D8%B4%D8%B1%D9%83%D8%A9-%D8%B1%D9%88%D8%B3%D9%8A%D8%A7-%D9%84%D8%B5%D9%86%D8%A7%D8%B9%D8%A9-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B7%D8%A7%D8%A6%D8%B1%D8%A7%D8%AA-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B9%D9%85%D9%88%D8%AF%D9%8A%D8%A9-%D8%AA%D8%A8%D8%AF%D9%8A-%D8%A7%D8%B3%D8%AA%D8%B9%D8%AF%D8%A7%D8%AF%D9%87%D8%A7.aspx

    http://arabic.rt.com/news/784088-%D8%B1%D9%88%D8%B3%D9%8A%D8%A7-%D9%85%D8%B5%D8%B1-%D8%B5%D9%81%D9%82%D8%A7%D8%AA-%D8%A7%D9%82%D8%AA%D8%B5%D8%A7%D8%AF-%D8%A3%D8%B3%D9%84%D8%AD%D8%A9-%D8%B7%D8%A7%D8%A6%D8%B1%D8%A7%D8%AA-%D8%B3%D9%88%D8%A8%D8%B1%D8%AC%D8%AA-100-%D8%B3%D9%88%D8%AE%D9%88%D9%8A/

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    Post  Werewolf on Wed May 27, 2015 4:43 pm

    I really hope not. Nothing against egypt itself but due the meddling of US it is unstable and i do not want latest technology in hands of US collaborateurs. The US is far behind russia in some of those technologies tanks without doubt, helicopters without doubt and not to mention whatever ADS systems will be dealed should never land in such hands not even export or monkey models since even the T-72 Monkey Models were better than M60 counterparts in Gulf War.
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    Post  mack8 on Wed May 27, 2015 5:12 pm

    Completely disagree, on the contrary, if Egypt wants to modernize it's army with russian gear, let them have anything they want. Great for the russian MIC, more money for the russian MIC for research and development, and having a strong foothold in Egypt at least offers the possibility of an increasingly closer relationship in the future (both military and economic), remember  a decade ago there were hardly any significant military relations between the two countries. Sisi may now be sponsored (allegedly) by saudi and GCC money and his participation in the Yemen mess may be because of that, but there may be a time when things would change (like always in ME). Mind you, come to think of it, i was reading recently an article about reported disagreements between Sisi and the KSA and GCC scumbags, so watch this space. I am sure that a proud and big country as Egypt and Sisi himself would love to be the top dogs in the ME rather than the perfidous KSA, so the "friends" of today may be the enemies of tomorrow.

    In fact Egypt is buying weapons to build a new modern and strong army
    You will see in the coming days that it is MIG-35 the same version that Russia signed a deal for . Rumors say that it will be equipped with Italian radar and avionics (may be VIXEN 1000E AESA radar or a variation of it)

    Another deal about KA-52 will be signed soon . the CEO of the Russian company hinted about it yesterday in his visit to Egypt (I will add a video and Arabic link about that)

    Even the Armata is offered to Egypt (I will add an Arabic link of the Russian industry minister during his recent visit to Egypt . You can use Google translation ) . Some time ago egypt was offered producing of t-90sm

    Another deals that is under negotiations now :
    SU-35
    Iskander
    Bastion

    Like i said before, if all these deals would come to fruition, that would be a radical increase in Egypt's armed forces capabilities. Literally no one would surpass that among the arab countries, including KSA. Smile
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    Post  sepheronx on Wed May 27, 2015 5:21 pm

    Hopefully KRET will get the sales to Egypt and not Italy as they will need the money to improve their AESA. I think they survive alone from MiG-29 deals.

    If egypt gets Su-35's, they would effectively have best radar and air superiority fighter in the middle east. Regardless what some believe is the american radar ranges, even Carl Kopp states it is the best in performance.
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    Post  GarryB on Thu May 28, 2015 10:53 am

    You are wrong my friend
    In fact Egypt is buying weapons to build a new modern and strong army
    You will see in the coming days that it is MIG-35 the same version that Russia signed a deal for . Rumors say that it will be equipped with Italian radar and avionics (may be VIXEN 1000E AESA radar or a variation of it)

    I have been wrong plenty of times before, but what you are saying doesn't make sense to me...

    You say the version Egypt is negotiating is the same as the one being developed for Russia, but then you say it will have an Italian Radar... are you suggesting the Russians will buy their MiG-35s with Italian radars and avionics?

    The current military sanctions means that is not even possible.

    Even the Armata is offered to Egypt (I will add an Arabic link of the Russian industry minister during his recent visit to Egypt . You can use Google translation ) . Some time ago egypt was offered producing of t-90sm

    They might be offering armata, but they wont be exporting it till at least 2022 or later to anyone.

    I rather suspect Egypt will be making late model T-90s themselves... which are excellent vehicles in themselves, but armata wont be for export to anyone for some time.

    Another deals that is under negotiations now :
    SU-35
    Iskander
    Bastion

    A very expensive shopping list... I would love to see them in Egyptian service at some stage... but they are not cheap...

    Of course the advantage of slightly less leading edge equipment... like MiG-29M2 vs MiG-35 is that you have some very clear upgrade path options with the former and the chances of local production greatly increase... imagine MiG-29M2 production in Iraq for Iraq, but also for Iran and perhaps even Syria if they want them.... offering maintainence facilities for all three countries...
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    Post  house200888 on Fri May 29, 2015 12:34 pm

    Like i said before, if all these deals would come to fruition, that would be a radical increase in Egypt's armed forces capabilities. Literally no one would surpass that among the arab countries, including KSA. Smile

    there are other deals with other countries also (though russia is our main military ally now)

    there are the done deal with france 24 rafale + 1 fremm (another deal is under negotiation now for the same items and numbers )
    4 gowind corvette (with option of 2 more) with technology transfer

    with germany 4 type 209 submarines (delivery begins next year)

    with china a big deal is under negotiations . but information about it is very little . rumors say it may include
    HJ-12
    yuan class submarines
    Type 054A
    ZDK-03
    more Wing Loong

    as i said egypt is making revolutionary changes in its army
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    Post  house200888 on Fri May 29, 2015 12:53 pm

    You say the version Egypt is negotiating is the same as the one being developed for Russia, but then you say it will have an Italian Radar... are you suggesting the Russians will buy their MiG-35s with Italian radars and avionics?

    i think what i said was clear enough  Smile . u said that egypt is getting mig-29m2 not mig-35 . and i told u that it will be the same fighters that russia signed a deal for except for some italian avionics . and let me tell u also that the deal is for 48 not 46 fighters . and u will hear that when the deal is signed officially>

    but i want to correct that the radar will be russian (kret) not italian . but other unidentified avionics will be italian

    They might be offering armata, but they wont be exporting it till at least 2022 or later to anyone.

    I rather suspect Egypt will be making late model T-90s themselves... which are excellent vehicles in themselves, but armata wont be for export to anyone for some time.

    yes i agree with u about that , but not as long as 2022
    yesterday ceo of Ural Vagon Zavod (UVZ) said :

    "We seek through negotiations with the Egyptian Ministry of Defence to modernise Russian weapons and military mechanisms present in Egypt since the 1960s, provided by the Soviet Union at that time"
    "He further mentioned that the Russian ArmsPromotion Authority organises campaigns for the export of Russian military products to many countries around the world, including Egypt. UVZ aims to establish a military equipment factory in Egypt. Sienko estimated the company’s future investments in Egypt at hundreds of millions of dollars."

    http://www.armyrecognition.com/may_2015_global_defense_security_news_uk/uralvagonzavod_of_russia_negotiates_with_egypt_to_nationalise_military_production_sites_12805154.html
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    Post  mack8 on Fri May 29, 2015 3:55 pm

    with germany 4 type 209 submarines (delivery begins next year)
    Considering that unfortunately Germany is blackmailed through a variety of means to concede to israeli interests, is the U-209 deal certain to go forward?

    Anyway, very interesting the list of signed and pending contracts, do you have a similar resume for such contract with Russia, i can think of the Buk-M2 and Tor-M2 being confirmed, two S-300VM systems apparently pending, 48 MiG-35 and some Ka-52 allegedly to be signed soon, plus some MRAPs and/or armoured trucks confirmed* (i can't remember exactly what type they are). Any additional details regrading these and other items i may have missed, and numbers where applicable? Thank you.

    PS: Oh and i missed this
    Another deals that is under negotiations now :
    SU-35
    Iskander
    Bastion

    *PPS Actually not sure if any of the MRAPs/armoured trucks are russian or built with russian cooperation or not, any details on that? Some images here:
    https://www.russiadefence.net/t1462p90-egyptian-ground-forces
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    Post  house200888 on Fri May 29, 2015 7:31 pm

    Considering that unfortunately Germany is blackmailed through a variety of means to concede to israeli interests, is the U-209 deal certain to go forward?

    that was the case before . but 3 months ago it was confirmed (2+2) deal
    http://www.neues-deutschland.de/artikel/961729.u-boote-fuer-die-welt.html


    Anyway, very interesting the list of signed and pending contracts, do you have a similar resume for such contract with Russia, i can think of the Buk-M2 and Tor-M2 being confirmed, two S-300VM systems apparently pending, 48 MiG-35 and some Ka-52 allegedly to be signed soon, plus some MRAPs and/or armoured trucks confirmed* (i can't remember exactly what type they are). Any additional details regrading these and other items i may have missed, and numbers where applicable? Thank you.

    it is 3 s-300vm systems under delivery
    also the kornet is confirmed
    also t-90sm producing is under negotiations (with interest of the armata)

    the problem in our deals with russia and china is that we always dont know every thing about them . we suddenly saw buk-m2 and tor-m2 in front of us . we also suddenly heard about armed drones used to fight terrorists in sinai then we found that they are wing loong . it is even more difficult with numbers .


    *PPS Actually not sure if any of the MRAPs/armoured trucks are russian or built with russian cooperation or not, any details on that? Some images here

    i actually dont know any armored vehicles with russia recently

    Russia - Egypt military contracts - Page 10 10446030_544657295635469_3658977853222452860_o

    in this image the two left vehicles are called panethera . the upper right is called riva (all south african origin produced in egypt with a license .. the upper left vehicle based in the chassis of kraz 6322 )

    the lower right is egyptian 100% called temsah (alligator in arabic)

    Russia - Egypt military contracts - Page 10 1%20(1)

    Russia - Egypt military contracts - Page 10 BzFpuheCMAEKizi
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    Post  mack8 on Fri May 29, 2015 9:56 pm

    Thank you for your help House200888, and yeah i did burned my brains a bit trying to figure out the MRAPs, i got the Panthera T6 and K10 and i was almost certain the third one was a Reva, but couldn't figure out the Temsah. Smile

    Looking forward to see some of this russian gear during the Suez Canal reconstruction inauguration.
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    Post  mutantsushi on Fri May 29, 2015 11:29 pm

    house200888 wrote:
    You say the version Egypt is negotiating is the same as the one being developed for Russia, but then you say it will have an Italian Radar... are you suggesting the Russians will buy their MiG-35s with Italian radars and avionics?
    i think what i said was clear enough  Smile . u said that egypt is getting mig-29m2 not mig-35 . and i told u that it will be the same fighters that russia signed a deal for except for some italian avionics . and let me tell u also that the deal is for 48 not 46 fighters . and u will hear that when the deal is signed officially>
    but i want to correct that the radar will be russian (kret) not italian . but other unidentified avionics will be italian
    Yeah, I was confused by your "same version as Russia/ with Italian radar + avio" line.  Smile
    Perhaps that type of deal was considered at one point, e.g. when MMRCA MiG-35 appeared to be what was on offer/ when Russian procurement of MiG-35 wasn't clear,
    but MiG-35 has progressed since then, with Russia seemingly forgoing the full upgrade in it's next batch in favor of fully developing a stronger version,
    which seems to include radar tech on par with PAK-FA (in general tech, if not power rating, side arrays etc), albeit would be export downgraded for Egypt...
    That should put it well beyond MMRCA model as well as purported Selex radar, simply because otherwise why would Russia bother delaying it?
    (likely as well as other avionics/sensor/self-protection upgrades... DIRCM ala PAKFA?)
    Since Russia basically "just recently" made that decision re: MiG-35 "upgrade", I don't really see how any solid decision could be made re: integrating other avionics etc,
    if the exact fit and capabilities of standard Russian MiG-35 (Mk. III?) could not even be known exactly...
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    Post  sepheronx on Fri May 29, 2015 11:34 pm

    Going with the Italian radar will result in the same as the Zhuk radars. It will be underpowered and would be an expensive waste. Unless it comes with a new generator/APU unit that can help power it.
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    Post  GarryB on Sat May 30, 2015 12:41 pm

    u said that egypt is getting mig-29m2 not mig-35

    No I didn't.

    I said they should get the MiG-29m2 and I gave reasons for that... it would be ready much faster, would be much much cheaper and with proven components rather than brand new expensive and untested in combat systems.

    yes i agree with u about that , but not as long as 2022
    yesterday ceo of Ural Vagon Zavod (UVZ) said :

    "We seek through negotiations with the Egyptian Ministry of Defence to modernise Russian weapons and military mechanisms present in Egypt since the 1960s, provided by the Soviet Union at that time"
    "He further mentioned that the Russian ArmsPromotion Authority organises campaigns for the export of Russian military products to many countries around the world, including Egypt. UVZ aims to establish a military equipment factory in Egypt. Sienko estimated the company’s future investments in Egypt at hundreds of millions of dollars."

    Modernising generally involves upgrades of existing types rather than the introduction of brand new systems. I rather suspect what he is talking about... especially in terms of local production would be T-90s rather than Armata.

    Just my opinion.


    Going with the Italian radar will result in the same as the Zhuk radars. It will be underpowered and would be an expensive waste. Unless it comes with a new generator/APU unit that can help power it.

    Don't you think it would be logical to suspect that the delay by the Russian Air Force in introducing the MiG-35 (ie getting the first few aircraft being MiG-29M2s instead) would be to thrash out the problems with power generation on board the aircraft?

    They are developing an AESA radar do you think they will accept reduced performance and not bother upgrading the generator that generates power from the engines in flight?
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    Post  sepheronx on Sat May 30, 2015 6:16 pm

    The problem is House was pointing that it was the aesa that was the issue, but I pointed out they use same T/R modules as ehat NIIP uses for their N036 radar and with having roughly 1500 t/r modules, it give pretty much exactly same performance of other aesa radars with same number of modules. Then, the ceo of kret in one of the articles from 2009 stated that the t/r modules are rated to run at 5W each but are only running at 3 - 3.5. That gives the indication that the engines are either incapable of powering whatever apu the MiG's use, or it is the APU'd thenselves. Which any other AESA will have same issue.
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    Post  house200888 on Sat May 30, 2015 8:53 pm


    Yeah, I was confused by your "same version as Russia/ with Italian radar + avio" line.

    then i am sorry for that . i thought i was clear Smile

    Perhaps that type of deal was considered at one point, e.g. when MMRCA MiG-35 appeared to be what was on offer/ when Russian procurement of MiG-35 wasn't clear,
    but MiG-35 has progressed since then, with Russia seemingly forgoing the full upgrade in it's next batch in favor of fully developing a stronger version,

    yes russian said several times that the new mig-35 is totally different than that of mmrca

    which seems to include radar tech on par with PAK-FA (in general tech, if not power rating, side arrays etc), albeit would be export downgraded for Egypt...
    That should put it well beyond MMRCA model as well as purported Selex radar, simply because otherwise why would Russia bother delaying it?
    (likely as well as other avionics/sensor/self-protection upgrades... DIRCM ala PAKFA?)
    Since Russia basically "just recently" made that decision re: MiG-35 "upgrade", I don't really see how any solid decision could be made re: integrating other avionics etc,
    if the exact fit and capabilities of standard Russian MiG-35 (Mk. III?) could not even be known exactly...

    as i said before i was wrong .. the radar will be russian (i only hope it is aesa and better than the one was shown in aero india .. although russian said clearly that the first batch of mig-35 will be equipped with zhuk-me)
    but some other avionics will be italian
    and for me not going for italian radar like some other avionics that means that the russian one will be better
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    Post  Book. on Sat May 30, 2015 8:59 pm

    Mig 35 new body big like Su 27

    Italy radar no good. Nato can jam
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    Post  house200888 on Sat May 30, 2015 9:16 pm

    No I didn't.

    I said they should get the MiG-29m2 and I gave reasons for that... it would be ready much faster, would be much much cheaper and with proven components rather than brand new expensive and untested in combat systems.

    it is not important what u said or what i said ..the only important thing is that the official announcement will state that it is mig-35

    Modernising generally involves upgrades of existing types rather than the introduction of brand new systems. I rather suspect what he is talking about... especially in terms of local production would be T-90s rather than Armata.

    Just my opinion.

    1- he also said " UVZ aims to establish a military equipment factory in Egypt"

    2- we already produce more than 80% of m1a1 tank in egypt since 1992 .. so we have Infrastructure for building tanks . but it will need big changes to be able to produce t-90sm instead of m1a1 .

    3- read that link :
    http://ria.ru/interview/20150526/1066626687.html

    "We, of course, at a meeting with the president and the defense minister yesterday touched on topics related to military-technical cooperation.

    Egypt - our traditional partner in the field of military-technical cooperation. Today, we see the prospects of concluding additional contracts beyond those currently performed. This aircraft and helicopters, and land equipment, anti-aircraft missiles.

    As this sensitive area, we will not cover all the details, but I can say that an impressive portfolio of orders. We are today with Egypt providing a constant dynamic development of this area. Egypt is among the five largest buyers of MTC."

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    Post  house200888 on Sat May 30, 2015 9:32 pm

    Going with the Italian radar will result in the same as the Zhuk radars. It will be underpowered and would be an expensive waste. Unless it comes with a new generator/APU unit that can help power it.

    as i said before i was wrong .. the radar will be russian (i only hope it is aesa and better than the one was shown in aero india .. although russian said clearly that the first batch of mig-35 will be equipped with zhuk-me)
    but some other avionics will be italian
    and for me not going for italian radar like some other avionics that means that the russian one will be better

    The problem is House was pointing that it was the aesa that was the issue, but I pointed out they use same T/R modules as ehat NIIP uses for their N036 radar and with having roughly 1500 t/r modules, it give pretty much exactly same performance of other aesa radars with same number of modules. Then, the ceo of kret in one of the articles from 2009 stated that the t/r modules are rated to run at 5W each but are only running at 3 - 3.5. That gives the indication that the engines are either incapable of powering whatever apu the MiG's use, or it is the APU'd thenselves. Which any other AESA will have same issue.

    i will tell u again that if u said that before aero india 2015 i would agree with u 100%

    but now i saw by my own eyes that what the russians promised in 2009 about that radar with a range of nearly 250km was not true in 2015 . and i also saw the russians declare that the first batch of 30 mig-35 will not be equipped with aesa radar

    u r relying on information from 2009 while i am relying on information from 2015 .. i hope u r right simply because we r getting that fighter .. but unfortunately the facts r clear .. there r problems in the russian aesa program for the mig .. and if u have any solid recent sources that say otherwise i would be really happy to be considered wrong
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    Post  sepheronx on Sat May 30, 2015 9:56 pm

    house200888 wrote:
    Going with the Italian radar will result in the same as the Zhuk radars. It will be underpowered and would be an expensive waste. Unless it comes with a new generator/APU unit that can help power it.

    as i said before i was wrong .. the radar will be russian (i only hope it is aesa and better than the one was shown in aero india .. although russian said clearly that the first batch of mig-35 will be equipped with zhuk-me)
    but some other avionics will be italian
    and for me not going for italian radar like some other avionics that means that the russian one will be better

    The problem is House was pointing that it was the aesa that was the issue, but I pointed out they use same T/R modules as ehat NIIP uses for their N036 radar and with having roughly 1500 t/r modules, it give pretty much exactly same performance of other aesa radars with same number of modules. Then, the ceo of kret in one of the articles from 2009 stated that the t/r modules are rated to run at 5W each but are only running at 3 - 3.5. That gives the indication that the engines are either incapable of powering whatever apu the MiG's use, or it is the APU'd thenselves. Which any other AESA will have same issue.

    i will tell u again that if u said that before aero india 2015 i would agree with u 100%

    but now i saw by my own eyes that what the russians promised in 2009 about that radar with a range of nearly 250km was not true in 2015 . and i also saw the russians declare that the first batch of 30 mig-35 will not be equipped with aesa radar

    u r relying on information from 2009 while i am relying on information from 2015 .. i hope u r right simply because we r getting that fighter .. but unfortunately the facts r clear .. there r problems in the russian aesa program for the mig .. and if u have any solid recent sources that say otherwise i would be really happy to be considered wrong

    You don't know how it works then.

    The issue clearly stated lack of power from the T/R modules.  Also, there is 1 company in russia that makes T/R Modules.  So if it is a problem with their AESA, then how come NIIP has no problems with their AESA radar if they are using the EXACT SAME MODULES?  Do you understand?  It comes down to lack of power being produced for these T/R Modules.  What is the common theme amongst the AESA radar and the MiG jets? The engines and APU. Look, N036 uses 1500 T/R Modules and has a range of 400km.  The apparent one for Typhoon aircrafts have similar performance for similar T/R Modules.  That would mean that each of their modules are operating at specific power.

    You can deny it all you want, but you are wrong.  Sorry. You talk crap about it being official statement from KRET on performance in a sheet, but once the actual person from KRET actually states something, you deny it? You are full of shit.
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    Post  mack8 on Sat May 30, 2015 9:59 pm

    Chill out pal, no reason to go ballistic over something like this.
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    Post  sepheronx on Sat May 30, 2015 10:05 pm

    mack8 wrote:Chill out pal, no reason to go ballistic over something like this.

    His reasoning is crap, and I am sick of having to point it out to him and he states: "Nope, a paper said else".  Sorry, but that isn't how it works, especially if an OFFICIAL from KRET said something.  Doesn't matter if it is 2009 to now, or if it was 1985 to now.  If the engines are the EXACT SAME, then power output will be the same, regardless of the amount of T/R Modules or not.  Anyone with common sense will know that.

    All one has to do, is look at the performances of Irbis-E and These and N036.  N036 is the same size as Irbis E, sporting 1,500 T/R Modules and has similar detection ranges as Irbis-E as it produces the SAME EXACT amount of power to its radar (15-20KW).  How many KW are actually sent from a MiG engines to APU to Radar?  Not even close to the same amount.  He expects that the Italian radar would operate different.  No.  Unless those T/R Modules are meant to operate at full capacity of between 3 - 3.5W, it will end up with the exact same performance.  Physics is the same, but this Egyptian thinks physics applies different elsewhere.  Only NIIP produces the T/R Modules.  Phazotron (KRET) gets it from them for their radars from my understanding.  So the performance would be roughly the same.  Yet it isn't.  So that tells me that what the KRET official stated is absolutely true and not what a god damn paper said.  Power is the problem, lack of it will make the radar perform half of its true capabilities.  Which makes perfect sense based upon what he said.  If the aircraft is providing half of the power to the radar than needed, roughly half of its performance is not being used, thus mathematically, what he said about the 600 T/R Modules, about 130km vs the 250km statement, then that makes absolute sense (Not half the power being used, but close enough of 3 - 3.5W vs 5W).

    Only way it can ever be different is the T/R modules are GaAS or GaN, and if they are using standard methods or using Photons.  Since KRET and Rostec are moving towards Photons, they will be the FIRST in the field to use it.

    Edit: And sorry, it isn't NIIP that makes the T/R Modules but NPP Istok that makes them.

    http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Flanker-Radars.html#mozTocId533477
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    Post  mutantsushi on Sun May 31, 2015 12:01 am

    IMHO, when it is said "power is the problem", that could pertain to waste heat generated by running at full power, and the cooling system needed to deal with that. not really sure though... in any case, i suspect the final Russian version will be worth the wait on several counts. Egypt could induct early version, but since they already are inducting Rafales in the same time period, that doesn't seem particularly necessary, and would be an extra burden to induct multiple new systems simultaneously. Inducting different platforms of basically the exact same tier/niche still seems pretty crazy, even if there may be certain sense in not putting all eggs in one basket re: suppliers (although worries about Russia refusing to supply seem far-fetched, FR possibly but that isn't RU's M.O.).

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