RUSSIA - INDIA Military Contracts

mnztr wrote:

magnumcromagnon wrote:
Have no idea, however I see the salty Escar-Gauls have contractional bindings/stipulations for breaking the contract. If I remember correctly the French-ticklers broke the Mistral contract, maybe Russia could be brought in to threaten to resume suing French-ticklers for not delivering the Mistrals. Even if they've been (woefully) compensated and arbitration courts throw out the Russian lawsuit, India can open a corruption lawsuit within India suing France, in which they could swiftly slap a 25 or 50 year ban on France from entering the Indian market if they don't cooperate.

You have noo idea how well Russia did on getting out of the Mistral deal. The compensation was great they got  TON of IP and the US paid for the whole thing...AND they US paid for the ships to be given to the Egyptians. All in the name of being tough on Russia. Now they are building Russian Mistrals...

The idea the Mistrals were bad, but their IP is good is terrible contradictory logic. It can't be both! I remember clowns saying that Russia's will be getting the IP for a lifting platform mechanism from Mistral....like what? The country (Russia) that made/produced Buran, Mir, and The International Space Station desperately needs Mistral's naval technology IP (for a boat that cant tolerate Arctic conditions and has a poor armament) lmao?!?!  Had the Russian's went through with the lawsuit they could of gotten something like $10 billion USD in compensation, now covert that to Rubles and Russia could of regiment/brigades' worth of military vehicles of domestic origin.

The idea the Mistrals were bad, but their IP is good is terrible contradictory logic.

They weren't bad and Russia would have gotten good use out of them... it is just they were designed for France and the west and not for Russia or Russian conditions or Russian expectations. Weak armament and single propulsion system with no redundancy... and not really optimised for arctic operations or Kamov type helicopters and I suspect the armour storage is optimised for French armour and not Russian armour etc etc.

Had the Russian's went through with the lawsuit they could of gotten something like $10 billion USD in compensation, now covert that to Rubles and Russia could of regiment/brigades' worth of military vehicles of domestic origin.

Not in a European court... a European court probably would have found the Russians libel because Frances economy hasn't been going great lately and they could do with some more money... like they did with gas contracts and the Ukraine...

medo wrote: India have to buy 6 new Airbus A330MRTT for Rafales.

When it comes to topics related to India you transcended hypocrisy to get into hilarity.  When facts are imagined, hindsight too is imagined at an exponential level.

This video clearly proves IL-78 has been used to refuel the Rafale.


https://twitter.com/IAF_MCC/status/1149999886131257344?s=20

magnumcromagnon wrote:

The idea the Mistrals were bad, but their IP is good is terrible contradictory logic. It can't be both! I remember clowns saying that Russia's will be getting the IP for a lifting platform mechanism from Mistral....like what? The country (Russia) that made/produced Buran, Mir, and The International Space Station desperately needs Mistral's naval technology IP (for a boat that cant tolerate Arctic conditions and has a poor armament) lmao?!?!  Had the Russian's went through with the lawsuit they could of gotten something like $10 billion USD in compensation, now covert that to Rubles and Russia could of regiment/brigades' worth of military vehicles of domestic origin.

Who said the Mistrals were bad? They are state of the art ships in their class built with the lastest technology and methods. Its design and construction methods using mega block construction that Russia lacked. They acquired this by building some sections of the Mistral. The benefit of this is you don't have your massive drydock tied up endlessly and you can scale up production much faster with higher quality. Also Russia got the codebase for the battle management system as they had to integrate their weapons to it.

medo wrote:
India have to buy 6 new Airbus A330MRTT for Rafales.

There are a lot of good reasons for India to buy the A330 MRTT, its really an incredible plane that can move troops, freight and refuel. Its IMHO the best tanker solution on the market today. The Indian Air Force can even charter the plane for passanger when not in service like the UK does.

Wow the Rafale deal has aged like milk, and is looking worse and worse by the day!

In India: For the purchase of the S-400, the US can "force" France to restrict the supply of weapons for the Rafale fighters

India has Apaches, Chinooks and P8 Posidens as well.

After more than 30 years of development, Tejas is dead.

Not true: Speaking on the Tejas Mk-II, an official said that it will be a medium-weight fighter (MWF) and that its design is ready. The current Tejas has a maximum takeoff weight of 13.5 tonnes while the MWF is in the next class and is targeted to have a maximum takeoff weight of around 17.5 tonnes. The Indian Air Force will be ordering these aircraft in large numbers to meet its requirements. The first flight of the Mk-II will happen in 2022 and will take another 5-6 years to get into production. By that time, the Mirage-2000 fighters will complete their lifespan and the LCA Mk-II should get into production. And to fill the gap in the IAF's combat fleet, Tejas is expected to play an important role in the medium category. On September 13, 2019, the naval version of Tejas LCA achieved a successful "arrested landing" at the shore-based Test Facility of INS Hansa in Goa, achieved a milestone.
Indian Navy had hailed this day as a "golden letter day" in its history—even after it first rejected the naval version of LCA. Eventually in January last year, LCA Navy made a maiden take off from INS Vikramaditya. https://www.theweek.in/news/india/2021/01/05/20-years-since-lca-tejass-first-flight-whats-next-for-indias-indigenous-fighter-programme.html

https://youtu.be/BdZNZmDGLqI?t=21

https://swarajyamag.com/insta/bolstering-the-iaf-deal-for-83-lca-tejas-mark-1a-jets-56-medium-transport-aircraft-to-be-signed-soon

With US sanctions, Tejas will be without engine, radar, avionics, catapult seat, etc. With other words dead. If India want to replace all that with Russian ones, they will need more than ten years to redesign it and test it. MiG-21 Bison will have to serve for another decade.

Its gonna be interesting to see if the US dares to sanction India, but I think just the existance of CAATSA pretty much disqualifies western players in the Indian fighter tender.

India isn't Turkey, Iran or Pakistan; if too many heavy sanctions r slapped on her, she may cancel F-18E/F lease & other deals.

Tsavo Lion wrote:India isn't Turkey, Iran or Pakistan; if too many heavy sanctions r slapped on her, she may cancel F-18E/F lease & other deals.

US and Indian 'good' relations are only a recent phenomenon (of convenience), US has already sanctioned both Modi as well as India as a whole before, they armed Pakistan for decades, and even threatened to bomb and invade India with Task Force 74 and the 7th fleet, to help Pakistan in the 1960's.

medo wrote:With US sanctions, Tejas will be without engine, radar, avionics, catapult seat, etc..

they'll/may have their own avionics & engine- better late than never!
If not, Russia could supply them suitable engines.

Tsavo Lion wrote:India isn't Turkey, Iran or Pakistan; if too many heavy sanctions r slapped on her, she may cancel F-18E/F lease & other deals.

India is not leasing F18s yet nor has it contracted any.

true, but if the US persists with sanctioning India, it may never lease them out.
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/magazines/panache/should-iaf-invest-15-bn-in-buying-the-f/a-18-super-hornet/articleshow/70355847.cms?from=mdr

India has Apaches, Chinooks and P8 Posidens as well.

Yeah, but it makes more sense to sabotage the French sale of fighters than risk making their own aircraft look bad, so sanction weapons for the French plane as leverage to see if that works... and if not then escalate till you hit the right button...

Obviously the ultimate goal would be to get India out of BRICS and buying Patriot and THAADS for air defence against China... and probably about 500-1000 F-35s too maybe...

true, but if the US persists with sanctioning India,

Jesus... 15 billion to lease some F-18s... you didn't say it was 15 billion to LEASE some Hornets... good god man... that is ridiculous... they could probably buy outright a couple of hundred MiG-35s for that and would own them and not have to hand them back.

I thought the French were being shifty with 8.4 billion for 36 Rafales, but America is openly trying to rob them... at least the Rafale is a relatively modern fighter...

15 billion... with a unit price of 40 millions they could buy 375 mig-35.

They can even buy 2 carrier and fill them with fighters.

Indians are more than stupid.

Why don't they just give me 1 or 2 million ?

No, the initial leasing is by the navy; the IAF may get those made in India: Depending on the number of machines ordered by both the Navy and the IAF, Boeing will set up a completely new production facility in India for the production of its F/A-18 Super Hornets with the aim that the new facility can be used for other programs like India’s Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) program.
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/magazines/panache/should-iaf-invest-15-bn-in-buying-the-f/a-18-super-hornet/articleshow/70355847.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

GarryB wrote:Jesus... 15 billion to lease some F-18s... you didn't say it was 15 billion to LEASE some Hornets... good god man... that is ridiculous... they could probably buy outright a couple of hundred MiG-35s for that and would own them and not have to hand them back.

India is neither purchasing nor leasing any F-18. U.S is building up pressure as usual. India does not have US$ 15 billion to splurge on F-18s.

Why don't they just give me 1 or 2 million ?

Yeah, just because they have money to burn, it does not mean they should actually burn the stuff...

India is neither purchasing nor leasing any F-18. U.S is building up pressure as usual. India does not have US$ 15 billion to splurge on F-18s.

2.4 billion was too much for a converted CV and 14 MiG-29KRs and Helix helicopters, yet 8.4 billion was acceptable for 36 fighter aircraft... India is very hard to read without seeing the balances of certain swiss bank accounts...

For half that cash you will get double the number of planes which Ruskies will stuff with more tech than Su-35 and will throw in lifetime of spare parts and ordinance on top

Not only that... they would probably let the Indians make the MiGs and they could have commonality with Air Force and Navy models... and that would probably buy them in to potential for a joint development project with the LMFS fighter MiG will be wanting to work on and use to upgrade their MiG-35s...

Hell even Egypt might want to join and contribute to the programme too...

PapaDragon wrote:Dude just get MiGs

Already purchasing. Twenty One (21) Mig 29s will arrive from Russia shortly apart from 12 brand new SU 30MKIs.
https://www.businesstoday.in/current/economy-politics/indian-air-force-plans-to-buy-12-sukhoi-21-mig-29s-amid-india-china-standoff/story/407350.html

PapaDragon wrote:For half that cash you will get double the number of planes

India doesn't have US$ 15 billion to procure F-18s. In any case F 18 production is being stopped in the US itself. US probably wants to keep production lines open and so they are forcing India to procure it. There is a bigger possibility that more Rafales will be procured.

PapaDragon wrote: which Ruskies will stuff with more tech than Su-35 and will throw in lifetime of spare parts and ordinance on top

So far Russia has not offered any major upgrade for the Mig 29 from technologies that (as you said) that have already matured on the Su 35 or even Su 57. MRO, is one area where Russia has struggled, big time in India. Do they struggle with MRO in other countries where they export their wares... I do not know.

This lack of proper MRO is what allowed US to enter the Indian defense market.

Since India is already showing interest in leasing weapons from foreign countries, and to match US offer, I feel Russia can make an offer to lease their Mig-35 and Su 35 to India. Indian pilots already fly the Mig 29 and Su 30MKI, so they won't have to spend a bomb to get trained on the Mig 35 or Su 35.

Sujoy wrote:So far Russia has not offered any major upgrade for the Mig 29 from technologies that (as you said) that have already matured on the Su 35 or even Su 57.  MRO, is one area where Russia has struggled, big time in India. Do they struggle with MRO in other countries where they export their wares... I do not know.

This lack of proper MRO is what allowed US to enter the Indian defense market.

Since India is already showing interest in leasing weapons from foreign countries, and to match US offer, I feel Russia can make an offer to lease their Mig-35 and Su 35 to India. Indian pilots already fly the Mig 29 and Su 30MKI, so they won't have to spend a bomb to get trained on the Mig 35 or Su 35.  

Cut it out! Indian built Russian jets crash at much higher rates than the Russian built jets despite flying in a much harsher sub-Arctic/Arctic climate because you guys refused their quality control doctrine. The MiG-35 offered the Zhuk-ME AESA as well as 3D vector engine nozzles, and probably could of been used to upgrade the MiG-29 fleet, but instead the notoriously corrupt weapon procurement process in India got you a stillborn Rafale deal that still requires separate tanker aircraft lmao! Even now pathetic corrupt Indian officials who say it's dangerous not to diversify their weapon supplies from Russia, are in danger of having their weapon supplies endangered regardless...